End of season Craig Levein poll

[Mr Elwood P]

15 minutes ago, martoon said:

CL managed to squeeze a performance out of a team. Yahoo. It was a Cup final, man. Squeezing, cajoling etc. really shouldn't be necessary. 

 

Our performance levels, individually and collectively, have been abysmal. The team looks clueless from kick off in most games. No plan, no aim, no direction. There's been the odd 20 minutes, even an entire half (yippee), when we've played well. But it's rarely risen above "playing well" and certainly doesn't last.

 

I fear next season is going to be the same. We'll probably scrape top six, rarely look like an actual football team and it's extremely unlikely we'll strike gold again in Cup draws.

 

Heart of Midlothian are sleepwalking into a future of mediocrity and apathy but still some believe that it's all going to be okay. That somehow Craig Levein's approach to football is going to miraculously click into place and be successful and pleasant to watch?

 

Sadly, I'm going to get the Hearts that the "CL should stay" punters deserve. 

 

Fecking depressing.

 

He also managed to squeeze a number of consecutively high level performances out of the same team at the start of the campaign. The litmus test is the League Cup and opening 11 games. If we start in the same form as last campaign it is quite conclusive that the injuries destroyed last season. If we start as we ended it would be quite concerning and would suggest a deeper issue.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Mr Elwood P

[JamboX2]

If he leaves the dugout he will be DOF again. So we would appoint a new Head Coach - who are we likely to get on that basis?

 

Hartley, needs a kickstarter 

Pressley, old pals

McPhee, been part of an arguably poorly performing backroom since Cathro

 

Would be daft to switch unless the whole operation is changing.

Edited May 29, 2019 by JamboX2

[Absolute Scenes]

1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Yeah, we get it. 

 

No, people don't get it

 

Idiots who throw made up figures and generalise a supports view on the manager have been shown up yet again

 

So this view or idea that "many" hearts fans want Levein out, and there is a huge rumbling in our support about Levein being in charge, is actually is pretty false 

 

Whether or not its credibility can be questioned is irrelevant - the Poll speaks for itself

 

 

[graygo]

1 hour ago, Who_put_the_ball_in... said:

If you actually read my post I was referring to pre cup final. And the 99% was for effect what I meant was you would struggle to find someone that wanted him in. ?end

 

WTAF?

 

 

[jbee647]

Just now, martoon said:

 

Not in my circles, he doesn't. Family, friends, pubs before and after games and the overall consensus seems the same: he should be removed. I genuinely haven't spoken to a fellow Jambo who is happy about the way things are going.

 

He does still seem to have the respect of the majority, based on his playing career and his first managerial stint, but many are, to say the least, disgruntled.

I’ve not heard any genuine Hearts fan say they are happy with Levein, many long standing good Hearts people are at the end of there patience, and are now looking for change.

Who are these fans who are satisfied with the current malaise, I have genuinely not spoken to any, even in the aftermath of Saturdays emotionally charged occasion I never heard any call he should continue in charge 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 hour ago, Sir Gio said:

Only if a significant upgrade and doesn't jeopardise the infrastructure that is beginning to show signs of growth. 

 

So probably a no. Come back in October 

 

What happens in October?

[martoon]

2 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

He also managed to squeeze a number of consecutively high level performances out of the same team at the start of the campaign. The litmus test is the League Cup and opening 11 games. If we start in the same form as last campaign it is quite conclusive that the injuries destroyed last season. If we start as we ended it would be quite concerning and would suggest a deeper issue.

 

I hope you're right. I'd love Craig Levein to prove me and other doubters wrong. I'm not a hater and I've never been disrespectful toward him on this site or in real life but I just don't believe he is the way forward for our club. He's spent the last 2/3 proving it, for me anyway, yet still we plough on regardless.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

The answer to this is yes, btw.

[Bazzas right boot]

18 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

 

The outstanding candidate has just taken the Scotland job so it’s a no from me too.

 

 

Yip, Clarke was the stand out possibly in our range. 

 

 

[martoon]

2 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

I’ve not heard any genuine Hearts fan say they are happy with Levein, many long standing good Hearts people are at the end of there patience, and are now looking for change.

Who are these fans who are satisfied with the current malaise, I have genuinely not spoken to any, even in the aftermath of Saturdays emotionally charged occasion I never heard any call he should continue in charge 

 

Same experience. "Thanks for the effort, but time to go" appeared to be universal opinion on the train journey home.

[Ron Burgundy]

10 minutes ago, Absolute Scenes said:

 

that's funny...by that logic it means that 47% of thread readers are Hibs fans, so effectively nearly half of kickbackers on here are hibbies?

 

Is that what you are saying?

No but you knew that.

Some Hearts fans will want him to stay.

Every Hibs fan will also want him to stay.

[gedster]

Please go. No more embarrassing tactics or performances in such regularity again from the Team . New manager with new ideas required

[Bull's-eye]

Always find it amusing when posters bring up the thoughts of others when posting on here.

 

"Nobody in ma street wants him to stay" like gibberish. 

 

It's like a good amount on here can't actually think for themselves. 

[Bridge of Djoum]

7 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

WTAF?

 

 

Right? Backtracking and bullshit. 

[Absolute Scenes]

Just now, Ron Burgundy said:

No but you knew that.

Some Hearts fans will want him to stay.

Every Hibs fan will also want him to stay.

 

Why would every Hibs fan want him to stay? We've actually not lost more Hibs games than we've won against them - in fact its pretty even (lost 3 won 3 if I remember correctly)

 

If it was the case he was losing every Derby, and by some margin, I'd imagine they'd be happy for him to stay - deep down Hibs fans hate him being our manager

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, Artful Dodger said:

Always find it amusing when posters bring up the thoughts of others when posting on here.

 

"Nobody in ma street wants him to stay" like gibberish. 

 

It's like a good amount on here can't actually think for themselves. 

 

 

I just picture folk agreeing with themselves in the mirror, then

 

"ma mates all agree with me" 

[Bridge of Djoum]

2 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

No but you knew that.

Some Hearts fans will want him to stay.

Every Hibs fan will also want him to stay.

FFS. Way to cover your back there. If a majority of fans here want CL to stay, It’s only because the results are skewed by Hibs fans. 

 

Proper levels of delusion there. 

[Ron Burgundy]

1 minute ago, Absolute Scenes said:

 

Why would every Hibs fan want him to stay? We've actually not lost more Hibs games than we've won against them - in fact its pretty even (lost 3 won 3 if I remember correctly)

 

If it was the case he was losing every Derby, and by some margin, I'd imagine they'd be happy for him to stay - deep down Hibs fans hate him being our manager

I would love Hibs to employ a manager who had never experienced winning something in a playing/managerial career spanning around 40 odd years.

[Ron Burgundy]

1 minute ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

FFS. Way to cover your back there. If a majority of fans here want CL to stay, It’s only because the results are skewed by Hibs fans. 

 

Proper levels of delusion there. 

Post a pic or type 99 a few times.

Not delusional as I actually attend games.

Stick to your attempts at comedy.

[JamboGraham]

7 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

I’ve not heard any genuine Hearts fan say they are happy with Levein.

 

Nor have I, everyone knows that 6th place is not good enough for our club.

 

The question isn't are you happy with Levein; it's should the club appoint a new 1st team manager in the close season.

 

It is possible to be unhappy at present with Levein but still hold the opinion that he can improve results and performance next season.

 

 

[NaturalOrder74]

Hibs only want him to stay cos having an even amount of wins with us is the best they’ve been in decades 

[Bridge of Djoum]

1 minute ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Post a pic or type 99 a few times.

Not delusional as I actually attend games.

Stick to your attempts at comedy.

I’ll stick to the plain facts. You deal with your own issues. 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Nor have I, everyone knows that 6th place is not good enough for our club.

 

The question isn't are you happy with Levein; it's should the club appoint a new 1st team manager in the close season.

 

It is possible to be unhappy at present with Levein but still hold the opinion that he can improve results and performance next season.

 

 

 

 

Nah. 

A new coach guarantees success. 

Current coaches can't take time to build something. Never work. 

 

 

 

[Bongo 1874]

8 minutes ago, Absolute Scenes said:

 

Why would every Hibs fan want him to stay? We've actually not lost more Hibs games than we've won against them - in fact its pretty even (lost 3 won 3 if I remember correctly)

 

If it was the case he was losing every Derby, and by some margin, I'd imagine they'd be happy for him to stay - deep down Hibs fans hate him being our manager

I agree with some of your points but i have to add the fact hibs have finished above us two seasons in a row and that really gets at me knowing we have a bigger budget than them and Kilmarnock etc personally speaking it is not good enough. 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Bongo 1874

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

15 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

What happens in October?

Top of the league or bottom of it, one full round of games. Mind you maybe should have sacked him last October?

[kimosavi]

21 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Not in my circles, he doesn't. Family, friends, pubs before and after games and the overall consensus seems the same: he should be removed. I genuinely haven't spoken to a fellow Jambo who is happy about the way things are going.

 

He does still seem to have the respect of the majority, based on his playing career and his first managerial stint, but many are, to say the least, disgruntled.

Same in my circle they all want him gone and wont renew until then 

 

One decent performance against a sub standard neil lennon Celtic won't make up for the weeks and weeks of frustration coming away from tynecastle on matchday 

[graygo]

6 minutes ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Nor have I, everyone knows that 6th place is not good enough for our club.

 

The question isn't are you happy with Levein; it's should the club appoint a new 1st team manager in the close season.

 

It is possible to be unhappy at present with Levein but still hold the opinion that he can improve results and performance next season.

 

 

 

Now there's a message that might resound with some, although I doubt it.

[vegas-voss]

Yes but only if it was a top candidate who has came through a proper interview process.I think Levein should stay on as Academy director.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

10 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Top of the league or bottom of it, one full round of games. Mind you maybe should have sacked him last October?

 

Kind of think though - if you're sacking him in October, should the answer to the question in this poll not have been yes?

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

So its not 99% then, very close to half and half.

 

End of the day he isn't going anywhere especially not on these figures.

 

Ranters and sycophants will continue to bash on, for the likes of myself, guess I just have to wait and see now what next season brings. I don't have a crystal ball, some of the play was pretty special up to the point of Naismith demise, I am going to guess the start might be ok, especially with a couple of additions and the young lads adding a bit.

 

Not going to get excited or carried away though, not until March earliest

 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

Kind of think though - if you're sacking him in October, should the answer to the question in this poll not have been yes?

See my last post above this one

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

6 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

See my last post above this one

 

Fair enough.

[Inch Hearts]

4 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

So its not 99% then, very close to half and half.

 

End of the day he isn't going anywhere especially not on these figures.

 

Ranters and sycophants will continue to bash on, for the likes of myself, guess I just have to wait and see now what next season brings. I don't have a crystal ball, some of the play was pretty special up to the point of Naismith demise, I am going to guess the start might be ok, especially with a couple of additions and the young lads adding a bit.

 

Not going to get excited or carried away though, not until March earliest

 

 

Our support is massively split with the majority wanting the manager gone.  It’s nothing to gloat about because generally unless it’s me, when the manager loses the support they never gain it back.  

[Martin_T]

Haven't voted in the poll, as although I'm closer to the CLexiteer end of the debate, I still have a lot of respect for CL for his service to the club as player and manager.

 

That said, we are in an unprecedented period of off pitch stability for the club and it has not been translated into on pitch performance. Any other Hearts head coach/manager who had two successive 6th place finishes, with the relative resource available, would at very least be under severe pressure or most likely, would have been sacked. Style of play is a criticism leveled at most managers at one time or another, however fans will accept pragmatism if the team is winning, we've recently had a combination of dreadful football and dreadful results.

 

I think there has to be a separation of duties between a Director of Football and Head Coach, one individual cannot do both, as there is no counterbalance for example in player recruitment. So if CL is to stay, he either should do one role or the other, if he becomes DoF again, I feel the Head Coach role should be filled externally, again to achieve that degree of separation.

 

There also doesn't seem to be, a huge list of viable alternatives as things stand, although should there be a vacancy, it may surprise us as to the caliber of candidates who would express interest. 

 

[Coco]

5 years in I hope the Board are looking at the overall football operations and will see it is time for change.

 

First team poor performance for 2 seasons should mean the manager and all coaches go.  On the DoF side - Supposed strategies of boot room succession and player continuity ditched.  Poor net transfer income and ridiculous player turnover.  No young players sold or established in the first team after 5 years (the best 2 young players this season developed at Rangers and Celtic - of those Cochrane hardly played and Hickey had 2 games).  Diminishing crowds due to the rubbish on the pitch.  Questionable man management of fringe players.

 

Time for a fresh start.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

Fair enough.

Just not convinced either way if I am being honest. Do I think there is better out there yes, would they fit our business, do we want to change our business. This is just not as clearcut and black and white as I would prefer.

 

The DoF thing has really muddied the waters, however if I'm being honest, I think that's a role he is pretty decent at. Interference then is the insinuation or perception in everything else, that's not going to go whilst he is there. But if he left that post, then I doubt we would replace him easily or indeed by someone who remotely cared. And the fact that he does care is his saving grace.....for now

[Inch Hearts]

12 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

Yes but only if it was a top candidate who has came through a proper interview process.I think Levein should stay on as Academy director.

 

Thats the same as me. Which thinking about it really means:

 

Yes, it only a top candidate was chosen based on managerial qualities and not because he fits in with how Craig Levein runs the football side of things.  That kind of spells out to me there’s a massive problem. 

[AlphonseCapone]

1 hour ago, Le Chat said:

With a heavy heart, as I genuinely do like Craig Levein, it's a "Yes" from me.

 

He's too negative for me and, despite our injuries this season, he should have got more out of what we had left.  Dundee made us look like diddies at Tynie FFS.  And they weren't the only ones.

 

 

This. I've flip flopped a lot over it but I'm slightly leaning towards he should go so I've voted yes. However, I don't know who we get in, none of the names that get banded about fill me with confidence. 

[Ray Gin]

2 hours ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

No, but if there was an outstanding candidate then yes. 

 

 

Making the change to Hartley, Pressley, Robbo, McCann, Wright, Sergio or a journey man English manager is not for me. 

 

 

This

[vegas-voss]

1 minute ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

Thats the same as me. Which thinking about it really means:

 

Yes, it only a top candidate was chosen based on managerial qualities and not because he fits in with how Craig Levein runs the football side of things.  That kind of spells out to me there’s a massive problem. 

Aye needs new ideas not just the same ideas

[Inch Hearts]

2 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

Haven't voted in the poll, as although I'm closer to the CLexiteer end of the debate, I still have a lot of respect for CL for his service to the club as player and manager.

 

That said, we are in an unprecedented period of off pitch stability for the club and it has not been translated into on pitch performance. Any other Hearts head coach/manager who had two successive 6th place finishes, with the relative resource available, would at very least be under severe pressure or most likely, would have been sacked. Style of play is a criticism leveled at most managers at one time or another, however fans will accept pragmatism if the team is winning, we've recently had a combination of dreadful football and dreadful results.

 

I think there has to be a separation of duties between a Director of Football and Head Coach, one individual cannot do both, as there is no counterbalance for example in player recruitment. So if CL is to stay, he either should do one role or the other, if he becomes DoF again, I feel the Head Coach role should be filled externally, again to achieve that degree of separation.

 

There also doesn't seem to be, a huge list of viable alternatives as things stand, although should there be a vacancy, it may surprise us as to the caliber of candidates who would express interest. 

 

 

I don’t think Craig would take a less influencial role than he had before becoming manager.

 

New manager would have to fit in, fit into what I’ve no idea though because very little clues are given as to what kind of manager Levein wanted before they told us they had the best candidate all along. 

[Walter Bishop]

There is no doubt we need a new manager with fresh ideas. It doesn't look like it is going to happen. 

 

People changing their mind based on a defeat in a cup final though. 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Walter Bishop

[HighTimes]

Christ, yes.  Poor season packed with terrible football and coaching incompetence.  Players getting worse, not better, and an a=inability from our manager to change tactics, no matter what. 

[Des Lynam]

Although I’ve voted no if I owned the club he would have been sacked for allowing hibs to finish above us. 

[Whatever]

No. He should remain.

 

 

[It should have been ten]

Levein ooters/ haters -

 

Have as many poll’s as you like, start as many ‘Levein oot’ threads as you like. He’s staying so maybe try getting behind the man and the team rather than wasting your time repeating yourselves day in, day out by infesting the forum with the usual tears and snotters.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by It should have been ten

[JamboFever]

I voted no to replacing the manager now, and here's why:

 

Levein is not a 'bad' manager, but is clearly not as flexible and tactically agile as we would like.  What disappointed me most about this season was that when injuries decimated both the first team squad and any momentum we were building in the autumn we went into a necessarily defensive shell from which we never emerged once the personnel situation improved.  A good bit of the responsibility for that has to lie with the coaching team, who should have had a critical mission to rediscover our early season attacking intent and fluency of passing and with it the results that took us to the top of the league.

 

Personally I don't think that failure is sufficient to warrant kicking Craig back upstairs just yet.  Back to back 6th place finishes don't sit well with any of us, but it's worth remembering that there were very different reasons for each.  The first was a desperate rearguard action to minimise and partially recover from the horrible impact of the Cathro era in personnel and performance terms which was taking us to the wrong end of the bottom six.  This season injuries ripped the arse out of it mid-season and we simply didn't manage to recover to anything like our potential performance levels.

 

Next season is the last chance saloon, I think.  Some judicious recruitment in key areas, probably 4 or 5 players, maximising the impact of the really promising youth we have (Cochrane, Hickey, Smith and Irving in particular) and maintaining consistently high levels of performance across the majority of the season should be an acceptable minimum baseline.  From that could (and maybe should) follow a challenge for 3rd in the league and more semis / finals.  Anne Budge has a key role here.  She needs to set the bar high and hold Craig to account if he can't take the team to that level, not in 3 or 4 or 5 years, but next year.  No excuses.

 

 

[martoon]

18 minutes ago, kimosavi said:

Same in my circle they all want him gone and wont renew until then 

 

One decent performance against a sub standard neil lennon Celtic won't make up for the weeks and weeks of frustration coming away from tynecastle on matchday 

 

Aye. 

 

And even my imaginary friends and acquaintances feel this way. Particularly the handsome bugger who lives in my mirror. 

[Jamhammer]

I'm a yes but if there was an either way I'm happy enough option. I'd probably have gone for that.

[It should have been ten]

2 minutes ago, JamboFever said:

I voted no to replacing the manager now, and here's why:

 

Levein is not a 'bad' manager, but is clearly not as flexible and tactically agile as we would like.  What disappointed me most about this season was that when injuries decimated both the first team squad and any momentum we were building in the autumn we went into a necessarily defensive shell from which we never emerged once the personnel situation improved.  A good bit of the responsibility for that has to lie with the coaching team, who should have had a critical mission to rediscover our early season attacking intent and fluency of passing and with it the results that took us to the top of the league.

 

Personally I don't think that failure is sufficient to warrant kicking Craig back upstairs just yet.  Back to back 6th place finishes don't sit well with any of us, but it's worth remembering that there were very different reasons for each.  The first was a desperate rearguard action to minimise and partially recover from the horrible impact of the Cathro era in personnel and performance terms which was taking us to the wrong end of the bottom six.  This season injuries ripped the arse out of it mid-season and we simply didn't manage to recover to anything like our potential performance levels.

 

Next season is the last chance saloon, I think.  Some judicious recruitment in key areas, probably 4 or 5 players, maximising the impact of the really promising youth we have (Cochrane, Hickey, Smith and Irving in particular) and maintaining consistently high levels of performance across the majority of the season should be an acceptable minimum baseline.  From that could (and maybe should) follow a challenge for 3rd in the league and more semis / finals.  Anne Budge has a key role here.  She needs to set the bar high and hold Craig to account if he can't take the team to that level, not in 3 or 4 or 5 years, but next year.  No excuses.

 

 

 

Good post, well put