Season Ticket Sales - Half seasons on sale (title updated)

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

41 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

They were incorrectly registered and they were illegal tax wise. Players were paid with no tax deducted. Whatever way you look at it both clubs had players playing for them that they really couldn’t afford. The funds used to pay the players in both cases were fraudulently acquired from banks ie Ukio and HBoS. 

I enjoyed the cup wins as much as anyone else but I’m not blinkered enough to deny they were dodgy in terms of the funding for the squads we had. Interesting that some who have quickly jumped in to disagree have been all over the Sevco thread for years in terms of how they cheated their way to trophies etc. 

Talk about hypocritical. 

Utter bollocks! Contracts never mention how much tax you have to pay but they do have to mention what you ARE paid. If EBTs had been in the playing contracts there wouldn't have been a registration issue.

[graygo]

2 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Charged and court case started then suspended. Currently in recess awaiting his return. Which is unlikely to happen. Dont think there’s any doubt he is guilty, do you? 

 

I wouldn't like to speculate without hearing the full facts.   

 

Edit: Should have kept reading the thread before posting.

Edited May 16, 2019 by graygo

[JamboGraham]

This is advanced level off topic tonight....

[better_call_saul]

 

But seriously, I can’t hum while pinching my nose!

 

Arghhhh

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

I have never mentioned debt. No issues with debt. Business runs in debt. 

They don’t run on fraudulent acquisition of funds to better their business. 

If you don’t know the difference between debt and embezzlement/tax evasion that’s your problem not mine. 

Yeah I know EBTs weren’t against the law, they’re just due to be taxed.https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45322276

Vlad has never been charged by the UK authorities for anything he did whilst in this country, odd considering how much hatred they have for Russian crooks.

He’s innocent until proved guilty, feel free to head over to Hibs.**** or whatever it’s called and chat with other financial and law experts.

[Pasquale for King]

5 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Cool. Personally, I believe in jurisprudence. I've also seen many financial fraud cases that were "sure things" collapse too.

 

Until then, Mr Romanov is an innocent man who is enjoying his retirement. I raise a glass to him and his spending on Heart of Midlothian.

Cheers to that.

Cant find anything that links Hearts specifically to the embezzlement of funds or what it was spent on.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45322276

[Geoff the Mince]

8 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

In my opinion they are both tarnished. 2006 more than 2012. 

Dont get me wrong I enjoyed the victories, players etc as much as anyone. I did BELIEVE for a while. However the rumours were always there. As was the question why he was spending what he was, on us. Turns out the money laundering rumours were indeed true. 

What Vlad did with Ukio’s customers funds is no less worse than SDM and his EBT’s. Both against the law, both fraudulent and both just crooked really. 

Always made me laugh when I saw most of the indignant comments on the mammoth Sevco thread. 

If it wasn't for Ukio's liquidation and subsequently writing off a large chunk of our debt , I very much doubt we would still have a club . 

If Vlad's dodgy dealings helped in thier demise surely from a Hearts supporters view you should feel grateful .

And it was pretty obvious from when he first arrived that he was a crook .

 

 

[Debut 4]

8 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yes, I didn't agree with so many managerial changes and bizarre decisions that were made at the time, interfering in team selections etc. "Stable football departments" don't interest me, too much power conferred to one individual, in our case, and it doesn't work. A first team manager with full control, who will inevitably move on or be moved on. Then we scour the market for the best candidate at that time and so it goes on. Players move on all the time so there's nothing awry about managers doing the same.

 

I’m laughing people are arguing with you. Going to great lengths in a roundabout way to defend the current situation. 

 

The Romanov period was great, unpredictable, sometimes despairing! but overall an eventful period on the pitch, and off, of course. (I’m talking football, not business).

 

His first 4 full seasons in the league while financing Hearts brought finishes of 2,4,8,3.

 

Our first 4 in our ‘stable’ condition in the top flight is 3,5,6,6. 

 

I don’t want us to go through what we did a few years back but it shows decision making, whether skint, overspending or having plentiful, will always be the key.  

[Pasquale for King]

5 hours ago, Geoff the Mince said:

If it wasn't for Ukio's liquidation and subsequently writing off a large chunk of our debt , I very much doubt we would still have a club . 

If Vlad's dodgy dealings helped in thier demise surely from a Hearts supporters view you should feel grateful .

And it was pretty obvious from when he first arrived that he was a crook .

 

 

All true ??

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

I’m laughing people are arguing with you. Going to great lengths in a roundabout way to defend the current situation. 

 

The Romanov period was great, unpredictable, sometimes despairing! but overall an eventful period on the pitch, and off, of course. (I’m talking football, not business).

 

His first 4 full seasons in the league while financing Hearts brought finishes of 2,4,8,3.

 

Our first 4 in our ‘stable’ condition in the top flight is 3,5,6,6. 

 

I don’t want us to go through what we did a few years back but it shows decision making, whether skint, overspending or having plentiful, will always be the key.  

Well said ??

[davemclaren]

14 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

I have never mentioned debt. No issues with debt. Business runs in debt. 

They don’t run on fraudulent acquisition of funds to better their business. 

If you don’t know the difference between debt and embezzlement/tax evasion that’s your problem not mine. 

And you know that the funds he used to finance Hearts were fraudulently acquired? 

[The Old Tolbooth]

2 hours ago, davemclaren said:

And you know that the funds he used to finance Hearts were fraudulently acquired? 

 

This is the bit that I'm struggling to grasp, as far as I can see, everything was affordable until the banking crash, and Vlad, and UBIG in particular, were hit hardest of all when the great crash happened, meaning the arse collapsed out of not just Hearts, but out of pretty much every business under the UBIG umbrella as a whole. These things happen, and this "tainted" pish that's being spouted is words of obsessed Hibs fans used as a massive soothing comfort blanket to hide the fact that they were utterly reamed senseless in 2 trips to Hampden against us. 

[cheetah]

2006 and 2012 tarnished  

[JamboAl]

8 hours ago, Geoff the Mince said:

If it wasn't for Ukio's liquidation and subsequently writing off a large chunk of our debt , I very much doubt we would still have a club . 

If Vlad's dodgy dealings helped in thier demise surely from a Hearts supporters view you should feel grateful .

And it was pretty obvious from when he first arrived that he was a crook .

 

 

5

That might take a bit of explaining.

[JamboAl]

5 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

This is the bit that I'm struggling to grasp, as far as I can see, everything was affordable until the banking crash, and Vlad, and UBIG in particular, were hit hardest of all when the great crash happened, meaning the arse collapsed out of not just Hearts, but out of pretty much every business under the UBIG umbrella as a whole. These things happen, and this "tainted" pish that's being spouted is words of obsessed Hibs fans used as a massive soothing comfort blanket to hide the fact that they were utterly reamed senseless in 2 trips to Hampden against us. 

I don't think it was the banking crash itself so much as the arse falling out of the price of metal.

I may be wrong but didn't Vlad have huge investments in aluminium and that was the base on which the bank was built.  Curiously enough it was about the same time holes started to appear with Rangers/David Murray (Murray International Metals). 

[jambogemz]

24 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

This is the bit that I'm struggling to grasp, as far as I can see, everything was affordable until the banking crash, and Vlad, and UBIG in particular, were hit hardest of all when the great crash happened, meaning the arse collapsed out of not just Hearts, but out of pretty much every business under the UBIG umbrella as a whole. These things happen, and this "tainted" pish that's being spouted is words of obsessed Hibs fans used as a massive soothing comfort blanket to hide the fact that they were utterly reamed senseless in 2 trips to Hampden against us. 

The financial crash was 2008. 

 

The "arse fell out" 5 years later. 

[Whatever]

The only thing ‘tarnished’ after the 2006 and 2012 cup wins was my Liver, tbh.

 

That chat all sounds very Hibernian.

 

I’d do the Vlad years all over again in a feckin heartbeat. ??

[Pasquale for King]

35 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

This is the bit that I'm struggling to grasp, as far as I can see, everything was affordable until the banking crash, and Vlad, and UBIG in particular, were hit hardest of all when the great crash happened, meaning the arse collapsed out of not just Hearts, but out of pretty much every business under the UBIG umbrella as a whole. These things happen, and this "tainted" pish that's being spouted is words of obsessed Hibs fans used as a massive soothing comfort blanket to hide the fact that they were utterly reamed senseless in 2 trips to Hampden against us. 

Indeed. Also the replies take it a step further.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Pasquale for King

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Whatever said:

The only thing ‘tarnished’ after the 2006 and 2012 cup wins was my Liver, tbh.

 

That chat all sounds very Hibernian.

 

I’d do the Vlad years all over again in a feckin heartbeat. ??

???

[Nelly Terraces]

45 minutes ago, cheetah said:

2006 and 2012 tarnished  

Yeah mate, the only things 'tarnished' were the feelings of the vermin at the Gorgie going up to lift 2 trophies. Especially the 2nd time round of course.

 

"Tarnished". Aye OK then.

[cheetah]

3 minutes ago, Nelly Terraces said:

Yeah mate, the only things 'tarnished' were the feelings of the vermin at the Gorgie going up to lift 2 trophies. Especially the 2nd time round of course.

 

"Tarnished". Aye OK then.

 

This place never fails to astound me.

 

******* tarnished indeed  

 

 

[Inch Hearts]

 tarnished.  That’s utter utter bitterness. 

[The Old Tolbooth]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

I don't think it was the banking crash itself so much as the arse falling out of the price of metal.

I may be wrong but didn't Vlad have huge investments in aluminium and that was the base on which the bank was built.  Curiously enough it was about the same time holes started to appear with Rangers/David Murray (Murray International Metals). 

 

Yeah I think you're right with the metals thing, UKIO Bankas was already on its arse by that time. 

 

54 minutes ago, jambogemz said:

The financial crash was 2008. 

 

The "arse fell out" 5 years later. 

 

The crash and the implementations lasted a lot longer than 2008 though mate, I felt it big time in the mortgage market. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

10 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

I’m laughing people are arguing with you. Going to great lengths in a roundabout way to defend the current situation. 

 

The Romanov period was great, unpredictable, sometimes despairing! but overall an eventful period on the pitch, and off, of course. (I’m talking football, not business).

 

His first 4 full seasons in the league while financing Hearts brought finishes of 2,4,8,3.

 

Our first 4 in our ‘stable’ condition in the top flight is 3,5,6,6. 

 

I don’t want us to go through what we did a few years back but it shows decision making, whether skint, overspending or having plentiful, will always be the key.  

Exactly Debut.  It was a great time to be a fan back then. I wouldn't swap those times for the "stable" environment just now. It certainly wasn't a chore going to games back then.

[SMJ_1874]

On 16/05/2019 at 12:32, kimosavi said:

I think he means Ann appointing her brother on the Main stand works. He's a hibee and season ticket holder at the echo dome and subsequently he was the one who mucked up the seat order 

The standard of workmanship in he corporate lounges are very poor namely plumbing, joinery and painting. It was far too rushed. I’m sure the clerk of works was stevie wonder and ray Charles.  It’s terrible that JB was handsomely paid to oversee such poor work. I also know a few other contractors in there that had problems with the contract and not surprisingly this has went over budget. Shambolic really and the programme of works was underestimated and far too short sighted. More money needlessly wasted imo! 

[dode]

Ok dunno if I’m doing this right but vlad was at it from the start we all knew it and that was ok cause we done ok ,until he got bored.  Nothing mentioned previously is new  and only serves to highlight how desperate some folk seem to be to rehash old news to 

we don’t care mate, it was a great time to be a hearts fan never a dull moment until we looked goosed of course but fans rallied and we are still around .As for tainted In case you missed it we were punished by a points deduction for vlads “crime”.

 

Can we agree the reason we went down was due to a Lithuanian bank going to the wall  then it might worth pondering what would have happened to the clubs indebted to HBoS etc without  the government bail out , would the debt owed by other clubs be written off. Theres no guarantee that UK based creditors would have got the deal we got from UBIG

 

Oh back on topic I have yet to speak to a hearts fan who hasn’t or who doesn’t intend to renew.

 

[jr ewing]

10k  seems a nice round number. 

[Guest]

On 16/05/2019 at 10:11, JamboGraham said:

 

Unless it's a direct quote I would treat almost anything produced by a journalist with outright scepticism. For the record since taking charge Clarke has signed 16 players and released 10. This number doesn't include players already on their books being loaned out and/or returning from loan. From the first match squad he selected to the most recent 4 players started both games, a further 4 were included in both squads. Both squads had 18 players.

 

For what its worth here is my view on Clarke. Kilmarnock have managed to sign a manager of truly exceptional quality; quality rarely seen in Scotland and almost never outside of the deep pockets of Celtic (and previously Rangers).

 

For years we have spoken about what it would require for us to make a genuine assault on the Championship. The general answer is we would need an exceptional manager, we would need a period almost entirely clear of injuries and we would need Celtic (and previously Rangers) to perform at a level well below their capability. Whilst we are all beating ourselves up about the fortunes of our own club the dream combination that we talk about has happened for Kilmarnock. (If we accept that Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen collectively are the equivalent of Celtic for us).

 

Manager - Yes, Almost entirely free of injury - Yes, Rivals under par - Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen, Yes. Add in the bonus of horrific injury records at Hibs and Hearts alongside a number of injuries to key players at Aberdeen and Kilmarnock have the perfect environment to take advantage and finish above all of these clubs. No question they still need to take that chance and boy have they done it...and they deserve every plaudit for doing so.

 

Clarke has done a fantastic job. Fully deserved MOTY. However, there's a massive difference between managing a club like Killie with a small fanbase with zero expectations and virtually zero pressure to succeed, and managing a club, like ours, with huge expectations and much greater pressure and scrutiny. In fact, no-one would have batted an eye if Killie had finished bottom 6 in Clarke's two seasons. He would have got praise if that was an improvement on the previous manager.

 

The real test is how Clarke does in his new job. It'll be really interesting to see if he's one of these burns brightly but briefly managers or is genuinely a good manager who can take on different jobs and do well in them all. I have no idea, his coaching background and lack of willingness in the past to take on the top job suggests to me he is a very good coach but somewhat reluctant manager, so how he reacts to pressure will be interesting.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by Guest

[Guest]

3 hours ago, jambogemz said:

The financial crash was 2008. 

 

The "arse fell out" 5 years later. 

 

2008 was the start if you look at the lists of Hearts players in and out season on season after that. We allegedly paid a million or so for Nade and Kingston in 2007/08. Did we pay any money for players after that? Instead we had constant Vlad flu outbreaks and players like Gordon and Berra sold with no investment in the squad. There's absolutely no doubt the financial crash brought Vlad, and so us (and Rangers), down. If it had happened at another time, it would have been clubs like Hibs or Celtic brought to their knees, who in earlier years had way too much debt.

 

It's ridiculous for someone to say our cup wins are tainted. They s are no more tainted than any club with debt in Scotland or anywhere, including CL winners. Most clubs had huge debt back then and many still do. We won the cup in 2012 despite not because of Vlad (maybe unless your view is that Vlad kept us alive by saving Tynecastle, which I agree with). Our final squad contained more homegrown players than Hibs and fewer loanees. It's debatable our wage bill those days was that much higher than the clubs around us anymore.

 

In terms of Vlad being a crook, until he's convicted we can't say. Given the entire global banking structure was found to be crooked, just by being a banker he's heavily implicated. However as every Scottish club owed a lot to these banks, they benefited from the whole corrupt system that then collapsed in 2008, with clubs like Hibs and Aberdeen having to do deals with banks and/or donors to clear their bank debt.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Guest

[portobellojambo1]

4 hours ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

This is the bit that I'm struggling to grasp, as far as I can see, everything was affordable until the banking crash, and Vlad, and UBIG in particular, were hit hardest of all when the great crash happened, meaning the arse collapsed out of not just Hearts, but out of pretty much every business under the UBIG umbrella as a whole. These things happen, and this "tainted" pish that's being spouted is words of obsessed Hibs fans used as a massive soothing comfort blanket to hide the fact that they were utterly reamed senseless in 2 trips to Hampden against us. 

 

In terms of Romanov's involvement with the club I believe it started to tail off from when the FSA (now the FCA) let him know what was involved in opening a branch of Ukio Bankas in Edinburgh. He wasn't looking to open anything which would be regulated, he was looking to open a branch of his bank here, and I suspect it was fortunate it never happened, and it was probably best money wasn't moving through it. Truth is, I think part of the problem was it was difficult to ever determine where the money was coming from, where it was sourced, which of the component companies under his business umbrella it actually belonged to. The one thing I'm convinced of is that none of the money appearing was coming from him personally, and by that I mean his personal accounts. The amounts we were told were in his accounts when he took over the club were still in his accounts, in off shore Caribbean locations, when he eventually appeared in Russia, after making a detour via Chechnya if I remember correctly. As far as it is possible to track it does seem that those left in the worst position were those who had investment in UKIO Bankas and UBIG, and it seemed a large number of those were people who didn't have a clue who HMFC were. I think it is reasonable to say that if everything had went tits up due to the banking crash that would have been something that Romanov would have been able to explain and evidence in court and he wouldn't have had to do a bunk from Lithuania and pay for East European henchmen to provide armed support while he tried to establish himself back in the USSR. Mind you, what the feck any of this has got to do with the present total of ST sales for the coming season is way beyond me.

[Guest]

On 15/05/2019 at 06:24, Enzo Chiefo said:

As was the case when Cathro was dismissed? If we knew we would have to endure 2 years of Levein then we would have been aswell giving Cathro more time. At least he wanted to adopt a passing game and may well have got it right after a couple of transfer windows.  

 

Why would Levein appoint a head coach who wants to play a passing game? I though Levein was a hoofball loving dinosaur who lives for making our eyes bleed?

[kimosavi]

3 hours ago, Saughton Jambo said:

The standard of workmanship in he corporate lounges are very poor namely plumbing, joinery and painting. It was far too rushed. I’m sure the clerk of works was stevie wonder and ray Charles.  It’s terrible that JB was handsomely paid to oversee such poor work. I also know a few other contractors in there that had problems with the contract and not surprisingly this has went over budget. Shambolic really and the programme of works was underestimated and far too short sighted. More money needlessly wasted imo! 

Aye i know some guys that i use whom had major issues with those in charge no sure if it was directly with JB but it's an ongoing dispute im led to believe, having seen some of the work myself it looks rough and rushed. Unfortunately thats what you can get with site work and subbies, these guys just dont care. As long as they pick up their wage with minimum effort 

[tcjambo]

7 hours ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

This is the bit that I'm struggling to grasp, as far as I can see, everything was affordable until the banking crash, and Vlad, and UBIG in particular, were hit hardest of all when the great crash happened, meaning the arse collapsed out of not just Hearts, but out of pretty much every business under the UBIG umbrella as a whole. These things happen, and this "tainted" pish that's being spouted is words of obsessed Hibs fans used as a massive soothing comfort blanket to hide the fact that they were utterly reamed senseless in 2 trips to Hampden against us. 

UBIG and UKIO shareholders were the main losers from Vlad's activities. That's part of the risk of being a shareholder. In TTFKR it was systematic tax evasion to finance that despicable shower. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Why would Levein appoint a head coach who wants to play a passing game? I though Levein was a hoofball loving dinosaur who lives for making our eyes bleed?

You tell me. Have you watched us this season?

[mitch41]

6 hours ago, Saughton Jambo said:

The standard of workmanship in he corporate lounges are very poor namely plumbing, joinery and painting. It was far too rushed. I’m sure the clerk of works was stevie wonder and ray Charles.  It’s terrible that JB was handsomely paid to oversee such poor work. I also know a few other contractors in there that had problems with the contract and not surprisingly this has went over budget. Shambolic really and the programme of works was underestimated and far too short sighted. More money needlessly wasted imo! 

The work had better be up to a great standard or the FOH will not be happy bunnies after all the money my fellow members put into the new stand.

[JamboGraham]

6 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Exactly Debut.  It was a great time to be a fan back then. I wouldn't swap those times for the "stable" environment just now. It certainly wasn't a chore going to games back then.

 

Like every era it had it's incredible highs, some horrible lows and a lot of 'meh!' in the middle. Time tends to erase the 'meh!' first, then the lows and leaves us with memories of the highs. I challenge you to reflect on season 2007-08 and say it wasn't a chore...

 

In less than one calendar year of playing in the final play off round for the Champions league we found ourselves drawing 1-1 with Gretna at Tynecastle. From November we went on a 3 month period where we won 3 out of 16 matches, including 10 on the bounce when we didn't win any at all. In that period we drew with Gretna again, lost at home to St Mirren, blew a 2-0 lead at home to Motherwell in the Scottish Cup and lost the replay.

 

We finished that season with a 34% win rate, just 13 league victories, a negative goal difference and an 8th place continuing a trend of doubling our finishing position from 2nd to 4th to 8th in consecutive seasons.

 

I certainly wouldn't want to swap that particular time for anything we have now...

 

It was indeed a great time to be a fan back then, but for me it's even greater to be a fan right now because the next match*, the next season, the next signing and even the next manager might, just might, turn out to be the greatest yet.

 

(*OK, next +1 match.)

 

 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

7 hours ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Like every era it had it's incredible highs, some horrible lows and a lot of 'meh!' in the middle. Time tends to erase the 'meh!' first, then the lows and leaves us with memories of the highs. I challenge you to reflect on season 2007-08 and say it wasn't a chore...

 

In less than one calendar year of playing in the final play off round for the Champions league we found ourselves drawing 1-1 with Gretna at Tynecastle. From November we went on a 3 month period where we won 3 out of 16 matches, including 10 on the bounce when we didn't win any at all. In that period we drew with Gretna again, lost at home to St Mirren, blew a 2-0 lead at home to Motherwell in the Scottish Cup and lost the replay.

 

We finished that season with a 34% win rate, just 13 league victories, a negative goal difference and an 8th place continuing a trend of doubling our finishing position from 2nd to 4th to 8th in consecutive seasons.

 

I certainly wouldn't want to swap that particular time for anything we have now...

 

It was indeed a great time to be a fan back then, but for me it's even greater to be a fan right now because the next match*, the next season, the next signing and even the next manager might, just might, turn out to be the greatest yet.

 

(*OK, next +1 match.)

 

 

 

Yes, fair points Graham.  You do tend to forget about one or two of the seasons between the Cup wins. Certainly hope you are right about the next +1 match?

[portobellojambo1]

8 hours ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Like every era it had it's incredible highs, some horrible lows and a lot of 'meh!' in the middle. Time tends to erase the 'meh!' first, then the lows and leaves us with memories of the highs. I challenge you to reflect on season 2007-08 and say it wasn't a chore...

 

In less than one calendar year of playing in the final play off round for the Champions league we found ourselves drawing 1-1 with Gretna at Tynecastle. From November we went on a 3 month period where we won 3 out of 16 matches, including 10 on the bounce when we didn't win any at all. In that period we drew with Gretna again, lost at home to St Mirren, blew a 2-0 lead at home to Motherwell in the Scottish Cup and lost the replay.

 

We finished that season with a 34% win rate, just 13 league victories, a negative goal difference and an 8th place continuing a trend of doubling our finishing position from 2nd to 4th to 8th in consecutive seasons.

 

I certainly wouldn't want to swap that particular time for anything we have now...

 

It was indeed a great time to be a fan back then, but for me it's even greater to be a fan right now because the next match*, the next season, the next signing and even the next manager might, just might, turn out to be the greatest yet.

 

(*OK, next +1 match.)

 

 

 

 

I think the main issue in terms of the actual thread topic is that many want change in the management and backroom staff, and I am 100% with those who have such thoughts. I am 63 years old and for me renewing has always been something which got done every year, it was just something I know I'll do every year. However, in doing so, and I've already done it for next season I have absolutely no qualms at all in saying that some of the football I've watched over the last period has been shit, and that is the only word that I can find that reflects it accurately. The manner in which we play football has to change and to achieve that will involve changes on the football side of the business. No change means what is on show at the moment would then be endorsed as acceptable, and in terms of the reaction of fans it clearly isn't. People aren't renewing because there is no finance option in place, the number of HMFC fans who make use of the finance option would only about half fill the Roseburn Stand. In terms of the part of your post I've highlighted we all have to accept that even with change there are no guarantees, but it gives you the chance to look at new people, a different approach. Acceptance that shit football is the way forward and no personnel changes will guarantee more of the same. The present manager is a person who as a player I don't think I'll see anyone as good again at Tynecastle in the time I have left on this Earth. However, I also know that he will not or cannot change his outlook on how he wants football to be played, people will not renew and the club will lose out. Do I think that means that those who aren't planning to renew are the problem, of course not. Football is no longer just something people do every weekend come what may, it is an option within  the entertainment industry and if it isn't entertaining then people will look at other options. Give the fans an indication that change will happen irrespective of the outcome of the Scottish Cup Final and ST sales and preparations for next season will be right back on track.

Edited May 18, 2019 by portobellojambo1

[SMJ_1874]

9 hours ago, mitch41 said:

The work had better be up to a great standard or the FOH will not be happy bunnies after all the money my fellow members put into the new stand.

It’s not a good standard Mitch. From a distance it looks ok but on close inspection it’s poorly and cheaply done. I’ve also poured a lot of money into the club and the question I keep asking is, who’s responsible for this needless waste of funds? The budget could’ve been tightened up but imo, when there’s a steady stream of income flowing into the coffers each month, then it’s easy to become careless with other people’s money. Our stand was a massive rush job with no thought given to practical design or consequence. Yes it’s a huge upgrade and looks a magnificent compliment to the other three stands but already the handrails will need painted every season. The rust is showing through in places and that’s less than a year since they were painted last. A bit more money could’ve been spent on the finishes throughout. Considering the cheap job we got in return for the massive overspend is dumbfounding to say the least. 

[Jodami]

57 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

I think the main issue in terms of the actual thread topic is that many want change in the management and backroom staff, and I am 100% with those who have such thoughts. I am 63 years old and for me renewing has always been something which got done every year, it was just something I know I'll do every year. However, in doing so, and I've already done it for next season I have absolutely no qualms at all in saying that some of the football I've watched over the last period has been shit, and that is the only word that I can find that reflects it accurately. The manner in which we play football has to change and to achieve that will involve changes on the football side of the business. No change means what is on show at the moment would then be endorsed as acceptable, and in terms of the reaction of fans it clearly isn't. People aren't renewing because there is no finance option in place, the number of HMFC fans who make use of the finance option would only about half fill the Roseburn Stand. In terms of the part of your post I've highlighted we all have to accept that even with change there are no guarantees, but it gives you the chance to look at new people, a different approach. Acceptance that shit football is the way forward and no personnel changes will guarantee more of the same. The present manager is a person who as a player I don't think I'll see anyone as good again at Tynecastle in the time I have left on this Earth. However, I also know that he will not or cannot change his outlook on how he wants football to be played, people will not renew and the club will lose out. Do I think that means that those who aren't planning to renew are the problem, of course not. Football is no longer just something people do every weekend come what may, it is an option within  the entertainment industry and if it isn't entertaining then people will look at other options. Give the fans an indication that change will happen irrespective of the outcome of the Scottish Cup Final and ST sales and preparations for next season will be right back on track.

Excellent post which sums up where I am with things. Irrespective of how bad we are I will always go, it's also time spent with my teenage son which I really value. Sitting beside guys who are really sound also makes a big difference and makes you want to keep your seat.

I am not a "Levein hater" and could never be, he was a brilliant player and is evidently a good guy. I hate the football though and I don't think we are getting as much out of the group of players as we might do. These are good enough reasons to want change.

[132goals1958]

18 hours ago, Whatever said:

The only thing ‘tarnished’ after the 2006 and 2012 cup wins was my Liver, tbh.

 

That chat all sounds very Hibernian.

 

I’d do the Vlad years all over again in a feckin heartbeat. ??

 

Tarnished my bahookie. We humiliated them in the final with players from our academy, free transfers from Falkirk.Inverness, St Johnston, Dundee United and the lower Spanish league. At the same time the Fester Road lot relied on loanees including Griffiths who they could ill afford 

 

[i wish jj was my dad]

14 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Why would Levein appoint a head coach who wants to play a passing game? I though Levein was a hoofball loving dinosaur who lives for making our eyes bleed?

And dictated tactics, style of play etc to said coach. 

 

Or does that not quite suit current agenda.

[i wish jj was my dad]

18 minutes ago, 132goals1958 said:

 

Tarnished my bahookie. We humiliated them in the final with players from our academy, free transfers from Falkirk.Inverness, St Johnston, Dundee United and the lower Spanish league. At the same time the Fester Road lot relied on loanees including Griffiths who they could ill afford 

 

Indeed. NLTF.

[Beast Boy]

“Tarnished”

 

 

**** me... ?

[Wee Mikey]

1 hour ago, Saughton Jambo said:

It’s not a good standard Mitch. From a distance it looks ok but on close inspection it’s poorly and cheaply done. I’ve also poured a lot of money into the club and the question I keep asking is, who’s responsible for this needless waste of funds? The budget could’ve been tightened up but imo, when there’s a steady stream of income flowing into the coffers each month, then it’s easy to become careless with other people’s money. Our stand was a massive rush job with no thought given to practical design or consequence. Yes it’s a huge upgrade and looks a magnificent compliment to the other three stands but already the handrails will need painted every season. The rust is showing through in places and that’s less than a year since they were painted last. A bit more money could’ve been spent on the finishes throughout. Considering the cheap job we got in return for the massive overspend is dumbfounding to say the least. 

Having had the opportunity to attend either pre-match or one-off events in each of the 1st floor 'corporate' rooms, and thoroughly enjoyed the experiences, it has to be said that the overall ambience was a bit of a let down. The modern equivelent of 'strip lighting' and the suspended ceilings remeniscent of 1970's hospitals and office blocks smacked of a Quantity Surveyor doing his/her job to save a few pounds. My bathroom has more atmosphere for heaven's sake! It's not all that difficult and, for sure, ain't that expensive either.

[mitch41]

4 hours ago, Saughton Jambo said:

It’s not a good standard Mitch. From a distance it looks ok but on close inspection it’s poorly and cheaply done. I’ve also poured a lot of money into the club and the question I keep asking is, who’s responsible for this needless waste of funds? The budget could’ve been tightened up but imo, when there’s a steady stream of income flowing into the coffers each month, then it’s easy to become careless with other people’s money. Our stand was a massive rush job with no thought given to practical design or consequence. Yes it’s a huge upgrade and looks a magnificent compliment to the other three stands but already the handrails will need painted every season. The rust is showing through in places and that’s less than a year since they were painted last. A bit more money could’ve been spent on the finishes throughout. Considering the cheap job we got in return for the massive overspend is dumbfounding to say the least. 

Well hopefully we'll all get a look at the lounges, bars, toilets ect in the near future but there's no way 

any Hearts fan should accept their monies being wasted on poor workmanship. Having seen the cost 

rise from £11 MILLION with £12 MILLION for contingencies to £18 MILLION at this moment i'd expect 

the place should be like a palace. Having just retired from the construction game i have seen too many 

main contractors employ managers who are hopeless at their job and seem to be in their positions 

because of who they know rather than what they know. Interserve, McAlpine, Bam, T Clarke, Morrison,

plus quite a number more have all had their share of bad leadership on certain sites which leads to contract 

overruns, poor supervision, lack of information to the workforce ect which leads to poor standards of the job.

I'm just getting depressed now when i think of all the high paid plonkers on sites that get paid for passing 

the buck. It's never their fault it's always someone elses and this goes on until they are found out then they 

leave to another cushy job they've lined up through a mate. 

 

I APOLOGISE RANT OVER.

 

And i haven't even had a drink.

[davemclaren]

5 hours ago, Saughton Jambo said:

It’s not a good standard Mitch. From a distance it looks ok but on close inspection it’s poorly and cheaply done. I’ve also poured a lot of money into the club and the question I keep asking is, who’s responsible for this needless waste of funds? The budget could’ve been tightened up but imo, when there’s a steady stream of income flowing into the coffers each month, then it’s easy to become careless with other people’s money. Our stand was a massive rush job with no thought given to practical design or consequence. Yes it’s a huge upgrade and looks a magnificent compliment to the other three stands but already the handrails will need painted every season. The rust is showing through in places and that’s less than a year since they were painted last. A bit more money could’ve been spent on the finishes throughout. Considering the cheap job we got in return for the massive overspend is dumbfounding to say the least. 

I attended a dinner in the new stand about a year ago and thought the setting was very spartan. I returned to the same suite on Sunday night and it looked far better as memorabilia was hanging on the walls.

 

I think the open glass side, whilst it lets in natural light, takes a bit away from the atmosphere compared to the Gorgie Suite. Given both were designed by the same architect it’s an odd one. 

[SMJ_1874]

2 hours ago, davemclaren said:

I attended a dinner in the new stand about a year ago and thought the setting was very spartan. I returned to the same suite on Sunday night and it looked far better as memorabilia was hanging on the walls.

 

I think the open glass side, whilst it lets in natural light, takes a bit away from the atmosphere compared to the Gorgie Suite. Given both were designed by the same architect it’s an odd one. 

Memorabilia only diverts a keen and trained eye from the real flaws that still lurk underneath a poor paint job DM. We’ve already had a kiosk stripped bare that cost a fortune to initially implement.  The mechanical side of things, heating/ventilation were a shambles and drawings and designs had to be changed. There’s been a catalogue of errors that have all cost to a 35% overspend. For £18M we should have a state of the art stand with proper facilities instead of the ‘cheap looking’ job we’ve accepted. No one is going to be held to account for this as it’s a closed book for enquiries. Without foundation money then the overspend would possibly not be possible as this will be written into the clubs business plan. Shocking to think we are £7M over budget with no one remotely accountable. We’ll just have to suck it up and accept it as is the norm these days. I’d be interested to hear how we claw some of this money back? Mitch’s reply above is absolutely spot on. Far too many contractors with their hands in our hard earned purse milking the Tynecastle gravy train. Makes me wonder what exactly the chairman’s brother was actually doing whilst attempting to oversee our job.

 

As for Jimmy Clydesdale it’s not an odd one really. The guy is incompetent and should never have been commissioned for this project. The only oddity is why he was given the gig in the first place. Were we given a choice or a say in the matter?  I wouldn’t let Jim Clydesdale design my toilet seat. As an architect he was finished years ago. It’s no wonder his books are almost empty. I know this as I’m good friends with a former architect he used to employ and until recently, still sub contracted work out to him. He only got the job because he designed the other 3 stands. I’ve never seen a main stand with so much glass facing a concourse or plaza and nothing on the inside. There should’ve been a glass wall the entire length of the stand facing the pitch where private boxes could be rented out for £20k plus per annum.  The concourse could’ve ran behind this with a separate tier above. This would’ve raised the height of the main stand by 2.5/3 metres and then our castle view restaurant would’ve worked. As much as I love my seat in the new stand where the view is great compared to my old seat in the Willie Bauld, i cant help feel we’ve missed a trick along with badly needed future revenue that we could be using to strengthen our squad and improve the product on the pitch. Hindsight is a great thing but imo our chairman should’ve stuck to IT than meddling in construction or got proper professionals in from the onset. You know it’s a white elephant when the architect gets sacked half way through the build for incompetence. When our chairman steps down then it’ll still be us that’s paying for this stand and it’s overspend for years to come.

 

I’d love to see the initial tenders from contractors and  sub contractors and then see their final invoices just to see exactly where this £7MILLION, yes £7MILLION has gone. 

 

Rant over! 

[luckydug]

41 minutes ago, Saughton Jambo said:

Memorabilia only diverts a keen and trained eye from the real flaws that still lurk underneath a poor paint job DM. We’ve already had a kiosk stripped bare that cost a fortune to initially implement.  The mechanical side of things, heating/ventilation were a shambles and drawings and designs had to be changed. There’s been a catalogue of errors that have all cost to a 35% overspend. For £18M we should have a state of the art stand with proper facilities instead of the ‘cheap looking’ job we’ve accepted. No one is going to be held to account for this as it’s a closed book for enquiries. Without foundation money then the overspend would possibly not be possible as this will be written into the clubs business plan. Shocking to think we are £7M over budget with no one remotely accountable. We’ll just have to suck it up and accept it as is the norm these days. I’d be interested to hear how we claw some of this money back? Mitch’s reply above is absolutely spot on. Far too many contractors with their hands in our hard earned purse milking the Tynecastle gravy train. Makes me wonder what exactly the chairman’s brother was actually doing whilst attempting to oversee our job.

 

As for Jimmy Clydesdale it’s not an odd one really. The guy is incompetent and should never have been commissioned for this project. The only oddity is why he was given the gig in the first place. Were we given a choice or a say in the matter?  I wouldn’t let Jim Clydesdale design my toilet seat. As an architect he was finished years ago. It’s no wonder his books are almost empty. I know this as I’m good friends with a former architect he used to employ and until recently, still sub contracted work out to him. He only got the job because he designed the other 3 stands. I’ve never seen a main stand with so much glass facing a concourse or plaza and nothing on the inside. There should’ve been a glass wall the entire length of the stand facing the pitch where private boxes could be rented out for £20k plus per annum.  The concourse could’ve ran behind this with a separate tier above. This would’ve raised the height of the main stand by 2.5/3 metres and then our castle view restaurant would’ve worked. As much as I love my seat in the new stand where the view is great compared to my old seat in the Willie Bauld, i cant help feel we’ve missed a trick along with badly needed future revenue that we could be using to strengthen our squad and improve the product on the pitch. Hindsight is a great thing but imo our chairman should’ve stuck to IT than meddling in construction or got proper professionals in from the onset. You know it’s a white elephant when the architect gets sacked half way through the build for incompetence. When our chairman steps down then it’ll still be us that’s paying for this stand and it’s overspend for years to come.

 

I’d love to see the initial tenders from contractors and  sub contractors and then see their final invoices just to see exactly where this £7MILLION, yes £7MILLION has gone. 

 

Rant over! 

I preferred the old stand anyway.

Doesn't feel like Tynecastle anymore.

What kind of team could we have had for 18 million ?

[davemclaren]

21 minutes ago, luckydug said:

I preferred the old stand anyway.

Doesn't feel like Tynecastle anymore.

What kind of team could we have had for 18 million ?

Definitely an expensive one.