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Vanecek leaves Hearts by mutual consent (title updated)


MaskedMarauder

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2 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Do you have an interest in football or purely Hearts? If football in general, have a look at any team on this website and you will find every single club, at every single level makes countless ‘dud’

signings every season. 

 

https://www.transfermarkt.com/

Yes but these are our marquee signings .You can’t dispute Levein talked this guy up to the hilt and then failed miserably 

 

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Bazzas right boot

Great management by our commander in chief.

No pissing about

 

Better for us and DV.

 

DV and his young family can now go back home and he can enjoy his football again.

We free up a wage and can replace him.

 

Shame it never worked out, but that's football, some you win, some you lose.

 

Perfect outcome for all parties.

 

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Mr Elwood P
1 minute ago, franco2209 said:

Yes but these are our marquee signings .You can’t dispute Levein talked this guy up to the hilt and then failed miserably 

 

 

How can a guy nobody had ever heard of before last summer, possibly be a Marquee signing? Naismith, Berra and Lafferty are the Marquee signings we’ve made and they have all be brilliant signings.

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Pasquale for King
1 minute ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

I didn't for a second suggest it was true (which is why I said coz I don't know quite early on), it was just a thought. I think it is a train of thought because I find it difficult to believe that someone could be leaving a club (Teplice) where he is scoring goals regularly and doing well and after spending only 3/4 weeks on holiday turn into an overweight physical wreck, who wasn't very good at football.

I don’t think was those two things though, his fitness levels should’ve been spotted immediately and sorted before January finished, as for his ability he clearly wasn’t capable of fighting with defenders for the ball. The fouls that CHs especially get away with has shocked a few foreign strikers. There are faults on both sides to be honest, I actually think if he had been brought in earlier it might’ve been easier for him to adapt.

 

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Geoff Kilpatrick
3 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

How can a guy nobody had ever heard of before last summer, possibly be a Marquee signing? Naismith, Berra and Lafferty are the Marquee signings we’ve made and they have all be brilliant signings.

Absolutely. The talking up was by the delusional on here who thought he would seamlessly replace an international striker!

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Toxteth O'Grady

Whoever scouted him

must carry some blame. Whoever signed him must carry some blame. Whoever was in charge must also carry some blame. I suspect John Murray, Craig Levien and Ann Budge have all had a hand in this debacle. Will any of them hold their hands up and admit thirst mistakes? 

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Every business should treat their employees as responsible adults and trust that these employees conduct themselves in a way that is compatible with their employment & employer.

I suspect that DV did something(s) totally incompatible with his role as a professional footballer and that was regarded as being grossly unacceptable and hence the parting!

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Pasquale for King
1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

We signed loads of duds before 2014 as well. Probably at least one every season. Jeez,  Vlad signed about 15 duds in the one window. JJ wasted a lot of the SMG money on duds. It’s football, it happens, get over it. Chelsea had over 35 players out on loan last season, probably only 3 or 4 will ever play for the first team. That’s  circa 30 duds who all cost a lot more than anyone we have ever signed. 

That’s not a good comparison at all, Chelsea make money off their loan deals.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chelsea-profit-as-player-loan-deals-pay-off-mq6csbxb6

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3 minutes ago, Haken said:

Folk saying this has been handled well.

Folk saying both parties have come out of it well.

:cornette_dog:

 

Folk saying the earth is flat

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1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

:rofl:

 

That's one way of looking at it.

Get real ..... he didn’t leave for footballing reasons ....

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Geoff Kilpatrick
4 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

Get real ..... he didn’t leave for footballing reasons ....

And you know this how?

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Just now, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

And you know this how?

Fairly obvious I would have thought,

 he didn’t become a poor player as he arrived at Hearts, reasonable good previous ...

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29 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

It's totally our fault signing him. We'd be just as well signing you.

According to you thats John Murray hiring tactics. You don’t even know me, haven’t seen me play but you are suggesting signing me! 

Whats the difference between Kyle Lafferty and David Vanacek? Whose fault is it that Rangers signed Lafferty? Is the fault all Gerard’s? Played very few minutes this season but looked a very good player when they scouted him last season. 

Every signing is a significant risk. Foreign signings are a huge risk, almost a lottery, in terms of whether they pan out as expected. Who knows what happened with Vanacek, certainly none of us on here do so why apportion blame when you know nothing about the why’s and wherefore’s? 

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Geoff Kilpatrick
Just now, Jambo-Fox said:

Fairly obvious I would have thought,

 he didn’t become a poor player as he arrived at Hearts, reasonable good previous ...

No evidence of that at all, unless you have some expertise on Czech football...

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31 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

 

This is something I constantly hear from people who have been involved in the club in various guises, or know people involved.

 

Very rarely spoken of in a positive light in my experience. Always struck me as strange.

Virtually retired, certainly semi-retired at best. 

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I think folk are blowing this out of proportion......

 

For as long as I’ve been going to Tynecastle we’ve made signings that don’t work out as hoped.

 

Alex MacDonald signed Andy Watson and Billy McKay ffs. Joe Jordan signed numerous donkeys. Tommy McLean signed Colin Cramb and Craig Nelson. Sandy Clark signed Jim Weir.  JJ signed Leigh Jenkinson to replace Neil McCann. He also signed Fitzroy Simpson. Levein signed Kevin Twaddle.

 

What has happened here is really nothing new......

 

Player signs and it doesn’t work out. Player leaves.

Edited by DH1986
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Pasquale for King
32 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Vanacek and Amankwaa were both on 18 month contracts and left before the end so they will definitely not be as financially disastrous as some wish it was!  

I don’t think

anyone wishes it to be financially disastrous. Signing on and agent fee £50-100K, £3-4K a week for Vanacek, pay off possibly. So between £100-200k probably, about half of that for Amankwaa. It all adds up unfortunately and impacts on our ability to use that money on better quality players. We’ve made far too many mistakes in recruiting players, some more costly than others. 

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Geoff Kilpatrick
1 minute ago, DH1986 said:

I think folk are blowing this out of proportion......

 

For as long as I’ve been going to Tynecastle we’ve made signings that don’t work out as hoped.

 

Alex MacDonald signed Andy Watson and Billy McKay ffs. Joe Jordan signed numerous donkeys. Tommy McLean signed Colin Cramb and Craig Nelson. Sandy Clark signed Jim Weir.  JJ signed Leigh Jenkinson to replace Neil McCann. He also signed Fitzroy Simpson. Levein signed Kevin Twaddle.

 

What has happened here is really nothing new......

 

Player signs and it doesn’t work out. Player leaves.

All true, except the players you mention weren't perceived as being "core" to the team, unlike the way Vanacek was being hailed as the Lafferty replacement.

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Just now, Pasquale for King said:

I don’t think

anyone wishes it to be financially disastrous. Signing on and agent fee £50-100K, £3-4K a week for Vanacek, pay off possibly. So between £100-200k probably, about half of that for Amankwaa. It all adds up unfortunately and impacts on our ability to use that money on better quality players. We’ve made far too many mistakes in recruiting players, some more costly than others. 

 

I think you’re really exaggerating those signing on and agent fees tbh.

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

I don’t think

anyone wishes it to be financially disastrous. Signing on and agent fee £50-100K, £3-4K a week for Vanacek, pay off possibly. So between £100-200k probably, about half of that for Amankwaa. It all adds up unfortunately and impacts on our ability to use that money on better quality players. We’ve made far too many mistakes in recruiting players, some more costly than others. 

Nah it only cost us £2.50 and a packet of Hubba Bubba to the agent. See, I can make up numbers too...

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Mr Elwood P
1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

I don’t think

anyone wishes it to be financially disastrous. Signing on and agent fee £50-100K, £3-4K a week for Vanacek, pay off possibly. So between £100-200k probably, about half of that for Amankwaa. It all adds up unfortunately and impacts on our ability to use that money on better quality players. We’ve made far too many mistakes in recruiting players, some more costly than others. 

 

Which team hasn’t? Manchester United have spent billions since Ferguson left and done almost nothing. Why are Hearts meant to be getting 100% right with our meagre resources? 

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22 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I don’t think was those two things though, his fitness levels should’ve been spotted immediately and sorted before January finished, as for his ability he clearly wasn’t capable of fighting with defenders for the ball. The fouls that CHs especially get away with has shocked a few foreign strikers. There are faults on both sides to be honest, I actually think if he had been brought in earlier it might’ve been easier for him to adapt.

 

Said it before, you can’t make a guy fit if he isn’t interested in getting fit. Who knows what went on? 

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Nookie Bear
1 minute ago, DH1986 said:

I think folk are blowing this out of proportion......

 

For as long as I’ve been going to Tynecastle we’ve made signings that don’t work out as hoped.

 

Alex MacDonald signed Andy Watson and Billy McKay ffs. Joe Jordan signed numerous donkeys. Tommy McLean signed Colin Cramb and Craig Nelson. Sandy Clark signed Jim Weir.  JJ signed Leigh Jenkinson to replace Neil McCann ffs. He also signed Fitzroy Simpson. Levein signed Kevin Twaddle.

 

What has happened here is really nothing new......

 

Player signs and it doesn’t work out. Player leaves.

 

Which is fair enough if a player signs, has a few games where they fail to shine, or if there is a simply a better player ahead of them. 

 

Its the drama surrounding those initial appearances, followed by us struggling with McLean and Wighton that raise a number of questions relating to our recruitment and out ability to manage a player coming from a foreign country and struggling. And yes, it raises question about Vanaceks attitude. 

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13 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

That’s not a good comparison at all, Chelsea make money off their loan deals.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chelsea-profit-as-player-loan-deals-pay-off-mq6csbxb6

They don’t get anything like enough to cover their total costs. Imagine the seethe on here if we had signed Vanacek then loaned him out to make some money?

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Pasquale for King
Just now, DH1986 said:

 

I think you’re really exaggerating those signing on and agent fees tbh.

 

 

 

 

For a guy that’s on a free somewhere between £50-100k is about right for a combination of signing on and agents fees I think. Could be wrong obviously, mistakes are common aren’t they?

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Pasquale for King
Just now, soonbe110 said:

They don’t get anything like enough to cover their total costs. Imagine the seethe on here if we had signed Vanacek then loaned him out to make some money?

Yes they do read the article, you're wrong and stop trying to deflect from it. They know exactly what they’re doing, these guys are extremely unlikely  to play in Chelsea’s first team. It helps them with FFP. 

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Comes over from a foreign country and gets subbed after 30 mins and the manager calls him rubbish :rofl: one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard of tbh, he must have been desperate to play for Levein after that.

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Just now, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

All true, except the players you mention weren't perceived as being "core" to the team, unlike the way Vanacek was being hailed as the Lafferty replacement.

 

It was a different time back then.

 

So CL publically states he thinks DV will do well etc etc etc and it doesn’t work. Nobody will ever know who is at fault....assuming there is someone to blame.

 

There could be numerous reasons why it’s didn’t work out for the guy......I think folk need to let it go now. 

 

We’ll have at least two new strikers in place for next season and that’s all that really matters here.

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I do try to not think that a lot of Hearts fans are twats but it is hard.

 

The biggest clubs in the world use Wyscout - Bayern, PSG, Ajax, Barca, Dortmund and EPL clubs

 

Players like Lukaku and Willian were Wyscout dominant.

 

Insular narrow-minded Hearts hating ‘Levein out at any cost’ supposed fans that splurt our ‘ditch Wyscout’ whilst choking on their pork scratchings simply shouldn’t be listened to.

 

They apparently think they are better than the best clubs in the world at scouting players.

 

Mind-numbing bullshit.

 

 

Edited by Jammy T
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8 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I don’t think

anyone wishes it to be financially disastrous. Signing on and agent fee £50-100K, £3-4K a week for Vanacek, pay off possibly. So between £100-200k probably, about half of that for Amankwaa. It all adds up unfortunately and impacts on our ability to use that money on better quality players. We’ve made far too many mistakes in recruiting players, some more costly than others. 

Given the number of players we signed last year I’d be surprised if we have/had that magnitude of agents fees in our accounts.Cant be bothered looking but it’s not a big number.  He wouldn’t have got all of any signing-on fee in any case as that is always paid over the life of the contract. 

Every club makes lots of hiring mistakes. Perfect example, how many centre-backs has Gerrard signed? 

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1 minute ago, Jammy T said:

I do try to not think that a lot of Hearts fans are twats but it is hard.

 

The biggest clubs in the world use Wyscout - Bayern, PSG, Ajax, Barca, Dortmund and EPL clubs

 

Players like Lukaku and Willian were Wyscout dominant.

 

Insular narrow-minded Hearts hating ‘Levein out at any cost’ supposed fans that splurt our ‘ditch Wyscout’ whilst choking on their pork scratchings simply shouldn’t be listened to.

 

They apparently think they are better than the best clubs in the world at scouting players.

 

Mind-numbing bullshit.

 

 

 

What about Levein out because we're pish, we don't score goals and we're boring as sin to watch? Will that do without any add-ons?

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Mr Elwood P
9 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

For a guy that’s on a free somewhere between £50-100k is about right for a combination of signing on and agents fees I think. Could be wrong obviously, mistakes are common aren’t they?

 

 That would mean we paid between £900k - £1.8m in fees last summer? 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/sport/football/celtic/scottish-premiership-clubs-splash-out-6m-on-agents-fees-1-4923636/amp

 

but we actually spent £50k, total.

Edited by Mr Elwood P
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A hilarious debacle from start to finish! Funniest bit probably the hysteria on here from folk who had no idea who he was and had never seen him play.

 

After the Livi game it was clear he was not a target man type, pretty average in the air but defo had good feet and I thought he had potential. Clearly underestimated the pace and intensity of our top flight though. 

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9 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Which team hasn’t? Manchester United have spent billions since Ferguson left and done almost nothing. Why are Hearts meant to be getting 100% right with our meagre resources? 

Alexis Sanchez. Great at Arsenal. United fans wetting themselves. Turned out to be a dud. Surely not? That was a £60m+ dud unless something changes. 

Happens all the time. 

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Pasquale for King
3 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

I do try to not think that a lot of Hearts fans are twats but it is hard.

 

The biggest clubs in the world use Wyscout - Bayern, PSG, Ajax, Barca, Dortmund and EPL clubs

 

Players like Lukaku and Willian were Wyscout dominant.

 

Insular narrow-minded Hearts hating ‘Levein out at any cost’ supposed fans that splurt our ‘ditch Wyscout’ whilst choking on their pork scratchings simply shouldn’t be listened to.

 

They apparently think they are better than the best clubs in the world at scouting players.

 

Mind-numbing bullshit.

 

 

It’s a valuable tool no doubt but you have to also speak to people who you know to find out more, and also go and watch them. I think Haring said CL had spoken to  Flogel about him. Did they ask Zlamal or Rudi about this guy for instance. We will never know.

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Mr Elwood P
1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

Alexis Sanchez. Great at Arsenal. United fans wetting themselves. Turned out to be a dud. Surely not? That was a £60m+ dud unless something changes. 

Happens all the time. 

 

Sanchez on £500k a week or something insane as well. Do Man United have a kickback? Love to see that thread!

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Jambo, Goodbye
4 minutes ago, RudiHMFC said:

Comes over from a foreign country and gets subbed after 30 mins and the manager calls him rubbish :rofl: one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard of tbh, he must have been desperate to play for Levein after that.

He called his performance rubbish,  he also slated his fitness. 

 

He also described the entire team as "pish" in the same interview. 

 

Nobody is innocent in this debacle,  but that goes for Vanecek, who's wasted his opportunity big time. 

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3 minutes ago, RudiHMFC said:

 

What about Levein out because we're pish, we don't score goals and we're boring as sin to watch? Will that do without any add-ons?

 

We scored plenty goals when our best players were all sharp and match fit at the start of the season.

 

We need to build on that and improve and have the requisite cover to have plan B players - we are working on that.

 

You clearly haven’t been a Hearts fan (if you are) for very long.

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3 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Stop following football then because every club makes more failed signings than successful ones. 

Aye? OK after 55 years of doing so. Jog on sonny.

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6 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Which is fair enough if a player signs, has a few games where they fail to shine, or if there is a simply a better player ahead of them. 

 

Its the drama surrounding those initial appearances, followed by us struggling with McLean and Wighton that raise a number of questions relating to our recruitment and out ability to manage a player coming from a foreign country and struggling. And yes, it raises question about Vanaceks attitude. 

 

It was a signing that went wrong.

 

Name me a club and I’ll be able to find you a signing in the last two or three windows that hasn’t worked out as both club and player had hoped.

 

No matter how much or how little you spend there are transfer failures.....there always has been.

 

The drama is magnified because of social media and the constant spotlight that is shone upon clubs and players 24/7 nowadays.

 

Can you imagine the seethe on here if JKB has been around when we spent £200k on Musemic and he disappeared after about half a dozen games ?

 

No clubs gets it right.....even the top top clubs probably only have a 75% success rate and they’re spending hundreds of millions.

 

We’re in the pound shop market and its obviously a ridiculously tough market to get it right and you need to take more punts than you’d normally care to do.

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Geoff Kilpatrick
6 minutes ago, RudiHMFC said:

 

What about Levein out because we're pish, we don't score goals and we're boring as sin to watch? Will that do without any add-ons?

Nope. That would be "mind numbing bullshit" as well. :rolleyes:

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1 minute ago, Jammy T said:

 

We scored plenty goals when our best players were all sharp and match fit at the start of the season.

 

We need to build on that and improve and have the requisite cover to have plan B players - we are working on that.

 

You clearly haven’t been a Hearts fan (if you are) for very long.

 

More than 20 years. Levein isn't the man for the job.

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Pasquale for King
3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Given the number of players we signed last year I’d be surprised if we have/had that magnitude of agents fees in our accounts.Cant be bothered looking but it’s not a big number.  He wouldn’t have got all of any signing-on fee in any case as that is always paid over the life of the contract. 

Every club makes lots of hiring mistakes. Perfect example, how many centre-backs has Gerrard signed? 

Just read about the signing on fees and it depends on the agreement about the end of the contract, whether it gets paid up in full. Clubs do make mistakes, that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t strive to be the best and make less of them.

As for Gerrard he has little input into signings, it’s the DoF Mark Allen than picks them. Apart from a few like Flanagan, Davis,Defoe  and Kent what would Gerrard know about Lafferty for example?

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14 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

For a guy that’s on a free somewhere between £50-100k is about right for a combination of signing on and agents fees I think. Could be wrong obviously, mistakes are common aren’t they?

You are. Media report says we paid less than £50k agents fees, in total,  in last 12 months. 

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Geoff Kilpatrick
5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

It’s a valuable tool no doubt but you have to also speak to people who you know to find out more, and also go and watch them. I think Haring said CL had spoken to  Flogel about him. Did they ask Zlamal or Rudi about this guy for instance. We will never know.

Wyscout gave us Paul McCallum, amongst others. We might have Wyscout Basic, not Wyscout Deluxe!

 

Either way, we have major "user errors" when using Wyscout.

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16 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

For a guy that’s on a free somewhere between £50-100k is about right for a combination of signing on and agents fees I think. Could be wrong obviously, mistakes are common aren’t they?

 

I don’t think your figures are anywhere near correct tbh.

 

Our next set of accounts will show this.

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2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Just read about the signing on fees and it depends on the agreement about the end of the contract, whether it gets paid up in full. Clubs do make mistakes, that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t strive to be the best and make less of them.

As for Gerrard he has little input into signings, it’s the DoF Mark Allen than picks them. Apart from a few like Flanagan, Davis,Defoe  and Kent what would Gerrard know about Lafferty for example?

Guy with tens of NI caps, played in English football, I suspect he has a good idea who Lafferty is and what he offers. To suggest otherwise is just foolish. 

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Mr Elwood P
1 minute ago, DH1986 said:

 

I don’t think your figures are anywhere near correct tbh.

 

Our next set of accounts will show this.

 

See my post above!

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Pasquale for King
11 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

 That would mean we paid between £900k - £1.8m in fees last summer? 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/sport/football/celtic/scottish-premiership-clubs-splash-out-6m-on-agents-fees-1-4923636/amp

 

but we actually spent £50k, total.

I think it would depend on how much the player is being paid, 

Vanacek would get more than Mulraney for instance. I think between £100-200k is a decent estimate to the cost of this rather beguiling saga. 

The £50k was agents fees which for 20 players isn’t bad at all. 

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