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1 minute ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

Voted Tory all my life, but the thought of Boris being PM is utterly depressing.

 

If wee Jimmy krankie and her band of torn faced whingers quit the moaning and start offering something credible and positive, then they might actually be successful.

You've not been paying attention to events in Scotland

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Yep.    No tax cuts + funding stuff = Tory dread.

 

thats the idealism,  the reality is that they all end up spending more than the last incumbents

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9 minutes ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

Such as?

 

The SNP propose remaining in the EU.    This is both "credible" and "positive" ( in regard to being the opposite of negative in the context of Brexit economic damage ).    

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Ricardo Shillyshally
Just now, Victorian said:

 

The SNP propose remaining in the EU.    This is both "credible" and "positive" ( in regard to being the opposite of negative in the context of Brexit economic damage ).    

That's an aspiration, not a plan. 

 

You won't like this, but if the SNP are to be successful thy need to convert people like me from NO to YES. I'm open to be convinced but nowhere near it as yet.  

 

We stumbled into Brexit without a solid plan and its been a mess. I don't see why we should do the same with independence and expect everything to be ok.  

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

That's an aspiration, not a plan. 

 

You won't like this, but if the SNP are to be successful thy need to convert people like me from NO to YES. I'm open to be convinced but nowhere near it as yet.  

 

We stumbled into Brexit without a solid plan and its been a mess. I don't see why we should do the same with independence and expect everything to be ok.  

 

 

 

No.   It's a plan.    To campaign for another referendum and to use it to campaign for remain.

 

A pretty clear plan.

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Ricardo Shillyshally
Just now, Victorian said:

 

No.   It's a plan.    To campaign for another referendum and to use it to campaign for remain.

 

A pretty clear plan.

Sadly that's the type of "i'm right you're wrong" type of response that comes along in these threads.

 

Until the YES movement start listening and stop telling they will struggle to convince potential converts like me.

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2 minutes ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

Sadly that's the type of "i'm right you're wrong" type of response that comes along in these threads.

 

Until the YES movement start listening and stop telling they will struggle to convince potential converts like me.

 

Erm... am I just supposed to accept you're right?     I'm talking about Brexit.   You seem to be on a tangent of Scottish independence.

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Ricardo Shillyshally
Just now, Victorian said:

 

Erm... am I just supposed to accept you're right?     I'm talking about Brexit.   You seem to be on a tangent of Scottish independence.

And thus, my point is proved once again. ?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

And thus, my point is proved once again. ?

 

 

 

What point?    Your point seems to be it's not valid for the other person to argue their own point.     A bit odd but ok.

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Ricardo Shillyshally
3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

What point?    Your point seems to be it's not valid for the other person to argue their own point.     A bit odd but ok.

My point is that too many in the YES movement just don't listen to people like me. Im open to be convinced. Telling me that the SNPs "pretty clear" plan is to campaign for a referendum and stay in the EU isn't convincing. It's what they want, but scarcely a "plan". There is little substance to that, not least of which is the currency issue of an independent Scotland.

 

If  I'm wrong then the YES movement needs to try harder to convince me.  It's people like me - those in the 55% - that could help deliver independence. Boris getting into No10 will help the independence cause but it may not be enough on its own.

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1 minute ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

My point is that too many in the YES movement just don't listen to people like me. Im open to be convinced. Telling me that the SNPs "pretty clear" plan is to campaign for a referendum and stay in the EU isn't convincing. It's what they want, but scarcely a "plan". There is little substance to that, not least of which is the currency issue of an independent Scotland.

 

If  I'm wrong then the YES movement needs to try harder to convince me.  It's people like me - those in the 55% - that could help deliver independence. Boris getting into No10 will help the independence cause but it may not be enough on its own.

 

You're talking about independence.    I was talking about the SNP's plan re Brexit ( the reversal of ).     I'm not interested in the independence issue in this context.   

 

 

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jack D and coke
12 minutes ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

My point is that too many in the YES movement just don't listen to people like me. Im open to be convinced. Telling me that the SNPs "pretty clear" plan is to campaign for a referendum and stay in the EU isn't convincing. It's what they want, but scarcely a "plan". There is little substance to that, not least of which is the currency issue of an independent Scotland.

 

If  I'm wrong then the YES movement needs to try harder to convince me.  It's people like me - those in the 55% - that could help deliver independence. Boris getting into No10 will help the independence cause but it may not be enough on its own.

I agree mate but it’s the same in reverse too. People have become so polarised about both referendums. 

The best way is to look yourself I don’t think many people have the maturity to debate properly about either. It’s I’m right and you’re wrong. 

Im guilty myself.  

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AlphonseCapone
17 minutes ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

My point is that too many in the YES movement just don't listen to people like me. Im open to be convinced. Telling me that the SNPs "pretty clear" plan is to campaign for a referendum and stay in the EU isn't convincing. It's what they want, but scarcely a "plan". There is little substance to that, not least of which is the currency issue of an independent Scotland.

 

If  I'm wrong then the YES movement needs to try harder to convince me.  It's people like me - those in the 55% - that could help deliver independence. Boris getting into No10 will help the independence cause but it may not be enough on its own.

 

What's your thoughts on the most recent development with the currency issue? Use the sterling until a Scottish currency can be adopted. That's a similar approach taken by other countries. 

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Ricardo Shillyshally
46 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

What's your thoughts on the most recent development with the currency issue? Use the sterling until a Scottish currency can be adopted. That's a similar approach taken by other countries. 

My only prejudice is what will make life better than it is just now. 

 

Any change of currency would either be forced or change for the sake of change. I don't see how having a different currency to our next door neighbours will make life better, but I'm open to be convinced.  I'm not an economist, just a Joe Soap voter.

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Ricardo Shillyshally
58 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I agree mate but it’s the same in reverse too. People have become so polarised about both referendums. 

The best way is to look yourself I don’t think many people have the maturity to debate properly about either. It’s I’m right and you’re wrong. 

Im guilty myself.  

Couldn't agree more. Scotland has become a poorer place for it sadly.

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2 hours ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

My point is that too many in the YES movement just don't listen to people like me. Im open to be convinced. Telling me that the SNPs "pretty clear" plan is to campaign for a referendum and stay in the EU isn't convincing. It's what they want, but scarcely a "plan". There is little substance to that, not least of which is the currency issue of an independent Scotland.

 

If  I'm wrong then the YES movement needs to try harder to convince me.  It's people like me - those in the 55% - that could help deliver independence. Boris getting into No10 will help the independence cause but it may not be enough on its own.

 

I'm 40 years old mum and I'm not moving out your basement till you convince me it's the right thing to do. 

 

Can I have spaghetti hoops on my toast please... 

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3 hours ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

That's an aspiration, not a plan. 

 

You won't like this, but if the SNP are to be successful thy need to convert people like me from NO to YES. I'm open to be convinced but nowhere near it as yet.  

 

We stumbled into Brexit without a solid plan and its been a mess. I don't see why we should do the same with independence and expect everything to be ok.  

 

 

Like you are open minded about the snp???

 

 

If wee Jimmy krankie and her band of torn faced whingers quit the moaning and start offering something credible and positive, then they might actually be successful.

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Ricardo Shillyshally
6 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Like you are open minded about the snp???

 

 

If wee Jimmy krankie and her band of torn faced whingers quit the moaning and start offering something credible and positive, then they might actually be successful.

I'm becoming more open minded about independence.

 

The SNP will need to stop moaning about stuff and start presenting real positives before I warm to them. They are more likely to win with a smile than a scowl. The vitriol aimed at their opposition may appeal to a certain type of independence voter, but not to me.

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22 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Like you are open minded about the snp???

 

 

If wee Jimmy krankie and her band of torn faced whingers quit the moaning and start offering something credible and positive, then they might actually be successful.

There’s plenty folk voted ‘yes’ who don’t vote SNP and there’s plenty (though I guess fewer) who vote SNP who voted ‘no’.

Look at all these seats in the NE - Aberdeenshire / Angus / Moray / Perth that flit between Tory & the SNP.

I’ve never voted SNP in my life (yet) but I voted ‘yes’.

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CloustonHMFC
4 hours ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

I'm becoming more open minded about independence.

 

The SNP will need to stop moaning about stuff and start presenting real positives before I warm to them. They are more likely to win with a smile than a scowl. The vitriol aimed at their opposition may appeal to a certain type of independence voter, but not to me.

At this present the focus is on Brexit and the SNP aren’t moaning, they’ve been trying to either provide alternative plans for successfully leaving the EU or to campaign for another referendum, for the moment talk of a second independence referendum is a back up for when the elected government of Scotland is ignored once more after doing all they can.

 

When it comes to crunch time and there truly is a debate over Scotland leaving the UK and taking it’s place at the EU table or remaining within a No Deal Brexit UK lead by Boris, that is the time to devise a fully fledged plan for leaving the UK and the time to win over potential converts. The way things are playing out at present with Brexit is already converting some absolute No’s to potential Yes and that is the long game that is being played.

 

Bide your time and you will get all the answers you need, for now though, there is a bigger task at hand.

Edited by clouston1992
Typo
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8 hours ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

That's an aspiration, not a plan. 

 

You won't like this, but if the SNP are to be successful thy need to convert people like me from NO to YES. I'm open to be convinced but nowhere near it as yet.  

 

We stumbled into Brexit without a solid plan and its been a mess. I don't see why we should do the same with independence and expect everything to be ok.  

 

 

Just a thought. It's Independence you're voting for, not the SNP.  You never know, The Scottish Conservative Party could be elected, post independence. 

Edited by ri Alban
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jack D and coke
2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Just a thought. It's Independence you're voting for, not the SNP.  You never know, The Scottish Conservative Party could be elected, post independence. 

I believe Scotland would end up voting a conservative type government. Until that absolute arsehole Davidson I liked their previous leaders. David McCletchie or Annabel Goldie are exactly the types I’d be inclined to vote for but not with the the likes of Boris’ hand up their back.  

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11 hours ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

My point is that too many in the YES movement just don't listen to people like me. Im open to be convinced. Telling me that the SNPs "pretty clear" plan is to campaign for a referendum and stay in the EU isn't convincing. It's what they want, but scarcely a "plan". There is little substance to that, not least of which is the currency issue of an independent Scotland.

 

If  I'm wrong then the YES movement needs to try harder to convince me.  It's people like me - those in the 55% - that could help deliver independence. Boris getting into No10 will help the independence cause but it may not be enough on its own.

 

I'd imagine the 200k EU nationals living in Scotland might see things slightly differently now, given they were essentially threatened with deportation last time.

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The Real Maroonblood
33 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I believe Scotland would end up voting a conservative type government. Until that absolute arsehole Davidson I liked their previous leaders. David McCletchie or Annabel Goldie are exactly the types I’d be inclined to vote for but not with the the likes of Boris’ hand up their back.  

Although I’ve never voted Tory I did have a lot of respect for David McCletchie  and Annabelle Goldie as politicians..

 

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37 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I believe Scotland would end up voting a conservative type government. Until that absolute arsehole Davidson I liked their previous leaders. David McCletchie or Annabel Goldie are exactly the types I’d be inclined to vote for but not with the the likes of Boris’ hand up their back.  

The difference being we can vote them out. As it stands we can't.

Edited by ri Alban
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12 hours ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

 

If wee Jimmy krankie and her band of torn faced whingers quit the moaning and start offering something credible and positive, then they might actually be successful

Jimmy Krankie. 

 

Cringe 

Edited by Sarah O
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1 hour ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Although I’ve never voted Tory I did have a lot of respect for David McCletchie  and Annabelle Goldie as politicians..

 

 

I knew both (even sat next to Annabelle at at wedding reception) and although I've never voted Tory in my life, they were both very decent people as well as good politicians.

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12 hours ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

My only prejudice is what will make life better than it is just now. 

 

Any change of currency would either be forced or change for the sake of change. I don't see how having a different currency to our next door neighbours will make life better, but I'm open to be convinced.  I'm not an economist, just a Joe Soap voter.

 

So you were an advocate of adopting the Euro back in the day?

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Norway have brought in over £40b in tax since the drop in oil price. The UK? Well... hasn't. Whilst producing more oil.

Plus they've generated half a trillion more in tax in the last 50 years, while, again, producing less oil.

Shameful!

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jack D and coke
3 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Norway have brought in over £40b in tax since the drop in oil price. The UK? Well... hasn't. Whilst producing more oil.

Plus they've generated half a trillion more in tax in the last 50 years, while, again, producing less oil.

Shameful!

It has it’s just gets registered elsewhere doesn’t it? 

I read the other day EDF the French energy company have been buying up our wind farms too. 

We gonna give that away an all?

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3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

It has it’s just gets registered elsewhere doesn’t it? 

I read the other day EDF the French energy company have been buying up our wind farms too. 

We gonna give that away an all?

We need to nationalise assets that benefit everyone.  Not just Boris and his mates.

 

Oh, and the wind is running oot, apparently. :sarcasm:

Edited by ri Alban
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15 hours ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

Couldn't agree more. Scotland has become a poorer place for it sadly.

Although some of the things you say I find myself agreeing with, that statement isn't one of them.

 

I believe Scotland is the most politically engaged country in the UK and it's all the better for it. 

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1 minute ago, Barack said:

Bojo 157

Hunt 59

Gove 61

Javid 34

 

Javid out. 

 

Ruth backs a winner again... :rofl:

 

Regardless of his competency, could you imagine the Tory Party voting for a muslim as their leader?

 

Gove overtaking Hunt is interesting.  Love how Hunt is known to some as Theresa in trousers, or TiT, for short.

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6 minutes ago, Barack said:

Bojo 157

Hunt 59

Gove 61

Javid 34

 

Javid out. 

Both depressing and good news. Javid is a complete lady kebab but the other 3 are worse. No silver lining at all!

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1 minute ago, Barack said:

Assume people are now hoping Gove does another knifing on Boris, and the Party Membership actually take on board the scenario that is looking even more likely, and divert it.

 

Those left aren't exactly stellar, but it'll be interesting to see what their membership thinks of Boris, rather than the cheerleaders.

 

If BJ is in the last two, which appears a stick on, I reckon he'd win.  There is enough hype about him for folk to buy him as a serious candidate.  It's completely mental.  A bit like Trump, in a way.

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57 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

If BJ is in the last two, which appears a stick on, I reckon he'd win.  There is enough hype about him for folk to buy him as a serious candidate.  It's completely mental.  A bit like Trump, in a way.

The world will be rubbing their hands, with a balloon like Boris as PM . Trump especially. 

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I P Knightley
4 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Both depressing and good news. Javid is a complete lady kebab but the other 3 are worse. No silver lining at all!

This phrase is new on me. I hope to use it frequently as this shitshow pans out.

 

4 hours ago, Boris said:

 

If BJ is in the last two, which appears a stick on, I reckon he'd win.  There is enough hype about him for folk to buy him as a serious candidate.  It's completely mental.  A bit like Trump, in a way.

I wrote something similar in the last couple of days. The US has had two colossal buffoons in the White House during my adult life. The first was Reagan but he was enough of an innocent buffoon that he was surrounded by people who knew what they were doing and, by and large, kept a steady hand on the tiller. Trump is a vain and arrogant buffoon and a bully; he's dangerous and appoints people who are suitably weak-minded (more so than him) who will go along with all his mental ramblings.

 

I fear that Johnson will be more of a Trump than a Reagan. The folk who stood against him are likely to spend some time in the wilderness unless they spend the next few weeks buffing his ring; we'll have a cabinet with that twat Rees-Mogg and others too dreadful to think about. Just a bunch of feeble-minded toadies who'll try to convince us that Boris is doing a great job. We won't see Roddy Stewart near the high table after his 'treasonous' level-headed challenging of Johnson & Co.

 

Christ, it's depressing!

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1 minute ago, graygo said:

So Bojo gets a few of his supporters to vote for Hunt to knock out Gove.

 

Politics is a dirty dirty business.

Couldnt have a Scotsman in number 10

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1 minute ago, graygo said:

So Bojo gets a few of his supporters to vote for Hunt to knock out Gove.

 

Politics is a dirty dirty business.

 

If that is true. No one can prove it either way. 

You are right politics especially in this country just now stinks.

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BBC news having a wee trip on a train with some “local” tories. A couple of middle aged women but in the main, wealthy looking aged white corduroy wearing men with massive nose hairs. You know the type!

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