Bolton

[tian447]

They should just become The Bolton Wanderers and join League 2 with absolutely **** all debt, whilst keeping all their honours and club branding intact. 

 

There's a precedent for it set already

[The Treasurer]

It's reported that they were finally put into admin due to a tax bill of £1.2m

I know there is a lot more to it but it shows how messed up things are down there when a once great club can be almost finished for what is a months wages to a lot of premiership players

[Angel eyes]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/bolton-wanderers-set-up-emergency-15777047

[CavySlaveJambo]

23 hours ago, tian447 said:

They should just become The Bolton Wanderers and join League 2 with absolutely **** all debt, whilst keeping all their honours and club branding intact. 

 

There's a precedent for it set already

Except that there is a proper pyramid structure in place in England that would be that if they  go into Liquidation they go to the Non League Pyramid. 

 

Which would either give Notts County a reprieve or promote AFC Fylde. 

 

Anyway what about the EFL club (allegedly Preston) who has donated £2000 to the Bolton staff in Shopping Vouchers? 

[Cade]

Bolton have 7 fully professional contracted players left on their books.

2 are goalies.

None are defenders.

 

They'll be fulfilling their pre-season matches with youth team players.

Takeover talks continue and could be complete by the end of next week.

Several clubs have already agreed to sell or loan players to Bolton on takeover day.

 

Great to see other clubs rally around.

[Sagan]

Have they got any decent strikers?

[Mikey1874]

Just 4/5 senior players I think.

[Ibrahim Tall]

1 hour ago, Zlatanable said:

I was thinking about this issue, I wonder what our players in the admin season, think about it. 

 

There must be a better solution, it seemed unfair on us. 

(Like maybe having a League contingency fund, that pays the wages for free contract players, or something.)

 

I get your point but why should there though? It’s a shit situation for the affected staff and the fans but this situation is a result of Bolton living ridiculously beyond their means for nearly 20 years, they were £200m+ in debt ffs!

[Madjambo21]

Wonder if they went to the wall and came back would they still be Bolton or what 🤔😉

[skinnybob72]

I have tickets for their game against Ipswich on Saturday....

 

Bury and Bolton - both in League 1 - could go to the wall in the next few days / weeks. Could this be the beginning of a major issue within English football??

Edited August 19, 2019 by skinnybob72

[frankblack]

7 minutes ago, Madjambo21 said:

Wonder if they went to the wall and came back would they still be Bolton or what 🤔😉

 

They could call a new company Bolton, but it wouldn't have any legal links to the old one.  They might be able to persuade their fans they are the same company, though.

 

Perhaps someone in Scottish Football could assist them with that?

 

I'd imagine they would have to start again in Non League football.

Edited August 19, 2019 by frankblack

[Portable Badger]

This is when the mega-rich clubs in the EPL & Championship should be loaning one player each to Bolton whilst also covering the players wages so the club can continue playing/selling the club

[Notts1874]

There are reports that there are 15 other clubs on "Intensive Care" in the EFL.

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, Portable Badger said:

This is when the mega-rich clubs in the EPL & Championship should be loaning one player each to Bolton whilst also covering the players wages so the club can continue playing/selling the club

 

Is that possible or was it just the EPL that closed its window last week?

[upgotheheads]

Where's Craig Whyte and Charles Green when you need them?

[Mikey1874]

13 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Is that possible or was it just the EPL that closed its window last week?

 

Bolton being League One can still get players in till 2 September. 

[Madjambo21]

39 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

They could call a new company Bolton, but it wouldn't have any legal links to the old one.  They might be able to persuade their fans they are the same company, though.

 

Perhaps someone in Scottish Football could assist them with that?

 

I'd imagine they would have to start again in Non League football.

Surely they could buy the history for a tidy fee 🤣🤣🤣

[XXX]

5 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Are Bolton free to sign players? not a transfer ban, just not signing cos of £/takeover

 

Only freebies.

[Shanks said no]

1 hour ago, skinnybob72 said:

I have tickets for their game against Ipswich on Saturday....

 

Bury and Bolton - both in League 1 - could go to the wall in the next few days / weeks. Could this be the beginning of a major issue within English football??

Could be replaced by an Irish and a British club

[RobNox]

1 hour ago, Portable Badger said:

This is when the mega-rich clubs in the EPL & Championship should be loaning one player each to Bolton whilst also covering the players wages so the club can continue playing/selling the club

 

Seems a tad unfair on the rest of the clubs in League 1 who haven't got themselves into a financial mess.  

[Portable Badger]

1 minute ago, RobNox said:

 

Seems a tad unfair on the rest of the clubs in League 1 who haven't got themselves into a financial mess.  

Fair point

[andythejambo]

1 hour ago, Zlatanable said:

Yeah. I know. 

It just seems the wrong thing to do. Cos effectively the punishment means young footballers have to play every week. Those young players aren't to blame, and they have their careers to think of. 

Same as Hearts.....we didn't postpone games......we played the laddies

[Cigaro]

Read that it was on safety grounds for the young guys as they're having to play the underage games too. Surely those are the ones that you cancel, while making sure first team fixtures are fulfilled.

[Serge Pizzorno]

What’s happening to Bolton and Bury is absolutely sickening when you look at the money in the top flight. 

 

These are the true English clubs with a loyal fan base, not tourist attraction clubs. 

[RobNox]

9 minutes ago, Serge Pizzorno said:

What’s happening to Bolton and Bury is absolutely sickening when you look at the money in the top flight. 

 

These are the true English clubs with a loyal fan base, not tourist attraction clubs. 

 

It's sad and I feel sorry for their fans, given what we went through not so long ago.  However, clubs need to live within their means.

 

It's not that long ago that Bolton were in the top flight, so the fact that they are now in the state they are is down to the complete financial mismanagement of the club.  They got themselves into unsustainable debt getting to and staying in the Premier League.  When they were relegated they benefited from parachute payments, yet still ended up bust, which proves how badly they had been managed.

 

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

I suspect there are a fair number of clubs in the lower leagues in England who are on the verge of bankruptcy. 

[AW1]

21 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

I suspect there are a fair number of clubs in the lower leagues in England who are on the verge of bankruptcy. 

Southend are in the crap I know that. Old Ron is always  having tax bills land at Roots Hall. Was In court again march just gone for another unpaid bill 

Edited August 19, 2019 by AW1
Typo

[Saint Jambo]

1 hour ago, Portable Badger said:

This is when the mega-rich clubs in the EPL & Championship should be loaning one player each to Bolton whilst also covering the players wages so the club can continue playing/selling the club

 

Fairly sure I read that there are a number of clubs that have promised to loan players to Bolton as soon as they are taken over.

 

Have to ask how long Bolton can keep cancelling games before the league has to kick them out. An amateur team wouldn't get away with this in most leagues.

 

As others have said, Bolton were the pin-up for a small club overspending beyond their means with fantasy money.

[Bauldrick]

Do the English teams in the lower leagues not get a fair share of the big TV deal money? I was under the impression that many of these teams could always pay higher salaries to their players than say Hearts or Hibs etc, or does that only apply to the EPL and the championship?

[annushorribilis III]

2 hours ago, Cigaro said:

Read that it was on safety grounds for the young guys as they're having to play the underage games too. Surely those are the ones that you cancel, while making sure first team fixtures are fulfilled.

Every club has a deadline to register their players for the coming season and Bolton has never done that - they never had the pros on the books to begin with. The EFL has turned a blind eye to that and now we have  a scenario where - as the EFL knew - Bolton don't have the players. IMO the EFL doesn't want Bolton to go bust because it will shine a light on the reality of football outside of the Premiership/Championship. 

[AW1]

6 hours ago, Bauldrick said:

Do the English teams in the lower leagues not get a fair share of the big TV deal money? I was under the impression that many of these teams could always pay higher salaries to their players than say Hearts or Hibs etc, or does that only apply to the EPL and the championship?

Southend can only afford to sign the Nathan Ralphs and ex Hobo Mark Milligans of this world . Another recruit from Weymouth has topped it off. Clubs that get big crowds aren't immune either (see Bradford). The money is staying in the top two divisions. It helps a bit if your a club like Sunderland who bring in more revenue but even they struggle now after having to pay astronomical wages in the championship to clowns like Rodwell. Southend are in the crap big time just like most clubs in league 1 and 2. It's dog eat dog down there underneath the championship there isn't a lot of money floating about at all. Salford are one of the luckier ones with backers 

[kimosavi]

Have Hibs fan written an email to the English FA yet? 

[It should have been ten]

4 minutes ago, kimosavi said:

Have Hibs fan written an email to the English FA yet? 

 

[SM Sheffield]

Bolton shouldn’t be able to get away with this no matter the circumstances. Doncaster should be awarded the match and the 3 points if Bolton are unwilling and unable to play the fixture as planned. 

[Dallas Green]

Went to a Bolton game back in 2012, was the night after we played Liverpool at Tynecastle.

 

Was supposed to be travelling down that day but no chance was I missing a game against Liverpool 😂

 

Went to the reebok that next night and saw them draw against nottingham forrest. Decent enough game but the punters in the stands were top notch. Good supporters of their team. Got speaking to the boy next to me and was telling him I was a Jambo etc, said he had watched the game the night before and was pretty impressed by us against a good liverpool side.

 

Shame their club has went like this, fans don't deserve the shit previous owners get the club into. The life of a football fan eh?

[FWJ]

Not much to add other than I feel sorry for their fans too.

 

But “interfaced with the EFL”.  Really?

[CavySlaveJambo]

12 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

They could call a new company Bolton, but it wouldn't have any legal links to the old one.  They might be able to persuade their fans they are the same company, though.

 

Perhaps someone in Scottish Football could assist them with that?

 

I'd imagine they would have to start again in Non League football.

depends of the golden share. If they do not have it they will be in tier 5 of the National League System if they do have it they will be two leagues below (national league) 

 

And the Transfer Deadline for clubs below the Chanpionship is the same as for us. September 2nd. 

Edited August 20, 2019 by CavySlaveJambo

[Spellczech]

Problem is that clubs are companies so "owners" leave the debt in the company. When they lose interest they sell to the next egomaniac who wants the glamour of "owning" a club, but the new owner just pays a notional pound and the debt transfers over with the stadium and other assets. New owner "manages" the debt but does not pay it back, wastes more, but just adds this to existing debt...eventually no egomaniacs left and club folds.

[upgotheheads]

Founded 1874.

[iantjambo]

Their manager has resigned.

[Skivingatwork]

If reports are to believed then Bury and Bolton are the tip of the iceberg in England.

[FORTHCLYDE]

On 20/08/2019 at 15:26, Spellczech said:

Problem is that clubs are companies so "owners" leave the debt in the company. When they lose interest they sell to the next egomaniac who wants the glamour of "owning" a club, but the new owner just pays a notional pound and the debt transfers over with the stadium and other assets. New owner "manages" the debt but does not pay it back, wastes more, but just adds this to existing debt...eventually no egomaniacs left and club folds.

This is what happened to Bury going bust on Friday.

[Tynieman]

I've always felt that there should be a cap in transfer fees, as as well as wages across UEFA leagues. At most, a player should cost no more than say 5million, with wages that could be offered potentially say 30k at most per week. 

 

I know it's a radical solution but proper football clubs are now going down the drain. Money really has ruined all competition across Europe.

 

I have a relative who is a celtic fan (I know), who suggests club's like Bournemouth etc are bigger than the likes of us Aberdeen etc.

 

They're not, it's all because they play in the richest league in Europe.

 

History etc doesn't mean much these days.

 

As I say, money is ruining the game we love and most leagues have one or two winners, the Champions League in my opinion is boring (by which I mean very rarely do small teams qualify), and the list goes on. As I say I just feel the game isn't what it was anymore. I suppose that's like anything when money becomes the main goal.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Tynieman

[Spellczech]

10 minutes ago, FORTHCLYDE said:

This is what happened to Bury going bust on Friday.

Standard line is that the debt was inherited and not "on their watch"...Vlad could fairly use that one. We had the same £28m of debt when he left as when he arrived, even though he kept paying off his own debt with debt for equity swaps during his time here. 

 

The irony of Big Sam lambasting the owners of Bolton is that the £200m debt they are struggling under is the same £200m he got in his budget and paid to French WC winners and African magicians 20 years ago...

[Locky]

On 19/08/2019 at 22:21, Serge Pizzorno said:

What’s happening to Bolton and Bury is absolutely sickening when you look at the money in the top flight. 

 

These are the true English clubs with a loyal fan base, not tourist attraction clubs. 

It is sad, especially when you look at Bury and Bolton, and their proximity to the likes of City, United and Liverpool.

 

Be curious to know the financial situations of a lot of clubs in the EFL. Sunderland are another who surely can't be far away if they don't go up soon. 2nd season in League One is already looking tough, and still forking out £25k+ on players like McGeady.

[Bazzas right boot]

On 19/08/2019 at 22:44, Seymour M Hersh said:

I suspect there are a fair number of clubs in the lower leagues in England who are on the verge of bankruptcy. 

 

 

This is a truth. 

 

How football clubs can operate at a loss down there and continue to buy new players is beyond me. 

 

 

With the money about down there, it shouldn't happen to any club, the top clubs are greedy across the globe tho. 

 

However, I have no sympathy for a club that overspend then goes tits up. It's a bad business model and clubs ought to know better now. 

 

As always a Shame for non football playing staff and fans. 

[jamboinglasgow]

On 20/08/2019 at 15:26, Spellczech said:

Problem is that clubs are companies so "owners" leave the debt in the company. When they lose interest they sell to the next egomaniac who wants the glamour of "owning" a club, but the new owner just pays a notional pound and the debt transfers over with the stadium and other assets. New owner "manages" the debt but does not pay it back, wastes more, but just adds this to existing debt...eventually no egomaniacs left and club folds.

 

Yup, owners want the fun of playing owner but leave the club to burden the debt. The fact you have Premier league clubs who have been bought so they can be used as ways to loan money for the owners needs or wants outside of football and club has the debt due to the huge amounts of money in the Premier league show problems.

[jamboinglasgow]

44 minutes ago, Skivingatwork said:

If reports are to believed then Bury and Bolton are the tip of the iceberg in England.

 

Yup, a real problem. Remember seeing something talk about the lack of money in League 1 and 2, with fans leaving and the younger generations watching the Premier league instead means that they become less and less financially stable. The Premier league is proving to be sucking everything out of these clubs, its the promise land but to get there requires vast amounts. Then clubs can be lucky and get up first time after spending much more then they can afford, but more likely they try season after season on the hope it will work. Build up the debt to scary levels, hoping that this year will be their year and they get into Premier league and be able to bring that debt down (except wages go flying up, new recruits needed and if they go down they spend again so the debt is not properly serviced.)

 

Then in the past if you needed the money you could rely on your youth system. With Premier league clubs paying 7 figures for 14 year olds. Clubs could stabilise with that. But the Premier League brought in new rules limiting how much compensation they had to pay to these clubs. Meaning they could lose top players for a tenth of the amount they got before.

 

English football is a mess and we are starting to see this reaching the surface. As much as Scottish football has its faults, and we would want to see the league having more money and more balance, the league seems much more financially stable.

[Fort Vallance]

Even before Sky money there was always a huge gulf down there between the big clubs and the rest. The difference then was that the top clubs bought from the lower leagues and it filtered down. Now the cash goes mainly abroad to agents, "superstars" and already rich clubs in the big 5 leagues. Eventually out of the game completely.

[RobNox]

1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

This is a truth. 

 

How football clubs can operate at a loss down there and continue to buy new players is beyond me. 

 

 

With the money about down there, it shouldn't happen to any club, the top clubs are greedy across the globe tho. 

 

However, I have no sympathy for a club that overspend then goes tits up. It's a bad business model and clubs ought to know better now. 

 

As always a Shame for non football playing staff and fans. 

 

They are obviously following the Sevco model!  Never made a profit since their inception in 2012, but still throwing money around on players.

 

Thankfully at Hearts, we have an owner who has as one of her guiding principles that we must live within our means as a club.  Posted profits every year since Ann took control.