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Season Ticket Sales - Half seasons on sale (title updated)


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5 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

It wasn’t illegal ffs 

If Vlad returns to Lithuania will he go to jail? 

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5 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

It wasn’t illegal ffs 

If Vlad returns to Scotland will he be arrested and extradited to Lithuania? 

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5 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

It wasn’t illegal ffs 

Usually if you commit a crime that justifies a long jail term the offence is generally deemed to be illegal. Agreed? 

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5 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

The ‘illegal’ team had 7 Scottish players (none bought that summer) start for Hearts in the first two games of that season.

 

Probably stayed similar for most part which I can’t remember off the top of my head right now. But I had a quick check of first couple of matches. 

Yes , but on revised contracts that were ridiculously above the market eg Craig Gordon, was it £19k per week? Contracts that couldn’t be afforded by the clubs ‘legal’ financial strength. 

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JamboGraham
1 hour ago, Kiwidoug said:

Still haven't heard a plausible reason why Hearts dont give us sales updates.  Are we not allowed bad or disappointing news?

 

Just my opinion however...It really depends on how bad. If some of the rumoured sales numbers quoted on here are anywhere near true then it’s not just bad or disappointing, it’s catastrophic! We are just 9 days away from a cup final with a squad that is visibly low on confidence and morale. Any update showing a reduction will set a media cycle of stories about lack of faith from the fans, etc. The greater the reduction the more sensational the reports...why hand feed the press a negative story when there is arguably no upside to doing it. 

 

Before everything else, let’s get the final played. We have a whole summer to worry about sales updates and anything else (!) that the club may need to consider and review.

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i wish jj was my dad
4 hours ago, davemclaren said:

You are right in that granting meaningful contracts to relatives has to be declared and carefully managed by the board. 

And by all accounts it was declared and above board so fair to say there is nothing unethical about it

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been here before

So.... to re-cap... a thread appealing to others to stop the rumours and unfounded speculation about STs by using rumours and unfounded specualtion about STs has ran to 6 pages thus far of rumours and unfounded speculation about STs.

 

Righto.

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2 minutes ago, been here before said:

So.... to re-cap... a thread appealing to others to stop the rumours and unfounded speculation about STs by using rumours and unfounded specualtion about STs has ran to 6 pages thus far of rumours and unfounded speculation about STs.

 

Righto.

 

?

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Pasquale for King
56 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Is fraud illegal? 

 

55 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Is knowingly using the proceeds of fraud to your own benefit fraud? 

What fraud are you on about? Was he ever charged with it in the UK? He would extradited yes. I still don’t think Hearts committed any crimes though. You’re sounding a bit Hibs here if you don’t mind me saying.

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i wish jj was my dad
4 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

I didn’t say it was, I said it might look on the surface to be so. I don’t know all the facts so i couldn’t possibly agree with your last sentence.

what was the point in bringing it into the conversation then? You didn't know so you speculated negatively. Dave explained that it was discussed at the AGM. If I read him right it was discussed and people were satisfied with the explanation.  So there is no story here that I can see. 

 

After all we have gone though since 2012, I simply can't see a situation where AB and the board would risk breaching any rules of governance to give a crony or relative a hand out and it beggars belief that Hearts fans would speculate to the contrary without evidence to that effect. 

 

Plenty of shite to fling at the club but lack of probity isn't one of them I would think

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Pasquale for King
3 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

what was the point in bringing it into the conversation then? You didn't know so you speculated negatively. Dave explained that it was discussed at the AGM. If I read him right it was discussed and people were satisfied with the explanation.  So there is no story here that I can see. 

 

After all we have gone though since 2012, I simply can't see a situation where AB and the board would risk breaching any rules of governance to give a crony or relative a hand out and it beggars belief that Hearts fans would speculate to the contrary without evidence to that effect. 

 

Plenty of shite to fling at the club but lack of probity isn't one of them I would think

You said she hadn’t done anything unethical, I queried that and said it could be viewed as being so regardless of what the directors she appointed and the shareholders think. No need to get your knickers in a twist.

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3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

 

What fraud are you on about? Was he ever charged with it on the UK? You’re sounding a bit Hibs here if you don’t mind me saying.

He was scooping money out of Ukio Bankas and using it for his own purposes, and ours. Don’t know why I’m telling you this because you know it. Just playing the fool. Vlad’s Been charged with it, in absentia,  in Lithuania. Given EU protocols re ‘wanted persons’ he would be arrested if he arrived in the Uk.  

I don’t mind you saying I’m sounding a bit Hibs because everything you say on here is weird garbage. Very anti-Hearts and very anti -debate. It’s your way or the highway. 

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2 hours ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Unless it's a direct quote I would treat almost anything produced by a journalist with outright scepticism. For the record since taking charge Clarke has signed 16 players and released 10. This number doesn't include players already on their books being loaned out and/or returning from loan. From the first match squad he selected to the most recent 4 players started both games, a further 4 were included in both squads. Both squads had 18 players.

 

For what its worth here is my view on Clarke. Kilmarnock have managed to sign a manager of truly exceptional quality; quality rarely seen in Scotland and almost never outside of the deep pockets of Celtic (and previously Rangers).

 

For years we have spoken about what it would require for us to make a genuine assault on the Championship. The general answer is we would need an exceptional manager, we would need a period almost entirely clear of injuries and we would need Celtic (and previously Rangers) to perform at a level well below their capability. Whilst we are all beating ourselves up about the fortunes of our own club the dream combination that we talk about has happened for Kilmarnock. (If we accept that Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen collectively are the equivalent of Celtic for us).

 

Manager - Yes, Almost entirely free of injury - Yes, Rivals under par - Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen, Yes. Add in the bonus of horrific injury records at Hibs and Hearts alongside a number of injuries to key players at Aberdeen and Kilmarnock have the perfect environment to take advantage and finish above all of these clubs. No question they still need to take that chance and boy have they done it...and they deserve every plaudit for doing so.

Top post mate. Actual facts and a well argued opinion. Good read.

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7 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Has he been tried in his absence?

 

Edit: I don't think he has, was meant to be this year though.

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/former-hearts-owner-vladimir-romanov-13530163

Charged and court case started then suspended. Currently in recess awaiting his return. Which is unlikely to happen. Dont think there’s any doubt he is guilty, do you? 

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3 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

what was the point in bringing it into the conversation then? You didn't know so you speculated negatively. Dave explained that it was discussed at the AGM. If I read him right it was discussed and people were satisfied with the explanation.  So there is no story here that I can see. 

 

After all we have gone though since 2012, I simply can't see a situation where AB and the board would risk breaching any rules of governance to give a crony or relative a hand out and it beggars belief that Hearts fans would speculate to the contrary without evidence to that effect. 

 

Plenty of shite to fling at the club but lack of probity isn't one of them I would think

 

Hearts are perfectly entitled to evaluate the bids any way they want. As long as all compliant bids were considered, that's enough.

 

Conflict of interest or perception of it will be damaging. But for a conflict of interest to exist, the interests of an individual is put before that of the company.

 

All business is conducted through personal relationships to some extent. It's not unusual for buyers to select people they trust. It happens all the time tbh. Especially if they are doing something unfamiliar to them, like building a new stand!

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Geoff Kilpatrick
10 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Charged and court case started then suspended. Currently in recess awaiting his return. Which is unlikely to happen. Dont think there’s any doubt he is guilty, do you? 

You are armed with all the facts of the case then or just the bits you read in the Daily R**ard?

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Pasquale for King
12 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

He was scooping money out of Ukio Bankas and using it for his own purposes, and ours. Don’t know why I’m telling you this because you know it. Just playing the fool. Vlad’s Been charged with it, in absentia,  in Lithuania. Given EU protocols re ‘wanted persons’ he would be arrested if he arrived in the Uk.  

I don’t mind you saying I’m sounding a bit Hibs because everything you say on here is weird garbage. Very anti-Hearts and very anti -debate. It’s your way or the highway. 

I know all of that but I’ve never seen a Hearts fan say WE committed fraud, Vlad did but you seemed to insinuate that paying money in wages we couldn’t afford is fraud, as I said most clubs do this. I’m open to anyone telling me things I didn’t know, I just like to query things. Apologies if that’s not allowed ?.

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Pasquale for King
12 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Hearts are perfectly entitled to evaluate the bids any way they want. As long as all compliant bids were considered, that's enough.

 

Conflict of interest or perception of it will be damaging. But for a conflict of interest to exist, the interests of an individual is put before that of the company.

 

All business is conducted through personal relationships to some extent. It's not unusual for buyers to select people they trust. It happens all the time tbh. Especially if they are doing something unfamiliar to them, like building a new stand!

Indeed, better the devil you know as the saying goes.

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Pasquale for King
2 hours ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Unless it's a direct quote I would treat almost anything produced by a journalist with outright scepticism. For the record since taking charge Clarke has signed 16 players and released 10. This number doesn't include players already on their books being loaned out and/or returning from loan. From the first match squad he selected to the most recent 4 players started both games, a further 4 were included in both squads. Both squads had 18 players.

 

For what its worth here is my view on Clarke. Kilmarnock have managed to sign a manager of truly exceptional quality; quality rarely seen in Scotland and almost never outside of the deep pockets of Celtic (and previously Rangers).

 

For years we have spoken about what it would require for us to make a genuine assault on the Championship. The general answer is we would need an exceptional manager, we would need a period almost entirely clear of injuries and we would need Celtic (and previously Rangers) to perform at a level well below their capability. Whilst we are all beating ourselves up about the fortunes of our own club the dream combination that we talk about has happened for Kilmarnock. (If we accept that Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen collectively are the equivalent of Celtic for us).

 

Manager - Yes, Almost entirely free of injury - Yes, Rivals under par - Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen, Yes. Add in the bonus of horrific injury records at Hibs and Hearts alongside a number of injuries to key players at Aberdeen and Kilmarnock have the perfect environment to take advantage and finish above all of these clubs. No question they still need to take that chance and boy have they done it...and they deserve every plaudit for doing so.

Good post, I have no idea why people don’t not want to accept the phenomenal job he’s done.

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17 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

You are armed with all the facts of the case then or just the bits you read in the Daily R**ard?

Enough of them are in the public domain (non Glasgow red tops) to make a decent judgement call. 

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Geoff Kilpatrick
Just now, soonbe110 said:

Enough of them are in the public domain (non Glasgow red tops) to make a decent judgement call. 

Cool. Personally, I believe in jurisprudence. I've also seen many financial fraud cases that were "sure things" collapse too.

 

Until then, Mr Romanov is an innocent man who is enjoying his retirement. I raise a glass to him and his spending on Heart of Midlothian. :toasting:

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7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Good post, I have no idea why people don’t not want to accept the phenomenal job he’s done.

 I think most rational people do but ponder this for a second.

We are one game away from a SC win, a win that will, possibly, leave Killie out of Europe in 4th and would also mean we go into a later round of Europe than Rangers and Aberdeen, while Killie would go into the LC groups.

 

All ifs and buts of course but i’d rather be sitting where we are right now....which will appall some on here !

Sorry !

?

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15 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I know all of that but I’ve never seen a Hearts fan say WE committed fraud, Vlad did but you seemed to insinuate that paying money in wages we couldn’t afford is fraud, as I said most clubs do this. I’m open to anyone telling me things I didn’t know, I just like to query things. Apologies if that’s not allowed ?.

Given that he owned the club and used money fraudulently gained to sign players, pay wages etc I’d say it is fraud. He ‘was’ the club from an ownership standpoint. Not sure where you get the ‘we’ from.

You have attempted to hang, draw and quarter Mrs Budge for significantly lesser supposed  ‘crimes’   Jeez earlier in the thread you were accusing her of dodgy deals on the stand contract, feathering the pockets of family members with absolutely no justification. As I said on an earlier post your comments are weird and garbage and really just trying to create unrest based on falsehoods. First step of redemption for you could  be to be consistent in your comments. Given that you make the stories up I appreciate that will be hard but a good first step. 

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5 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Cool. Personally, I believe in jurisprudence. I've also seen many financial fraud cases that were "sure things" collapse too.

 

Until then, Mr Romanov is an innocent man who is enjoying his retirement. I raise a glass to him and his spending on Heart of Midlothian. :toasting:

Whilst hiding from arrest warrants in all EU countries? 

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Geoff Kilpatrick
5 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Whilst hiding from arrest warrants in all EU countries? 

Fecks given = 0.

 

Should we hand back our silverware in 2006 and 2012?

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11 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Fecks given = 0.

 

Should we hand back our silverware in 2006 and 2012?

In my opinion they are both tarnished. 2006 more than 2012. 

Dont get me wrong I enjoyed the victories, players etc as much as anyone. I did BELIEVE for a while. However the rumours were always there. As was the question why he was spending what he was, on us. Turns out the money laundering rumours were indeed true. 

What Vlad did with Ukio’s customers funds is no less worse than SDM and his EBT’s. Both against the law, both fraudulent and both just crooked really. 

Always made me laugh when I saw most of the indignant comments on the mammoth Sevco thread. 

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Geoff Kilpatrick
Just now, soonbe110 said:

In my opinion they are both tarnished. 2006 more than 2012. 

Dont get me wrong I enjoyed the victories, players etc as much as anyone. I did BELIEVE for a while. However the rumours were always there. As was the question why he was spending what he was, on us. Turns out the money laundering rumours were indeed true. 

What Vlad did with Ukio’s customers funds is no less worse than SDM and his EBT’s. Both against the law, both fraudulent and both just crooked really. 

Always made me laugh when I saw most of the indignant comments on the mammoth Sevco thread. 

:rofl:

 

And with that, your credibility is gone.

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1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

:rofl:

 

And with that, your credibility is gone.

Only in your opinion. Should Rangers be deleted from the record books for the EBT years? 

Explain why you think they are different, from an integrity perspective, please. 

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Geoff Kilpatrick
3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Only in your opinion. Should Rangers be deleted from the record books for the EBT years? 

Explain why you think they are different, from an integrity perspective, please. 

That is different because the player contracts were incorrectly registered. A fundamental difference. Our players were registered correctly.

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2 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

:rofl:

 

And with that, your credibility is gone.

You get some bizarre Hearts fans and most appear on here. 

 

Fighting to put your own club’s achievements on the park in a bad light...ffs, seen it all now!  

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Enzo Chiefo
7 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

In my opinion they are both tarnished. 2006 more than 2012. 

Dont get me wrong I enjoyed the victories, players etc as much as anyone. I did BELIEVE for a while. However the rumours were always there. As was the question why he was spending what he was, on us. Turns out the money laundering rumours were indeed true. 

What Vlad did with Ukio’s customers funds is no less worse than SDM and his EBT’s. Both against the law, both fraudulent and both just crooked really. 

Always made me laugh when I saw most of the indignant comments on the mammoth Sevco thread. 

Tarnished?? Are you having a laugh? It was a fantastic period to be  a Hearts supporter and both cup wins, and season 05/06, will live long in the memory of all true Hearts fans. Thanks Mr Romanov.

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rick witter
12 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

In my opinion they are both tarnished. 2006 more than 2012. 

Dont get me wrong I enjoyed the victories, players etc as much as anyone. I did BELIEVE for a while. However the rumours were always there. As was the question why he was spending what he was, on us. Turns out the money laundering rumours were indeed true. 

What Vlad did with Ukio’s customers funds is no less worse than SDM and his EBT’s. Both against the law, both fraudulent and both just crooked really. 

Always made me laugh when I saw most of the indignant comments on the mammoth Sevco thread. 

Tarnished!!! GTF 

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Pasquale for King
43 minutes ago, Boab said:

 I think most rational people do but ponder this for a second.

We are one game away from a SC win, a win that will, possibly, leave Killie out of Europe in 4th and would also mean we go into a later round of Europe than Rangers and Aberdeen, while Killie would go into the LC groups.

 

All ifs and buts of course but i’d rather be sitting where we are right now....which will appall some on here !

Sorry !

?

That’s your point of view and that’s fine, but you surely can’t argue with the fantastic job he’s done even without comparing him to Levein on their budget? 

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frankblack
8 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Tarnished?? Are you having a laugh? It was a fantastic period to be  a Hearts supporter and both cup wins, and season 05/06, will live long in the memory of all true Hearts fans. Thanks Mr Romanov.

 

The club nearly went tits up directly as a result of Romanov's financial mismanagement.  That was clear to all after the cup final when Paulo Sergio quit, players stopped getting paid, and we went into Administration.

 

What you don't seem to get is that we can't go back to that again without doing a Sevco.

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Pasquale for King
43 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Given that he owned the club and used money fraudulently gained to sign players, pay wages etc I’d say it is fraud. He ‘was’ the club from an ownership standpoint. Not sure where you get the ‘we’ from.

You have attempted to hang, draw and quarter Mrs Budge for significantly lesser supposed  ‘crimes’   Jeez earlier in the thread you were accusing her of dodgy deals on the stand contract, feathering the pockets of family members with absolutely no justification. As I said on an earlier post your comments are weird and garbage and really just trying to create unrest based on falsehoods. First step of redemption for you could  be to be consistent in your comments. Given that you make the stories up I appreciate that will be hard but a good first step. 

It’s not your decision whether it’s fraud or not thankfully.

I think any sane person would see I’ve been consistent with my comments on this. Again my redemption has nothing to do with you.

As for making up stories show me some proof.

Tainted trophies oh dear ?. Did the pieman not have us in debt, was 1998 tainted? Are every team that’s top of the league in Europe not in debt? You may well have outed yourself as a hobbit today, finally. No wonder you want Levein to keep his job ??.

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Governor Tarkin
1 hour ago, Artful Dodger said:

Are we back in administration yet ?

 

Tick, tock. 

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14 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

That is different because the player contracts were incorrectly registered. A fundamental difference. Our players were registered correctly.

They were incorrectly registered and they were illegal tax wise. Players were paid with no tax deducted. Whatever way you look at it both clubs had players playing for them that they really couldn’t afford. The funds used to pay the players in both cases were fraudulently acquired from banks ie Ukio and HBoS. 

I enjoyed the cup wins as much as anyone else but I’m not blinkered enough to deny they were dodgy in terms of the funding for the squads we had. Interesting that some who have quickly jumped in to disagree have been all over the Sevco thread for years in terms of how they cheated their way to trophies etc. 

Talk about hypocritical. 

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Governor Tarkin
47 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Fecks given = 0.

 

Should we hand back our silverware in 2006 and 2012?

 

:greatpost:

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Governor Tarkin
30 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

In my opinion they are both tarnished. 2006 more than 2012. 

 

:what:

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6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

It’s not your decision whether it’s fraud or not thankfully.

I think any sane person would see I’ve been consistent with my comments on this. Again my redemption has nothing to do with you.

As for making up stories show me some proof.

Tainted trophies oh dear ?. Did the pieman not have us in debt, was 1998 tainted? Are every team that’s top of the league in Europe not in debt? You may well have outed yourself as a hobbit today, finally. No wonder you want Levein to keep his job ??.

I have never mentioned debt. No issues with debt. Business runs in debt. 

They don’t run on fraudulent acquisition of funds to better their business. 

If you don’t know the difference between debt and embezzlement/tax evasion that’s your problem not mine. 

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Enzo Chiefo
12 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

The club nearly went tits up directly as a result of Romanov's financial mismanagement.  That was clear to all after the cup final when Paulo Sergio quit, players stopped getting paid, and we went into Administration.

 

What you don't seem to get is that we can't go back to that again without doing a Sevco.

I'm not talking about "going back", I'm just revelling in that period of our history. Great days!

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King Of The Cat Cafe
1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Cool. Personally, I believe in jurisprudence. I've also seen many financial fraud cases that were "sure things" collapse too.

 

Until then, Mr Romanov is an innocent man who is enjoying his retirement. I raise a glass to him and his spending on Heart of Midlothian. :toasting:

 

Most, if not all, prosecutions are considered "sure things": but many of them fail to survive the first blush - or even a lengthy blush - with a jury.

 

Then there are those cases that in Northern Ireland law became known as "Ballymena pleas".  "Guilty, but..."

 

Having said all that; I agree with your last sentence.

 

 

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frankblack
Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

I'm not talking about "going back", I'm just revelling in that period of our history. Great days!

 

Great days with a stable football department run by Robbo, Csaba Laszlo, Burley, Valdas Ivanauskis, Mad Eddie, Rixy, Paulo Sergio, John McGlynn, and Locke.  Sorry if I missed any names...

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10 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Great days with a stable football department run by Robbo, Csaba Laszlo, Burley, Valdas Ivanauskis, Mad Eddie, Rixy, Paulo Sergio, John McGlynn, and Locke.  Sorry if I missed any names...

I certainly got them out in force tonight Frank. Your post just re-affirms my ‘weird and garbage’ comment from earlier. Anyway I’m out for tonight. 

Edited by soonbe110
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Enzo Chiefo
2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Great days with a stable football department run by Robbo, Csaba Laszlo, Burley, Valdas Ivanauskis, Mad Eddie, Rixy, Paulo Sergio, John McGlynn, and Locke.  Sorry if I missed any names...

Yes, I didn't agree with so many managerial changes and bizarre decisions that were made at the time, interfering in team selections etc. "Stable football departments" don't interest me, too much power conferred to one individual, in our case, and it doesn't work. A first team manager with full control, who will inevitably move on or be moved on. Then we scour the market for the best candidate at that time and so it goes on. Players move on all the time so there's nothing awry about managers doing the same.

 

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3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yes, I didn't agree with so many managerial changes and bizarre decisions that were made at the time, interfering in team selections etc. "Stable football departments" don't interest me, too much power conferred to one individual, in our case, and it doesn't work. A first team manager with full control, who will inevitably move on or be moved on. Then we scour the market for the best candidate at that time and so it goes on. Players move on all the time so there's nothing awry about managers doing the same.

 

You just said they were ‘great days’.  Managers were moving on or being moved on every five minutes. We were scouring the market every day. 

Really do you think if we did that again it would bring back the ‘great days’? 

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Enzo Chiefo
1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

You just said they were ‘great days’.  Managers were moving on or being moved on every five minutes. We were scouring the market every day. 

Really do you think if we did that again it would bring back the ‘great days’? 

Well we weren't scouring the market were we. We were appointing,  in the main, managers who were happy to acquiesce to Romanov. I wouldn't advocate changing managers every other month, certainly not. But, yes, scrap the DOF role and appoint a manager.

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