Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Hmmm.....Dundee Hamilton...........and back again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr ewing Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Must have a good agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hectormasson Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 10 hours ago, Roland Rat said: I reckon Hickey could be the closest thing to Gary Naysmith we've seen in 20 years Maybe even better?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rees1874 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 6 hours ago, Notts1874 said: Couple of boys ??? Lee is and always has been a *****. Loved the time he turned up for the 2012 final demanding his mates got in without a ticket Hahahaha don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story mate ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elwood P Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Taffin said: Totally agree. I heard a guy talking about Ajax on the radio the other night and he was saying the best way to compete when on a money deficit to your competition is to throw your youth players into the 1st team squad and those that are good enough will flourish and come through the sticky patches. I think our reluctance to make the young lads first team players is contributing to a number of seemingly highly rated ones fading away after age 19/20. Get them in the team. De Ligt is 19 and has played 77 times for the Ajax first team. We played our youth players for two full seasons, they almost all play for lower league teams either side of the border. Sam Nicholson in the MLS is probably the only player, other than the success story Callum Paterson, to play at a higher level and even that is debatable. Having some of the best youth players on the planet is probably a stronger starting point for a team like Ajax. Edited June 5, 2019 by Mr Elwood P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said: We played our youth players for two full seasons, they almost all play for lower league teams either side of the border. Sam Nicholson in the MLS is probably the only player, other than the success story Callum Paterson, to play at a higher level and even that is debatable. Having some of the best youth players on the planet is probably a stronger starting point for a team like Ajax. I think it's fair to say given the state of our academy at the time and the circumstances that batch we're thrown in it probably didn't help them. It's not about having them play at a higher level, it's about having them play for Hearts at the level we aspire to be at. Whilst our youths aren't the same calibre as Ajax whilst at Hearts they aren't likely to ever face the calibre that the Ajax players face so they only need to be good relative to the level they are playing. I get your point but whilst we keep buying cheap middle of the road journeymen well remain a middle of the road team. Unless someone comes along with millions of quid, youths are the way we will progress and sitting them on their arse until 20/21 isn't the way to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elwood P Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 7 hours ago, Sir Gio said: Must say I am mildly surprised that quite a few people aren't seeing Hickey for what he is. Left back is not the engine room, he is 17 very soon, 3 years, 100 games, sell to the EPL for a fortune. 2 footed players with composure, ability to drift past a man, and we aren't going to play him because he is too young? I can understand him dropping out over the season for a couple of breaks, but really, if he is not starting, I feel I am being cheated. Best left back at our club in years Hickey, thus far, has reminded me of a younger Kieran Tierney, which is a massive complement as he is an excellent left back. Typical of Scotland to have had years of brilliant keepers and now producing all our best players at lack back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elwood P Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Taffin said: I think it's fair to say given the state of our academy at the time and the circumstances that batch we're thrown in it probably didn't help them. It's not about having them play at a higher level, it's about having them play for Hearts at the level we aspire to be at. Whilst our youths aren't the same calibre as Ajax whilst at Hearts they aren't likely to ever face the calibre that the Ajax players face so they only need to be good relative to the level they are playing. I get your point but whilst we keep buying cheap middle of the road journeymen well remain a middle of the road team. Unless someone comes along with millions of quid, youths are the way we will progress and sitting them on their arse until 20/21 isn't the way to do it. I agree with all of that but I don't think that batch was ever going to drive us to the next level. Jordan McGee just got relegated with Falkirk, Kevin McHattie can't get a game for ICT and David Smith has scored 1 goal in 33 appearances for Stranraer. The only players to truly flourish and progress were Paterson and to a lesser extent Walker and Nicholson. The later two look like they have subsequently regressed. I think the next batch Hickey, Cochrane, Smith, Irving and McDonald could be very good players but they are very young to be playing 30-40 games next season. I do think these players need to be more involved but with a strong core of Berra, Naismith, Michael Smith types to facilitate that development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambocub Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 7 hours ago, Sir Gio said: Must say I am mildly surprised that quite a few people aren't seeing Hickey for what he is. Left back is not the engine room, he is 17 very soon, 3 years, 100 games, sell to the EPL for a fortune. 2 footed players with composure, ability to drift past a man, and we aren't going to play him because he is too young? I can understand him dropping out over the season for a couple of breaks, but really, if he is not starting, I feel I am being cheated. Best left back at our club in years I hope he turns into a cracking player for us , and based on his performances so far he looks good . It'll be interesting to see how we play him next season as he's meant to be a right back. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Muddie Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, Sir Gio said: Must say I am mildly surprised that quite a few people aren't seeing Hickey for what he is. Left back is not the engine room, he is 17 very soon, 3 years, 100 games, sell to the EPL for a fortune. 2 footed players with composure, ability to drift past a man, and we aren't going to play him because he is too young? I can understand him dropping out over the season for a couple of breaks, but really, if he is not starting, I feel I am being cheated. Best left back at our club in years I'm with you Sir Gio. Good enough = old enough. Best place for young players to develop (if like him they're good enough) is in the first team playing seasoned professionals, getting real experience of big games. Edited June 6, 2019 by Stephen Muddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Muddie Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Mr Elwood P said: Hickey, thus far, has reminded me of a younger Kieran Tierney, which is a massive complement as he is an excellent left back. Typical of Scotland to have had years of brilliant keepers and now producing all our best players at lack back! I know. Cannot wait for the glut of quality strikers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 7 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said: I agree with all of that but I don't think that batch was ever going to drive us to the next level. Jordan McGee just got relegated with Falkirk, Kevin McHattie can't get a game for ICT and David Smith has scored 1 goal in 33 appearances for Stranraer. The only players to truly flourish and progress were Paterson and to a lesser extent Walker and Nicholson. The later two look like they have subsequently regressed. I think the next batch Hickey, Cochrane, Smith, Irving and McDonald could be very good players but they are very young to be playing 30-40 games next season. I do think these players need to be more involved but with a strong core of Berra, Naismith, Michael Smith types to facilitate that development. Completely agree. I don't think we had players who were really good enough back then coming through, nor did they have the experience to help them flourish. Absolutely agree about having a core for them to learn from; I wouldn't go 1-11 of the kids but when a player like Hickey comes through I'd have no qualms making him number 1 left back in a defence that has Souttar, Berra and Smith in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 10 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said: We played our youth players for two full seasons, they almost all play for lower league teams either side of the border. Sam Nicholson in the MLS is probably the only player, other than the success story Callum Paterson, to play at a higher level and even that is debatable. Having some of the best youth players on the planet is probably a stronger starting point for a team like Ajax. TBF they get the best youth because they have the reputation for developing and giving them opportunities. This is a strategy, a long-term practice which a club must maintain over many years. Do it and the parents and kids will start to see your club as a better option than those like the OF which just chuck some money around then chuck kids on the scrapheap... (In a strange way Chelsea and Manu have a different approach but a good reputation as they develop youth at other clubs whilst paying them a comfortable wage and then selling them for millions. If you are bought for millions you tend to get a game....Celtic and Rangers are now trying to copy this method I reckon.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 11 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said: We played our youth players for two full seasons, they almost all play for lower league teams either side of the border. Sam Nicholson in the MLS is probably the only player, other than the success story Callum Paterson, to play at a higher level and even that is debatable. Having some of the best youth players on the planet is probably a stronger starting point for a team like Ajax. It’s not debatable, the MLS is not a higher standard, someone completed an academic study and concluded we were a better team than LA Galaxy. Levein did quote the Ajax system regarding coaches and players where they play the same style, but then as manager the first team plays differently trying to find a solution to the most current problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 11 hours ago, jambocub said: I hope he turns into a cracking player for us , and based on his performances so far he looks good . It'll be interesting to see how we play him next season as he's meant to be a right back. . He’s two footed so I think he will stick to the left and hopefully solve that problem position in the few years. He just needs to handled properly as he’s still extremely young obviously, what a prospect though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elwood P Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 9 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: It’s not debatable, the MLS is not a higher standard, someone completed an academic study and concluded we were a better team than LA Galaxy. Levein did quote the Ajax system regarding coaches and players where they play the same style, but then as manager the first team plays differently trying to find a solution to the most current problem. You clearly don’t understand academics if you believe that one report is conclusive to the point of ending all debate on a topic. If you could provide a link to the report we will be able to discuss whether or not it has any merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said: You clearly don’t understand academics if you believe that one report is conclusive to the point of ending all debate on a topic. If you could provide a link to the report we will be able to discuss whether or not it has any merit. Yeah I understand it thanks having having a Masters degree from the UoE, the study has been well documented on here before but I will see what I can find. I’m pretty sure he will be the only person to have researched it though. The MLS has some great has beens in it and some duds like Perry Kitchen, as most American sports there are loads of goals/points scored to keep the fans small attention spans engaged ??.. This is a good article. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/feb/06/how-mls-and-the-scottish-premiership-became-unexpected-frenemies Edited June 6, 2019 by Pasquale for King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambocub Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 15 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: He’s two footed so I think he will stick to the left and hopefully solve that problem position in the few years. He just needs to handled properly as he’s still extremely young obviously, what a prospect though. Sure all our players are 2 footed?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elwood P Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: Yeah I understand it thanks having having a Masters degree from the UoE, the study has been well documented on here before but I will see what I can find. I’m pretty sure he will be the only person to have researched it though. The MLS has some great has beens in it and some duds like Perry Kitchen, as most American sports there are loads of goals/points scored to keep the fans small attention spans engaged ??. Well if you are well educated why did you say it wasn’t open to debate? Everything is open to debate. Some strange folk have managed to create an entire debate about the shape of our planet. Though I suspect they are the top trolls of the internet and don’t actually believe it. An academic report is only as convincing as the academic and institution that produced it. I personally think the MLS has been very successful in developing its brand, talking itself up and subsequently attracting superstars. They get ‘has beens’ such as Rooney, Zlatan and Villa. We’ve got Defoe and Arfield! Edited June 6, 2019 by Mr Elwood P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 10 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said: Well if you are well educated why did you say it wasn’t open to debate? Everything is open to debate. Some strange folk have managed to create an entire debate about the shape of our planet. Though I suspect they are the top trolls of the internet and don’t actually believe it. An academic report is only as convincing as the academic and institution that produced it. I personally think the MLS has been very successful in developing its brand, talking itself up and subsequently attracting superstars. They get ‘has beens’ such as Rooney, Zlatan and Villa. We’ve got Defoe and Arfield! Yeah I was wrong there it is debatable, can’t find the study but just read a few articles on it. The salary cap obviously makes a difference. Those three you mentioned are it, there’s no other superstars really, a mix of good players and Danny Wilson types. Apparently two teams were interested in Scott Brown, imagine him doing his thing over there where people have guns ?. They do have a more even league than most in Europe, like most American sports. Most of the articles focus on one part of the argument, Fifa rankings, UEFA ranking of the leagues etc where Croatia are lowly ranked but have a great national team. One guy said their League is the equivalent to League 1 in England, another came up with my favourite which is a MLS-SPFL cup of some sort. Imagine the trips, our songbook would grow exponentially. Make it so Ann. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 28 minutes ago, jambocub said: Sure all our players are 2 footed?? Indeed ?, one of which is usually injured ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elwood P Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 8 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: Yeah I was wrong there it is debatable, can’t find the study but just read a few articles on it. The salary cap obviously makes a difference. Those three you mentioned are it, there’s no other superstars really, a mix of good players and Danny Wilson types. Apparently two teams were interested in Scott Brown, imagine him doing his thing over there where people have guns ?. They do have a more even league than most in Europe, like most American sports. Most of the articles focus on one part of the argument, Fifa rankings, UEFA ranking of the leagues etc where Croatia are lowly ranked but have a great national team. One guy said their League is the equivalent to League 1 in England, another came up with my favourite which is a MLS-SPFL cup of some sort. Imagine the trips, our songbook would grow exponentially. Make it so Ann. That would be incredible. The kind of big idea that the suits in Scotland wouldn’t have the ambition to pursue. Hearts v NY Red Bulls or LA Galaxy! They also have some very good players that aren’t big name, ageing, European stars. Josef Martinez currently and Almiron and Alphonso Davies who have just got big moves. I think if I had to chose between Motherwell and Miami I would be heading stateside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 7 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said: That would be incredible. The kind of big idea that the suits in Scotland wouldn’t have the ambition to pursue. Hearts v NY Red Bulls or LA Galaxy! They also have some very good players that aren’t big name, ageing, European stars. Josef Martinez currently and Almiron and Alphonso Davies who have just got big moves. I think if I had to chose between Motherwell and Miami I would be heading stateside. Exactly. It would showcase the players in both leagues too. The possibilities are endless. The OF have huge followings over there so they would be up for it. The EPL might beat us to it though as they’re over there every summer. They are progressing but so are we, our Scotland captain and his CL winners medal is touted as the best LB in the world and valued at £70-100m. Both leagues have value for money bargains to be had, whisper it but that guy McGinn has done better than I though he would ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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