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Fifa Women's World Cup


Maroon Sailor

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highlandjambo3
7 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

Sorry if I offend anyone but I watched a fair bit as I was off, and thought it was awful. Fair enough for those that like it, are entertained and think it’s decent but I thought it was poor quality in the extreme. Supply and demand and all that but it’s not for me by a long shot. 

 

I though it was quite good at points.  If you are making a clear comparison = the men’s game then it is a bit off the mark.  Particularly the goal keeping (with the odd exception) was poor, the goalies seemed to be quite slow at getting across for fast balls plugged to the outer edges of the posts, particularly if the ball was high.  On the other hand.....seen some cracking goals and shots on goal.... wonder how that USA team would match up in our league..... could certainly spank a few teams imo  

Edited by highlandjambo3
On reflection...... the word “spank” is probably not what I should have said
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9 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

 

It's certainly viable in Germany as a professional league. At least a 3rd of their league are stand alone clubs with no male counterparts. 2 of those clubs, Turbine and Frankfurt, were utterly dominant, winning the domestic and European competitions regularly. It's only been recently, when the teams with male counterparts have had investment, that they've fell a bit behind, although Turbine are still regularly in the top 3 (Scotland's own Lisa Evans played for them a few seasons back). 

 

As far as I'm aware, none of them are trying to claim they should be paid the same as the men, at least at club level. The wages aren't great, just under $50k a year on average, but enough for these women to make a decent living from it.

 

Average attendances aren't great (about SPFL1 +2 levels, some lower) but they can pull in 5 figure crowds for bigger European games and around 5-7k for the bigger domestic ones. 

 

This hasn't happened overnight, it's taken a good few years to get to that level, but the professional women's game is definitely strong enough to be pro in Germany. 

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1 hour ago, Normthebarman said:

It's certainly viable in Germany as a professional league. At least a 3rd of their league are stand alone clubs with no male counterparts. 2 of those clubs, Turbine and Frankfurt, were utterly dominant, winning the domestic and European competitions regularly. It's only been recently, when the teams with male counterparts have had investment, that they've fell a bit behind, although Turbine are still regularly in the top 3 (Scotland's own Lisa Evans played for them a few seasons back). 

 

As far as I'm aware, none of them are trying to claim they should be paid the same as the men, at least at club level. The wages aren't great, just under $50k a year on average, but enough for these women to make a decent living from it.

 

Average attendances aren't great (about SPFL1 +2 levels, some lower) but they can pull in 5 figure crowds for bigger European games and around 5-7k for the bigger domestic ones. 

 

This hasn't happened overnight, it's taken a good few years to get to that level, but the professional women's game is definitely strong enough to be pro in Germany. 

For the product on show those wages ARE great. I’d kill to earn €50,000 a year playing football (I don’t earn that in my dead end job driving a taxi and I’d take my current earnings to play football!) and those crowds, even the low ones, are decent. Good luck to them.

As for Highland’s “spank” comment, it doesn’t matter what word you use, it’s wrong to say they’d beat, hammer, spank or even hump, anyone in our league. The two games don’t equate and never will quality and strength wise. The experiment where the boys club team (U15s I think, although I can’t find posts to check) comfortably defeated the USA women shows this. Cowdenbeath would reach double figures against them. 

Having said all that, they play at the standard they do and I found it pretty entertaining overall. Some of the “professional” stuff that goes on in the men’s game wasn’t missed at all although it will creep in over time, I’m sure. 

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Maroon Sailor
18 hours ago, Cade said:

VAR gives (correct) decision against you = It's killing football, get rid of it.

VAR gives (correct) decision for you = It's the best thing to be brought to the game in years.

 

 

 

That's not the issue with VAR

 

It's giving penalties after 30 odd views or penalties when the ball is blasted at a player from 1 yard and just happens to hit an arm or hand or keepers moving 1 centimetre off their line at a penalty or someone being offside because their boot lace is ahead of the last defender.

 

Clear and concise is what it was brought in for not that shit above

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Nucky Thompson
1 hour ago, highlandjambo3 said:

 

 wonder how that USA team would match up in our league..... could certainly spank a few teams imo  

The Aussie women got spanked 7-0 from 15 year old boys so that should answer your question :lol:

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Francis Albert

Watched it in the States. It is quite a phenomenon there. Every bar showed every game. When the USA were playing, in a bar with about 30 screens, normally split between five or six sports even when big games (like the NBA finals) were on, every screen showed USA vs France. The reactions were a bit different from a traditional football crowd - long shots from far out, easy meat for the keeper, seemed to attract the biggest roars, short of a goal.

The popularity is I think explained by a number of factors. It is one of the few world team sports which the USA dominates and indeed even really competes in - for baseball, their football, basketball , ice hockey the "world" is North America. The women are more successful than the men. And at the risk of being accused of being racist it is probably the only team sport where whites are at least equally represented - in fact at the national level, predominate over players of other colours.

The standard of play is good, but the US women's team shares some of the qualities of the men's team - physically very strong and athletic but I thought lacking some of the football skills of say France (some of the  US players admitted as much after the French game).

Anyway good to see the  world's best team game spreading geographically and trans-sexually (as it were).

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21 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said:

For the product on show those wages ARE great. I’d kill to earn €50,000 a year playing football (I don’t earn that in my dead end job driving a taxi and I’d take my current earnings to play football!) and those crowds, even the low ones, are decent. Good luck to them.

As for Highland’s “spank” comment, it doesn’t matter what word you use, it’s wrong to say they’d beat, hammer, spank or even hump, anyone in our league. The two games don’t equate and never will quality and strength wise. The experiment where the boys club team (U15s I think, although I can’t find posts to check) comfortably defeated the USA women shows this. Cowdenbeath would reach double figures against them. 

Having said all that, they play at the standard they do and I found it pretty entertaining overall. Some of the “professional” stuff that goes on in the men’s game wasn’t missed at all although it will creep in over time, I’m sure. 

It's 50k in US dollars. About 45k in Euros. 40k in Sterling. Still good money.

 

The women will never compete with men. Why would they? Are there any sports where women compete with men? I know Turbine took on a boys team after one of their Champions League wins and, again, got spanked. I'm not sure how much that has to do with quality though, and how much it has to do with fitness, strength and power. 

 

It's miles behind the men's game. That doesn't mean it isn't entertaining and an enjoyable watch. 

Edited by Normthebarman
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Calebs Grandad

USA v USA Women would now be worth playing if just to put into perspective the difference in ability. 

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9 minutes ago, Normthebarman said:

The women will never compete with men. Why would they? Are there any sports where women compete with men? I know Turbine took on a boys team after one of their Champions League games and, again, got spanked. I'm not sure how much that has to do with quality though, and how much it has to do with fitness, strength and power. 

 

It's miles behind the men's game. That doesn't mean it isn't entertaining and an enjoyable watch. 

I don’t disagree. I found it entertaining. The point I was debating with you was that €50,000pa wasn’t great. To play football in front of 500 folk, I’m saying it is great. I’m also saying that drawing 500 is actually ok. 5-7k is fantastic and for women to get 5 figure crowds at club level is amazing. 

The second half of my post was in response to Highlandjambo3’s assertion that the USA women would spank some teams in our league, which they simply wouldn’t. 

Edited by Shaggy2
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5 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said:

I don’t disagree. I found it entertaining. The point I was debating with you was that €50,000pa wasn’t great. To play football in front of 500 folk, I’m saying it is great. I’m also saying that drawing 500 is actually ok. 5-7k is fantastic and for women to get 5 figure crowds at club level is amazing. 

The second half of my post was in response to Highlandjambo3’s assertion that the USA women would spank some teams in our league, which they simply wouldn’t. 

I know you weren't disagreeing, dude. I was just expanding on a few points you'd made. 

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highlandjambo3
22 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

The Aussie women got spanked 7-0 from 15 year old boys so that should answer your question :lol:

You are correct, the Aussie team would be thrashed but, considering they are a few bars below the USA I would suggest my question has not been answered (nor will it be), speculation only 

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1 minute ago, highlandjambo3 said:

You are correct, the Aussie team would be thrashed but, considering they are a few bars below the USA I would suggest my question has not been answered (nor will it be), speculation only 

If the best club team in Europe got pumped by a boys club, I'm not sure the USA would do any better. 

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2 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

 

I though it was quite good at points.  If you are making a clear comparison = the men’s game then it is a bit off the mark.  Particularly the goal keeping (with the odd exception) was poor, the goalies seemed to be quite slow at getting across for fast balls plugged to the outer edges of the posts, particularly if the ball was high.  On the other hand.....seen some cracking goals and shots on goal.... wonder how that USA team would match up in our league..... could certainly spank a few teams imo  

They lost 5-2 to FC Dallas U15's academy team two years ago in a bounce game.

 

There's absolutely no danger they'd get anywhere close to giving teams in our league a game.

 

 

 

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Armageddon

For me, the highlight of the birds world cup has been the photos of Jennifer Beattie and that Cricketer lassie Danielle Wyatt - I'm what's wrong with this world.

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Nucky Thompson
1 hour ago, highlandjambo3 said:

You are correct, the Aussie team would be thrashed but, considering they are a few bars below the USA I would suggest my question has not been answered (nor will it be), speculation only 

Don't be ridiculous. The Aussie team got out the group stage and lost to Norway on pens.

They lost 5-3 to the USA in April.

The Aussies lost 7-0 to a bunch of kids and you think the USA would spank teams in the top Scottish men's league :jj_facepalm:

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Nucky Thompson
2 hours ago, Rudolf said:

They lost 5-2 to FC Dallas U15's academy team two years ago in a bounce game.

 

There's absolutely no danger they'd get anywhere close to giving teams in our league a game.

 

 

 

There must be a reason why Women's national sides get put up against 15 year old boys teams?

 

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41 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

There must be a reason why Women's national sides get put up against 15 year old boys teams?

 

Not enough women's teams to organise friendlies and senior men's teams have a congested calendar and refuse.

Playing semi pro youth teams is all they can do.

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4 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

You are correct, the Aussie team would be thrashed but, considering they are a few bars below the USA I would suggest my question has not been answered (nor will it be), speculation only 

:rofl: An over 40s JKB select would put 10 past the USA.

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highlandjambo3
2 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Don't be ridiculous. The Aussie team got out the group stage and lost to Norway on pens.

They lost 5-3 to the USA in April.

The Aussies lost 7-0 to a bunch of kids and you think the USA would spank teams in the top Scottish men's league :jj_facepalm:

No I don’t think..... the key to my statement was “I wonder”.... more along the lines of what if

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14 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

No I don’t think..... the key to my statement was “I wonder”.... more along the lines of what if

Here's what you said:

 

''wonder how that USA team would match up in our league..... could certainly spank a few teams imo''

 

So the question is, who do you think they could spank given they can't even spank youth team?

 

 

 

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Portable Badger
53 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

:rofl: An over 40s JKB select would put 10 past the USA.

So long as we don't have JKB 'Zibi-Moncs' in goal !!!!!    Shifted 7 goals last time he played for JKB (allegedly) !!

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7 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

That's not the issue with VAR

 

It's giving penalties after 30 odd views or penalties when the ball is blasted at a player from 1 yard and just happens to hit an arm or hand or keepers moving 1 centimetre off their line at a penalty or someone being offside because their boot lace is ahead of the last defender.

 

Clear and concise is what it was brought in for not that shit above

 

English Premier League have said they will not be awarding penalties from VAR for the marginal calls we saw during World Cup. Presumably English equaliser v Sweden wouldn't be ruled out either. Basically limiting how VAR is used. 

 

Not sure how they can do that when the issue is more about the new handball rules but fair enough. VAR was certainly a lot better last year  at men's World Cup. 

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Fozzyonthefence
5 hours ago, Rudolf said:

Here's what you said:

 

''wonder how that USA team would match up in our league..... could certainly spank a few teams imo''

 

So the question is, who do you think they could spank given they can't even spank youth team?

 

 

 

 

? Highlandjambo3 having a bit of mare!

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Maroon Sailor
3 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

English Premier League have said they will not be awarding penalties from VAR for the marginal calls we saw during World Cup. Presumably English equaliser v Sweden wouldn't be ruled out either. Basically limiting how VAR is used. 

 

Not sure how they can do that when the issue is more about the new handball rules but fair enough. VAR was certainly a lot better last year  at men's World Cup. 

 

Trouble with VAR is it can't distinguish between accidental and deliberate, avoidable and unavoidable, dives and stonewallers

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Pasquale for King
22 hours ago, ri Alban said:

:rofl: An over 40s JKB select would put 10 past the USA.

They would be too busy arguing with each other, or fighting after someone scored and revealed a “Levein Oot” T-shirt underneath their strip 😃😜.

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Pasquale for King
15 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Trouble with VAR is it can't distinguish between accidental and deliberate, avoidable and unavoidable, dives and stonewallers

Indeed, it’s still up to the discretion of the ref.

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ToadKiller Dog

I'm a bit miffed to what an under 15 boys team beating a womans team is supposed to prove?. 

I would guess an elite athlete boy at 15 on average may well be physically stronger quicker than a fully grown woman. 

Some 12 year old boys can be physically stronger than adult women dependent on puberty. 

 

Boris Becker won Wimbledon at 17 against fully grown men. 

 

I don't think comparing women with men or advanced level boys is fair. 

 

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17 minutes ago, ToadKiller Dog said:

I'm a bit miffed to what an under 15 boys team beating a womans team is supposed to prove?. 

I would guess an elite athlete boy at 15 on average may well be physically stronger quicker than a fully grown woman. 

Some 12 year old boys can be physically stronger than adult women dependent on puberty. 

 

Boris Becker won Wimbledon at 17 against fully grown men. 

 

I don't think comparing women with men or advanced level boys is fair. 

 

I was simply answering another poster who said the USA women's team would spank some of the teams in our league.

 

They clearly wouldn't.

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1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

They would be too busy arguing with each other, or fighting after someone scored and revealed a “Levein Oot” T-shirt underneath their strip 😃😜.

:D Right enough.

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Pasquale for King
42 minutes ago, scratchy said:

Well done USA...but d'ye have to be so smug about it???

Imagine being smug eh, we never remind Hibs about 5-1 do we 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️😜?

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Portable Badger
7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Imagine being smug eh, we never remind Hibs about 5-1 do we 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️😜?

That's not being smug !   That's confidently assured of our natural place in the pecking order

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12 minutes ago, Portable Badger said:

That's not being smug !   That's confidently assured of our natural place in the pecking order

 

What the USA women are. 

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ToadKiller Dog
2 hours ago, Rudolf said:

I was simply answering another poster who said the USA women's team would spank some of the teams in our league.

 

They clearly wouldn't.

Agree with that 100%, they wouldn't. 

Physicality the women teams can't compete. 

Playing against  under 15 boys is a good challenge for women's teams. 

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Pasquale for King
1 hour ago, Portable Badger said:

That's not being smug !   That's confidently assured of our natural place in the pecking order

In women’s football the US team is the same. 

 

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On 08/07/2019 at 13:49, Nucky Thompson said:

There must be a reason why Women's national sides get put up against 15 year old boys teams?

 

The same reason why some of the lowest ranked male tennis players would beat the top ranked female players. Physicality - it isn’t a level playing field. Beyond a certain age, boys become too strong and fast for women to be able to compete regardless if they have better technique. My daughter played at a high level in the women’s game  and I seen this time and again in pre-season friendlies.  Even if the boys team were average, they could rely on greater speed and strength to usually win the game.

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15 hours ago, JamboM003 said:

The same reason why some of the lowest ranked male tennis players would beat the top ranked female players. Physicality - it isn’t a level playing field. Beyond a certain age, boys become too strong and fast for women to be able to compete regardless if they have better technique. My daughter played at a high level in the women’s game  and I seen this time and again in pre-season friendlies.  Even if the boys team were average, they could rely on greater speed and strength to usually win the game.

I should add I am not being critical of the women’s game. I’m genuinely not and there are quality and technically gifted players and I have found a number of the games entertaining. My point is that you cannot make an assessment of the quality of the women’s game through comparison to the men’s game or through results from female v male games.

 

Perhaps another example taking different genders out of it is men’s boxing. You could have the most gifted pound for pound boxer at flyweight but you would not put him in against a heavyweight. The difference in size, weight and strength would make it a complete mismatch of a contest. That does not though result in the flyweights abilities not being recognised or valued. Everyone just accepts that it wouldn’t be a fair and even contest.

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jack D and coke

What an absolute arse that Rapinoe is. A proper annoying bint. 

All chanting equal pay as well...

:cornette:

 

 

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Fozzyonthefence
9 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

What an absolute arse that Rapinoe is. A proper annoying bint. 

All chanting equal pay as well...

:cornette:

 

 

 

What has she said now?

 

The equal pay thing is laughable.  The fans chanting it - do they even know what they are chanting for?  Is it equal pay for one particular team, or all teams? Do they want the amateur women players to get paid the same as professional men?   

 

Do they really believe the women should be paid the same as the men who generate billions of pounds through TV rights, sponsorships, etc, not to mention huge crowds at overpriced ticket prices?  Once they start generating the same levels of income as the men do, then people might start to take them seriously.

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jack D and coke
11 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

 

What has she said now?

 

The equal pay thing is laughable.  The fans chanting it - do they even know what they are chanting for?  Is it equal pay for one particular team, or all teams? Do they want the amateur women players to get paid the same as professional men?   

 

Do they really believe the women should be paid the same as the men who generate billions of pounds through TV rights, sponsorships, etc, not to mention huge crowds at overpriced ticket prices?  Once they start generating the same levels of income as the men do, then people might start to take them seriously.

I’ve just seen numerous videos of her on twitter and stuff and she just comes across a proper annoying idiot to be quite honest. Really, really annoying :lol: 

This equal pay lark has just got to stop as well imo. I seen the American fans all singing it at their games too, cringey as feck. 

Women need to get a grip of themselves and face facts their sport is for the most part, shite. 

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Fozzyonthefence
1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

I’ve just seen numerous videos of her on twitter and stuff and she just comes across a proper annoying idiot to be quite honest. Really, really annoying :lol: 

This equal pay lark has just got to stop as well imo. I seen the American fans all singing it at their games too, cringey as feck. 

Women need to get a grip of themselves and face facts their sport is for the most part, shite. 

 

USA is probably the only country where the women’s team generates more income than their men’s team.  However, to suggest the prize funds, as a whole, should be equal for the men’s and women’s world cups is mental.  

 

If women’s football is going to remain professional it really should do it off it’s own back instead of being bankrolled by FIFA or, at club level, by the FA or men’s clubs.  

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Isn't it possible that they're asking for the same pay as the US men's team? In which case, they have a point. 

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jack D and coke
55 minutes ago, Normthebarman said:

Isn't it possible that they're asking for the same pay as the US men's team? In which case, they have a point. 

One of the Scottish girls mentioned it too during the tournament. 

At the end of the day if they can start to generate the same crowds and interest etc you can’t have any truck with it but it’s not there yet is it. It’s just unreasonable demands because they think it’s some sort of discrimination when it’s just not. 

 

 

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It honestly boggles my mind, this equal pay thing. I just can't wrap my head around it.

 

I say this as someone who got a big laugh out of a tweet I saw the day the US women won the World Cup for the fourth time--"So we're just gonna call it soccer and men's soccer now, right?" I mean, that's quality, and a wholly justified dig considering how shit the US men's team has been lately.

But similar to the women's tennis prize fund argument, the money has to come from somewhere--specifically, how many dollars/pounds/euros/yen/whatever your sport moves, and we all know women's football does not come close to comparing to men's football in that respect, even in the US. The American women's professional league has nine teams and no national TV agreement, while MLS has reached 24, an average attendance over 20,000, and live TV of every match.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

It honestly boggles my mind, this equal pay thing. I just can't wrap my head around it.

 

I say this as someone who got a big laugh out of a tweet I saw the day the US women won the World Cup for the fourth time--"So we're just gonna call it soccer and men's soccer now, right?" I mean, that's quality, and a wholly justified dig considering how shit the US men's team has been lately.

But similar to the women's tennis prize fund argument, the money has to come from somewhere--specifically, how many dollars/pounds/euros/yen/whatever your sport moves, and we all know women's football does not come close to comparing to men's football in that respect, even in the US. The American women's professional league has nine teams and no national TV agreement, while MLS has reached 24, an average attendance over 20,000, and live TV of every match.

 

 

 

 

That's the crux of it. Equality is the equal opportunity to earn an equal wage imo. I don't see that women's football is being prevented that, it's up to them to market their game and generate those kind of funds.

 

They're not actually asking for equal pay, they're asking for subsidised pay. Would that accerlarate their game to help it stand on its own two feet sooner? Possibly. But it might not. I do think at an international level there would be merit to the associations investing equal amounts but at club level probably not.

 

As you say, the money has to come from somewhere and until the product commands that revenue from the market then it either needs to have lower salaries or be subsidised.

 

 

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Subsidised football already takes place in the mens game. It's arguable that it happens in our top flight. The sponsorship and TV deals are earned mainly because of the OF. Yet the cash is spread through the leagues. We've even argued ourselves that we should have an even bigger chunk of money to create a more level playing field. 

 

I don't think players at club level should earn the same but there's definitely an argument that the US women's team should get paid the same for their national appearances as their men. 

Edited by Normthebarman
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