Souttar transfer speculation ( edited )

[Thomaso]

£5m!  Just imagine what Levein would do in the transfer market with £5m!

[fabienleclerq]

The sell on or promotion clauses are key if we sell him, they will be worth potentially as much if not more than the initial fee. 

 

I think we should be looking to sell him in the summer if we want the maximum for him. I think there will be a ceiling height from teams like ourselves but £5m is reasonable. If he was playing down sown you could quadruple that. 

 

On the scouting policy, we need to pick up players with potential in our league. Mcginn has the potential to make hibs a lot of money on top of his transfer fee. 

[stevie1874]

5 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

The sell on or promotion clauses are key if we sell him, they will be worth potentially as much if not more than the initial fee. 

 

I think we should be looking to sell him in the summer if we want the maximum for him. I think there will be a ceiling height from teams like ourselves but £5m is reasonable. If he was playing down sown you could quadruple that. 

 

On the scouting policy, we need to pick up players with potential in our league. Mcginn has the potential to make hibs a lot of money on top of his transfer fee. 

Nobody in England pays a lot of money for someone who falls on his arse  all the time and who’s passing is questionable for a midfielder. English Championship is his peak.  

[Mikey1874]

2 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

Nobody in England pays a lot of money for someone who falls on his arse  all the time and who’s passing is questionable for a midfielder. English Championship is his peak.  

 

Aston Villa are good prospects for Play Offs. 10 wins in a row since Grealish back from injury. The form side.

 

McGinn might not need to be bought to play in Premiership. 

[amadjambo]

5 hours ago, Finlay James said:

 

Im confused, is it therefore good or bad to bring in good players?  Berra, Lafferty, Naismith, Souttar are all excellent signings but somehow making good signings is now being used as a stick to beat Levein with?

That’s not what I’m saying at all. Of course it is great to bring in good players. But surely you must agree that we’ve brought in a hell of a lot of dross too. My point is that our scouting system seems incapable of consistently finding good players. There wouldn’t have been much need to scout guys like Berra, Naismith, Lafferty, and Souttar as Levein would have known exactly what they were capable of. But there’s an awful lot of other signings been made that were not up to scratch.

 

Not using anything as a stick to beat anyone with. Our scouting has been honking and probably consists of someone sitting in a room watching wyscout videos and reading stats. I highly doubt anyone went to watch guys like Oshaniwa, Martin, Vanacek, Grezlak etc etc in the flesh. Had they done so these players surely wouldn’t have been signed. As a club we have either gotten lazy, or become far too heavily reliant on more “modern” scouting techniques.

[Unknown user]

36 minutes ago, rick witter said:

How come every time we come up against Rangers he looks like a scared wee boy. Souttar has a long long way to go before he could play in the premiership. 

He can get there definitely but would be better staying at Hearts to improve on his weaknesses. 

I'm starting to wonder about John, all the ingredients are there yet I see the 7th best goals against in the league, then the rangers have enough room to drive a bus down the centre of our defence and I wonder if he has the understanding to be as good as we think he can be. 

I dunno, probably nothing, tough season.

[inspector]

Quick question as I can't be bothered going through the thread. Did Dundee United negotiate a sell-on clause for Souttar?

[stevie1874]

22 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Aston Villa are good prospects for Play Offs. 10 wins in a row since Grealish back from injury. The form side.

 

McGinn might not need to be bought to play in Premiership. 

He might get to play in premiership but nobody’s going to splash serious cash on someone with his limited ability. Watching him for Scotland is painful. 

[ramrod]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Honestly the only player in the current squad I’d be sad to lose.

And Haring surely ? 

[NB GIN]

52 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

£5m!  Just imagine what Levein would do in the transfer market with £5m!

Scary thinking isn’t it 

[rudi must stay]

Anything above £3 million is crazy. Accept instantly IMO, sure CL knows a good young Scottish centre back to replace him

[Mikey1874]

29 minutes ago, amadjambo said:

That’s not what I’m saying at all. Of course it is great to bring in good players. But surely you must agree that we’ve brought in a hell of a lot of dross too. My point is that our scouting system seems incapable of consistently finding good players. There wouldn’t have been much need to scout guys like Berra, Naismith, Lafferty, and Souttar as Levein would have known exactly what they were capable of. But there’s an awful lot of other signings been made that were not up to scratch.

 

Not using anything as a stick to beat anyone with. Our scouting has been honking and probably consists of someone sitting in a room watching wyscout videos and reading stats. I highly doubt anyone went to watch guys like Oshaniwa, Martin, Vanacek, Grezlak etc etc in the flesh. Had they done so these players surely wouldn’t have been signed. As a club we have either gotten lazy, or become far too heavily reliant on more “modern” scouting techniques.

 

I think the difference will be young players coming through. Which we've not really had. 

 

Outside the big spending clubs every successful club needs at least a few good young players. 

 

If Cochrane can come in and show his potential we have a chance. Guys like Connor Smith or Chris Hamilton might be a bit away but if another couple come in backed up by the better experienced players we have a chance.

 

And the fans back the team better with homegrown youngsters coming in and doing well. 

[Lfhearts]

Think we will settle for 2m plus a decent sell on clause.

[OTT]

24 minutes ago, rudi must stay said:

Anything above £3 million is crazy. Accept instantly IMO, sure CL knows a good young Scottish centre back to replace him

 

That, uh.. isn't how you negotiate. 

 

If any club is prepared to pay £3m then more will be too. Push as high as we can get it assuming the move suits the player.

[portobellojambo1]

I still don't think we will sell him this Summer. He still has learning to do and the thing is he knows that himself. He does like to have the ball on the ground when looking to go forward and I think for our defenders they've all had to change how they have played for a fair part of this season. It is noticeable when all teams are putting pressure on our back 4 how they actually do it. They crowd Souttar and the full backs if they move infield and are always looking for our defenders to play the ball to Christophe Berra, for him to then launch it forward. In saying that I also feel a bit sorry for Christophe, He hasn't looked fully fit since returning from his early season injury and is a lot less inclined to look to stop the ball and play it into anyone in midfield (although only Djoum has ever been the man who has often made himself available). Instead he has often tried to look for the furthest forward player and on a large percentage of occasions the ball has come back towards us fairly quickly. John needs another season, possibly 2 to continue learning before he moves down South. And I still believe we will get very good money for him.

Edited April 24, 2019 by portobellojambo1

[Hood09]

41 minutes ago, inspector said:

Quick question as I can't be bothered going through the thread. Did Dundee United negotiate a sell-on clause for Souttar?

That is a good question anyone know?

[fabienleclerq]

1 hour ago, stevie1874 said:

Nobody in England pays a lot of money for someone who falls on his arse  all the time and who’s passing is questionable for a midfielder. English Championship is his peak.  

 

Villa fans love him, could get their poty. He's a few games from the Premier league. 

[Section Q]

4 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Depends who we spend it on.  I doubt he will be the one choosing the targets next season. Just a feeling. 

£5m would go a long way towards our wage bill over three years or so.

[fabienleclerq]

55 minutes ago, inspector said:

Quick question as I can't be bothered going through the thread. Did Dundee United negotiate a sell-on clause for Souttar?

 

Think we only signed him for £150k so you'd imagine one was included, if not they've been silly! 

[Cruyff Turn]

7 minutes ago, Section Q said:

£5m would go a long way towards our wage bill over three years or so.

It would, but then we’d just sign 40 players on free transfers and 30 of them will be shite. 

If we had that money to spend and there is a Glen Kamara or Jordan Jones kicking about, we should be using that money to bring in that kind of player who is proven quality, instead of pissing it down the drain on wyscout punts like the El Hasanoui’s, Amankwaa’s and Martins of this world.

[Cruyff Turn]

11 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

Think we only signed him for £150k so you'd imagine one was included, if not they've been silly! 

It would be hilarious if they didn’t and we made a £5million pound profit on him ?

[fabienleclerq]

1 minute ago, Cruyff Turn said:

It would be hilarious if they didn’t and we made a £5million pound profit on him ?

 

Something is niggling me it was confirmed no release clause or we bought it out but I doubt we would hear about it. 

 

Would be a shambles by Steven Thompson if he's let that slip though?

[stevie1874]

14 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

Villa fans love him, could get their poty. He's a few games from the Premier league. 

Villa are a big club who have hit hard times through relegation. Should they get promoted then I would imagine they will spend to upgrade a few players they have and McGinn would fall in that bracket. He’s just not good enough for English premiership, running about daft only gets you so far. His Scotland performances show he’s bang average. 

[Pasquale for King]

5 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Not if McCarthy has given it his blessing, which he had. And in any case do you honestly believe that illegal approaches don’t happen in football? More like the legal ones are rarer. 

In the case of Berra both the DoF and head coach at the time saw him as a must have future signing. Head coach wasn’t Cathro. 

It depends on when he was approached and yes I know illegal approaches happen. As you say McCarthy had to agree not to invoke the option of another year and it maybe played a part in his sacking, landed on his feet though. 

[rudi must stay]

40 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

That, uh.. isn't how you negotiate. 

 

If any club is prepared to pay £3m then more will be too. Push as high as we can get it assuming the move suits the player.

So far Derby are interested that's it. There's no queue

 

Get the money in and use it over the summer 

 

?

[Cruyff Turn]

22 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

Something is niggling me it was confirmed no release clause or we bought it out but I doubt we would hear about it. 

 

Would be a shambles by Steven Thompson if he's let that slip though?

I hope it’s true and Tbf, they don’t deserve anything anyway. They were on the verge of ruining him and CL & Hearts resurrected his career. The £150k or whatever we paid for him was fair at the time. 

[fabienleclerq]

11 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

I hope it’s true and Tbf, they don’t deserve anything anyway. They were on the verge of ruining him and CL & Hearts resurrected his career. The £150k or whatever we paid for him was fair at the time. 

 

Nah they don't, they shattered his confidence. 

[Brighton Jambo]

7 hours ago, Barasa said:

Rubbish. 

 

He's a classy player and wouldn't look out of place for a team at the lower end of the English Premiership. Folk are so quick to talk down the standard of football up here - of course there's a gap in quality, but it's nowhere near the chasm some make out. There's players a lot worse than Souttar who have made a decent career down south.

No sorry that’s not right, he is a long way off that quality yet.  My other team Brighton are hopeless at the moment and will be very lucky not to go down but he wouldn’t get close to getting in our first team.  If he wouldn’t get in our team he sure as hell wouldn’t get in any other premier league teams.  He would need a couple of seasons in the championship to really develop him then I agree he could push on.  Even Van Dijk only went to Southampton and Souttar isn’t in the same league as him as a player.  

Edited April 24, 2019 by Brighton Jambo

[buzzbomb1958]

2 hours ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

£5m!  Just imagine what Levein would do in the transfer market with £5m!

Aye Hector Brocklebank would be delivering huddies by the lorry load up the front or up the back

[Section Q]

1 hour ago, Cruyff Turn said:

It would, but then we’d just sign 40 players on free transfers and 30 of them will be shite. 

If we had that money to spend and there is a Glen Kamara or Jordan Jones kicking about, we should be using that money to bring in that kind of player who is proven quality, instead of pissing it down the drain on wyscout punts like the El Hasanoui’s, Amankwaa’s and Martins of this world.

Signing these type of players would blow apart our wages policy.

[Alan_R]

3 minutes ago, Section Q said:

Signing these type of players would blow apart our wages policy.

would it though. The last poster wasn't giving literal examples, i took it to mean players performing well in the spfl for so called smaller clubs.

Id rather a smaller pool of dependable players than what we skoosh on a sizeable squad that still leaves us short.

[Section Q]

6 minutes ago, Alan_R said:

would it though. The last poster wasn't giving literal examples, i took it to mean players performing well in the spfl for so called smaller clubs.

Id rather a smaller pool of dependable players than what we skoosh on a sizeable squad that still leaves us short.

Quality rather than quantity makes sense.

[Bazzas right boot]

23 minutes ago, Section Q said:

Signing these type of players would blow apart our wages policy.

 

 

Not so sure. 

 

I'd rather have a core of 7/8 proven players and supplemented by youth and a few punts than a 10/12 punts. 

 

Players like Sammon, Djoum, Osh won't be cheap. 

 

Would rather 1 good player than 2/3 average or punt types. 

 

Our youth can fill out the squad. 

 

We'd need to be careful, but the Dundee lad was always a good shout. 

 

 

[JackLadd]

Levein could take Ambrose on loan if he went to Derby as part of the deal. Not a bad utility defender. 

[Pasquale for King]

12 hours ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

No he couldn’t.  He doesn’t really stand out in any big match for the team 6th in the Scottish Premiership.  When did he have a man of the match performance game against any of the old firm or even a derby?  Comparisons to Gordon is ludicrous.  He’s a top player for us but he would get rag-dolled down South in the Top 6 Championship.  Paterson was ready to leave for that level as he was stand out every match, Souttar isn’t. 

Fair point.

[Finlay James]

7 hours ago, stevie1874 said:

Nobody in England pays a lot of money for someone who falls on his arse  all the time and who’s passing is questionable for a midfielder. English Championship is his peak.  

 

I always thought that too but after listening to a West Midlands FM phone in recently (I work in Birmingham), they love him down here and reckon he's worth £20 million.

 

A change of scene suits some people and he's now playing with decent players.  He only looked useless at Hibs because of who he was playing alongside.

[Peebo]

9 hours ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

£5m!  Just imagine what Levein would do in the transfer market with £5m!

25 year contract for Sean Clare, would be my guess. 

[Russ1977]

9 hours ago, stevie1874 said:

Villa are a big club who have hit hard times through relegation. Should they get promoted then I would imagine they will spend to upgrade a few players they have and McGinn would fall in that bracket. He’s just not good enough for English premiership, running about daft only gets you so far. His Scotland performances show he’s bang average. 

I’ve watched a few villa games this season and McGinn has been an absolute stand out each time. He’s seems to have improved massively since leaving Hibs. I can easily see someone down south splashing out a decent amount for him. 

[Dalstonjambo]

11 hours ago, stevie1874 said:

Nobody in England pays a lot of money for someone who falls on his arse  all the time and who’s passing is questionable for a midfielder. English Championship is his peak.  

My father in law who has a season ticket for Villa says that outside of grealish he is their best player. Given they have won 10 in a row in that league, he might end up somewhere else. His performances for Scotland are terrible however. 

He still gets booked every week though.

[chester copperpot]

16 minutes ago, Russ1977 said:

I’ve watched a few villa games this season and McGinn has been an absolute stand out each time. He’s seems to have improved massively since leaving Hibs. I can easily see someone down south splashing out a decent amount for him. 

 

 

 

I reckon he's been their best player this season tbh.

 

Anyone who thinks he's gash has the maroon tinted specs on. He's been brilliant for Villa.

[Barasa]

9 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

No sorry that’s not right, he is a long way off that quality yet.  My other team Brighton are hopeless at the moment and will be very lucky not to go down but he wouldn’t get close to getting in our first team.  If he wouldn’t get in our team he sure as hell wouldn’t get in any other premier league teams.  He would need a couple of seasons in the championship to really develop him then I agree he could push on.  Even Van Dijk only went to Southampton and Souttar isn’t in the same league as him as a player.  

Fair enough - but are Brighton's 2 centre backs not considered their best and most important players (other than Murray perhaps)? I wouldn't say Souttar is much worse than a lot of centre halves in that league - guys like Cathcart, Tomkins etc. and anyone from Fulham or Huddersfield. 

 

He maybe isn't ready for the Premiership yet but I think he would be a good, cheap investment for most clubs in that league. Look at Rob Holding at Arsenal for example - signed from struggling Wigan for £2 million, eased in and then was becoming a reasonable player for them this year pre injury. 

[indianajones]

Total football manager question here but I thought % fees to old clubs are part of a players contract and when the player signs a new contract at the same club it becomes void? 

 

 

[reaths17]

24 minutes ago, Russ1977 said:

I’ve watched a few villa games this season and McGinn has been an absolute stand out each time. He’s seems to have improved massively since leaving Hibs. I can easily see someone down south splashing out a decent amount for him. 

no he hasn't, just everybody joining in with the doncasters and such running our game, dragging it down at every opportunity with their negativity and uselessness.

 

our players aren't as pish as made out. andy Robertson didn't look anything great up here and mcginn was hibs best player by miles.

 

people, ready to give souttar away for any old bag of washers are idiots. instead of low balling offers, try looking on the sunny side and bum him up(ooh er misses) he's nae baresi but he's still very good and can only improve, worth every penny and more  of what their bumming McKenna up, looks the better of the 2 everytime I've seen either.

 

instead of knocking everything hearts try looking on the bright side, to many negative,moaning faced, miserable, whinging erses following hearts these days

[fabienleclerq]

5 minutes ago, indianajones said:

Total football manager question here but I thought % fees to old clubs are part of a players contract and when the player signs a new contract at the same club it becomes void? 

 

 

 

No chance! Surely the clubs would sign them then give them a new contract a month later! 

[Jammy T]

11 hours ago, ramrod said:

And Haring surely ? 

Naismith?

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Important to remember as well, Hearts stand to gain a lot if we keep Souttar playing every game here for next season, he takes another step in maturing, gets a few more caps and becomes a real force in the league playing a leading role in a Hearts charge to a 2nd or 3rd place finish. He still has that next step to make, playing that full injury free season consistently. This league season has been a disappointment but it’s a new start next season and we will be aiming to get up there around where Rangers Aberdeen and Kilmarnock have been this season.

 

We we have no reason to sell Souttar for anything less than around £5m silly money this summer really. If he had 1 year left on his deal maybe £2m buys him, but with 3 years on his contract it’s got to be a lot better than that. 

[Mister Dee]

Had to laugh at the BBC 'Gossip' page :

"Derby County could beat Rangers to the signing of Hearts defenderJohn Souttar this summer."

 

Which is like saying :

Hearts COULD beat Juventus to the signing of  Arsenal midfielder Aaron Ramsay this Summer.

???

 

 

 

 

[Cruyff Turn]

10 hours ago, Section Q said:

Signing these type of players would blow apart our wages policy.

We’ll need to push our top wage up at some stage otherwise we’ll always be a mid table team. Good players aren’t cheap but i’d rather have good expensive players than 5 or 10 shite ones on 2-4K a week. 

 

The wage policy is a myth. We weren’t paying Lafferty sweeties and we’re certainly not paying Naismith buttons either. 

[Russ1977]

3 hours ago, reaths17 said:

no he hasn't, just everybody joining in with the doncasters and such running our game, dragging it down at every opportunity with their negativity and uselessness.

 

our players aren't as pish as made out. andy Robertson didn't look anything great up here and mcginn was hibs best player by miles.

 

people, ready to give souttar away for any old bag of washers are idiots. instead of low balling offers, try looking on the sunny side and bum him up(ooh er misses) he's nae baresi but he's still very good and can only improve, worth every penny and more  of what their bumming McKenna up, looks the better of the 2 everytime I've seen either.

 

instead of knocking everything hearts try looking on the bright side, to many negative,moaning faced, miserable, whinging erses following hearts these days

I hope your last paragraph wasn’t aimed at me as I didn’t even quote anything to do with hearts in my post. 

[BelgeJambo]

On 24/04/2019 at 13:06, BelgeJambo said:

Derby are under threat of a transfer embargo, so can't see them having 5 million to cough up unless by some miracle they get promoted to the EPL.

 

And, the Deed lot haven't got it

 

Record stirring the pot

Might have to retract this.

The threat of the transfer embargo seems to have been dodged by selling their stadium to the owner for 80 million and thus turning another loss season into a profit 

 

80 million for Pride Park seems good business for the owner.  Good facilities and smart stadium

Edited April 25, 2019 by BelgeJambo