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Referee steps down for bigoted posts


Spellczech

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Until they widen the net from Glasgow and Lanark, nothing will change.

 

3 Edinburgh refs in Scottish Cup final history.

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1 minute ago, TheBigO said:

Until they widen the net from Glasgow and Lanark, nothing will change.

 

3 Edinburgh refs in Scottish Cup final history.

It is just incredible that the SFA knew anout this in 2014, a panel let him off and the SFA thought they could still advance him to Category 1 status ...? Just how stupid are these people?

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Again. Foreign referees are the best strategy to remove this. 

 

I'm not just saying this for Scotland, I think it should be an association led initiative by UEFA. There needs to be a uniform standard of refereeing, from Sweden to Italy. To my mind, the best way of doing that is to professionalise all referees and centralise a UEFA refereeing body, to which every referee must be registered to. They are professionals at this point and not employed by any footballing association. UEFA assigns referees to countries for a set period of time (e.g. 1 season and then they're moved again) to avoid bias they cannot be assigned their country of birth. 

 

It could be paid for by ring fencing 1% of every UEFA nations TV deal (not that those ****ers don't have enough money as is). I realise some of that infrastructure already exists, but to me it seems the best strategy for taking refereeing standards out of the hands of FA's which are clearly not doing a good enough job. Not only that but it creates a consistent standard to which games are refereed to - Diving is prevalent in southern European countries, less so in Scandinavia, stands to reason that Norwegian refs in Spain are going to be a lot tougher on diving and will help to reach an equilibrium in standards as likewise, dangerous tackles will be hammered by Spanish refs in Scotland etc. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, OTT said:

Again. Foreign referees are the best strategy to remove this. 

 

I'm not just saying this for Scotland, I think it should be an association led initiative by UEFA. There needs to be a uniform standard of refereeing, from Sweden to Italy. To my mind, the best way of doing that is to professionalise all referees and centralise a UEFA refereeing body, to which every referee must be registered to. They are professionals at this point and not employed by any footballing association. UEFA assigns referees to countries for a set period of time (e.g. 1 season and then they're moved again) to avoid bias they cannot be assigned their country of birth. 

 

It could be paid for by ring fencing 1% of every UEFA nations TV deal (not that those ****ers don't have enough money as is). I realise some of that infrastructure already exists, but to me it seems the best strategy for taking refereeing standards out of the hands of FA's which are clearly not doing a good enough job. Not only that but it creates a consistent standard to which games are refereed to - Diving is prevalent in southern European countries, less so in Scandinavia, stands to reason that Norwegian refs in Spain are going to be a lot tougher on diving and will help to reach an equilibrium in standards as likewise, dangerous tackles will be hammered by Spanish refs in Scotland etc. 

 

 

:spoton:

 

There is far too much money at stake in Football these days for us to be relying on semi-professional biased buffoons to ref the game.

 

 

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I'm not sure about the foreign ref argument. Refs are just as bad in other countries!

 

The unique(ish) situ we have is a small nation with two teams sharing the majority of supporters and power, but also with deep social and religious divide.

 

So not only do we have refs under pressure from these super powers, like in other countries, but refs who are actually within their circles.

 

And an association who support that setup because they're also invested in the status quo for the bigots.

 

Foreign refs could work here but uefa ain't getting involved cos we can't run our own game.

 

Professional refs, with regional quotas, declared teams supported and a strict disciplinary code for poor performance is what's needed. The clubs having the ability to appeal based on other decisions made even in other games would help too. How come our player gets a red when examples x y z didn't? Rescind, or retro punish all.

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13 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

It is just incredible that the SFA knew anout this in 2014, a panel let him off and the SFA thought they could still advance him to Category 1 status ...? Just how stupid are these people?

 

Anyone know what the posts said or are we all just fetching the pitchforks anyway?

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5 minutes ago, YellowSub said:

 

Anyone know what the posts said or are we all just fetching the pitchforks anyway?

When it comes to Scottish refs, my pitchfork is always at hand. Sufficient reason for that, and any no OF supporter who doesn't want change is blind or maybe not really a non OF supporter

 

Not aimed at you chief

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2 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

I'm not sure about the foreign ref argument. Refs are just as bad in other countries!

 

The unique(ish) situ we have is a small nation with two teams sharing the majority of supporters and power, but also with deep social and religious divide.

 

So not only do we have refs under pressure from these super powers, like in other countries, but refs who are actually within their circles.

 

And an association who support that setup because they're also invested in the status quo for the bigots.

 

Foreign refs could work here but uefa ain't getting involved cos we can't run our own game.

 

Professional refs, with regional quotas, declared teams supported and a strict disciplinary code for poor performance is what's needed. The clubs having the ability to appeal based on other decisions made even in other games would help too. How come our player gets a red when examples x y z didn't? Rescind, or retro punish all.

Retro-punishment is a problem for me, as the benefit of the punishment is with other teams than the one against which the transgression happened. If a Rangers player gets sent off retrospectively for a bad foul against Aberdeen, serves his ban against St Mirren and Hamilton then plays against Aberdeen and scores the winner, how is that fair? We play each other 3-4 times a season in this country, we could easily make the ban for the next games against that same club. Yes it would indeed mean that nobody ever gets sent off in an OF game but that already seems to be case now...At least we'd see the bias for what it is.

 

I agree with the rest of your points.

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8 minutes ago, YellowSub said:

 

Anyone know what the posts said or are we all just fetching the pitchforks anyway?

It says in the headline "Sectarian, discriminatory and homophobic" - do you really need to see the actual words?

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i wish jj was my dad
7 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

I'm not sure about the foreign ref argument. Refs are just as bad in other countries!

 

The unique(ish) situ we have is a small nation with two teams sharing the majority of supporters and power, but also with deep social and religious divide.

 

So not only do we have refs under pressure from these super powers, like in other countries, but refs who are actually within their circles.

 

And an association who support that setup because they're also invested in the status quo for the bigots.

 

Foreign refs could work here but uefa ain't getting involved cos we can't run our own game.

 

Professional refs, with regional quotas, declared teams supported and a strict disciplinary code for poor performance is what's needed. The clubs having the ability to appeal based on other decisions made even in other games would help too. How come our player gets a red when examples x y z didn't? Rescind, or retro punish all.

Spot on Mr O. 

 

It is such a depressing thought that rather than tackle the probleme the authorities actively promote bigotry and corruption even if it means we fall further and further behind the rest of the world. 

 

Breaking the status quo was there for the taking in 2012 but we dirtied our pants. Shame on us all.

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6 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Retro-punishment is a problem for me, as the benefit of the punishment is with other teams than the one against which the transgression happened. If a Rangers player gets sent off retrospectively for a bad foul against Aberdeen, serves his ban against St Mirren and Hamilton then plays against Aberdeen and scores the winner, how is that fair? We play each other 3-4 times a season in this country, we could easily make the ban for the next games against that same club. Yes it would indeed mean that nobody ever gets sent off in an OF game but that already seems to be case now...At least we'd see the bias for what it is.

 

I agree with the rest of your points.

Totally agree but I still think it needs to exist. Like the idea of ban against offended club

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The problem is, this will now be used by Celtic to prove they are discriminated against, despite them getting more decisions than anyone else other than Rangers. Round and round we go.

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loveofthegame

Most Scottish football fans are Old Firm fans. Refs are Scottish football fans. Add in most refs are from Glasgow and surrounding areas. I've said it 100x but the fact that we live in a small country dominated by the two Uglies means that refs are, whether they mean to be or not, outrageously biased towards BOTH Rangers and Celtic.

 

Look at a country in England with 92 decent sized clubs, and that's just the professional set-up. You have their top referees supporting clubs like Tranmere. That surely plays a massive part in keeping bias out of their decisions.

 

The only way to slightly level the playing field up here is to bring in English or overseas refs. Even then Rangers and Celtic, with their far bigger resources, should walk the league and win most cups. But at least then, maybe decisions like the penalty in the cup final wouldn't always go against teams like us. This will however never, ever happen, as most of the Scottish media and those that run Scottish football are likely OF fans too.

 

I realise I sound a bit like a Celtic fan with the paranoia here, but I don't think I'm a million miles off the mark....

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Stupid Sexy Flanders
36 minutes ago, Cade said:

:spoton:

 

There is far too much money at stake in Football these days for us to be relying on semi-professional biased buffoons to ref the game.

 

 

 

I don't think money should be the primary concern here. I think the game itself is the most important thing.

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Stupid Sexy Flanders
21 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Retro-punishment is a problem for me, as the benefit of the punishment is with other teams than the one against which the transgression happened. If a Rangers player gets sent off retrospectively for a bad foul against Aberdeen, serves his ban against St Mirren and Hamilton then plays against Aberdeen and scores the winner, how is that fair? We play each other 3-4 times a season in this country, we could easily make the ban for the next games against that same club. Yes it would indeed mean that nobody ever gets sent off in an OF game but that already seems to be case now...At least we'd see the bias for what it is.

 

I agree with the rest of your points.

 

I think that's a great idea. Edouard should be retrospectively banned for his dive in the cup final and should serve the ban next time we play them.

Edited by Stupid Sexy Flanders
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6 minutes ago, loveofthegame said:

Most Scottish football fans are Old Firm fans. Refs are Scottish football fans. Add in most refs are from Glasgow and surrounding areas. I've said it 100x but the fact that we live in a small country dominated by the two Uglies means that refs are, whether they mean to be or not, outrageously biased towards BOTH Rangers and Celtic.

 

Look at a country in England with 92 decent sized clubs, and that's just the professional set-up. You have their top referees supporting clubs like Tranmere. That surely plays a massive part in keeping bias out of their decisions.

 

The only way to slightly level the playing field up here is to bring in English or overseas refs. Even then Rangers and Celtic, with their far bigger resources, should walk the league and win most cups. But at least then, maybe decisions like the penalty in the cup final wouldn't always go against teams like us. This will however never, ever happen, as most of the Scottish media and those that run Scottish football are likely OF fans too.

 

I realise I sound a bit like a Celtic fan with the paranoia here, but I don't think I'm a million miles off the mark....

2

Slippy G won a few penalties doing the same thing in England.

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gashauskis9
46 minutes ago, Cade said:

:spoton:

 

There is far too much money at stake in Football these days for us to be relying on semi-professional biased buffoons to ref the game.

 

 

Sadly there is too much at stake for the OF for us not to rely on them ?.

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Phil Dunphy
10 minutes ago, loveofthegame said:

Most Scottish football fans are Old Firm fans. Refs are Scottish football fans. Add in most refs are from Glasgow and surrounding areas. I've said it 100x but the fact that we live in a small country dominated by the two Uglies means that refs are, whether they mean to be or not, outrageously biased towards BOTH Rangers and Celtic.

 

Look at a country in England with 92 decent sized clubs, and that's just the professional set-up. You have their top referees supporting clubs like Tranmere. That surely plays a massive part in keeping bias out of their decisions.

 

The only way to slightly level the playing field up here is to bring in English or overseas refs. Even then Rangers and Celtic, with their far bigger resources, should walk the league and win most cups. But at least then, maybe decisions like the penalty in the cup final wouldn't always go against teams like us. This will however never, ever happen, as most of the Scottish media and those that run Scottish football are likely OF fans too.

 

I realise I sound a bit like a Celtic fan with the paranoia here, but I don't think I'm a million miles off the mark....

 

A couple of weeks back I was having a conversation with a Celtic fan about referees and how they get the benefit of so many decisions against the likes of Hearts. His response was "but what about Sevco?".

 

That's what we're dealing with here. Neither one of them can see past the other. It's all about how many decisions they get vs how many Rangers get. Completely blinkered to anything else.

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34 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

It says in the headline "Sectarian, discriminatory and homophobic" - do you really need to see the actual words?

Yes. By today's BS postmodernist standards calling someone "black" is racist, calling someone "Irish" is xenophobic etc

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7 minutes ago, JJ93 said:

Yes. By today's BS postmodernist standards calling someone "black" is racist, calling someone "Irish" is xenophobic etc

Well since the headline also says the remarks were aimed at Lennon is it any different to say he is a "Fenian Paddy poof" than a "Catholic Irish homosexual"? (little test for the sweary-filter! Edit: not even on JKB)

Edited by Spellczech
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Sub4TiddlerMurray
10 minutes ago, JJ93 said:

Yes. By today's BS postmodernist standards calling someone "black" is racist, calling someone "Irish" is xenophobic etc

 

Rubbish.

 

That's Farage/Piers Morgan/white male "we're all fed up making an effort" nonsense

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A pool of refs from, say, Scotland, England, France, Belgium, Netherlands...could work. It would cost money to transport and accommodate officials but UEFA are hardly impoverished. Just lift their snouts out the trough for a moment, scoop out some dough and redirect it. 

 

It would be nice to attend Hearts v. Old Firm games feeling there's at least a chance the ref will not be bias or too terrorised to give big decisions against them. 

Edited by martoon
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57 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

It says in the headline "Sectarian, discriminatory and homophobic" - do you really need to see the actual words?

 

Don't know about you, but I think I'd prefer to see the evidence before I hung someone.

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A clear out needed at Hampden. All this West is Best nonsense started with Dallas and has been continued on by Fleming.  We now have a plethora of awful Grade 1 referees who are only there because they are members of the Glasgow, Lanarkshire or Renfrewshire Referees Associations. None of this will change until Fleming is removed at the SFA and they take on someone who will ensure that referees are promoted on their ability and not where they come from.

Edited by Deevers
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3 minutes ago, Deevers said:

A clear out needed at Hampden. All this West is Best nonsense started with Dallas and has been continued on by Fleming.  We now have a plethora of awful Grade 1 referees who are only there because they are members of the Glasgow, Lanarkshire or Renfrewshire Referees Associations. None of this will change until Fleming is removed at the SFA take on someone who will ensure that referees are promoted on their ability and not where they come from.

 

 

Would be hard for any sane individual to argue against that view.

Edited by YellowSub
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3 minutes ago, martoon said:

A pool of refs from, say, Scotland, England, France, Belgium, Netherlands...could work. It would cost money to transport and accommodate officials but UEFA are hardly impoverished. Just lift their snouts out the trough for a moment, scoop out some dough and redirect it. 

 

It would be nice to attend Hearts v. Old Firm games feeling there's at least a chance the ref will not be bias or too terrorised to give big decisions against them. 

 

I go into every Hearts v OF game with this question, whens it coming - when are the officials going to **** us? 

 

We need to adopt a better system which leaves referees competence and leanings beyond reproach. I cannot trust that Andrew Dallas is not going to give the benefit of doubt to the huns when there is a high likilihood that he will be abused in the street, ridiculed at work, kids bullied at School. Look at John Beaton and the shitshow that followed the OF game. With that at the back of his mind, can he really be trusted to make a contentious call? No, he'll err on the side of caution, because unsurprisingly he doesn't want to be abused, or be on the receiving end of death threats. 

 

Change is needed. 

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Unknown user
1 hour ago, TheBigO said:

I'm not sure about the foreign ref argument. Refs are just as bad in other countries!

 

The unique(ish) situ we have is a small nation with two teams sharing the majority of supporters and power, but also with deep social and religious divide.

 

So not only do we have refs under pressure from these super powers, like in other countries, but refs who are actually within their circles.

 

And an association who support that setup because they're also invested in the status quo for the bigots.

 

Foreign refs could work here but uefa ain't getting involved cos we can't run our own game.

 

Professional refs, with regional quotas, declared teams supported and a strict disciplinary code for poor performance is what's needed. The clubs having the ability to appeal based on other decisions made even in other games would help too. How come our player gets a red when examples x y z didn't? Rescind, or retro punish all.

I agree, and the good ones are already employed by their local associations. There's isn't a big pool of unneeded quality foreign referees just waiting to fly to Scotland, we need to tackle our problems head on.

Edited by Smithee
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I don't necessarily reject the idea that there should e a central, Europe wide pool of referees. UEFA have done little to demonstrate that the are fit to oversee this project. The organisation stinks of corruption and prejudice to my mind.

 

The issue of Sectarianism and homophobia needs to be tackled outside football as well as inside. Unfortunately the SFA, and at least two Scottish clubs, seem to be a big part of the problem. Time for Action.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

Good for Celtic fans and the club who strongly believe refs are biased against them. 

Aye only cause Willie Collums not on social media!

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33 minutes ago, YellowSub said:

 

Don't know about you, but I think I'd prefer to see the evidence before I hung someone.

?I'm not hanging anyone. He's admitted it and stepped down. That is culpability. Nothing to do with me...Besides, my OP was about the SFA...

Edited by Spellczech
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Radio Ga Ga

Look at their European matches to see how they don’t get all the decisions, I wonder why? Oh aye, they’re foreign refs without the west coast bias...

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1 hour ago, Sub4TiddlerMurray said:

 

Rubbish.

 

That's Farage/Piers Morgan/white male "we're all fed up making an effort" nonsense

If that’s what you want to call employing reason then go for it. 

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Tommy Brown
3 hours ago, TheBigO said:

Until they widen the net from Glasgow and Lanark, nothing will change.

 

3 Edinburgh refs in Scottish Cup final history.

 

only 2 mate, slimy Dougie McDonald should not count as a referee.

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2 hours ago, JJ93 said:

Yes. By today's BS postmodernist standards calling someone "black" is racist, calling someone "Irish" is xenophobic etc

Calling someone Black is racist? 

Calling someone Irish is xenophobic ?

Only if you attach offensive insults to these descriptions surely .

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3 hours ago, Deevers said:

A clear out needed at Hampden. All this West is Best nonsense started with Dallas and has been continued on by Fleming.  We now have a plethora of awful Grade 1 referees who are only there because they are members of the Glasgow, Lanarkshire or Renfrewshire Referees Associations. None of this will change until Fleming is removed at the SFA and they take on someone who will ensure that referees are promoted on their ability and not where they come from.

 

Good post but it started way before Dallas.

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3 hours ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

A couple of weeks back I was having a conversation with a Celtic fan about referees and how they get the benefit of so many decisions against the likes of Hearts. His response was "but what about Sevco?".

 

That's what we're dealing with here. Neither one of them can see past the other. It's all about how many decisions they get vs how many Rangers get. Completely blinkered to anything else.

 

Correct!

After the Davis cheating episode, Archie McPherson came out with “Decisions will even themselves out over a season”......

he of course was referring to evening out for Celtic not Hearts!!!! 

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Just now, graygo said:

 

Good post but it started way before Dallas.

It’s been that way for years - however Dallas accelerated it and made sure that promising referees from out with the West of Scotland didn’t get a look in when it came to being promoted onto the Grade 1 list. It virtually became a closed shop. That way of thinking has continued under Fleming. Control of refereeing here has become the West of Scotland Referees Associations own fiefdom. Until that is done away with nothing will change and the game here will continue to languish in the doldrums.

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29 minutes ago, Deevers said:

It’s been that way for years - however Dallas accelerated it and made sure that promising referees from out with the West of Scotland didn’t get a look in when it came to being promoted onto the Grade 1 list. It virtually became a closed shop. That way of thinking has continued under Fleming. Control of refereeing here has become the West of Scotland Referees Associations own fiefdom. Until that is done away with nothing will change and the game here will continue to languish in the doldrums.

 

Absofeckinlutely.

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No wonder we are attrocious at international level at all age grades.  Our governance is corrupt and rotten at all levels.

 

Imo, AB and Dempster have been a breath of fresh air but even they are powerless to effect any positive change.

 

Just depressing.

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5 hours ago, OTT said:

Again. Foreign referees are the best strategy to remove this. 

 

I'm not just saying this for Scotland, I think it should be an association led initiative by UEFA. There needs to be a uniform standard of refereeing, from Sweden to Italy. To my mind, the best way of doing that is to professionalise all referees and centralise a UEFA refereeing body, to which every referee must be registered to. They are professionals at this point and not employed by any footballing association. UEFA assigns referees to countries for a set period of time (e.g. 1 season and then they're moved again) to avoid bias they cannot be assigned their country of birth. 

 

It could be paid for by ring fencing 1% of every UEFA nations TV deal (not that those ****ers don't have enough money as is). I realise some of that infrastructure already exists, but to me it seems the best strategy for taking refereeing standards out of the hands of FA's which are clearly not doing a good enough job. Not only that but it creates a consistent standard to which games are refereed to - Diving is prevalent in southern European countries, less so in Scandinavia, stands to reason that Norwegian refs in Spain are going to be a lot tougher on diving and will help to reach an equilibrium in standards as likewise, dangerous tackles will be hammered by Spanish refs in Scotland etc. 

 

 

 

I understand why this might be a tempting idea, but it just doesn't work in practice. Referees having to either emigrate or spend two extra days away from their families and main job? Needing to speak two or three languages? Scots never being allowed to referee at Hampden, English referees at Wembley, etc? Full-time refs for part-time leagues and vice versa? Or are all refs from France to the Faroe Islands going to be professional?

 

Not to mention that the majority of fans will complain for evermore that "referees from _____ just don't understand the Scottish game" ...

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2 minutes ago, Thaw said:

 

I understand why this might be a tempting idea, but it just doesn't work in practice. Referees having to either emigrate or spend two extra days away from their families and main job? Needing to speak two or three languages? Scots never being allowed to referee at Hampden, English referees at Wembley, etc? Full-time refs for part-time leagues and vice versa? Or are all refs from France to the Faroe Islands going to be professional?

 

Not to mention that the majority of fans will complain for evermore that "referees from _____ just don't understand the Scottish game" ...

All that’s needed is a clearout of those in charge of the refereeing department at Hampden.  Employ someone to take charge who has been a top class referee and who has the gravitas and professional standards to take charge of selecting referees who are competent to be at the top tier. That should not include a free ticket onto this elite band because you are from the West of Scotland. Only the competent should be the catch phrase and not the present  one of West is Best that has lumbered us with a plethora of biased, gutless, useless huddies. I suggest that initially that person should come from out with Scotland

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i wish jj was my dad
32 minutes ago, Deevers said:

All that’s needed is a clearout of those in charge of the refereeing department at Hampden.  Employ someone to take charge who has been a top class referee and who has the gravitas and professional standards to take charge of selecting referees who are competent to be at the top tier. That should not include a free ticket onto this elite band because you are from the West of Scotland. Only the competent should be the catch phrase and not the present  one of West is Best that has lumbered us with a plethora of biased, gutless, useless huddies. I suggest that initially that person should come from out with Scotland

I agree. But you assume the GFA want a level playinf field.

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Sub4TiddlerMurray
5 hours ago, JJ93 said:

Yes. By today's BS postmodernist standards calling someone "black" is racist, calling someone "Irish" is xenophobic etc

 

Please explain why this is “employing reason”. 

 

Calling someone who is black “black” is not racist and neither is calling someone Irish “Irish” xenophobic. If you add a pejorative to either however it is.

 

Hope that’s reasonable enough for you 

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