Hearts. A difficult club to play for

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, Danny Wilde said:

Complete opposite, the easiest club to play for. Most pros passing through here these days just have to hold a Hearts scarf above their head and mouth off some platitudes about "3rd biggest club". Job done. After that these same pros can coast through a season without any great demands being made upon them, because ultimately whether Hearts finish 3rd, 5th or 6th makes zip-all difference to them. 100K+ salary with little personal pressure. If you're a young player with decent prospects then someone will come along and make a £2M offer, to which Hearts will offer some token public resistance, whilst privately making no real effort to secure your future to Tynie. This all comes from the top of course, board and management...there is no ambition at the club, no long term planning or strategy for actual on the pitch success. We have become (again...)  a regular and easy mark for the old firm, you can save yourself the bother of attending these matches now, given that we regularly bend over for a series of 3-0 or 3-1 defeats. Cup-final will be no different. There's a heck of a lot to thank Anne Budge for, but we're treading water in mid-table from now until doomsday if and until we ever see genuinely ambitious leadership again at the club. 

 

When have we sold a young player for £2 million?

[communist]

All we ask for is a bit of desire and pride for the shirt. Give 100% and you might not succeed but you'll get support from the stands. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

11 minutes ago, communist said:

All we ask for is a bit of desire and pride for the shirt. Give 100% and you might not succeed but you'll get support from the stands. 

 

That's basically it. Said to the wife if we'd been bemoaning a loss after great effort it would be annoying but today there was none of that and that's more than annoying. And don't tell me for a minute that shower of bigots in blue are a great team they're not. We made them look so much better than they are. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Seymour M Hersh

[jambopilms]

Getting on young players backs is poor.

[Shooter McGavin]

We’ve got every right to demand better.

 

Over the last 7/8 years or so we’ve backed the club to the hill on numerous occasions. Backing that not many clubs would have received from their respective fan base.

 

We don’t expect to he world beaters, we just want a solid team that’ll turn up and give 100% and look like they actually enjoy playing and want to attack teams, we’re not seeing that at the moment. 

[Jarhead]

38 minutes ago, communist said:

All we ask for is a bit of desire and pride for the shirt. Give 100% and you might not succeed but you'll get support from the stands. 

Agree completely. 

 

Take a player like Uche, technically no where near some of the players we’ve had in the past but he never hides, battles constantly and even if it’s not working he keeps going back for more so even when it’s not his day the fans still give him their backing. 

[maroonnicky63]

4 hours ago, Baxfee said:

I actually find us as a support embarrassing. We boo our players and write some off after 1 game. We then justify our actions by saying the players have no heart, drive, blah blah. I’m sorry, but we are the problem and if I was a player, I’d seriously think twice about signing for hearts. Sad day to put that down in black and white. 

What a hard post but difficult to defend 

[It should have been ten]

4 hours ago, Baxfee said:

I actually find us as a support embarrassing. We boo our players and write some off after 1 game. We then justify our actions by saying the players have no heart, drive, blah blah. I’m sorry, but we are the problem and if I was a player, I’d seriously think twice about signing for hearts. Sad day to put that down in black and white. 

 

This! Sad but true. Meant to be there supporting the team but the only noise from our fans is to moan and boo. Exception being when we score, there’ll be a quick blast of “Hearts, Hearts, glorious Hearts...” which tails of after the 5th line of the song then back to silence again or a wee rendition of the Olly Lee song...Olly Lee of all players too. People can blame Ann Budge, Craig Levein and the players as much as they like but it’s been like that for years, long before we went administration and they were on the scene. Makes me laugh that Tynecastle is meant to be the best stadium in Scotland for atmosphere, must be coming from the away end then. Been following Hearts since the early 80’s, the difference in the vocal support from then to now is staggering and pathetic. 

This is the same support who off the field got behind the club in a tremendous effort to save us from extinction. No matter who the manager is or what players we have things won’t change, been like this for far too long now. 

Off the field we have the best supporters in the world but in the stands it’s a whole different ball game. 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by It should have been ten

[Gambo]

Hearts are not hard to play for, Levein is.

[shaun.lawson]

26 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

We’ve got every right to demand better.

 

Over the last 7/8 years or so we’ve backed the club to the hill on numerous occasions. Backing that not many clubs would have received from their respective fan base.

 

This is a good point and I think it's a genuine problem. In a sense, Hearts fans have a right to demand more than any other non-OF club precisely because many Hearts fans are paying twice over: for an ST and their FOH subs. Yet Aberdeen's wage bill being comfortably more than ours says otherwise. 

[graygo]

1 minute ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

This is a good point and I think it's a genuine problem. In a sense, Hearts fans have a right to demand more than any other non-OF club precisely because many Hearts fans are paying twice over: for an ST and their FOH subs. Yet Aberdeen's wage bill being comfortably more than ours says otherwise. 

 

Shaun surely to Christ you realise that any monies going into the Foundation are not going to the team, not yet anyway.

[shaun.lawson]

12 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Shaun surely to Christ you realise that any monies going into the Foundation are not going to the team, not yet anyway.

 

Yes of course. But these fans are still paying twice over. What other fanbase is?

[graygo]

2 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Yes of course. But these fans are still paying twice over. What other fanbase is?

 

But you said that because they pay twice that gives them a right to demand more? That makes absolutely no sense if that extra money is not going towards the playing staff.

The fact that Aberdeen have a higher wage bill than us surely means that we can't expect more than them.

[jambocub]

5 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

I’ve followed hearts since the mid 80’s , and where we are now is that it is quoted that we are an amazing club to play for when all is well, but we are the hardest to play for when we are toiling (from the stands)/.  Fair enough I’d say. It’s hard though, since the days of Levein, Robbo, Colquhoun, Davie Mac; skacel and Hartley we don’t have players of that ilk. 

Are  we right to be so dismissive of our squad now ? 

Levein has said on numerous occasions that we are a hard support to please. 

do we over expect ? 

Yet he persists on playing very little attacking football which would get all fans behind the team from the start of each game

[martoon]

There's nothing wrong with the fans. What have we done wrong to create the shitfest that's served up on an almost weekly basis? 

 

The dugout and boardroom is where the problem lies. The head coach, his laughable cast of Pep's and the owners refusal/inability to recognise that it's not working. 

 

Even if by some miracle we win the Cup final (stop sniggering at the back) it won't change a thing. The dreadful lack of drive, urgency and feeble performances will persist. 

 

Hearts have a long history of under achievement. Titles lost, ludicrous semi final defeats in the last 30+ years etc., but that doesn't mean it should always be so. With the cash flowing into the club, from the blameless support, and the right people in the dugout we could be laying foundations that would see the club getting to more Cup finals, at least troubling Celtic and, ultimately, winning silverware more frequently. 

 

It won't happen while Craig Levein continues to have a free hand. His wasting of cash is as alarming as our future prospects under him. We're in a Cup final, man, we should be buzzing. Many of us clearly are not. 

 

Sorry for the ranting tone but I think today I reached the end of my rope. 

[rudi must stay]

5 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

I’ve followed hearts since the mid 80’s , and where we are now is that it is quoted that we are an amazing club to play for when all is well, but we are the hardest to play for when we are toiling (from the stands)/.  Fair enough I’d say. It’s hard though, since the days of Levein, Robbo, Colquhoun, Davie Mac; skacel and Hartley we don’t have players of that ilk. 

Are  we right to be so dismissive of our squad now ? 

Levein has said on numerous occasions that we are a hard support to please. 

do we over expect ? 

 

JJ said you need a certain swagger to do well in a Hearts shirt IIRC and said he expected Kevin Kyle to do well because he had one, same with Rudi

 

Yes I do think we have been unfair on alot of players over the years, but it's not going to change anytime soon

[Kiwidoug]

We are a biggish city and region club with a terrific history.  We have every right to be demanding but are nowhere near as demanding as the OF.

 

Our recruitment over the last few years has bern significantly woeful.  The Livvy 5-0 was the lowest point and that should have seen Levein out the door.

 

Imo he is no longer a good manager despite his best intentions.  He is now arrogantly saying he is going nowhere. The club should be thinking about his replacement now and he should be gone by the end of May whether or not we win the Cup.

 

 

[Stephen Muddie]

6 hours ago, Bozi said:

We are demanding, we do have certain expectations that we are nowhere near. 

The thing is though it's not about the quality of the player we just need to look at guys like Sandison, brellier, macfarlane, johnsson, guys who were limited footballers but gave every ounce, every game. 

 

The current bunch have no heart, no passion, no drive and that is the point at which you lose the support 

Absolutely brilliant post.

 

Right now we are a laughing stock. We are Hearts. Not acceptable 

[Hearts1975]

5 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

I’ve followed hearts since the mid 80’s , and where we are now is that it is quoted that we are an amazing club to play for when all is well, but we are the hardest to play for when we are toiling (from the stands)/.  Fair enough I’d say. It’s hard though, since the days of Levein, Robbo, Colquhoun, Davie Mac; skacel and Hartley we don’t have players of that ilk. 

Are  we right to be so dismissive of our squad now ? 

Levein has said on numerous occasions that we are a hard support to please. 

do we over expect ? 

Don’t think we over expect ... I think putting everything aside and during the Vlad reign it gave us all a kind of unrealistic expectation of players we saw wearing the shirt but couldn’t afford nowadays - the likes of skacel brellier fysas jankauskas bednar etc 

 

but if U look at all of the other players we had and that u mentioned we had these players in times of financial uncertainty and what players they were - I keep hearing this line being trotted out that we can’t compete financially with England’s lower tier etc but we couldn’t compete back then either but managed to sign some real diamonds as players - I mean, even JC before he came to us was never the player was initially and what he turned out to be in the end - they are there, u just need to find them before someone else does - bringing good youth players through into the 1st team means there is less risk and less players u have to sign in the transfer market 

 

we are virtually debt free thanks to the FOH and the support and we have a head start on all of the other teams exc the arse cheeks financially - still like the model of investing in the youth set up and bringing players through to sell on down south, and not west - but we need the right type of people at the helm to do this and in order to capatilise on the opportunity

 

I don’t see any consistency at all at the moment - one week in a good 3 or 4 weeks we will play well for a half and that’s it - we still regularly pull out a big support even when not doing well - look at Aberdeen - were shit, not doing well - poor support - then started doing well but attendances didn’t reflect in the improvement on the pitch 

 

One final point re the hardest support to please .. if I was a player I would be saying to myself if I and my team mates give blood for the cause every time we step out at Tynie this place will rock and get behind us - fact - when going well best atmosphere in Scotland - I mean, having players come off the park and smiling and talking away to Deidco players after the game after being beat is a sad reality of where some of our 1st team is in terms of mentality - they should have been straight down the tunnel heads down - acting like that isn’t what it takes to play for the jersey  and is an acceptance that it’s ok to play poorly - it’s ok to play poorly now and again as long as u don’t smile away when it happens - really feckin annoys me when this happens 

 

if CL thinks we are a hard support to please he should consider the way we play and set up and change it. If he does this then he will change his mind about this very quickly. Mediocre performances is one thing but lack of effort and fight is unacceptable - whenever we have done we’ll in games it has always been games where we have played at an intense and high tempo getting on the oppositions faces yet why do we seldom see this style being played so much - the little things can and will make a big difference if implemented - will CL implement these changes, that’s another story 

 

anyway rant over sorry I’m probably way off the point you were making in the first place now ?

[Debut 4]

6 hours ago, Bozi said:

We are demanding, we do have certain expectations that we are nowhere near. 

The thing is though it's not about the quality of the player we just need to look at guys like Sandison, brellier, macfarlane, johnsson, guys who were limited footballers but gave every ounce, every game. 

 

The current bunch have no heart, no passion, no drive and that is the point at which you lose the support 

 

But I don’t think there’s anything wrong with demands.  It’s about pushing limits and it’s up to the manager to do that. 

 

Part of the problem is a section of the support always give it ...”oh well, we’ve not been 3rd every year/won cups every year/ get to Europe all the time” etc....

 

Attitudes rub off. Fans DO affect the club, maybe not wholly but as a club(fans and employees) harness the attitude together.

 

Whats the point in a great new stand and facilities, FOH money, and other initiatives if we just sit on our hands and don’t have the passion to push the club to levels it’s not sustained for years?  

 

 

[Alan_R]

No different from any other similar sized club In that respect.

 

Uche is a great example. Technically not the greatest but is well supported fr the stand for trying his best and showing a determined attitude. That's what most of the fans ask for at least, it's not exactly unreasonable to expect a bit effort

[Haken]

If the Hearts support is too demanding, go and play for and get paid by a less demanding support.  Like St Johnstone or Hamilton.  Enjoy.

[daftie]

For me, yesterday was worrying.  I knew we were going to get well beaten before the game started.  I live for a Saturday, or whenever we play, but yesterday was probably the first time ever I was actually bored out my box. I renewed season ticket last week, but this season has been a clusterfxxk and you just wonder why the hell do fans work hard and pay top dollar when so. Any players just don’t give a monkeys. 

[leginten]

7 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

 

But I don’t think there’s anything wrong with demands.  It’s about pushing limits and it’s up to the manager to do that. 

 

Part of the problem is a section of the support always give it ...”oh well, we’ve not been 3rd every year/won cups every year/ get to Europe all the time” etc....

 

Attitudes rub off. Fans DO affect the club, maybe not wholly but as a club(fans and employees) harness the attitude together.

 

Whats the point in a great new stand and facilities, FOH money, and other initiatives if we just sit on our hands and don’t have the passion to push the club to levels it’s not sustained for years?  

 

 

 

The people running the club have made it clear that they expect the fans to voice their opinions when performances are not good enough. At least they know the score on that front. There’s a pleasing simplicity to the fan/team relationship all around the globe. When fans know they’re being short-changed - and boy, were the Hearts supporters short-changed yesterday - they are vocal. Thankfully. You certainly wouldn’t want meek acceptance of the sort of utter shambles that was served up yesterday. What point would it serve? To make those in charge of the club think everything was actually fine when it’s clearly not?

 

The Hearts fans have, as usual, been tremendous this season. Out in their numbers. Actually patient and tolerant to a fault. There’s a poisonous, odious little clutch of posters on here - half of whom probably don’t even go to games - who are turning on the Hearts fans. These are the people who have been telling us since November that everything in the garden is rosy. Now that it has become clear that they know jack-shit about anything, they’re flailing around looking for others to blame. Reminds me of the Romanov era.

 

 

 

 

[UcheGang]

Football fans are fickle but we aren't asking to be Barcelona, it would be nice to attack teams and try and watch decent football. No point paying a million quid for a new pitch when the ball just gets hoofed everytime.

[leginten]

8 hours ago, martoon said:

There's nothing wrong with the fans. What have we done wrong to create the shitfest that's served up on an almost weekly basis? 

 

The dugout and boardroom is where the problem lies. The head coach, his laughable cast of Pep's and the owners refusal/inability to recognise that it's not working. 

 

Even if by some miracle we win the Cup final (stop sniggering at the back) it won't change a thing. The dreadful lack of drive, urgency and feeble performances will persist. 

 

Hearts have a long history of under achievement. Titles lost, ludicrous semi final defeats in the last 30+ years etc., but that doesn't mean it should always be so. With the cash flowing into the club, from the blameless support, and the right people in the dugout we could be laying foundations that would see the club getting to more Cup finals, at least troubling Celtic and, ultimately, winning silverware more frequently. 

 

It won't happen while Craig Levein continues to have a free hand. His wasting of cash is as alarming as our future prospects under him. We're in a Cup final, man, we should be buzzing. Many of us clearly are not. 

 

Sorry for the ranting tone but I think today I reached the end of my rope. 

 

Absolutely spot on. Every single word.

[1971fozzy]

8 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

Don’t think we over expect ... I think putting everything aside and during the Vlad reign it gave us all a kind of unrealistic expectation of players we saw wearing the shirt but couldn’t afford nowadays - the likes of skacel brellier fysas jankauskas bednar etc 

 

but if U look at all of the other players we had and that u mentioned we had these players in times of financial uncertainty and what players they were - I keep hearing this line being trotted out that we can’t compete financially with England’s lower tier etc but we couldn’t compete back then either but managed to sign some real diamonds as players - I mean, even JC before he came to us was never the player was initially and what he turned out to be in the end - they are there, u just need to find them before someone else does - bringing good youth players through into the 1st team means there is less risk and less players u have to sign in the transfer market 

 

we are virtually debt free thanks to the FOH and the support and we have a head start on all of the other teams exc the arse cheeks financially - still like the model of investing in the youth set up and bringing players through to sell on down south, and not west - but we need the right type of people at the helm to do this and in order to capatilise on the opportunity

 

I don’t see any consistency at all at the moment - one week in a good 3 or 4 weeks we will play well for a half and that’s it - we still regularly pull out a big support even when not doing well - look at Aberdeen - were shit, not doing well - poor support - then started doing well but attendances didn’t reflect in the improvement on the pitch 

 

One final point re the hardest support to please .. if I was a player I would be saying to myself if I and my team mates give blood for the cause every time we step out at Tynie this place will rock and get behind us - fact - when going well best atmosphere in Scotland - I mean, having players come off the park and smiling and talking away to Deidco players after the game after being beat is a sad reality of where some of our 1st team is in terms of mentality - they should have been straight down the tunnel heads down - acting like that isn’t what it takes to play for the jersey  and is an acceptance that it’s ok to play poorly - it’s ok to play poorly now and again as long as u don’t smile away when it happens - really feckin annoys me when this happens 

 

if CL thinks we are a hard support to please he should consider the way we play and set up and change it. If he does this then he will change his mind about this very quickly. Mediocre performances is one thing but lack of effort and fight is unacceptable - whenever we have done we’ll in games it has always been games where we have played at an intense and high tempo getting on the oppositions faces yet why do we seldom see this style being played so much - the little things can and will make a big difference if implemented - will CL implement these changes, that’s another story 

 

anyway rant over sorry I’m probably way off the point you were making in the first place now ?

 

Great post

[Debut 4]

14 minutes ago, leginten said:

 

The people running the club have made it clear that they expect the fans to voice their opinions when performances are not good enough. At least they know the score on that front. There’s a pleasing simplicity to the fan/team relationship all around the globe. When fans know they’re being short-changed - and boy, were the Hearts supporters short-changed yesterday - they are vocal. Thankfully. You certainly wouldn’t want meek acceptance of the sort of utter shambles that was served up yesterday. What point would it serve? To make those in charge of the club think everything was actually fine when it’s clearly not?

 

The Hearts fans have, as usual, been tremendous this season. Out in their numbers. Actually patient and tolerant to a fault. There’s a poisonous, odious little clutch of posters on here - half of whom probably don’t even go to games - who are turning on the Hearts fans. These are the people who have been telling us since November that everything in the garden is rosy. Now that it has become clear that they know jack-shit about anything, they’re flailing around looking for others to blame. Reminds me of the Romanov era.

 

 

 

 

[Gambo]

13 hours ago, Jammy T said:

Our fans financial support is fantastic

 

Is there a sense of entitlement now?

 

Has Tynecastle become less of a fortress because the fans attitude is counterproductive and speed at which they turn against the team is making it more difficult for the players?

 

Feels like it.

 

When Hearts win at Tynecastle now it is despite the fans not because of them IMO.

Always the fans fault eh?

 

I think you will find that if we win a game it is despite Levein, not because of Levein. Sucking the life out of the team and the support.

[Central Belt 1874]

8 hours ago, martoon said:

There's nothing wrong with the fans. What have we done wrong to create the shitfest that's served up on an almost weekly basis? 

 

The dugout and boardroom is where the problem lies. The head coach, his laughable cast of Pep's and the owners refusal/inability to recognise that it's not working. 

 

Even if by some miracle we win the Cup final (stop sniggering at the back) it won't change a thing. The dreadful lack of drive, urgency and feeble performances will persist. 

 

Hearts have a long history of under achievement. Titles lost, ludicrous semi final defeats in the last 30+ years etc., but that doesn't mean it should always be so. With the cash flowing into the club, from the blameless support, and the right people in the dugout we could be laying foundations that would see the club getting to more Cup finals, at least troubling Celtic and, ultimately, winning silverware more frequently. 

 

It won't happen while Craig Levein continues to have a free hand. His wasting of cash is as alarming as our future prospects under him. We're in a Cup final, man, we should be buzzing. Many of us clearly are not. 

 

Sorry for the ranting tone but I think today I reached the end of my rope. 

 

Great post. The bit in bold particularly.

 

 

20 minutes ago, leginten said:

 

The people running the club have made it clear that they expect the fans to voice their opinions when performances are not good enough. At least they know the score on that front. There’s a pleasing simplicity to the fan/team relationship all around the globe. When fans know they’re being short-changed - and boy, were the Hearts supporters short-changed yesterday - they are vocal. Thankfully. You certainly wouldn’t want meek acceptance of the sort of utter shambles that was served up yesterday. What point would it serve? To make those in charge of the club think everything was actually fine when it’s clearly not?

 

The Hearts fans have, as usual, been tremendous this season. Out in their numbers. Actually patient and tolerant to a fault. There’s a poisonous, odious little clutch of posters on here - half of whom probably don’t even go to games - who are turning on the Hearts fans. These are the people who have been telling us since November that everything in the garden is rosy. Now that it has become clear that they know jack-shit about anything, they’re flailing around looking for others to blame. Reminds me of the Romanov era.

 

 

 

 

 

Another good post. 

[Nookie Bear]

20 minutes ago, leginten said:

 

The people running the club have made it clear that they expect the fans to voice their opinions when performances are not good enough. At least they know the score on that front. There’s a pleasing simplicity to the fan/team relationship all around the globe. When fans know they’re being short-changed - and boy, were the Hearts supporters short-changed yesterday - they are vocal. Thankfully. You certainly wouldn’t want meek acceptance of the sort of utter shambles that was served up yesterday. What point would it serve? To make those in charge of the club think everything was actually fine when it’s clearly not?

 

The Hearts fans have, as usual, been tremendous this season. Out in their numbers. Actually patient and tolerant to a fault. There’s a poisonous, odious little clutch of posters on here - half of whom probably don’t even go to games - who are turning on the Hearts fans. These are the people who have been telling us since November that everything in the garden is rosy. Now that it has become clear that they know jack-shit about anything, they’re flailing around looking for others to blame. Reminds me of the Romanov era.

 

 

 

 

 

Spot on. 

 

 

[Nookie Bear]

Just now, Gambo said:

Always the fans fault eh?

 

I think you will find that if we win a game it is despite Levein, not because of Levein. Sucking the life out of the team and the support.

 

That Aberdeen game, for example,  was a typical Levein first half and then the referee pissed us off and we played a more naturally aggressive and attacking game that Aberdeen could not cope with. The fans were right into it, could see the effort and used the referee as a reason to create a cracking atmosphere. 

 

And then, next game, we go back to Leveinball. 

[soonbe110]

13 hours ago, Jammy T said:

Our fans financial support is fantastic

 

Is there a sense of entitlement now?

 

Has Tynecastle become less of a fortress because the fans attitude is counterproductive and speed at which they turn against the team is making it more difficult for the players?

 

Feels like it.

 

When Hearts win at Tynecastle now it is despite the fans not because of them IMO.

Absolutely. We are becoming more and more like Old Firm fans every year in terms of what we ‘deserve’. That word gets used more and more on here. We don’t really deserve anything. We should expect 100% effort, tactical awareness and fitness. We certainly don’t deserve it. Sadly becoming the type of support we used to, and still, detest. Sense of entitlement clearly there and growing. You just have to listen to comments around you at games. 

[It should have been ten]

7 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Absolutely. We are becoming more and more like Old Firm fans every year in terms of what we ‘deserve’. That word gets used more and more on here. We don’t really deserve anything. We should expect 100% effort, tactical awareness and fitness. We certainly don’t deserve it. Sadly becoming the type of support we used to, and still, detest. Sense of entitlement clearly there and growing. You just have to listen to comments around you at games. 

 

Spot on 

[CAI]

13 hours ago, Danny Wilde said:

Complete opposite, the easiest club to play for. Most pros passing through here these days just have to hold a Hearts scarf above their head and mouth off some platitudes about "3rd biggest club". Job done. After that these same pros can coast through a season without any great demands being made upon them, because ultimately whether Hearts finish 3rd, 5th or 6th makes zip-all difference to them. 100K+ salary with little personal pressure. If you're a young player with decent prospects then someone will come along and make a £2M offer, to which Hearts will offer some token public resistance, whilst privately making no real effort to secure your future to Tynie. This all comes from the top of course, board and management...there is no ambition at the club, no long term planning or strategy for actual on the pitch success. We have become (again...)  a regular and easy mark for the old firm, you can save yourself the bother of attending these matches now, given that we regularly bend over for a series of 3-0 or 3-1 defeats. Cup-final will be no different. There's a heck of a lot to thank Anne Budge for, but we're treading water in mid-table from now until doomsday if and until we ever see genuinely ambitious leadership again at the club. 

 

Well said. I've been saying this for years. I honestly feel sorry for any fans that are still queuing up for season tickets when the club actually have no real ambition to win. Just enough success in a derby match or a decent cup run to keep everyone coming back for more. 

[jamboozy]

Hearts fans want the players to feel their joy when we win and want them to feel the same pain levels when we loose, they don't.

  Too many players think Hearts are a stepping stone and when they realise it's not as simple as that they just go through the motions, not good enough. All of this is just the opinion of someone who loves the club.

this stepping stone philosophy was fostered by our own illustrious Manager/Dof/ board member.

[Jamhammer]

14 hours ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

We should be better than 6th.

 

We have historically been better in the league than hibs but in terms of size any outsider would say we should be doing about the same, same goes with Aberdeen. so basically there should be 3 clubs above all the others fighting for one place. Some folk will argue this.

 

The OF have the financial backing and should be ahead of everyone, Celtic should be ahead of Rangers as well based on Finance.

 

Killie are the only team that is punching above it's weight and under Clarke have done very well.

 

The frustration for us is that with 3 changes of manager in 3 seasons we are not setting the foundation to build and it is showing on the pitch. A club, unless it has a big spending ability needs to build and generally this may take 2/3 seasons, Aberdeen being a good example of this.

 

This frustration is further compounded by the progress from this season being only a little bit better than last year, so folk want another change. Will it help? Maybe, maybe not.

The same discussions where happening under Robbie after promotion, a third place finish and sitting around 2nd. 

 

So yes, we should do better than 6th but given what has happened, some fans need to think about what would actually make them happy as under Robbie they were not happy and some have said even if we win the cup we should still change manager, so given that a 3rd place finish iwasn't good enough and a cup win may not be I am not sure what the expectations are of some.

 

 

Todays game is a good example.

Certain posters say because of finance we should beat the likes of Dundee/ Motherwell both home and away and easily in some cases because of the finance.

Yet, the same posters don't allow us the same grace v  Rangers? Surely if the above applies to Hearts then Rangers / Celtic should be blowing us away and if they do we can't complain.....

 

 

If we win the cup and end up 6th that would be a good season.

If we end up 5th/6th but no cup it is not a good season, but giving our history, not a poor one.

 

IMO, the discussion about how best to go forward needs opened up, but best discussed after the cup final.

 

 

 

 

 

Even if we win the cup I’d like to find any Hearts fan there today who thought the application, desire and attitude was anywhere near good enough for HMFC.

Theyre supposed to be playing for their cup final places but made an under strength bang average Rangers team look like Barcelona.

A 6th place finish, even with a cup win is not good enough. Injuries are a mitigating factor but not a reasonable excuse IMO

[Bazzas right boot]

33 minutes ago, Jamhammer said:

Even if we win the cup I’d like to find any Hearts fan there today who thought the application, desire and attitude was anywhere near good enough for HMFC.

Theyre supposed to be playing for their cup final places but made an under strength bang average Rangers team look like Barcelona.

A 6th place finish, even with a cup win is not good enough. Injuries are a mitigating factor but not a reasonable excuse IMO

 

 

Exactly my point. 

 

So finishing 3rd and being about second the season after wasn't good enough. 

 

A cup win isn't good enough. 

 

Then in  terms of the op's question the answer is then yes. 

 

Expectations of competing at the top end and winning cups both together- every season may not be realistic given that two clubs have far more resources and another two clubs have around the same resources. 

 

We also have done this maybe twice in 30 years. 

 

 

[Debut 4]

9 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

Don’t think we over expect ... I think putting everything aside and during the Vlad reign it gave us all a kind of unrealistic expectation of players we saw wearing the shirt but couldn’t afford nowadays - the likes of skacel brellier fysas jankauskas bednar etc 

 

but if U look at all of the other players we had and that u mentioned we had these players in times of financial uncertainty and what players they were - I keep hearing this line being trotted out that we can’t compete financially with England’s lower tier etc but we couldn’t compete back then either but managed to sign some real diamonds as players - I mean, even JC before he came to us was never the player was initially and what he turned out to be in the end - they are there, u just need to find them before someone else does - bringing good youth players through into the 1st team means there is less risk and less players u have to sign in the transfer market 

 

we are virtually debt free thanks to the FOH and the support and we have a head start on all of the other teams exc the arse cheeks financially - still like the model of investing in the youth set up and bringing players through to sell on down south, and not west - but we need the right type of people at the helm to do this and in order to capatilise on the opportunity

 

I don’t see any consistency at all at the moment - one week in a good 3 or 4 weeks we will play well for a half and that’s it - we still regularly pull out a big support even when not doing well - look at Aberdeen - were shit, not doing well - poor support - then started doing well but attendances didn’t reflect in the improvement on the pitch 

 

One final point re the hardest support to please .. if I was a player I would be saying to myself if I and my team mates give blood for the cause every time we step out at Tynie this place will rock and get behind us - fact - when going well best atmosphere in Scotland - I mean, having players come off the park and smiling and talking away to Deidco players after the game after being beat is a sad reality of where some of our 1st team is in terms of mentality - they should have been straight down the tunnel heads down - acting like that isn’t what it takes to play for the jersey  and is an acceptance that it’s ok to play poorly - it’s ok to play poorly now and again as long as u don’t smile away when it happens - really feckin annoys me when this happens 

 

if CL thinks we are a hard support to please he should consider the way we play and set up and change it. If he does this then he will change his mind about this very quickly. Mediocre performances is one thing but lack of effort and fight is unacceptable - whenever we have done we’ll in games it has always been games where we have played at an intense and high tempo getting on the oppositions faces yet why do we seldom see this style being played so much - the little things can and will make a big difference if implemented - will CL implement these changes, that’s another story 

 

anyway rant over sorry I’m probably way off the point you were making in the first place now ?

 

9 hours ago, martoon said:

There's nothing wrong with the fans. What have we done wrong to create the shitfest that's served up on an almost weekly basis? 

 

The dugout and boardroom is where the problem lies. The head coach, his laughable cast of Pep's and the owners refusal/inability to recognise that it's not working. 

 

Even if by some miracle we win the Cup final (stop sniggering at the back) it won't change a thing. The dreadful lack of drive, urgency and feeble performances will persist. 

 

Hearts have a long history of under achievement. Titles lost, ludicrous semi final defeats in the last 30+ years etc., but that doesn't mean it should always be so. With the cash flowing into the club, from the blameless support, and the right people in the dugout we could be laying foundations that would see the club getting to more Cup finals, at least troubling Celtic and, ultimately, winning silverware more frequently. 

 

It won't happen while Craig Levein continues to have a free hand. His wasting of cash is as alarming as our future prospects under him. We're in a Cup final, man, we should be buzzing. Many of us clearly are not. 

 

Sorry for the ranting tone but I think today I reached the end of my rope. 

Both good posts.  

[pettigrewsstylist]

16 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

I’ve followed hearts since the mid 80’s , and where we are now is that it is quoted that we are an amazing club to play for when all is well, but we are the hardest to play for when we are toiling (from the stands)/.  Fair enough I’d say. It’s hard though, since the days of Levein, Robbo, Colquhoun, Davie Mac; skacel and Hartley we don’t have players of that ilk. 

Are  we right to be so dismissive of our squad now ? 

Levein has said on numerous occasions that we are a hard support to please. 

do we over expect ? 

Do we expect to win the league?

Do we expect to win a cup?

No hearts player is expected to do either and is given legend status if they do

Sound like an attractive gig to me in truth.

[innerjambo]

Any team will struggle to perform with muppets in charge.

[Jamhammer]

45 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

Exactly my point. 

 

So finishing 3rd and being about second the season after wasn't good enough. 

 

A cup win isn't good enough. 

 

Then in  terms of the op's question the answer is then yes. 

 

Expectations of competing at the top end and winning cups both together- every season may not be realistic given that two clubs have far more resources and another two clubs have around the same resources. 

 

We also have done this maybe twice in 30 years. 

 

 

I get where you're coming from but, quite frankly the football isn't good enough. I've been following Hearts for nearly 40 years and have seen worse teams but I don't know, apart from possibly Cathro's team I've seen a Hearts team with less desire and guts than this one.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Heart of Midlothian to finish in the top 3 but. It should be the minimum expectation. That said If I go to a game and we fight, scrap, attack and come away with nothing then fair do's. We don't have a divine right to win football games. 

Atmosphere has been mentioned and the above are just as likely to get the atmosphere going. Crunching tackles. Chasing back to get in a tackle. Mazy runs. We didn't do any of that yesterday. We can play like this, very occasionally but, more often than not we dont. I don't know why and, more worryingly the manager says he doesn't know why.

If we were playing like this and getting results most fans would put up with it but we're not getting results.

 

To return to the OP. Are we a difficult club to play for? Yeah we are but we should be and players who can't deal with Tynecastle should not be playing here

Edited April 21, 2019 by Jamhammer

[leginten]

3 minutes ago, Jamhammer said:

I get where you're coming from but, quite frankly the football isn't good enough. I've been following Hearts for nearly 40 years and have seen worse teams but I don't know, apart from possibly Cathro's team I've seen a Hearts team with less desire and guts than this one.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Heart of Midlothian to finish in the top 3 but. It should be the minimum expectation. That said If I go to a game and we fight, scrap, attack and come away with nothing then fair do's. We don't have a divine right to win football games. 

Atmosphere has been mentioned and the above are just as likely to get the atmosphere going. Crunching tackles. Chasing back to get in a tackle. Mazy runs. We didn't do any of that yesterday. We can play like this, very occasionally but, more often than not we dont. I don't know why and, more worryingly the manager says he doesn't know why.

If we were playing like this and getting results most fans would put up with it but we're not getting results.

 

To return to the OP. Are we a difficult club to play for? Yeah we are but we should be and players who can't deal with Tynecastle should not be playing here

 

Agree completely that players need to be up to playing for HMFC. But I don’t agree that we’re a difficult club to play for. In fact, I like everything Danny Wilde says in his excellent post above. We’re probably too easy to play for. Big support, great stadium, marvellous city, players like Lee, Haring and Ikpeazu afforded instant hero status. And, apparently, no pressure to achieve. Despite all the fine words at the outset of this project five years ago.

 

Even worse, some of our “fans” are apparently quite happy that we’re currently pissing the unique opportunity afforded us by the fresh start up against the wall. Wallowing in our current mediocrity (I’m being charitable) because we’ve almost always been mediocre. Talking utter shite about “entitlement”. They clearly haven’t digested the message - Ann Budge’s message - that this club is all about striving for excellence, or should be. 

 

These “fans” are part of the problem. I wish they would go and wallow elsewhere. Find themselves a shitey little club with no ambition.

[Bazzas right boot]

29 minutes ago, Jamhammer said:

I get where you're coming from but, quite frankly the football isn't good enough. I've been following Hearts for nearly 40 years and have seen worse teams but I don't know, apart from possibly Cathro's team I've seen a Hearts team with less desire and guts than this one.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Heart of Midlothian to finish in the top 3 but. It should be the minimum expectation. That said If I go to a game and we fight, scrap, attack and come away with nothing then fair do's. We don't have a divine right to win football games. 

Atmosphere has been mentioned and the above are just as likely to get the atmosphere going. Crunching tackles. Chasing back to get in a tackle. Mazy runs. We didn't do any of that yesterday. We can play like this, very occasionally but, more often than not we dont. I don't know why and, more worryingly the manager says he doesn't know why.

If we were playing like this and getting results most fans would put up with it but we're not getting results.

 

To return to the OP. Are we a difficult club to play for? Yeah we are but we should be and players who can't deal with Tynecastle should not be playing here

 

 

The football argument doesn't sit with me at all. 

I've seen far worse. Far worse. 

We play no worse or better football than the likes of Aberdeen, hibs and Killie for example. 

It really is a piss poor argument. 

 

We do have guts ino, we lack quality. 

We lack quality especially outside our best 11/12 players. 

 

Correct reference players who cannot play here. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Central Belt 1874]

18 minutes ago, leginten said:

 

Agree completely that players need to be up to playing for HMFC. But I don’t agree that we’re a difficult club to play for. In fact, I like everything Danny Wilde says in his excellent post above. We’re probably too easy to play for. Big support, great stadium, marvellous city, players like Lee, Haring and Ikpeazu afforded instant hero status. And, apparently, no pressure to achieve. Despite all the fine words at the outset of this project five years ago.

 

Even worse, some of our “fans” are apparently quite happy that we’re currently pissing the unique opportunity afforded us by the fresh start up against the wall. Wallowing in our current mediocrity (I’m being charitable) because we’ve almost always been mediocre. Talking utter shite about “entitlement”. They clearly haven’t digested the message - Ann Budge’s message - that this club is all about striving for excellence, or should be. 

 

These “fans” are part of the problem. I wish they would go and wallow elsewhere. Find themselves a shitey little club with no ambition.

 

Post of the year in my opinion. 

 

Absolutely bang on the money.

[jamboozy]

22 minutes ago, leginten said:

 

Agree completely that players need to be up to playing for HMFC. But I don’t agree that we’re a difficult club to play for. In fact, I like everything Danny Wilde says in his excellent post above. We’re probably too easy to play for. Big support, great stadium, marvellous city, players like Lee, Haring and Ikpeazu afforded instant hero status. And, apparently, no pressure to achieve. Despite all the fine words at the outset of this project five years ago.

 

Even worse, some of our “fans” are apparently quite happy that we’re currently pissing the unique opportunity afforded us by the fresh start up against the wall. Wallowing in our current mediocrity (I’m being charitable) because we’ve almost always been mediocre. Talking utter shite about “entitlement”. They clearly haven’t digested the message - Ann Budge’s message - that this club is all about striving for excellence, or should be. 

 

These “fans” are part of the problem. I wish they would go and wallow elsewhere. Find themselves a shitey little club with no ambition.

Top post, watch out though, you'll be called a moon howler or a 'screwball' by some on here.

[upgotheheads]

16 hours ago, Sooperstar said:

Sean Clare never played today cos he was in The Mill til closing. Too hard to play for for him that's for sure.

 

16 hours ago, Gavsy Van Gaverson said:

 

Seen it with my own eyes. Out of order.

 

16 hours ago, Torres said:

Glad someone else saw this. Although on the bright side, he did buy me and my mates a round of jaegers 

 

 I don't believe this, unless of course he was on soft drinks which is quite feasible.

 

If a professional footballer is out late drinking alcohol the night before a big game with a 12 o'clock kick-off then that's a disciplinary matter, and I'm sure we'll be hearing all about it from some source or other.

 

If on the other hand the above posters are just shit-stirring then  they should make it clear what the circumstances were.

[Jamhammer]

12 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

The football argument doesn't sit with me at all. 

I've seen far worse. Far worse. 

We play no worse or better football than the likes of Aberdeen, hibs and Killie for example. 

It really is a piss poor argument. 

 

We do have guts ino, we lack quality. 

We lack quality especially outside our best 11/12 players. 

 

Correct reference players who cannot play here. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We never laid a hand on Rangers yesterday. Any team that comes here with a bit of attitude and aggression will generally get something from us. We lack leadership without Naismith and our football, especially in the last couple of months has, in the main been predictable, and one dimensional. Games where we actually played football, like 2nd half last week are really the exception. Rangers, for instance without Morelos and Kent, 2 of their better players still didn't have to get out of 1st gear to turn us over.

As I said earlier our ridiculous injury situation is a mitigating factor and losing Clare pre kick off was a dull one but not an excuse for the inability of the players who come in to make an impact. If they can't then they shouldn't be here or in the squad.

[NANOJAMBO]

34 minutes ago, leginten said:

 

Agree completely that players need to be up to playing for HMFC. But I don’t agree that we’re a difficult club to play for. In fact, I like everything Danny Wilde says in his excellent post above. We’re probably too easy to play for. Big support, great stadium, marvellous city, players like Lee, Haring and Ikpeazu afforded instant hero status. And, apparently, no pressure to achieve. Despite all the fine words at the outset of this project five years ago.

 

Even worse, some of our “fans” are apparently quite happy that we’re currently pissing the unique opportunity afforded us by the fresh start up against the wall. Wallowing in our current mediocrity (I’m being charitable) because we’ve almost always been mediocre. Talking utter shite about “entitlement”. They clearly haven’t digested the message - Ann Budge’s message - that this club is all about striving for excellence, or should be. 

 

These “fans” are part of the problem. I wish they would go and wallow elsewhere. Find themselves a shitey little club with no ambition.

This. Stagnating football for 2 years, a manager who can't organise/motivate players to even look competitive against the worst teams in the league and huge sums pissed away on piss poor players. All that money, all that football experience, all that football know-how and this is where we are at. 

[Bazzas right boot]

47 minutes ago, Jamhammer said:

We never laid a hand on Rangers yesterday. Any team that comes here with a bit of attitude and aggression will generally get something from us. We lack leadership without Naismith and our football, especially in the last couple of months has, in the main been predictable, and one dimensional. Games where we actually played football, like 2nd half last week are really the exception. Rangers, for instance without Morelos and Kent, 2 of their better players still didn't have to get out of 1st gear to turn us over.

As I said earlier our ridiculous injury situation is a mitigating factor and losing Clare pre kick off was a dull one but not an excuse for the inability of the players who come in to make an impact. If they can't then they shouldn't be here or in the squad.

 

 

We actually had more shots on goal and Mcgregor made the only save of note. 

The game was pretty even bar two errors that gifted goals. 

 

Two ridiculous errors cost us, so that backs up my quality argument. 

Folk like Bozanic and Wighton aren't at the level required. 

 

Nothing to do with guts imo. 

 

I agree reference the players and I'm sure we'll add more meat to the bones this summer.