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Women's FA Cup Final - Sexism


Stephane Grappelli

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12 hours ago, Stephane Grappelli said:

 

 

So many people missing the firmly tongue in cheek nature of the OP.

I don’t think they’re necessarily just talking about the OP. 

 

Some howling attitudes in this thread. 

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Governor Tarkin
17 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I struggle to understand how people can’t see that being proactive about growing our presence in the women’s game now is beneficial to the whole club including the men’s team.

 

If this World Cup has shown anything is that the women’s game is going to grow and grow and the media coverage and associated sponsorship opportunities along with it.  Before some smart arse asks me to quote numbers I can’t but it’s evident that’s where it’s going.  

 

And, if nothing else, it opens up our club to a whole new potential demographic of fans.  Not least the girls themselves but also parents and wider family who may now take greater interest in the club including the men’s team.  This will mean increased ticket and merchandise sales.  Imagine Scotland in the next World Cup and the Hearts centre forward scores the winner that takes Scotland to the quarter finals - how many young girls suddenly want a Hearts shirt...

 

In the grand scheme of things £200k is nothing to get ahead of the curve, if people can’t see that they are either being deliberately provocative  or it is a reflection of a short termism approach that reflects how they live their everyday lives.  

 

Good post.

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Nookie Bear
22 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I struggle to understand how people can’t see that being proactive about growing our presence in the women’s game now is beneficial to the whole club including the men’s team.

 

If this World Cup has shown anything is that the women’s game is going to grow and grow and the media coverage and associated sponsorship opportunities along with it.  Before some smart arse asks me to quote numbers I can’t but it’s evident that’s where it’s going.  

 

And, if nothing else, it opens up our club to a whole new potential demographic of fans.  Not least the girls themselves but also parents and wider family who may now take greater interest in the club including the men’s team.  This will mean increased ticket and merchandise sales.  Imagine Scotland in the next World Cup and the Hearts centre forward scores the winner that takes Scotland to the quarter finals - how many young girls suddenly want a Hearts shirt...

 

In the grand scheme of things £200k is nothing to get ahead of the curve, if people can’t see that they are either being deliberately provocative  or it is a reflection of a short termism approach that reflects how they live their everyday lives.  

 

Problem with the women’s game is that they have looked at the structure and success of the men’s game and decided that is the model to follow. 

 

It is a Top-down model, with a Champions League already in place and the WSL is a full-time professional league (with Scottish League attendances). So basically only Women’s teams affiliated to large traditional teams will be competing at the top end and the names are already starting to look depressingly familiar. 

 

Once the wages start to rocket it will be a rich clubs game and traditionally strong teams like Hibs and Glasgow will be left behind, and we will never be in the race. The same goes for Scotland and I suspect qualification will be an achievement, never mind an amateur Hearts player scoring he winner. 

 

 

 

 

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Stephane Grappelli
23 hours ago, Morph said:

I don’t think they’re necessarily just talking about the OP. 

 

Some howling attitudes in this thread. 

 

You could be right.

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On 04/07/2019 at 09:18, Nookie Bear said:

 

Problem with the women’s game is that they have looked at the structure and success of the men’s game and decided that is the model to follow. 

 

It is a Top-down model, with a Champions League already in place and the WSL is a full-time professional league (with Scottish League attendances). So basically only Women’s teams affiliated to large traditional teams will be competing at the top end and the names are already starting to look depressingly familiar. 

 

Once the wages start to rocket it will be a rich clubs game and traditionally strong teams like Hibs and Glasgow will be left behind, and we will never be in the race. The same goes for Scotland and I suspect qualification will be an achievement, never mind an amateur Hearts player scoring he winner. 

 

 

 

 

You can see this happening in Germany where the women's game has been pretty strong for a long time. Turbine Potsdam and Frankfurt, 2 sides who only operated as a women's team, were always battling it out for the Bundesliga and the Champions League. Now, Wolfsburg and Bayern have started to invest in women's teams and Turbine and Frankfurt have suffered accordingly. They've gone from sharing the league between them and regularly appearing and winning the Champions League to, in a few years, struggling to break in to the top 3. You can see the same in England. Doncaster Belles utterly dominated the game until the men's clubs started to fund women counterparts. 

Edited by Normthebarman
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Stephane Grappelli
On 04/07/2019 at 09:00, Morph said:

I don’t think they’re necessarily just talking about the OP. 

 

Some howling attitudes in this thread. 

 

Fair point.

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jambostuart
On 05/07/2019 at 15:14, Normthebarman said:

You can see this happening in Germany where the women's game has been pretty strong for a long time. Turbine Potsdam and Frankfurt, 2 sides who only operated as a women's team, were always battling it out for the Bundesliga and the Champions League. Now, Wolfsburg and Bayern have started to invest in women's teams and Turbine and Frankfurt have suffered accordingly. They've gone from sharing the league between them and regularly appearing and winning the Champions League to, in a few years, struggling to break in to the top 3. You can see the same in England. Doncaster Belles utterly dominated the game until the men's clubs started to fund women counterparts. 

 

This in itself is how all football goes though? I'd personally love it if Hearts splurged a healthy figure on the women's team and they romped their respective trophies and leagues. But this is a poor business model and football is a business.

 

I only have one issue with women's football and it is that it doesn't seem to have any long term plans for remaining sustainable. The exposure they've had after the World Cup is fantastic and I'm all for a start up investment from Hearts to the women's team. We have always been and should remain to be an inclusive and progressive football club.

 

But honestly how big are the attendances for women's football and how much are they marketing themselves as a seperate brand to men's football? The comparisons to men's football will continue to hinder the progress of the sport (particularly when the argument of smaller goals are brought in for goalkeepers), but it's hard to shake when the two are becoming so intertwined (PL matches opening with a women's match before the men's). 

 

Women's football really needs to a platform to grow on its own. International tournaments like the World Cup help with this but once every four years isn't good enough. I really hope it does go from strength to strength. Getting young people out and active and giving to aspire to is only a good thing, male or female, but that it doesn't make the infrastructure exempt from criticism and hearing the argument of "women footballers deserve equal pay to men" is damaging to their brand. 

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Forever Hearts
On 06/05/2019 at 09:45, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Some people seem to take too much of an interest in the women's game and are getting bent out of shape about it. If you have no interest in it then don't watch it! That's what I do.

I don't watch it. I'm getting bent out of shape because Hearts have chosen to chuck £200k at a PC vanity project when that money could have been spent on the first team or youths. 

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1 hour ago, Forever Hearts said:

I don't watch it. I'm getting bent out of shape because Hearts have chosen to chuck £200k at a PC vanity project when that money could have been spent on the first team or youths. 

 

It is being spent on youths as well, they just happen to have vaginas.

 

 

:leveinproblem:

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Byyy The Light
On 04/07/2019 at 08:18, Nookie Bear said:

 

Problem with the women’s game is that they have looked at the structure and success of the men’s game and decided that is the model to follow. 

 

It is a Top-down model, with a Champions League already in place and the WSL is a full-time professional league (with Scottish League attendances). So basically only Women’s teams affiliated to large traditional teams will be competing at the top end and the names are already starting to look depressingly familiar. 

 

Once the wages start to rocket it will be a rich clubs game and traditionally strong teams like Hibs and Glasgow will be left behind, and we will never be in the race. The same goes for Scotland and I suspect qualification will be an achievement, never mind an amateur Hearts player scoring he winner. 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting conversation this. Makes a change on here!

 

The whole thing Is clearly driven by FIFA trying to grow the pie to get their fat fingers in as the men’s game will ultimately reach a ceiling at some point.

 

The women’s game could therefore end up being a route for Hearts as club to feature in the Champions League and tap in to that money. I’d guess that we’ve more chance on the women’s side than the men’s. Why do you think we’d never have a chance and Hibs and Glasgow will fall by the way side? Ok we might never have the financial clout of a Man City or Bayern but if we ended up regularly qualifying as Celtic do in the men’s game then surely that’s a benefit to the club? 

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Tommy Brown
50 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

 

Interesting conversation this. Makes a change on here!

 

The whole thing Is clearly driven by FIFA trying to grow the pie to get their fat fingers in as the men’s game will ultimately reach a ceiling at some point.

 

The women’s game could therefore end up being a route for Hearts as club to feature in the Champions League and tap in to that money. I’d guess that we’ve more chance on the women’s side than the men’s. Why do you think we’d never have a chance and Hibs and Glasgow will fall by the way side? Ok we might never have the financial clout of a Man City or Bayern but if we ended up regularly qualifying as Celtic do in the men’s game then surely that’s a benefit to the club? 

FIFA trying to grow the pie to get their fat fingers in

:naughty:

 

Why do you think we’d never have a chance and Hibs and Glasgow will fall by the way side?

 

I sadly agree with @Nookie Bear, Scotland's best players are playing for the best teams (EPL & beyond), basically because of full-time set-ups which will increase wages.

Best players for Glasgow, Hibs, Hearts will follow the route upwards and never have the team to compete. Just the same as the men's game.

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Byyy The Light
17 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

FIFA trying to grow the pie to get their fat fingers in

:naughty:

 

Why do you think we’d never have a chance and Hibs and Glasgow will fall by the way side?

 

I sadly agree with @Nookie Bear, Scotland's best players are playing for the best teams (EPL & beyond), basically because of full-time set-ups which will increase wages.

Best players for Glasgow, Hibs, Hearts will follow the route upwards and never have the team to compete. Just the same as the men's game.

 

:robboyas:

 

Haha. Chuckled to myself writing that bit.

 

I understand what you are saying but the point I was trying to make is there may be an opportunity to become dominant in Scotland and therefore qualify for champions league every year. Regardless if we win that, simply being there would guarantee money and exposure for Hearts. Something that will never happen for the men’s team. There’s a bit of a blank canvas just now on the women’s side. Who’s to say if Scotland got their finger out they can’t get 2 or 3 spots in the Champions League?

 

Guess it’s a long winded way of saying if women’s football is following the men’s model then there’s a chance for the women’s game in scotland to learn from the mistakes of the men’s? It’s kind of like going back 25 years to the start of the SKY era and learn from what went wrong.

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