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AlphonseCapone
29 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Players lacking commitment and application don’t usually amass 12 yellow cards over a season. That number of bookings is usually a sign of a playing fighting for the team and being involved in a significant amount of the game.

 

As a general rule aye. But Djoum picks up as many bookings because some of his challenges are ridiculously bad, not nasty, just awfully timed. It's neither here nor there in regard to his ability. Scholes was notoriously bad at tackling. 

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Just now, Mr Elwood P said:

 

The same reason that you would invest in a team to win or a player to score - value. The investments were largely a success so not sure why you hope the investment was small? Not sure being completely oblivious to what Djoum brings to the team is 'in the best interests of Hearts'?

So what did you invest, and what was the success?

 

 

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oh ah grantona

5 to 6k a week for some of our players 

Get heads out clouds FFS 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/revealed-what-hibs-and-hearts-pay-in-wages-and-salaries-1-4624790/amp

 

That's 2017!! I'd be surprised if anyone at club is over 3-4k a week 

 

 

Total staff costs in 2017 account just over £5m 

 

Last accounts 2018 just over £7m that's total staff costs so everyone employed I'd imagine and that might include bonuses. People think that 2 players are taking 500k of that yearly budget up 

Edited by oh ah grantona
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9 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

Great point, a more effective but less skilled/ technical player might be the answer at our level.

 

Callaghan( sp) was one that I think we treid of that ilk, he had a great knack of getting forward, he was just far too poor technically for the top flight.

 

However, Djoum with Bryson, Naismith, Walker might make us a more refined side and improve us overall.

That is the challenge for a  side like us I guess, getting a team of refined, more technical players so we see the benefits of it as a team.

Having one or two isn't always effective as they get brought down or look lost, having 7/8 is.

 

 

Absolutely agree and hope we can get to that level across the board and I think we are on the right track to doing so.

 

However, I wasn't so much criticising us for a lack of refinery but our league as a whole. As we've seen with the supposed EPL 'stars' (has beens) that have come up to Celtic and Ramgers in recent years the sheer hectic nature of our league makes it hard for them to play. Blood and thunder is the name of the game here and even with 7 or 8 players of Djoum's calibre it can still be hard to play their game against a team like Hamilton who will sit in, close you down straight away and kick lumps out of you...all whilst you adapt to playing on their world of soccer pitch.

 

Hopefully we can overcome that and get people with the patience and nous to break them down anyway. Burley figured out how to do just that with a balance of brutality (brellier) and the elegance of our wingers and forwards.

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Not sure why these talks take so long. You offer what he's worth to the club and he accepts or moves on....!

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Mr Elwood P
7 minutes ago, H2 said:

So what did you invest, and what was the success?

 

 

 

He was 3/1 to receive a booking in the Scottish Cup final, fairly typical price. I focused largely on games against the bigger teams, using the website below. The bookmakers are often slow to realise patterns in Scottish markets. He was 10/3 to get booked at Tynecastle against Aberdeen which is a crazy considering the first Hearts v Aberdeen game produced 11 cards. Going to miss him if he goes. 

 

https://us.soccerway.com/players/arnaud-sutchuin-djum/13220/

Edited by Mr Elwood P
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Bazzas right boot
1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

Absolutely agree and hope we can get to that level across the board and I think we are on the right track to doing so.

 

However, I wasn't so much criticising us for a lack of refinery but our league as a whole. As we've seen with the supposed EPL 'stars' (has beens) that have come up to Celtic and Ramgers in recent years the sheer hectic nature of our league makes it hard for them to play. Blood and thunder is the name of the game here and even with 7 or 8 players of Djoum's calibre it can still be hard to play their game against a team like Hamilton who will sit in, close you down straight away and kick lumps out of you...all whilst you adapt to playing on their world of soccer pitch.

 

Hopefully we can overcome that and get people with the patience and nous to break them down anyway. Burley figured out how to do just that with a balance of brutality (brellier) and the elegance of our wingers and forwards.

 

 

Yeah, I got your point about the League completely. 

 

 

I agree 100%.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

He was 3/1 to receive a booking in the Scottish Cup final, fairly typical price. I focused largely on games against the bigger teams, using the website below. The bookmakers are often slow to realise patterns in Scottish markets. He was 10/3 to get booked at Tynecastle against Aberdeen which is a crazy considering the first Hearts v Aberdeen game produced 11 cards. Going to miss him if he goes. 

 

https://us.soccerway.com/players/arnaud-sutchuin-djum/13220/

PMSL, putting money on at a bookie is an investment, well for you maybe certainly not for Hearts. Now I can see the real reason you like him, he makes you money for his inept challenges.! Ah well good luck, you can follow him to his next club to look after your investment.

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2 hours ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

Great point, a more effective but less skilled/ technical player might be the answer at our level.

 

Callaghan( sp) was one that I think we treid of that ilk, he had a great knack of getting forward, he was just far too poor technically for the top flight.

 

However, Djoum with Bryson, Naismith, Walker might make us a more refined side and improve us overall.

That is the challenge for a  side like us I guess, getting a team of refined, more technical players so we see the benefits of it as a team.

Having one or two isn't always effective as they get brought down or look lost, having 7/8 is.

 

 

Wonder if Pittman could be the answer for what we're trying to get Djoum to do?

 

Lad has some engine on him and probably wouldn't cost too much. To have midfielders in our team that have the engine to press for 90 minutes would be phenomenal IMO.

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Bazzas right boot
Just now, OTT said:

 

Wonder if Pittman could be the answer for what we're trying to get Djoum to do?

 

Lad has some engine on him and probably wouldn't cost too much. To have midfielders in our team that have the engine to press for 90 minutes would be phenomenal IMO.

 

 

That Hardie is the type of player as well that seems to excel at this level.

 

Depends on our ambition tho as well, I'd like us to go for footballers, get the right mix and maybe punch above our weight for a season or two.

 

These types of players are good for 3rd, but never going to break that ceiling or compete well in Europe. 

Fans want to see instant results tho so who knows what is right for a club with our budget.

 

Players like Tzlois ( sp) and Goncalves as well fit that bill, similar to Djoum. Should be better than most but sometimes just don't get there for whatever reason, I agree with Taffin, you need 7/8 of these players in the team not 3/4 for it to work properly.

 

 

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Djoum often takes bookings for the team.  anyone that can't see that knows little about football.  all those bookings and only 1 red card (caused by a slip).  if our manager wanted him to stop making those challenges I'm sure he would....

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I’d say Djoum is a battler.

 

I think our league has kind of lowered his skill levels because he has to battle so much.

 

His strike against Hibs. His footwork and skill in that Motherwell move. His form in the 3 or 4 games before Neilson succumbed to the plane boys.

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3 hours ago, HopeDiouf said:

Djoum often takes bookings for the team.  anyone that can't see that knows little about football.  all those bookings and only 1 red card (caused by a slip).  if our manager wanted him to stop making those challenges I'm sure he would....

Are you sure about that?

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Mr Elwood P
5 hours ago, H2 said:

PMSL, putting money on at a bookie is an investment, well for you maybe certainly not for Hearts. Now I can see the real reason you like him, he makes you money for his inept challenges.! Ah well good luck, you can follow him to his next club to look after your investment.

 

Of course it’s an investment. Anything you do with money to make more money is an investment. Buy property, buy stocks, proper gambling, bitcoin, antiques, even collecting stamps or coins with a view to increasing their value. 

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2 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Of course it’s an investment. Anything you do with money to make more money is an investment. Buy property, buy stocks, proper gambling, bitcoin, antiques, even collecting stamps or coins with a view to increasing their value. 

PMSL, you interpret gambling anyway you want, I'm sure the bookies very much appreciate your investments. You're not a Financial adviser are you??

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Mr Elwood P
5 minutes ago, H2 said:

PMSL, you interpret gambling anyway you want, I'm sure the bookies very much appreciate your investments. You're not a Financial adviser are you??

 

The same disparaging attitude that saw many lose out on millions by dismissing BitCoin. Have a look around Twitter, you’ll be amazed.

 

 

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58 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

The same disparaging attitude that saw many lose out on millions by dismissing BitCoin. Have a look around Twitter, you’ll be amazed.

 

 

I know about Bitcoin ?, I'm not amazed, but you don't get Bitcoin at Ladbrokes. 

Are you a Politician? You've still not told us about your "success", or do the bookies still appreciate your investment in their profits?:munny:

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Mr Elwood P
5 minutes ago, H2 said:

I know about Bitcoin ?, I'm not amazed, but you don't get Bitcoin at Ladbrokes. 

Are you a Politician? You've still not told us about your "success", or do the bookies still appreciate your investment in their profits?:munny:

 

I have, you just haven’t been paying attention. 

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/conanm123?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

 

A good place to start if you want to be amazed.

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Unknown user
9 hours ago, Taffin said:

I really like Djoum as a player and think he is really talented.

 

One thing I always felt was that he was maybe a bit of a journeyman who didn't car much or identify with the club. Recent interviews with him have changed my opinion a bit on that and seeing his reaction at full time in the cup final made me see him in another light. He cares.

 

That said, I wouldn't pay him a huge amount as I think in our league we'd be better served with a less skillful battler paired up with someone who can offer more in attack than Djoum does. I think he could play at a higher level in a more 'refined' league but that doesn't necessarily represent value for money for us.

Last paragraph I agree with 100% but didn't realise till I read it, good summary 

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6 hours ago, Jambomb said:

It’s amazing the Djoum book of excuses here!

 

? no excuses, good player not appreciated

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pettigrewsstylist

I dont think we have had value for our expenditure on this deal.

He would clearly be off if something better came along.

He has been a key part of the least creative midfield i have ever seen at the club since i started attending in 1978.

Dont agree with trying to re-sign him. Hope it falls through.

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Leveins Battalion

Djoum is alright,not poor not great,falls very much into the forgettable category,I wont be overly bothered if he goes as I think we can get better for what we need I wish him all the best though and thank him for his efforts.

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Djoum is probably our best midfielder but that is almost the counter point to the whole argument for keeping him, he is systemic of our current issues. 

Yes he keeps it neat and tidy, yes he offers some solidity but he absolutely never takes a game by the scruff, he slows the game down and offers little in the final third. 

His forward pass in the final was the best ball he played all season, but we waited all season for that. 

 

Good player but not what we need, thanks for the meh and hope you get a decent contract elsewhere 

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Robbo-Jambo
23 hours ago, Jammy T said:

I’d say Djoum is a battler.

 

I think our league has kind of lowered his skill levels because he has to battle so much.

 

His strike against Hibs. His footwork and skill in that Motherwell move. His form in the 3 or 4 games before Neilson succumbed to the plane boys.

Agree. 

 

His skill level has decreased over time with us. 

 

He is now more defensive and tries to dictate play hence his goal threat and tally have dropped. 

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I don't understand how anyone can say he's the best midfielder at our club when we have Peter Haring. Djoum hasn't been what he could have been when he first joined. His first 6 months he was unstoppable, then Afcon* happened and he started playing defensively and distinctly more average. His game in the final was about the best I've saw him play since he first joined. 

 

He's worth keeping, but not at the sort of figures quoted. Slightly improved contract in recognition of his length of time here and no more. Anymore than that and we're overpaying. If someone wants to blow us out the water, then crack on. Let them waste their money.

 

Edit: Just did a sense check and those 6 months I was talking about was actually 2 years. 

 

****. 

Edited by OTT
Lost 2 years
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Thanks Arnaud and good luck, it is time for us to move on, we need to build a midfield for the future, there are plenty players out there along with young players that should be coming through, developing into squad players. AD moving on does not need to hurt us, it should be seen as an opportunity.

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41 minutes ago, Robbo-Jambo said:

Agree. 

 

His skill level has decreased over time with us. 

 

He is now more defensive and tries to dictate play hence his goal threat and tally have dropped. 

 

Agreed. Another more attack minded Manager will get the best out of Djoum.

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Roland Rat

Been part of a Hearts midfield that has woefully under achieved for 3 years now. I would suggest it's time to move in a different direction for player and club 

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Roland Rat
On 03/06/2019 at 15:26, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

Great point, a more effective but less skilled/ technical player might be the answer at our level.

 

Callaghan( sp) was one that I think we treid of that ilk, he had a great knack of getting forward, he was just far too poor technically for the top flight.

 

However, Djoum with Bryson, Naismith, Walker might make us a more refined side and improve us overall.

That is the challenge for a  side like us I guess, getting a team of refined, more technical players so we see the benefits of it as a team.

Having one or two isn't always effective as they get brought down or look lost, having 7/8 is.

 

Bryson and Naismith are both 32 and Walker has no legs whatsoever at 26 

 

We need more guys with pace and industry like Mulraney and Edwards in my view. Both may have limitations technically but endeavour gets you a long way in the Scottish game 

 

We are so lacking in mobility and energy in the middle of the park. Djoum has been part of a team which has consistently under achieved for years 

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Bazzas right boot
2 minutes ago, Roland Rat said:

Bryson and Naismith are both 32 and Walker has no legs whatsoever at 26 

 

We need more guys with pace and industry like Mulraney and Edwards in my view. Both may have limitations technically but endeavour gets you a long way in the Scottish game 

 

We are so lacking in mobility and energy in the middle of the park. Djoum has been part of a team which has consistently under achieved for years 

 

 

Age? 

If they're good enough, it does not matter. It's a stupid point to make. 

 

You do need balance, and I'm in no way saying we shouldn’t have some pace, but in the centre of midfield pace is not that important across the board. 

 

Djoum is a far better player than Edwards individually, I'm not even debating that. 

The attitude of "run about a lot and the Jobs  a good one" holds Scotland back. 

We need more than just that. 

 

Maybe have Sammon and Reilly(sp?) up front with Edwards behind - three good honest pros that run about a lot. 

Sure that would go down well?

 

The team has underachieved, not just the midfield, doesn't mean we shouldn't try and keep our best players and build by adding more quality. 

You can't rip up an entire team every year. 

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Roland Rat
1 minute ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

Age? 

If they're good enough, it does not matter. It's a stupid point to make. 

 

You do need balance, and I'm in no way saying we shouldn’t have some pace, but in the centre of midfield pace is not that important across the board. 

 

Djoum is a far better player than Edwards individually, I'm not even debating that. 

The attitude of "run about a lot and the Jobs  a good one" holds Scotland back. 

We need more than just that. 

 

Maybe have Sammon and Reilly(sp?) up front with Edwards behind - three good honest pros that run about a lot. 

Sure that would go down well?

 

The team has underachieved, not just the midfield, doesn't mean we shouldn't try and keep our best players and build by adding more quality. 

You can't rip up an entire team every year. 

You appear a touch confrontational dude.  Keep calm....

 

I never mentioned Sammon or Reilly.  Both horrific signings overseen by Levein as DOF.  In the case of latter he signed off on it against the judgement of the person tasked with scouting him 

 

I'm saying that Mulraney and Edwards give us much needed legs that we have been woefully short of and remain short of within our squad for the most part. I also agree that we can't have such an overhaul of squad numbers each session.  Those in charge of recruitment therefore must do far better 

 

Djoum has touted himself around for most of his time at Hearts. No club has made an offer to buy him during that period which is telling. He's been largely a mainstay of a side which has been pretty rubbish for 3 years now. I'd say we move on as at 30 with a history of injuries I'd say it's a poor investment to seek to retain him. I'd imagine he's offski anyway 

 

I'm not advocating having guys that can "run about like headless chickens". I'm stating my view that at times over the past couple of seasons we've struggling to match sides for endeavour and industry. That's unacceptable. We have often been incredibly pedestrian in midfield in particular 

 

I'm not sure what it says about not using a guy until the final 3 weeks of the season and then give him a cup final start, but that's another discussion 

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Thought I read that some overseas outfit I've never heard of was after him and Lafferty.

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MR INCREDIBLE
On 03/06/2019 at 15:39, Section Q said:

Not sure why these talks take so long. You offer what he's worth to the club and he accepts or moves on....!

Correct.... Shouldn't take long to tell him to p**s off. 

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On 03/06/2019 at 15:26, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

Great point, a more effective but less skilled/ technical player might be the answer at our level.

 

Callaghan( sp) was one that I think we treid of that ilk, he had a great knack of getting forward, he was just far too poor technically for the top flight.

 

However, Djoum with Bryson, Naismith, Walker might make us a more refined side and improve us overall.

That is the challenge for a  side like us I guess, getting a team of refined, more technical players so we see the benefits of it as a team.

Having one or two isn't always effective as they get brought down or look lost, having 7/8 is.

 

 

We need another Ryan Stevenson

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4 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

Thought I read that some overseas outfit I've never heard of was after him and Lafferty.

A club  in Cyprus I believe. They seem to have money to throw about.

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Bazzas right boot
5 minutes ago, Alan_R said:

 

We need another Ryan Stevenson

 

 

Mmm

 

Paul Hartley type please. 

 

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We’ve offered him a new contract and he’s not signed it. He’s now a free agent and looking for a club. I’m sure we’re actively trying to replace him.

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better_call_saul
8 hours ago, Roland Rat said:

You appear a touch confrontational dude.  Keep calm....

 

I never mentioned Sammon or Reilly.  Both horrific signings overseen by Levein as DOF.  In the case of latter he signed off on it against the judgement of the person tasked with scouting him 

 

I'm saying that Mulraney and Edwards give us much needed legs that we have been woefully short of and remain short of within our squad for the most part. I also agree that we can't have such an overhaul of squad numbers each session.  Those in charge of recruitment therefore must do far better 

 

Djoum has touted himself around for most of his time at Hearts. No club has made an offer to buy him during that period which is telling. He's been largely a mainstay of a side which has been pretty rubbish for 3 years now. I'd say we move on as at 30 with a history of injuries I'd say it's a poor investment to seek to retain him. I'd imagine he's offski anyway 

 

I'm not advocating having guys that can "run about like headless chickens". I'm stating my view that at times over the past couple of seasons we've struggling to match sides for endeavour and industry. That's unacceptable. We have often been incredibly pedestrian in midfield in particular 

 

I'm not sure what it says about not using a guy until the final 3 weeks of the season and then give him a cup final start, but that's another discussion 

 

Can't fault much of what you've said there, TBH.

 

I have faith that the scouting system that has brought us in some gems in the past couple of seasons will find another Haring, Naismith or Uche.

 

The money's there to replace Djoum and I back the club to do that. Midfield-wise I expect Haring to be the first name on the team sheet from the start of next season so I would hope that the club would keep that in mind when assessing new recruits, regardless of attributes. Find players to fit into the system we want to play, not players who individually offer X and Y.

 

With regard to Edwards, I think fair play to Levein. He's clearly said to the players that there are places up for grabs and Edwards took his chance, played well against Hibs and Celtic in the league, and got in the team for the final. Can't fault anyone there.

Edited by better_call_saul
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Cruyff Turn
1 hour ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

Mmm

 

Paul Hartley type please. 

 

We’ve got one, Edwards can be that man. 

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Just now, Cruyff Turn said:

We’ve got one, Edwards can be that man. 

 

Edwards has done nothing to suggest he could be anywhere near that level. 

 

The guy ran about for a few weeks with very limited success and  folk seem to be thinking he will be the answer to anything. 

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Roland Rat
1 minute ago, Cruyff Turn said:

We’ve got one, Edwards can be that man. 

A good honest pro who runs about a lot..... seemingly 

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Selkirkhmfc1874
3 minutes ago, bistokid said:

 

Edwards has done nothing to suggest he could be anywhere near that level. 

 

The guy ran about for a few weeks with very limited success and  folk seem to be thinking he will be the answer to anything. 

Limited success? Scored in cup final 

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Roland Rat
Just now, bistokid said:

 

Edwards has done nothing to suggest he could be anywhere near that level. 

 

The guy ran about for a few weeks with very limited success and  folk seem to be thinking he will be the answer to anything. 

I thought Edwards along with Hickey performed very well in the cup final. The inclusion of both, having made 5 appearances between them until that point, does little to dispel the notion that Levein doesn't know his best side come the end of the season 

 

I'm still not quite sure why Edwards was only given a chance in the final few weeks of the season. Only one man knows the answer 

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maidstonejambo
3 minutes ago, Roland Rat said:

I thought Edwards along with Hickey performed very well in the cup final. The inclusion of both, having made 5 appearances between them until that point, does little to dispel the notion that Levein doesn't know his best side come the end of the season 

 

I'm still not quite sure why Edwards was only given a chance in the final few weeks of the season. Only one man knows the answer 

 

Maybe it wasn't just us fans who didn't like him celebrating that St Mirren goal against us...?

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1 minute ago, maidstonejambo said:

Maybe it wasn't just us fans who didn't like him celebrating that St Mirren goal against us...?

 

All he did was like the goal alert on twitter did he not? Presumably because his team mate at the time scored :laugh:

 

Crime of the century - forget the Cup Final goal, the guy liked a St Mirren goal on social media!! :o 

 

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Roland Rat
Just now, maidstonejambo said:

 

Maybe it wasn't just us fans who didn't like him celebrating that St Mirren goal against us...?

You reckon.... I thought he was congratulating a then team mate on a cracking goal regardless of opposition. Depends how sensitive you wish to be I guess 

 

He was very poorly treated from the outset. He has come back and been used in final weeks of the season after being shunned for months and low and behold - he's contributed well to the side 

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