Hearts. A difficult club to play for

[martoon]

1 hour ago, leginten said:

 

Agree completely that players need to be up to playing for HMFC. But I don’t agree that we’re a difficult club to play for. In fact, I like everything Danny Wilde says in his excellent post above. We’re probably too easy to play for. Big support, great stadium, marvellous city, players like Lee, Haring and Ikpeazu afforded instant hero status. And, apparently, no pressure to achieve. Despite all the fine words at the outset of this project five years ago.

 

Even worse, some of our “fans” are apparently quite happy that we’re currently pissing the unique opportunity afforded us by the fresh start up against the wall. Wallowing in our current mediocrity (I’m being charitable) because we’ve almost always been mediocre. Talking utter shite about “entitlement”. They clearly haven’t digested the message - Ann Budge’s message - that this club is all about striving for excellence, or should be. 

 

These “fans” are part of the problem. I wish they would go and wallow elsewhere. Find themselves a shitey little club with no ambition.

 

Spot on.

 

We've actually got it cracked. Superb fans who want to put their cash into the club, generous benefactors, including the wonderful Mrs Budge, but at the sharp end, where it really counts, recruitment, motivation, training, tactics...it all comes to a stop. Opportunity is a precious thing but we're just letting it, and the dough, slip through our fingers because the bloke with the most important job of all is mostly failing.

 

Felt frustration many times in 40 odd years but this is the worst. It's all there for us but we're fecking it up.

 

[leginten]

2 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

We actually had more shots on goal and Mcgregor made the only save of note. 

The game was pretty even bar two errors that gifted goals. 

 

 

 

Seek treatment.

 

They could and probably should have been about six goals up by the 60th minute.

[amadjambo]

6 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

We actually had more shots on goal and Mcgregor made the only save of note. 

The game was pretty even bar two errors that gifted goals. 

 

Two ridiculous errors cost us, so that backs up my quality argument. 

Folk like Bozanic and Wighton aren't at the level required. 

 

Nothing to do with guts imo. 

 

I agree reference the players and I'm sure we'll add more meat to the bones this summer. 

Pretty even apart from the two errors!

 

We were watching different games. If Rangers has been more clinical they could have scored 6 or 7. Lost count of the number of times Defoe and Arfield were left totally unmarked in our box. Ridiculous and shambolic performance at the back yesterday.

[Bridge of Djoum]

17 hours ago, gedster said:

who has ever, ever, ever, been written off after their debut???.........Didn't even happen to Andy Watson.....think you're dreaming there

Sammon. Vanecek.

[amadjambo]

10 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

Sammon. Vanecek.

Vanacek? Levein was the most scathing of us all.  Still find it bizarre that he’s not been seen since Hamilton away when I didn’t think he did too badly. He was certainly better than most of the team that day.

[jr ewing]

Just the manager. Club is fine. 

[glynnlondon]

Hard to play for the Famous with all the talent of a dog and duck over 50s pisshead right enough.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, amadjambo said:

Pretty even apart from the two errors!

 

We were watching different games. If Rangers has been more clinical they could have scored 6 or 7. Lost count of the number of times Defoe and Arfield were left totally unmarked in our box. Ridiculous and shambolic performance at the back yesterday.

 

 

If we'd been more clinical we'd have scored 3/4.

 

Matters a jot. 

 

Mcgregor made the only save of note, both teams missed a few chances, rangers caoatilized on two mistakes ( mistakes that shown up that certain players can't play at this level imo) 

 

We were a bit wide open later on, that happens when a team is chasing a game. 

Hardly ridiculous, happens across the world to better teams than us, Litterally every day. 

 

[SuperstarSteve]

At this point any manager who comes in needs to win everything or fans will want him gone.

 

getting to semi finals and finals is no longer good enough. We demand More and fancy football at the same time. 

 

Neilson smashed the championship by 20+ points and was sitting 2nd albeit with gamea in hands. 

No good enough as we demand better. 

Delusional comes to mind. 

 

Ive said it for quite some time we are the best supporters in this country by a mile but also the absolute worse at the same time. 

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by SuperstarSteve

[Hampden Demolition]

1 hour ago, SuperstarSteve said:

At this point any manager who comes in needs to win everything or fans will want him gone.

 

getting to semi finals and finals is no longer good enough. We demand More and fancy football at the same time. 

 

Neilson smashed the championship by 20+ points and was sitting 2nd albeit with gamea in hands. 

No good enough as we demand better. 

Delusional comes to mind. 

 

Ive said it for quite some time we are the best supporters in this country by a mile but also the absolute worse at the same time. 

 

 

 

 

Neilson was targeted by a small minority of supporters. I would expect the vast majority of supporters are wanting Levein out.

[jambopilms]

1 hour ago, Hampden Demolition said:

 

Neilson was targeted by a small minority of supporters. I would expect the vast majority of supporters are wanting Levein out.

Nelsons teams never got up for a derby, which was unacceptable for some. Leveins teams can't get up for most apart from Hibs and Aberdeen it would seem. I don't know what happened giving your all for ever game.

[SpruceBringsteen]

Easy club to play for. Give it your all every game and fear no one. Rocket science it is not.

[Pasquale for King]

12 hours ago, martoon said:

 

Spot on.

 

We've actually got it cracked. Superb fans who want to put their cash into the club, generous benefactors, including the wonderful Mrs Budge, but at the sharp end, where it really counts, recruitment, motivation, training, tactics...it all comes to a stop. Opportunity is a precious thing but we're just letting it, and the dough, slip through our fingers because the bloke with the most important job of all is mostly failing.

 

Felt frustration many times in 40 odd years but this is the worst. It's all there for us but we're fecking it up.

 

Good response to a good post, I always thought we were much more demanding than Hibs fans but it seems it’s about a 50-50 split.

[Pasquale for King]

9 hours ago, Hampden Demolition said:

 

Neilson was targeted by a small minority of supporters. I would expect the vast majority of supporters are wanting Levein out.

Exactly, it was much better under Neilson but it was still time for him to go.

[Pasquale for King]

11 hours ago, SuperstarSteve said:

At this point any manager who comes in needs to win everything or fans will want him gone.

 

getting to semi finals and finals is no longer good enough. We demand More and fancy football at the same time. 

 

Neilson smashed the championship by 20+ points and was sitting 2nd albeit with gamea in hands. 

No good enough as we demand better. 

Delusional comes to mind. 

 

Ive said it for quite some time we are the best supporters in this country by a mile but also the absolute worse at the same time. 

 

 

 

You really over simplify things without giving detail. Neilson did all you say but had a poor derby record and whether you like it not that matters. He will be remembered for the part he played in helping them win the Scottish cup.

As for getting to two semis and a final we couldn’t have had an easier route in both cups. The last two cup winning managers were replaced not long afterwards, here’s hoping that will happen again.

[shaun.lawson]

On 20/04/2019 at 20:14, martoon said:

There's nothing wrong with the fans. What have we done wrong to create the shitfest that's served up on an almost weekly basis? 

 

The dugout and boardroom is where the problem lies. The head coach, his laughable cast of Pep's and the owners refusal/inability to recognise that it's not working. 

 

Even if by some miracle we win the Cup final (stop sniggering at the back) it won't change a thing. The dreadful lack of drive, urgency and feeble performances will persist. 

 

Hearts have a long history of under achievement. Titles lost, ludicrous semi final defeats in the last 30+ years etc., but that doesn't mean it should always be so. With the cash flowing into the club, from the blameless support, and the right people in the dugout we could be laying foundations that would see the club getting to more Cup finals, at least troubling Celtic and, ultimately, winning silverware more frequently. 

 

It won't happen while Craig Levein continues to have a free hand. His wasting of cash is as alarming as our future prospects under him. We're in a Cup final, man, we should be buzzing. Many of us clearly are not. 

 

Sorry for the ranting tone but I think today I reached the end of my rope. 

 

14 hours ago, leginten said:

 

Agree completely that players need to be up to playing for HMFC. But I don’t agree that we’re a difficult club to play for. In fact, I like everything Danny Wilde says in his excellent post above. We’re probably too easy to play for. Big support, great stadium, marvellous city, players like Lee, Haring and Ikpeazu afforded instant hero status. And, apparently, no pressure to achieve. Despite all the fine words at the outset of this project five years ago.

 

Even worse, some of our “fans” are apparently quite happy that we’re currently pissing the unique opportunity afforded us by the fresh start up against the wall. Wallowing in our current mediocrity (I’m being charitable) because we’ve almost always been mediocre. Talking utter shite about “entitlement”. They clearly haven’t digested the message - Ann Budge’s message - that this club is all about striving for excellence, or should be. 

 

These “fans” are part of the problem. I wish they would go and wallow elsewhere. Find themselves a shitey little club with no ambition.

 

Two fine, thought-provoking posts from two fine posters.

 

Of course Hearts should be ambitious. Any big (in Scottish terms) club which doesn't have any ambition is not a big club. Simple. And of all the managers we've had in the modern era, JJ fitted us like a glove because he shared that ambition. And continually spoke of it from the moment he started in Summer 1995. 

 

And yet... even under him, we were spending too much. In 1997/8, we lost 2m - and everyone will remember the thousands of empty seats the following summer, at a time we thought of ourselves as serious title contenders! And the thing is: it's that very word, 'ambition', which twice resulted in near-death experiences, and not all that much by way of tangible reward. 

 

Of course, now we're in a great position off the park, and can build for the future on it. But those who think this somehow transforms our prospects are wrong. Maybe, before long, Hearts, not Aberdeen, will have the third-biggest budget... so maybe we'll finish top 3 a wee bit more often. But all the economic forces which have destroyed Scottish football as a competitive spectacle won't only remain; they'll intensify. 

 

No non-OF club has made a serious title challenge since Hearts 97/8. No non-OF club has even taken it to the last day since 1991. And the likelihood is that, for all their shambolic state off the park, Rangers will draw away from the rest of us over the next year or two. Only they can seriously challenge and eventually take down Celtic. The rest of us are fighting for scraps. 

 

So if I were Ann Budge, I'd be thinking "what's the point of spending more if it doesn't deliver more?" The return on investment just isn't worth it. What does that leave instead? Running the club progressively, having great coaches implementing an attractive philosophy, and a manager driven to succeed. 

 

Those are the things which are missing right now. Not only that - but while I'm exasperated at those who want Levein to go before the final (no - he got us there, he deserves a crack at it, just like JJ deserved a crack at Tottenham and was treated appallingly by Vlad), I do want him gone in the summer. When I think we need to start again. And what we specifically need is:

 

- A manager and coaching staff who've spent much of their careers away from Scotland, so haven't been run down and kinda destroyed by continually losing to Celtic and Rangers for decades on end

 

- A mixture of fearless young players encouraged to express themselves and experienced types who've also spent much of their careers away from Scotland, and have far hungrier attitudes as a result.

 

I expected us to lose on Saturday. Most Hearts fans would have done. Maybe a number of the players did too. That's inevitable: it was Rangers. How can we expect anything else given what they spend and what we spend? But the kind of manager and players I'd want don't expect it, because they have much bigger horizons and are therefore far more demanding. 

 

Steven Naismith spent a good deal of his career in the EPL, so is more demanding. Steve Clarke worked under one of the greatest managers of all time (who himself worked under two of the greatest managers of all time), then managed in the EPL, so he's more demanding too. Jack Ross moved to England so he could broaden his horizons in a very tough, competitive pyramid. Those are examples of the kind of people we need.

 

I've got tons of time for everything Levein has done for Hearts... but he's jaded. Most managers in Scottish football end up like that because Scottish football is like the world which time forgot. It's Groundhog Day basically.

Edited April 22, 2019 by shaun.lawson

[jamboozy]

3 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

 

Two fine, thought-provoking posts from two fine posters.

 

Of course Hearts should be ambitious. Any big (in Scottish terms) club which doesn't have any ambition is not a big club. Simple. And of all the managers we've had in the modern era, JJ fitted us like a glove because he shared that ambition. And continually spoke of it from the moment he started in Summer 1995. 

 

And yet... even under him, we were spending too much. In 1997/8, we lost 2m - and everyone will remember the thousands of empty seats the following summer, at a time we thought of ourselves as serious title contenders! And the thing is: it's that very word, 'ambition', which twice resulted in near-death experiences, and not all that much by way of tangible reward. 

 

Of course, now we're in a great position off the park, and can build for the future on it. But those who think this somehow transforms our prospects are wrong. Maybe, before long, Hearts, not Aberdeen, will have the third-biggest budget... so maybe we'll finish top 3 a wee bit more often. But all the economic forces which have destroyed Scottish football as a competitive spectacle won't only remain; they'll intensify. 

 

No non-OF club has made a serious title challenge since Hearts 97/8. No non-OF club has even taken it to the last day since 1991. And the likelihood is that, for all their shambolic state off the park, Rangers will draw away from the rest of us over the next year or two. Only they can seriously challenge and eventually take down Celtic. The rest of us are fighting for scraps. 

 

So if I were Ann Budge, I'd be thinking "what's the point of spending more if it doesn't deliver more?" The return on investment just isn't worth it. What does that leave instead? Running the club progressively, having great coaches implementing an attractive philosophy, and a manager driven to succeed. 

 

Those are the things which are missing right now. Not only that - but while I'm exasperated at those who want Levein to go before the final (no - he got us there, he deserves a crack at it, just like JJ deserved a crack at Tottenham and was treated appallingly by Vlad), I do want him gone in the summer. When I think we need to start again. And what we specifically need is:

 

- A manager and coaching staff who've spent much of their careers away from Scotland, so haven't been run down and kinda destroyed by continually losing to Celtic and Rangers for decades on end

 

- A mixture of fearless young players encouraged to express themselves and experienced types who've also spent much of their careers away from Scotland, and have far hungrier attitudes as a result.

 

I expected us to lose on Saturday. Most Hearts fans would have done. Maybe a number of the players did too. That's inevitable: it was Rangers. How can we expect anything else given what they spend and what we spend? But the kind of manager and players I'd want don't expect it, because they have much bigger horizons and are therefore far more demanding. 

 

Steven Naismith spent a good deal of his career in the EPL, so is more demanding. Steve Clarke worked under one of the greatest managers of all time (who himself worked under two of the greatest managers of all time), then managed in the EPL, so he's more demanding too. Jack Ross moved to England so he could broaden his horizons in a very tough, competitive pyramid. Those are examples of the kind of people we need.

 

I've got tons of time for everything Levein has done for Hearts... but he's jaded. Most managers in Scottish football end up like that because Scottish football is like the world which time forgot. It's Groundhog Day basically.

Good analogy, it would take a very strong personality to break the miasma that is Scottish football, Hearts as a club could not afford such a character to manage us, unless, we stumbled across an emerging gem? What would be the odds on that I wonder?

[tian447]

On 20/04/2019 at 19:16, gedster said:

who has ever, ever, ever, been written off after their debut???.........Didn't even happen to Andy Watson.....think you're dreaming there

 

Vanecek

 

[Central Belt 1874]

7 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

 

Two fine, thought-provoking posts from two fine posters.

 

Of course Hearts should be ambitious. Any big (in Scottish terms) club which doesn't have any ambition is not a big club. Simple. And of all the managers we've had in the modern era, JJ fitted us like a glove because he shared that ambition. And continually spoke of it from the moment he started in Summer 1995. 

 

And yet... even under him, we were spending too much. In 1997/8, we lost 2m - and everyone will remember the thousands of empty seats the following summer, at a time we thought of ourselves as serious title contenders! And the thing is: it's that very word, 'ambition', which twice resulted in near-death experiences, and not all that much by way of tangible reward. 

 

Of course, now we're in a great position off the park, and can build for the future on it. But those who think this somehow transforms our prospects are wrong. Maybe, before long, Hearts, not Aberdeen, will have the third-biggest budget... so maybe we'll finish top 3 a wee bit more often. But all the economic forces which have destroyed Scottish football as a competitive spectacle won't only remain; they'll intensify. 

 

No non-OF club has made a serious title challenge since Hearts 97/8. No non-OF club has even taken it to the last day since 1991. And the likelihood is that, for all their shambolic state off the park, Rangers will draw away from the rest of us over the next year or two. Only they can seriously challenge and eventually take down Celtic. The rest of us are fighting for scraps. 

 

So if I were Ann Budge, I'd be thinking "what's the point of spending more if it doesn't deliver more?" The return on investment just isn't worth it. What does that leave instead? Running the club progressively, having great coaches implementing an attractive philosophy, and a manager driven to succeed. 

 

Those are the things which are missing right now. Not only that - but while I'm exasperated at those who want Levein to go before the final (no - he got us there, he deserves a crack at it, just like JJ deserved a crack at Tottenham and was treated appallingly by Vlad), I do want him gone in the summer. When I think we need to start again. And what we specifically need is:

 

- A manager and coaching staff who've spent much of their careers away from Scotland, so haven't been run down and kinda destroyed by continually losing to Celtic and Rangers for decades on end

 

- A mixture of fearless young players encouraged to express themselves and experienced types who've also spent much of their careers away from Scotland, and have far hungrier attitudes as a result.

 

I expected us to lose on Saturday. Most Hearts fans would have done. Maybe a number of the players did too. That's inevitable: it was Rangers. How can we expect anything else given what they spend and what we spend? But the kind of manager and players I'd want don't expect it, because they have much bigger horizons and are therefore far more demanding. 

 

Steven Naismith spent a good deal of his career in the EPL, so is more demanding. Steve Clarke worked under one of the greatest managers of all time (who himself worked under two of the greatest managers of all time), then managed in the EPL, so he's more demanding too. Jack Ross moved to England so he could broaden his horizons in a very tough, competitive pyramid. Those are examples of the kind of people we need.

 

I've got tons of time for everything Levein has done for Hearts... but he's jaded. Most managers in Scottish football end up like that because Scottish football is like the world which time forgot. It's Groundhog Day basically.

 

Your post Shaun is on the whole negative. It's really not how Hearts should be approaching playing Celtic or Rangers. That Rangers team right now, regardless of how much money they have spent, is really not that great, a better than average side who will finish 2nd like Aberdeen have recently. Nothing great, just consistent.

 

The part in bold though, I think this strikes at the heart of how we begin to challenge in the league again. We dont need to spend significant amounts on money on a team full of players if we invest more money on the right manager with the right ambitions.

 

It's all down to Budge now though. Has she got the ambition to drive the club forward on the park, or at least to try to? 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

There are different pressures playing for different clubs, stepping into Tynecastle from playing bottom 6 you have to lift yourself. Moving from a top 6 club like ourselves to one of the Glasgow duo, would be a similar rise in pressure.

 

Then it comes down to personal application, willpower and confidence from those attributes.

 

Its easy to slate everyone under the sun, anyone can do that, requires no real life skill to suggest someone is shite or even cowardly.

 

We are dealing with human beings, probably some you would happily share beers, go on your holidays with or invite to your family BBQ. Because they kick a ball for a living, they become demonised when they don't achieve to the level of expectation.

 

Ours is relatively high in Scotland, the less we achieve that level of expectation, the higher the level of focus and desire to be consistently winning games, it just heaps more of the pressure on. Not a recipe for these guys to improve.

 

Having said that, they are fortunate to have the opportunity and like anything in life, when you get an opportunity you have to be strong and focused to take it when it comes.

 

Hearts are a difficult club to play for, but its a great opportunity that many over the years have not had the strength to take.

[BOBTHEBRUCE]

Even more difficult if you're Ryan Edwards, David Vanecek or any of the youngsters. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by BOBTHEBRUCE

[jambopilms]

To be successful we need to compete better with those who have a similar budget. There is no chance of winning the league or probably being second now rangers are getting back to strength. Those who say rangers are shit and were there for the taking have lost it. Not one of our team would be getting in their match day squad, so how are we meant to compete? One off games are winnable but consistently, no chance.

We can only really hope to win a cup with a lucky draw or catch ranger or Celtic on an off day. 

We should be playing decent football to please the crowds, we should be set up to score goals as that's what we pay to see. We should expect our players to bust a gut every game, not just against Hibs or Aberdeen. We shouldn't have melt downs after a defeat to the old firm as it no difference to us beating ict easily 8 out of ten times

 

 

[Rooster20]

Think it's a pretty poor effort to try and shift blame onto the fans. Hearts fans are the best in the world and I mean that literally, how many other clubs have been saved like HMFC was. Of course Hearts fans are demanding but the Rangers game was a culmination of 4 months of rubbish football from players who are either poor or do not care (with a few exceptions) and a manager who while being a legend of HMFC is frankly not fit to manage a club of HMFC size. The only gripe I have with our fanbase is that imo we tend to write youngsters off too quickly and treat them ridiculously harshly. Cochrane and Wighton are examples of that. However on terms of blame for being 6th the fans are possibly the least to blame of any involved party in HMFC.

[leginten]

30 minutes ago, Rooster20 said:

Think it's a pretty poor effort to try and shift blame onto the fans.

 

Indeed. The last refuge of a scoundrel, you might say. And a recurring Kickback theme down the years at times of almighty ****-ups by those running the club.

 

But there's plenty of it about. 

[The Continental Op]

On 20/04/2019 at 18:34, Bozi said:

We are demanding, we do have certain expectations that we are nowhere near. 

The thing is though it's not about the quality of the player we just need to look at guys like Sandison, brellier, macfarlane, johnsson, guys who were limited footballers but gave every ounce, every game. 

 

The current bunch have no heart, no passion, no drive and that is the point at which you lose the support 

+1.      

Heart of Midlothian - the clue is in the name.

[leginten]

11 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

 

Two fine, thought-provoking posts from two fine posters.

 

Of course Hearts should be ambitious. Any big (in Scottish terms) club which doesn't have any ambition is not a big club. Simple. And of all the managers we've had in the modern era, JJ fitted us like a glove because he shared that ambition. And continually spoke of it from the moment he started in Summer 1995. 

 

And yet... even under him, we were spending too much. In 1997/8, we lost 2m - and everyone will remember the thousands of empty seats the following summer, at a time we thought of ourselves as serious title contenders! And the thing is: it's that very word, 'ambition', which twice resulted in near-death experiences, and not all that much by way of tangible reward. 

 

Of course, now we're in a great position off the park, and can build for the future on it. But those who think this somehow transforms our prospects are wrong. Maybe, before long, Hearts, not Aberdeen, will have the third-biggest budget... so maybe we'll finish top 3 a wee bit more often. But all the economic forces which have destroyed Scottish football as a competitive spectacle won't only remain; they'll intensify. 

 

No non-OF club has made a serious title challenge since Hearts 97/8. No non-OF club has even taken it to the last day since 1991. And the likelihood is that, for all their shambolic state off the park, Rangers will draw away from the rest of us over the next year or two. Only they can seriously challenge and eventually take down Celtic. The rest of us are fighting for scraps. 

 

So if I were Ann Budge, I'd be thinking "what's the point of spending more if it doesn't deliver more?" The return on investment just isn't worth it. What does that leave instead? Running the club progressively, having great coaches implementing an attractive philosophy, and a manager driven to succeed. 

 

Those are the things which are missing right now. Not only that - but while I'm exasperated at those who want Levein to go before the final (no - he got us there, he deserves a crack at it, just like JJ deserved a crack at Tottenham and was treated appallingly by Vlad), I do want him gone in the summer. When I think we need to start again. And what we specifically need is:

 

- A manager and coaching staff who've spent much of their careers away from Scotland, so haven't been run down and kinda destroyed by continually losing to Celtic and Rangers for decades on end

 

- A mixture of fearless young players encouraged to express themselves and experienced types who've also spent much of their careers away from Scotland, and have far hungrier attitudes as a result.

 

I expected us to lose on Saturday. Most Hearts fans would have done. Maybe a number of the players did too. That's inevitable: it was Rangers. How can we expect anything else given what they spend and what we spend? But the kind of manager and players I'd want don't expect it, because they have much bigger horizons and are therefore far more demanding. 

 

Steven Naismith spent a good deal of his career in the EPL, so is more demanding. Steve Clarke worked under one of the greatest managers of all time (who himself worked under two of the greatest managers of all time), then managed in the EPL, so he's more demanding too. Jack Ross moved to England so he could broaden his horizons in a very tough, competitive pyramid. Those are examples of the kind of people we need.

 

I've got tons of time for everything Levein has done for Hearts... but he's jaded. Most managers in Scottish football end up like that because Scottish football is like the world which time forgot. It's Groundhog Day basically.

 

In terms of ambition, we’re not looking to win the league, or anything like it. Maybe some day we will be. We’re in for yet another rebuild this summer, and I hope it’s under new management. I would like to see Levein go for the sake of his own health.

 

On the field, we’re currently failing on just about every front. No urgency (players ambling to take corners when we’re trailing in time added on), no real guts and determination or will to win, no leadership, no sign of an end to the tinkering (injuries notwithstanding) with formations and line-ups which has been a constant of the last five years whether under Neilson, Cathro or Levein, no sign, worryingly, that Levein is able to get the players to carry out whatever his instructions are. And the style of play we were supposed to be developing throughout the club? If our vision for the 21st century was to end almost every move with the centre-backs shelling the ball at no-one in particular, I’ll hold my hand up and admit we’re well ahead of schedule.

 

Then there are the signings. Players who looked good at first but have gone off the boil. Jaded, demotivated. Players who were never good enough in the first place. Useless players who would probably have bitten your hand off for a six-month contract but ended up with three years, presumably at a cost of hundreds of thousands of pounds to the club.  Players who were signed, then given an eternity to get match-fit and still turned out to be unimaginably bad. And then there’s the mystery/scandal/monumental cock-up - call it what you like - of Vanecek. Played once with no great fuss either way about how good or bad he was, hauled off after 20 minutes against Dundee, now a non-person. I hope Budge has hauled Levein over the coals about this affair. I doubt she will have.

 

And now, of course, we’re in the post-split period. Which Hearts players nowadays seem to interpret as time to get the beach-towels out. That has also been a constant of the last four years. So we’re probably looking at defeats at ER, Pittodrie and Parkhead. Home draw with Killie? And somehow we’ll magically get ourselves up for the final at Hampden.

 

Ambition? We’re currently not even at first base in terms of being a competitive team. The bar is set very low. The best we can hope for in the next few weeks is some fight - sadly lacking on Saturday.

 

We’re not a hard club to play for. It’s an absolute doss. You would hope the players are raging with each other at training after some of the stuff that has been served up. I have my doubts.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

13 minutes ago, leginten said:

 

In terms of ambition, we’re not looking to win the league, or anything like it. Maybe some day we will be. We’re in for yet another rebuild this summer, and I hope it’s under new management. I would like to see Levein go for the sake of his own health.

 

On the field, we’re currently failing on just about every front. No urgency (players ambling to take corners when we’re trailing in time added on), no real guts and determination or will to win, no leadership, no sign of an end to the tinkering (injuries notwithstanding) with formations and line-ups which has been a constant of the last five years whether under Neilson, Cathro or Levein, no sign, worryingly, that Levein is able to get the players to carry out whatever his instructions are. And the style of play we were supposed to be developing throughout the club? If our vision for the 21st century was to end almost every move with the centre-backs shelling the ball at no-one in particular, I’ll hold my hand up and admit we’re well ahead of schedule.

 

Then there are the signings. Players who looked good at first but have gone off the boil. Jaded, demotivated. Players who were never good enough in the first place. Useless players who would probably have bitten your hand off for a six-month contract but ended up with three years, presumably at a cost of hundreds of thousands of pounds to the club.  Players who were signed, then given an eternity to get match-fit and still turned out to be unimaginably bad. And then there’s the mystery/scandal/monumental cock-up - call it what you like - of Vanecek. Played once with no great fuss either way about how good or bad he was, hauled off after 20 minutes against Dundee, now a non-person. I hope Budge has hauled Levein over the coals about this affair. I doubt she will have.

 

And now, of course, we’re in the post-split period. Which Hearts players nowadays seem to interpret as time to get the beach-towels out. That has also been a constant of the last four years. So we’re probably looking at defeats at ER, Pittodrie and Parkhead. Home draw with Killie? And somehow we’ll magically get ourselves up for the final at Hampden.

 

Ambition? We’re currently not even at first base in terms of being a competitive team. The bar is set very low. The best we can hope for in the next few weeks is some fight - sadly lacking on Saturday.

 

We’re not a hard club to play for. It’s an absolute doss. You would hope the players are raging with each other at training after some of the stuff that has been served up. I have my doubts.

Agree. It's almost as if the only pissed off supporters are the ones actually watching the half-hearted, side ways pass, followed by a punt up the pitch. With one up front. 

 

It's shit and I already regret paying £350 to renew. 

[martoon]

12 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

 

Two fine, thought-provoking posts from two fine posters.

 

Of course Hearts should be ambitious. Any big (in Scottish terms) club which doesn't have any ambition is not a big club. Simple. And of all the managers we've had in the modern era, JJ fitted us like a glove because he shared that ambition. And continually spoke of it from the moment he started in Summer 1995. 

 

And yet... even under him, we were spending too much. In 1997/8, we lost 2m - and everyone will remember the thousands of empty seats the following summer, at a time we thought of ourselves as serious title contenders! And the thing is: it's that very word, 'ambition', which twice resulted in near-death experiences, and not all that much by way of tangible reward. 

 

Of course, now we're in a great position off the park, and can build for the future on it. But those who think this somehow transforms our prospects are wrong. Maybe, before long, Hearts, not Aberdeen, will have the third-biggest budget... so maybe we'll finish top 3 a wee bit more often. But all the economic forces which have destroyed Scottish football as a competitive spectacle won't only remain; they'll intensify. 

 

No non-OF club has made a serious title challenge since Hearts 97/8. No non-OF club has even taken it to the last day since 1991. And the likelihood is that, for all their shambolic state off the park, Rangers will draw away from the rest of us over the next year or two. Only they can seriously challenge and eventually take down Celtic. The rest of us are fighting for scraps. 

 

So if I were Ann Budge, I'd be thinking "what's the point of spending more if it doesn't deliver more?" The return on investment just isn't worth it. What does that leave instead? Running the club progressively, having great coaches implementing an attractive philosophy, and a manager driven to succeed. 

 

Those are the things which are missing right now. Not only that - but while I'm exasperated at those who want Levein to go before the final (no - he got us there, he deserves a crack at it, just like JJ deserved a crack at Tottenham and was treated appallingly by Vlad), I do want him gone in the summer. When I think we need to start again. And what we specifically need is:

 

- A manager and coaching staff who've spent much of their careers away from Scotland, so haven't been run down and kinda destroyed by continually losing to Celtic and Rangers for decades on end

 

- A mixture of fearless young players encouraged to express themselves and experienced types who've also spent much of their careers away from Scotland, and have far hungrier attitudes as a result.

 

I expected us to lose on Saturday. Most Hearts fans would have done. Maybe a number of the players did too. That's inevitable: it was Rangers. How can we expect anything else given what they spend and what we spend? But the kind of manager and players I'd want don't expect it, because they have much bigger horizons and are therefore far more demanding. 

 

Steven Naismith spent a good deal of his career in the EPL, so is more demanding. Steve Clarke worked under one of the greatest managers of all time (who himself worked under two of the greatest managers of all time), then managed in the EPL, so he's more demanding too. Jack Ross moved to England so he could broaden his horizons in a very tough, competitive pyramid. Those are examples of the kind of people we need.

 

I've got tons of time for everything Levein has done for Hearts... but he's jaded. Most managers in Scottish football end up like that because Scottish football is like the world which time forgot. It's Groundhog Day basically.

 

Very civil of you, shaun. 

 

[OBAN JAMBO]

On 20/04/2019 at 19:23, Gashauskis9 said:

If this is true then I doubt we’ll see him again.

But he’s the headmasters pet

[nathan brittles]

the basic facts do not lie.On the one hand,we have recruited a significant number of players who were clearly not up to standard ( never mind coming anywhere near the hype that accompanied their signing) so the fans are entitled to be disappointed.

We never field the same starting eleven ( ok the injury toll has been incredible and there should be an examination into that point) and it almost seems as if we keep trying new formations every game in a search for answers.Surely the example is shown by other clubs who stick to a top squad of 13 or 14 players and do not drop a player for one poor game.Players do need to get used to  regular partners and one of our big weaknesses this season has been uncertainty in how best to advance the ball ( witness Wrighton and Bozanic  on Saturday) and so we lose the ball or it gets the hoof up the park.( i would love to see the stats on how many times we have given possession away as against the number of times we have retained the ball after a long ball clearance)

Much as I admire his effort and commitment, it is clear that Uche needs an experienced partner but we have persisted in using young players who end up losing confidence after running pointlessly for most of the match.

What begins to happen then is that quality talent such as Arnold Djoum lose heart as his availabilty to receive a short pass is ignored when he is in a good position ( examples of that highlighted on Sportscene)

When your best footballers are frustrated by factors outside their control then you have serious problems and it up to the management team to sort it out.

The fans have every right to be upset by performances in recent weeks.

 

[jambonian]

On ‎20‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 23:53, graygo said:

 

But you said that because they pay twice that gives them a right to demand more? That makes absolutely no sense if that extra money is not going towards the playing staff.

The fact that Aberdeen have a higher wage bill than us surely means that we can't expect more than them.

Our budget isn't too far behind Aberdeen player-wise and we should still be competing with them for 3rd. We still pay higher wages than Hibs but they finished a massive 18 points ahead of us last season. They were something like 11 points behind us when Heckingbottom came in yet in the last two weeks they've went 5 points ahead again with a derby at their place next. Could easily be 8 points after Saturday.

Oh, and as for Killie....

Edited April 22, 2019 by jambonian

[Maple Leaf]

On 21/04/2019 at 11:24, SpruceBringsteen said:

Easy club to play for. Give it your all every game and fear no one. Rocket science it is not.

 

Correct.  Playing for Hearts is no more difficult than playing for any other club, probably a lot easier than playing for Rangers or Celtic where expectations are sky-high.

 

Our league campaign this year has been a debacle.  What started out promising ended up embarrassing and has failed to meet the club's own targets.

 

And that failure has nothing to do with the fans.  To me, the fans who attend games deserve a metaphorical pat on the back for their loyalty while enduring poor entertainment and poor results.

[graygo]

2 hours ago, jambonian said:

Our budget isn't too far behind Aberdeen player-wise and we should still be competing with them for 3rd. We still pay higher wages than Hibs but they finished a massive 18 points ahead of us last season. They were something like 11 points behind us when Heckingbottom came in yet in the last two weeks they've went 5 points ahead again with a derby at their place next. Could easily be 8 points after Saturday.

Oh, and as for Killie....

 

I get your point but Hibs did not go 5 points ahead of us at the weekend and they can't be 8 points ahead of us after Saturday (or Sunday for that matter.)

[pettigrewsstylist]

On 21/04/2019 at 12:32, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

We actually had more shots on goal and Mcgregor made the only save of note. 

The game was pretty even bar two errors that gifted goals. 

 

Two ridiculous errors cost us, so that backs up my quality argument. 

Folk like Bozanic and Wighton aren't at the level required. 

 

Nothing to do with guts imo. 

 

I agree reference the players and I'm sure we'll add more meat to the bones this summer. 

The game was pretty even? Seek help mate asap!

[Jammy T]

On 21/04/2019 at 15:06, Hampden Demolition said:

 

Neilson was targeted by a small minority of supporters. I would expect the vast majority of supporters are wanting Levein out.

 

Not true

 

Neilson was getting targeted every ****ing week from as soon as we got promoted - if not before - even during our run of 5 wins on the trot at the start of the first season, a load of loudmouth arseholes in here were mouthing off about him.

 

I’ve not lost faith in Levein as of yet

but we were going well under Neilson and I specifically referenced the phrase ‘careful what you wish for’ to the toleys trying to hound Neilson out at the time.

 

Hearta fans have been trying to hound managers out of our club for about 4 years solid now.

 

Total trumpet behaviour.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Jammy T

[MrWWallace]

What was the deal with the goal celibration against the huns? I dont see this anywhere

[jambonian]

12 hours ago, Jammy T said:

 

Not true

 

Neilson was getting targeted every ****ing week from as soon as we got promoted - if not before - even during our run of 5 wins on the trot at the start of the first season, a load of loudmouth arseholes in here were mouthing off about him.

 

I’ve not lost faith in Levein as of yet

but we were going well under Neilson and I specifically referenced the phrase ‘careful what you wish for’ to the toleys trying to hound Neilson out at the time.

 

Hearta fans have been trying to hound managers out of our club for about 4 years solid now.

 

Total trumpet behaviour.

Neilson had his time and he moved on. His record against Hibs and even St Johnstone was woeful, think it was one win in 8 against the Saints. Even the first game we won we lost goals against them at Tynie, the alarms were starting to be heard from then on. Losing to euro no-ones Birkirkara didn't help either. Neilson also used to try and see out games with defensive substitutions so when the opposition attacked there was no out ball (or player) for our defenders to find resulting in attack after attack until we lost late goals. The Hibs cup tie was a perfect example, 2-0 up with 8 minutes to go and the rest is history. I also recall being 2-1 up at Hamilton and losing 3-2 late on in the game again. There were too many points dropped in games like this which resulted in us finishing where we did, and where I expected us to finish given the signings made. The real problem wasn't Neilson leaving, it was not employing an experienced manager when he did go. That's down to Levein only wanting certain types that adhere to his philosophy, a philosophy that doesn't seem to work and we've been mid-table fodder and stagnant ever since. Loads of players have come and gone and replacements have hardly been much better than those before them, barring the the odd few now and again. Also too many "project" players which have rarely worked. The young players seem to have stagnated as well.

If you want to see a fresh approach then you do have to change management. Kilmarnock did it with Lee McCulloch and brought in Steve Clarke, likewise, Hibs were starting to lose their momentum from the previous season under Lennon so brought in Heckingbottom, now they've gone unbeaten in the League since, and overtaken us to boot. Sometimes a fresh start is all it takes.

Edited April 23, 2019 by jambonian

[PeterintheRain]

On 20/04/2019 at 18:45, The_razors_edge said:

 

Indeed. The fans will get out of the support what they put in on the pitch - put **** all in on the park, expect to get **** all support in return from the fans. It’s very much a two way, give and take relationship. 

 

That's not even been vaguely true for years.

 

Worst support ever.

[Stephen Muddie]

44 minutes ago, PeterintheRain said:

 

That's not even been vaguely true for years.

 

Worst support ever.

How are we the worst support ever? Just you stay in the rain Peter. I'm enjoying the sunshine.

 

The team is shit but it's not our fault. We are one of the most loyal and fanatical supports in the UK if not the world. 

 

The support is divided and that's not the support's fault. The buck stops with Craig Levein, the one constant through these last three embarrassing seasons.