Vanecek leaves Hearts by mutual consent (title updated)

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Guy with tens of NI caps, played in English football, I suspect he has a good idea who Lafferty is and what he offers. To suggest otherwise is just foolish. 

I meant an in depth knowledge that managers would usually want to have to sign someone, he would never have played against him or watched him closely to evaluate him. I don’t think he would’ve signed him if he had.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Very odd but sounds 100% like an attitude problem on the players side to me. Thought he’d pish the league and didn’t bother getting himself in shape to hit the ground running. 

 

We’ve had other players in the same timeframe who weren’t fully fit when they arrived and who applied themselves and we’ve had players with bad injuries who got fit again.

 

Eg Uche vs Vanacek, the contrast seems clear.

 

We’ll no doubt hear both sides eventually.

 

It’s our much less embarrassing or financially damaging version of Rafael Scheidt or Derek Riorden at Celtic or countless players at Rangers.

Edited June 17, 2019 by ToqueJambo

[Jammy T]

14 minutes ago, RudiHMFC said:

 

More than 20 years. Levein isn't the man for the job.

 

You have a short memory then

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

 

I don’t think your figures are anywhere near correct tbh.

 

Our next set of accounts will show this.

I’m not an expert on our accounts, will it give in depth analysis of every signing on fee or a total? Will it specify individuals pay or costs? It was an estimate of what this has cost, in total between £100-200k but as I said I could be wrong (again).

[soonbe110]

8 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think it would depend on how much the player is being paid, 

Vanacek would get more than Mulraney for instance. I think between £100-200k is a decent estimate to the cost of this rather beguiling saga. 

The £50k was agents fees which for 20 players isn’t bad at all. 

You were way off the mark, just admit it. Made the figures up. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by soonbe110

[Pasquale for King]

14 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Wyscout gave us Paul McCallum, amongst others. We might have Wyscout Basic, not Wyscout Deluxe!

 

Either way, we have major "user errors" when using Wyscout.

Locke did say he and Brown had been to watch him, as had Murray. That guy Harry Kane was available for loan at that time, whatever happened to him ????‍♂️???

[Jambo-Fox]

38 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

No evidence of that at all, unless you have some expertise on Czech football...

A goal every third game for a club in the bottom half of the league would seem reasonable by most standards ...

[soonbe110]

6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I meant an in depth knowledge that managers would usually want to have to sign someone, he would never have played against him or watched him closely to evaluate him. I don’t think he would’ve signed him if he had.

Fine, just your opinion. I disagree 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, soonbe110 said:

You were way off the mark, just admit it. Made the figures up. 

Way off the mark? Got any proof? £3-4K a week wages = £75-100k, signing on and agent fee is likely to take it between £100-200k total cost? 

I take it you accept Chelsea make money off loans though ??‍♂️ sweep sweep sweep ?.

[DH1986]

5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think it would depend on how much the player is being paid, 

Vanacek would get more than Mulraney for instance. I think between £100-200k is a decent estimate to the cost of this rather beguiling saga. 

The £50k was agents fees which for 20 players isn’t bad at all. 

 

A player doesn’t sign a contract and get a £100k signing on fee pinged into his account overnight.

 

Signing on fees are spread over the length of the contract and often include certain stipulations for payment to be made.

 

You guessing and exaggerating the figures isn’t doing anything to help your argument.

 

Here are a few facts for you though....

 

1) You have no idea how much DV got as an initial signing on fee.

2) You have no idea how much DV earned in salary during his 5 months here.

3) You have no idea how much his agent was paid.

 

So to sum up....

 

You really have no idea how much DV cost us.

[DB-14]

I see Vanecek’s agency have said they’ll update people about his next steps shortly... 

[CostaJambo]

Far too many sensible posts on this thread now, not up to the usual JKB standard and both surprising and disappointing in equal measures. All clubs make bad signings, FACT. END OF!

[soonbe110]

5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Way off the mark? Got any proof? £3-4K a week wages = £75-100k, signing on and agent fee is likely to take it between £100-200k total cost? 

I take it you accept Chelsea make money off loans though ??‍♂️ sweep sweep sweep ?.

You said signing-on and agents fees were £100-150k I think. Way off the mark. 

No I don’t. 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, DH1986 said:

 

A player doesn’t sign a contract and get a £100k signing on fee pinged into his account overnight.

 

Signing on fees are spread over the length of the contract and often include certain stipulations for payment to be made.

 

You guessing and exaggerating the figures isn’t doing anything to help your argument.

 

Here are a few facts for you though....

 

1) You have no idea how much DV got as an initial signing on fee.

2) You have no idea how much DV earned in salary during his 5 months here.

3) You have no idea how much his agent was paid.

 

So to sum up....

 

You really have no idea how much DV cost us.

Yeah that’s why I said it was an estimate, and you have no proof that I’m wrong do you? Is it not fair to guess that he would be on £3/4K a week? If you know so much about signing on fees you will know they are paid over the period of the contract, and depending on the agreement made to end the contract are to be fully paid.

As for your other point you said that big teams get 75% of their signings right, how many out of the 20 from last season were good? Haring/Naismith/Uche and to a much lesser extent Mulraney and Clare. 20% is not great and needs to be far better this summer.

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

You said signing-on and agents fees were £100-150k I think. Way off the mark. 

No I don’t. 

I said they would be between £50k-£100 in total, an estimate of course.

Just the £65m profit from loans that become sales of players who played less than ten times for the first team.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/580011/Chelsea-loan-system-player-transfers-profits-cash-money-sportgalleries

https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2014/9/9/6123149/chelsea-loan-army-cost-ffpi

Edited June 17, 2019 by Pasquale for King

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

12 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

A goal every third game for a club in the bottom half of the league would seem reasonable by most standards ...

So in other words, you only knew his stats. Point stands.

[Mister Dee]

2 hours ago, Artful Dodger said:

 

Both parties have come out well, if anything we've done better and thankyou to David for agreeing it wasn't working and leaving so early into the contract. He didn't have to.

 

He's gone, someone else will take his place and might turn out poorly and might struggle to get into the 1st eleven, that's football. Goodbye David.

 

Case closed...

 

We've almost certainly lost a sh.. load of money on wages, signing on fee, & likely a termination of contract agreement. 

DV has been slaughtered by all at the Club -especially CL -& leaves with a tarnished reputation. 

So, I'll say again, neither side has much to be happy about over this. 

 

Case closed...?! 

[soonbe110]

7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I said they would be between £50k-£100 in total, an estimate of course.

Whatever, nothing like it. His signing on fee would only be five/18ths paid up and I suspect that time will show that he has a club to go to so the severance amount will be very small if anything. Common sense suggests he wants out as much as we want him out. 

Agent fee won’t be much as we don’t pay big agent fees and what we have paid in last 12 months ie £50k will have been swallowed up by Naismith’s agent to a significant extent. The other expensive agents fees in last 12 months would be the two keepers, Mitchell,  Dunne, Shaughnessy, as English agents are much more expensive. Not much left for Vanaceks agent. 

[PnG]

9 minutes ago, CostaJambo said:

Far too many sensible posts on this thread now, not up to the usual JKB standard and both surprising and disappointing in equal measures. All clubs make bad signings, FACT. END OF!

 

Levein and Budge must sleep like babies.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Whatever he cost, he has been yet another waste of money.

 

luckily for Levein, a lot of our fans don’t mind it getting pissed up a wall

[soonbe110]

4 minutes ago, Mister Dee said:

 

We've almost certainly lost a sh.. load of money on wages, signing on fee, & likely a termination of contract agreement. 

DV has been slaughtered by all at the Club -especially CL -& leaves with a tarnished reputation. 

So, I'll say again, neither side has much to be happy about over this. 

 

Case closed...?! 

Even the players think he was crap in training. Didn’t try a leg. Was ‘too good’ for reserve matches. 

Possibly could have been handled better. On the other hand as soon as we realised he was crap he was managed out of the club. 

[Sid]

The starting point is Vanecek let himself and Hearts down massively in turning up mid-season unfit. I think that is probably the only thing that is certain. 

Everything since then appears to be speculation. I haven’t read any ITKers state anything compelling around fitness or demonstrable ability either way during reserve games. (Except John Finlay suggested he didn’t look great in reserve games).

Loads of chat about buying him from a WyScout analysis but again no-one knows what level of scouting was done. 

 

However, some are prepared to exonerate all future actions by Vanecek and blame Levein 100%. 

I believe there is a player in there but no idea if his application, language/bonding with the team or Levein’s plain stubbornness is to blame for him not being quoted. 

For this reason, I don’t see how Levein can take full blame for this as we just don’t know. 

It does help some people’s anti-Levein agenda to do so though. 

Anyone blaming Levein for this, can you discount Vanecek’s influence? 

[soonbe110]

Just now, Sid said:

The starting point is Vanecek let himself and Hearts down massively in turning up mid-season unfit. I think that is probably the only thing that is certain. 

Everything since then appears to be speculation. I haven’t read any ITKers state anything compelling around fitness or demonstrable ability either way during reserve games. (Except John Finlay suggested he didn’t look great in reserve games).

Loads of chat about buying him from a WyScout analysis but again no-one knows what level of scouting was done. 

 

However, some are prepared to exonerate all future actions by Vanecek and blame Levein 100%. 

I believe there is a player in there but no idea if his application, language/bonding with the team or Levein’s plain stubbornness is to blame for him not being quoted. 

For this reason, I don’t see how Levein can take full blame for this as we just don’t know. 

It does help some people’s anti-Levein agenda to do so though. 

Anyone blaming Levein for this, can you discount Vanecek’s influence? 

Anyone wondering about Vanaceks commitment to playing for Hearts should just ask the next player they talk to. Not sure many will think he was interested. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah that’s why I said it was an estimate, and you have no proof that I’m wrong do you? Is it not fair to guess that he would be on £3/4K a week? If you know so much about signing on fees you will know they are paid over the period of the contract, and depending on the agreement made to end the contract are to be fully paid.

As for your other point you said that big teams get 75% of their signings right, how many out of the 20 from last season were good? Haring/Naismith/Uche and to a much lesser extent Mulraney and Clare. 20% is not great and needs to be far better this summer.

 

3 to 4k sounds very high for Vanacek. Computer says no to that one.

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

10 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Anyone wondering about Vanaceks commitment to playing for Hearts should just ask the next player they talk to. Not sure many will think he was interested. 

 

Yeah. It's not like Levein has a track record of signing players, subbing them after 30 mins then publicly lambasting them. I can't think of any players he's done this to before. 

 

It's very clear Vanacek was way out of order in some way. Whether he was asked to stay fit and come in in Jan ready to play immediately or he failed to apply himself when he did turn up or whatever, he clearly messed up and we effectively fired him for it. He didn't reckon for Levein being such a stubborn ******* too ? Should have done his research. I wonder if he claimed he was fit and Levein played him to prove he was wrong?

 

Managers do often take a dislike to players though and when that happens there can be no way back. Garath Bale and Zidane for example. My guess is Vanacek knows he messed up and that's why he didn't try to sit out his contract.

Edited June 17, 2019 by ToqueJambo

[CloustonHMFC]

5 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Anyone wondering about Vanaceks commitment to playing for Hearts should just ask the next player they talk to. Not sure many will think he was interested. 

None of the players thought he was interested, including his pal Bobby. 

[CostaJambo]

9 minutes ago, PnG said:

 

Levein and Budge must sleep like babies.

What? Wake up every 4 hours bawling their heads off for food?

[mitch41]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

According to you thats John Murray hiring tactics. You don’t even know me, haven’t seen me play but you are suggesting signing me! 

Whats the difference between Kyle Lafferty and David Vanacek? Whose fault is it that Rangers signed Lafferty? Is the fault all Gerard’s? Played very few minutes this season but looked a very good player when they scouted him last season. 

Every signing is a significant risk. Foreign signings are a huge risk, almost a lottery, in terms of whether they pan out as expected. Who knows what happened with Vanacek, certainly none of us on here do so why apportion blame when you know nothing about the why’s and wherefore’s? 

Laff couldn’t get into the Rangers team for Morales. Laff is still a great player.

[William H. Bonney]

2 minutes ago, clouston1992 said:

None of the players thought he was interested, including his pal Bobby. 

 

It just doesn’t make sense. He was buzzing to join hearts. Desperate to come early yet when he gets here he completely downs tools. 

It doesn’t sit right with me. 

[i8hibsh]

1 minute ago, Dino Velvet said:

 

It just doesn’t make sense. He was buzzing to join hearts. Desperate to come early yet when he gets here he completely downs tools. 

It doesn’t sit right with me. 

 

 

It strikes me as a clash of personalities a la Mikey Stewart and CL. I don't buy the fitness excuse anyway.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Dino Velvet said:

 

It just doesn’t make sense. He was buzzing to join hearts. Desperate to come early yet when he gets here he completely downs tools. 

It doesn’t sit right with me. 

 

It sees to be more about what he did, or didn't do, between leaving his club and turning up at Hearts. He's supposed to be a professional athlete FFS. How hard is it to stay in shape for a few weeks?

[i8hibsh]

4 minutes ago, CostaJambo said:

What? Wake up every 4 hours bawling their heads off for food?

 

Well Levein does shite himself an awful lot and Budge does need bottle fed.

[Pasquale for King]

23 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Whatever, nothing like it. His signing on fee would only be five/18ths paid up and I suspect that time will show that he has a club to go to so the severance amount will be very small if anything. Common sense suggests he wants out as much as we want him out. 

Agent fee won’t be much as we don’t pay big agent fees and what we have paid in last 12 months ie £50k will have been swallowed up by Naismith’s agent to a significant extent. The other expensive agents fees in last 12 months would be the two keepers, Mitchell,  Dunne, Shaughnessy, as English agents are much more expensive. Not much left for Vanaceks agent. 

His pay off would depend on the agreement reached.

Fair points though, didn’t know until recently how much an agent pushes for his client to go on loan as to make money. One of the reasons we lost Dunne, It’s an acceptable cost though if we get quality like him or Naismith. If we’re taking a gamble it might be better to do it through loans, you’re not stick with them or having to pay them off.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Pasquale for King

[martoon]

Just another indication of the shambles that is Craig Levein's Hearts. The only head coach in the world who has tenure. 

 

Dispiriting, depressing stuff. 

[CostaJambo]

5 minutes ago, Dino Velvet said:

 

It just doesn’t make sense. He was buzzing to join hearts. Desperate to come early yet when he gets here he completely downs tools. 

It doesn’t sit right with me. 

Being serious for a change, this part is absolutely not true and I believe where the problem started. Levein was on record inviting him to come over and get his family settled and meet his new team mates etc. when the Czech league finished around the end of November, even though he couldn't officially sign till January. I remember thinking at the time it was a strange thing to go public with. Instead Vanecek decided to go to Thailand for 3 weeks. I strongly believe this led to him starting his career at Hearts on the wrong foot, from which he never recovered.

[Pasquale for King]

24 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

3 to 4k sounds very high for Vanacek. Computer says no to that one.

 

You don’t think he would be one our top earners? A free agent signing coming to another country, he seems to have a few clubs interested, including a similar size club in Teplice who offered him an extension. The indicators seem to show he would be on that kind of wage but we might never know for sure.

[Robbo-Jambo]

21 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

It strikes me as a clash of personalities a la Mikey Stewart and CL. I don't buy the fitness excuse anyway.

I don't think it was the fitness issue either. 

 

OK, when he arrived he was badly out of shape which was ridiculous. 

 

As far I am led to believe he was put on a very hard programme to improve that problem of low fitness levels. 

 

There is no way that after 5 or 6 months of intensive training that his fitness levels would not have improved significantly, yet he couldn't get a place on the bench when we had Naismith and Keena out long term and Uche struggling as well. 

 

He either was a shite football player whether fit or not or there was something else going on behind the scenes. 

 

Will we ever find out, who knows, but it was a strange scenario from the day he arrived until the day he left. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2019 by Robbo-Jambo

[Guest ToqueJambo]

5 minutes ago, martoon said:

Just another indication of the shambles that is Craig Levein's Hearts. The only head coach in the world who has tenure. 

 

Dispiriting, depressing stuff. 

 

"Shambles" Rebuilt a spine for the squad because we didn't;t have one, signed up Berra, Souttar, Uche and Naismith and brought through some exciting youngsters, led the league until injuries cut us down, still got to a cup final and gave as good account against Celtic in a cup final as any team recently.

 

"tenure" A 3-year contract ending next summer.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

8 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

You don’t think he would be one our top earners? A free agent signing coming to another country, he seems to have a few clubs interested, including a similar size club in Teplice who offered him an extension. The indicators seem to show he would be on that kind of wage but we might never know for sure.

 

No. There's no indication at all he'd be one of our top earners. We often sign foreign players and I've never assumed they would be our top earners.

 

Internationals and players signed from top clubs, those will be our top earners.

Edited June 17, 2019 by ToqueJambo

[Guest ToqueJambo]

14 minutes ago, CostaJambo said:

Being serious for a change, this part is absolutely not true and I believe where the problem started. Levein was on record inviting him to come over and get his family settled and meet his new team mates etc. when the Czech league finished around the end of November, even though he couldn't officially sign till January. I remember thinking at the time it was a strange thing to go public with. Instead Vanecek decided to go to Thailand for 3 weeks. I strongly believe this led to him starting his career at Hearts on the wrong foot, from which he never recovered.

 

I think this is the most likely scenario. Either way, he has seriously pissed off his boss and that never ends well for anyone. We could give big Dave the benefit of the doubt and suggest Mrs Vanacek was behind the extended holiday. Pregnant women are hard to say no to.

 

Anyhow maybe we'll find out in the "My Hearts Hell" Sunday Mail article. If none appears we can definitely assume this was all on Vanacek.

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, CostaJambo said:

Being serious for a change, this part is absolutely not true and I believe where the problem started. Levein was on record inviting him to come over and get his family settled and meet his new team mates etc. when the Czech league finished around the end of November, even though he couldn't officially sign till January. I remember thinking at the time it was a strange thing to go public with. Instead Vanecek decided to go to Thailand for 3 weeks. I strongly believe this led to him starting his career at Hearts on the wrong foot, from which he never recovered.

Definitely, I said that earlier in the thread. They play July to May and it seems they take a break from the middle  of November until the middle of January. That’s obviously their longest break and maybe they enjoy it more than they should with the festivities. He still should’ve kept himself for and raring to go in January, Levein berating him didn’t work though.

[robroy1874]

Totally bizarre from start to finish

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I think this is the most likely scenario. Either way, he has seriously pissed off his boss and that never ends well for anyone. We could give big Dave the benefit of the doubt and suggest Mrs Vanacek was behind the extended holiday. Pregnant women are hard to say no to.

 

Anyhow maybe we'll find out in the "My Hearts Hell" Sunday Mail article. If none appears we can definitely assume this was all on Vanacek.

I thought the holiday was with his pals? Levein has said on a few occasions that he doesn’t hold grudges, even his biggest fan wouldn’t argue that this is a lie.

[Jambo92]

He was here for 6 months, arrived on a free and will leave without any compensation.  Hardly a crazy expense for fans to get worked up on.  Every year the team has a budget, his wage will be part of this budget - we can only get 11 players out on the field at one time so why doesn't really matter whether its Vanecek, Wighton or Keena out there cost wise.  The nature of football for a team like Hearts these days means there with be many more Martin's and Vanecek's on the way to us.  We can't simply afford to dedicate the cost or resources to scouting on the same level as the better funded leagues in Europe so we have to take gamble's for time to time.  If you want to support a team that only signs players who are safe bets I suggest you drop to League 1 or 2 level for the journeymen players who swap teams every 2 seasons.  

We made a lot of signings last year and Vanecek is probably the only one who has been a serious let down so let's cut the scouting team/Levein some slack. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

Nah it only cost us £2.50 and a packet of Hubba Bubba to the agent. See, I can make up numbers too...

It was probably you that scouted him ?

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Definitely, I said that earlier in the thread. They play July to May and it seems they take a break from the middle  of November until the middle of January. That’s obviously their longest break and maybe they enjoy it more than they should with the festivities. He still should’ve kept himself for and raring to go in January, Levein berating him didn’t work though.

 

Wasn't the public berating in response to Vanacek's public postings that were raising expectations amongst fans even though he knew himself he was nowhere near fit enough to live up to them because he'd pissed off on holiday for 4 weeks? Levein said, "Some people don’t like to speak publicly. But if the thing has been played out in public, which it has been, on social media, then I think it’s important that everybody understands."

 

It didn't work, but Vanacek is a grown adult. If he's told to get his head down, stop posting rubbish about how good you're going to be, and burst a gut to get into the team, that's what you do.

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, Jambo92 said:

He was here for 6 months, arrived on a free and will leave without any compensation.  Hardly a crazy expense for fans to get worked up on.  Every year the team has a budget, his wage will be part of this budget - we can only get 11 players out on the field at one time so why doesn't really matter whether its Vanecek, Wighton or Keena out there cost wise.  The nature of football for a team like Hearts these days means there with be many more Martin's and Vanecek's on the way to us.  We can't simply afford to dedicate the cost or resources to scouting on the same level as the better funded leagues in Europe so we have to take gamble's for time to time.  If you want to support a team that only signs players who are safe bets I suggest you drop to League 1 or 2 level for the journeymen players who swap teams every 2 seasons.  

We made a lot of signings last year and Vanecek is probably the only one who has been a serious let down so let's cut the scouting team/Levein some slack. 

Woolf it not make more sense to invest more money into scouting then. As for serious let downs ;- Wighton/Mitchell/Shaugnessy

added to Vanacek and some bang average signings with only 3 real success stories who all

missed large chunks of the season.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Pasquale for King

[Jambo-Fox]

1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

So in other words, you only knew his stats. Point stands.

So do you think he was a bad player (not decent as I assumed) when we signed him?

Edited June 17, 2019 by Jambo-Fox

[Guest ToqueJambo]

6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I thought the holiday was with his pals? Levein has said on a few occasions that he doesn’t hold grudges, even his biggest fan wouldn’t argue that this is a lie.

 

I don't keep up with Vanacek's social life but going on your hols without your pregnant wife for that long... good luck mate!

 

[Robbo-Jambo]

10 minutes ago, Jambo92 said:

He was here for 6 months, arrived on a free and will leave without any compensation.  Hardly a crazy expense for fans to get worked up on.  Every year the team has a budget, his wage will be part of this budget - we can only get 11 players out on the field at one time so why doesn't really matter whether its Vanecek, Wighton or Keena out there cost wise.  The nature of football for a team like Hearts these days means there with be many more Martin's and Vanecek's on the way to us.  We can't simply afford to dedicate the cost or resources to scouting on the same level as the better funded leagues in Europe so we have to take gamble's for time to time.  If you want to support a team that only signs players who are safe bets I suggest you drop to League 1 or 2 level for the journeymen players who swap teams every 2 seasons.  

We made a lot of signings last year and Vanecek is probably the only one who has been a serious let down so let's cut the scouting team/Levein some slack. 

How do you know that there was no compensation paid. 

 

It was a mutual agreement for him to leave but doesn't mean he didn't get a pay off because he had a contract which still had a fair bit of time left on it.