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Extinction Rebellion


Lord BJ

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Francis Albert
1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

And there are plenty of ways for folk to ignore protests and their causes that don't inconvenience them. 

 

That's sort of the point. 

If I am sitting on a bus trying to get up the bridges what are the plenty of ways I can ignore the protest?

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Governor Tarkin
Just now, Francis Albert said:

If I am sitting on a bus trying to get up the bridges what are the plenty of ways I can ignore the protest?

 

My post was probably badly worded as I was twisting the words around from the post I'd quoted to make a point. Or maybe you've simply misread it. 

 

The post I'd quoted stated that there are many ways to mount a protest that wont inconvenience folk. 

My point is that if a protest doesn't inconvenience folk, the chances are they will simply ignore it. 

 

You're not sitting on a bus trying to get up the bridges though, are you, FA. 

 

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Francis Albert
14 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

My post was probably badly worded as I was twisting the words around from the post I'd quoted to make a point. Or maybe you've simply misread it. 

 

The post I'd quoted stated that there are many ways to mount a protest that wont inconvenience folk. 

My point is that if a protest doesn't inconvenience folk, the chances are they will simply ignore it. 

 

You're not sitting on a bus trying to get up the bridges though, are you, FA. 

 

No I am not. But if I was I would find it difficult to understand that there were many ways I could ignore the protest. I take your point that a protest that can easily be ignored is not much of a protest. But that means people can't have many ways of ignoring it.

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Is it about trying to gain public support or an attempt to try and hold the government to some form of ransom?

 

I think it’s probably more towards the latter than the former imo. 

 

They might have raised the profile, but I struggle to believe that’s more effective than say a David attenbourgh documentary in people taking up ‘the cause’ whatever that maybe. 

 

I guess, I feel people will go back to not caring/not doing anything/feeling helpless/etc/etc in a weeks time and if that continue the people’s patience will run out for ‘the cause’ and they will be seen as a pests. 

 

 

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The Internet
4 hours ago, JimKongUno said:

 

So whats your solution ?

 

go back to living in caves , living the life of a hunter gatherer or a mass cull of humans ?

 

A mass cull of humans is on the cards either way. 

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Francis Albert
7 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

A mass cull of humans is on the cards either way. 

Mass culls of humans have always occurred. Rather fewer now than in the past. As for the future who knows? I suspect these protesters will have close to zero.impact except on their own egos.

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Governor Tarkin
52 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

No I am not. But if I was I would find it difficult to understand that there were many ways I could ignore the protest. I take your point that a protest that can easily be ignored is not much of a protest. But that means people can't have many ways of ignoring it.

 

If you're not going to even attempt to decipher my oh so cryptic post then I'm not going to spell it out for you a second time. 

 

Suffice to say that you're barking up the wrong tree for the sake of an argument that's not there. 

 

Enjoy. 

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1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

If I am sitting on a bus trying to get up the bridges what are the plenty of ways I can ignore the protest?

If you were on the bus you could have simply got off and walked further up the road and caught another bus. Simple solution and minimal disruption to your time.....but you know that anyway.

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WorldChampions1902
4 hours ago, Geoff the Mince said:

Do you believe in anal probing ?

You  fail to address the argument.

 

Instead you attempt to belittle the poster.

 

Thoughts?

 

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Geoff Kilpatrick
6 hours ago, Stokesy said:

 

True to an extent. How any normal person behaves doesn't really matter. Whether or not I consume more than my fair share of resources has next to no difference. However, if everyone chose to be apathetic nothing would ever change. Multinationals, such as Apple, have changed their business practices in response to thousands to normal people generating negative publicity by highlighting their shady business practices.

You can call it apathy if you wish. I call it delusional. There is no way the first world can accept the lifestyle changes needed AND try to dictate to others that they should too. It's fecked.

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Jambo-Jimbo
48 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Is it about trying to gain public support or an attempt to try and hold the government to some form of ransom?

 

I think it’s probably more towards the latter than the former imo. 

 

They might have raised the profile, but I struggle to believe that’s more effective than say a David attenbourgh documentary in people taking up ‘the cause’ whatever that maybe. 

 

I guess, I feel people will go back to not caring/not doing anything/feeling helpless/etc/etc in a weeks time and if that continue the people’s patience will run out for ‘the cause’ and they will be seen as a pests. 

 

 

 

One of the members of the protest group ( a senior member I think) was interviewed on Sky news the other day, and in it he was on about creating a new world order, changing the way things are run which they would have a say in, bringing the criminals to justice, when asked who the criminals were he said the energy/oil/gas excutives who have all destroyed the planet (whilst ignoring the fact that he uses that energy), oh and he mentioned the worldwide revolution which is coming, and some of the things he wanted the authorities to do were just plain stupid and nigh near impossible, such as stopping the use of gas in the UK in the next 6 years by 2025.

 

He came over as a complete utter fruitcake, a grade one nutter, and needless to say he didn't convince me with his argument.

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21 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

One of the members of the protest group ( a senior member I think) was interviewed on Sky news the other day, and in it he was on about creating a new world order, changing the way things are run which they would have a say in, bringing the criminals to justice, when asked who the criminals were he said the energy/oil/gas excutives who have all destroyed the planet (whilst ignoring the fact that he uses that energy), oh and he mentioned the worldwide revolution which is coming, and some of the things he wanted the authorities to do were just plain stupid and nigh near impossible, such as stopping the use of gas in the UK in the next 6 years by 2025.

 

He came over as a complete utter fruitcake, a grade one nutter, and needless to say he didn't convince me with his argument.

That boy was awful and should have been kept away from the media. He couldn't even get their message right. Boulton sensed it a crucified him. On the other hand another member of the group was on BBC and was articulate and reasoned and sympathetic.

 

Just happens that she was a lawyer that helped draw up the Paris Agreement . She spoke passionately and sensibly.

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Geoff Kilpatrick
1 minute ago, Notts1874 said:

That boy was awful and should have been kept away from the media. He couldn't even get their message right. Boulton sensed it a crucified him. On the other hand another member of the group was on BBC and was articulate and reasoned and sympathetic.

 

Just happens that she was a lawyer that helped draw up the Paris Agreement . She spoke passionately and sensibly.

Is that the one that glued her hands outside the Shell building? Stunts like that make these people look pathetic.

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1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Is that the one that glued her hands outside the Shell building? Stunts like that make these people look pathetic.

In your opinion maybe. Got her on the national news though.

I'm on the fence with this. This seems to have been a well organised and thought out protest by and large. Don't all turn up at once. Don't do anything the police can lock you up for. Try and engage with those you are obviously pissing off.

 

I get what you're saying in that they are pissing in the wind but I think 90% of them genuinely care.

 

On a side note I have only taken part in one street protest. It was against the Criminal Justice Bill and we knew it would be a massive party and all the clubs in London opened for free that night. We obviously achieved **** all.?

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WorldChampions1902
16 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

 

I'm on the fence with this..

Sadly.......this I fear is where the vast majority are. But this issue is the greatest ever threat to humankind IMHO. If it takes disruption across the country to force meaningful and lasting change, then it's a small price to pay.

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Geoff Kilpatrick
26 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

In your opinion maybe. Got her on the national news though.

I'm on the fence with this. This seems to have been a well organised and thought out protest by and large. Don't all turn up at once. Don't do anything the police can lock you up for. Try and engage with those you are obviously pissing off.

 

I get what you're saying in that they are pissing in the wind but I think 90% of them genuinely care.

 

On a side note I have only taken part in one street protest. It was against the Criminal Justice Bill and we knew it would be a massive party and all the clubs in London opened for free that night. We obviously achieved **** all.?

I don't doubt they care. It might sound like I don't care but it is all about perspective. Humans think we have control of these forces and that if we stop consuming and using energy like we do we can not only check global warming but we can also keep around 8 billion of us on this planet. We can't.

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2 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Sadly.......this I fear is where the vast majority are. But this issue is the greatest ever threat to humankind IMHO. If it takes disruption across the country to force meaningful and lasting change, then it's a small price to pay.

You have misunderstood me. I completely agree with the cause I'm just not sure this is the best way to go about it.....but it certainly seems to be getting publicly.

 

Before you ask I don't know what way I would go about it?

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8 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Sadly.......this I fear is where the vast majority are. But this issue is the greatest ever threat to humankind IMHO. If it takes disruption across the country to force meaningful and lasting change, then it's a small price to pay.

 

What actual change? (not directed at you specifically) 

 

Someone on news said to meet their 2025 target all air travel would need to stop. 

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4 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I don't doubt they care. It might sound like I don't care but it is all about perspective. Humans think we have control of these forces and that if we stop consuming and using energy like we do we can not only check global warming but we can also keep around 8 billion of us on this planet. We can't.

The dont care bit wasnt aimed at you but rather those further up the thread.

I agree though, the game could be up, but it shouldn't stop folk trying to affect change. Their cause is certainly more just than mine when I basically went for a party in Trafalgar Square.

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WorldChampions1902
2 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

You have misunderstood me. I completely agree with the cause I'm just not sure this is the best way to go about it.....but it certainly seems to be getting publicly.

 

Before you ask I don't know what way I would go about it?

No problem.

My daughter lives and works in London. She is annoyed about the disruption but equally in agreement with the protest aims.

The point is this. Successive  governments and countless corporate giants over decades have stated their intentions/policies about looking after the planet. They have failed. MISERABLY. They continue to fail. MISERABLY. Consequently, we are on the abyss. It is crystal clear now that Corporations and Government don't give a ****. When that happens, protest is the only answer.

Despite your comments, it CAN succeed. I am old enough to remember the Vietnam marches and ultimately, they were pivotal in the US withdrawing.

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WorldChampions1902
14 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

You have misunderstood me. I completely agree with the cause I'm just not sure this is the best way to go about it.....but it certainly seems to be getting publicly.

 

Before you ask I don't know what way I would go about it?

Oh.... BTW,  I acknowledge your agreement about the cause.

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5 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

No problem.

My daughter lives and works in London. She is annoyed about the disruption but equally in agreement with the protest aims.

The point is this. Successive  governments and countless corporate giants over decades have stated their intentions/policies about looking after the planet. They have failed. MISERABLY. They continue to fail. MISERABLY. Consequently, we are on the abyss. It is crystal clear now that Corporations and Government don't give a ****. When that happens, protest is the only answer.

Despite your comments, it CAN succeed. I am old enough to remember the Vietnam marches and ultimately, they were pivotal in the US withdrawing.

I don't disagree with anything you have said about governments and big business. Consumers are starting to change the way companies work.

 

I'm not old enough to remember the Vietnam marches ? and yes they did succeed, but that was one population against one government.

 

I really really hope these people affect change or at the very least keep the argument to the front of peoples thoughts.

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Hate all the war in the world. So much hate. I think I might start a facebook page and chain myself to a big bad Tories skin pipe.

 

#fightinghateandinjustice

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10 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Meaningless. 

 

Enjoy your afternoon ciders though :thumb:

Cheers, but I had too many.  I had a good kip, tho. :D

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1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

Hate all the war in the world. So much hate. I think I might start a facebook page and chain myself to a big bad Tories skin pipe.

 

#fightinghateandinjustice

Or you could question said Tory, if you have the chance.

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Brighton Jambo

Can anyone tell me what this group is trying to achieve?  Specifically, not some vague notion of highlighting the risk of climate change to the planet.  No thought not.  

 

Until they get a coherent message that everyday people can buy into or can contribute to with tangible manageable lifestyle changes they are just a group of people alienating and irritating the very people they need to have their cause gain some genuine momentum.  

 

This is is a poorly thought through plan that has undermined their overall cause.  

 

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Governor Tarkin
2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Or you could question said Tory, if you have the chance.

 

He'd be too busy posturing on Kickback. 

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Governor Tarkin
33 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

 

This is is a poorly thought through plan that has undermined their overall cause.  

 

 

What is this overall cause and how have they undermined it? 

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12 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

He'd be too busy posturing on Kickback. 

Could be describing half of KB (Or me!). But,  not your goodself, obviously. :)

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43 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Can anyone tell me what this group is trying to achieve?  

 

 

They have 3 aims for governments to declare an ecological emergency, greenhouse gases to be brought to net zero by 2025, and the creation of a citizens’ assembly to lead action on the environment.

 

It was in the article posted in the OP.

 

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Governor Tarkin
14 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Could be describing half of KB (Or me!). But,  not your goodself, obviously. :)

 

We don't posture, buddy, we just talk shite. ?

 

I don't even have the excuse of afternoon ciders in the sunshine. :(

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Governor Tarkin
16 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

They have 3 aims for governments to declare an ecological emergency, greenhouse gases to be brought to net zero by 2025, and the creation of a citizens’ assembly to lead action on the environment.

 

It was in the article posted in the OP.

 

 

:interehjrling:

 

Seems pretty sensible and straightforward to me. 

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12 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

We don't posture, buddy, we just talk shite. ?

 

I don't even have the excuse of afternoon ciders in the sunshine. :(

Talking shite is my life obsession.

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I kind of admire that they care enough to do something; I just don’t agree with the method.

 

Developing countries are now doing what we did when we were developing.  Hard to take the moral high ground.

 

Electric cars, clean energy, etc are grand, but the cynic in me thinks they are being driven more by a relinquishing oil supply than any attempt to reverse the damage.

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The Real Maroonblood
22 hours ago, Craig_ said:

Fair play to them. It's quite clear that it's nigh on impossible to enact any change through the political process, so direct action is the only way forward. 

 

As you say though, they could be a bit smarter about it and try to get the public onside more. 

 

No doubt our resident forelock-rugging reactionaries will be on here sharpish to tell us they should be water cannoned. 

:greatpost:

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6 minutes ago, Haken said:

I kind of admire that they care enough to do something; I just don’t agree with the method.

 

Developing countries are now doing what we did when we were developing.  Hard to take the moral high ground.

 

Electric cars, clean energy, etc are grand, but the cynic in me thinks they are being driven more by a relinquishing oil supply than any attempt to reverse the damage.

We're still doing it thro these so called developing countries. If I paid someone to kill someone, I'd still be a murderer.

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26 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

:interehjrling:

 

Seems pretty sensible and straightforward to me. 

 

Mmm...... I’m not convinced they are sensible and they’re certainly not straightforward.

 

They are clear and well intentioned though, that doesn’t necessarily make them effective in addressing the climate change happening  to this planet. 

 

I could explain why but don’t think that was the point of your post!!!

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Brighton Jambo
1 hour ago, Lord BJ said:

 

They have 3 aims for governments to declare an ecological emergency, greenhouse gases to be brought to net zero by 2025, and the creation of a citizens’ assembly to lead action on the environment.

 

It was in the article posted in the OP.

 

My point was more that I have heard and seen these protests being covered everywhere but these aims are rarely cited.  I doubt many people could list this as what they are trying to achieve.  Surely making these the focus of their message is more important than the news coverage that focuses on the nature of their protest.  

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Brighton Jambo
1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

What is this overall cause and how have they undermined it? 

I would have assumed a large part of their cause is to persuade others as to the validity of their views.  If the masses get on board then there is more chance of a change happening.  I wouldn’t think many of the everyday people in London who have been massively inconvenienced this week are feeling very sympathetic or supportive right now. These are the people I would think they want joining the fight 

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Governor Tarkin
1 minute ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I wouldn’t think many of the everyday people in London who have been massively inconvenienced this week are feeling very sympathetic or supportive right now. These are the people I would think they want joining the fight 

 

If you regard the recent protests as an exercise in attention grabbing then you'd have to concede that they've been reasonably successful. 

 

That Joe Public has been mildly inconvenienced (in the grand scheme of things) is a necessary evil. You can't make an omlette without breaking eggs, right? (Sorry, that probably comes across as patronising as ****). 

 

It's what use is now made of that attention that will define the overall success of the movement with regards to it's stated aims. 

 

 

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Jambo-Jimbo
9 hours ago, Notts1874 said:

That boy was awful and should have been kept away from the media. He couldn't even get their message right. Boulton sensed it a crucified him. On the other hand another member of the group was on BBC and was articulate and reasoned and sympathetic.

 

Just happens that she was a lawyer that helped draw up the Paris Agreement . She spoke passionately and sensibly.

 

Might have been a different guy or the same guy interviewed twice, as the one I seen was in the studio being interviewed by Sarah-Jane Mee, he was a black guy wearing a stripey jumper.

 

Did see Boulton crucify one of the co-founders of XR Dr. Gail Bradbrook she had a car-crash interview with Boulton, where she just didn't seem to know any of the answers to Boulton's questions to which Boulton just ripped her to shreads, she was also on the radio where she was urging people to take time off work so as they could come down and join the protests, the interviewer pointed out that not everybody was as privileged as she was to be able to afford to take time off work.

 

Some folks shouldn't be anywhere near a microphone.

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Governor Tarkin
15 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Some folks shouldn't be anywhere near a microphone.

 

Correct. Regardless of how well intentioned.

 

On the other hand, the deliberate selection of hapless interviewees can go a long way to discrediting a movement. 

 

:interehjrling:

 

With a loosely cohesive organisation made up primarilly of the general public there will be no shortage of suitable candidates to choose from. 

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40 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

If you regard the recent protests as an exercise in attention grabbing then you'd have to concede that they've been reasonably successful. 

 

That Joe Public has been mildly inconvenienced (in the grand scheme of things) is a necessary evil. You can't make an omlette without breaking eggs, right? (Sorry, that probably comes across as patronising as ****). 

 

It's what use is now made of that attention that will define the overall success of the movement with regards to it's stated aims. 

 

 

Exactly, peaceful protest gets no publicity these days. 

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Jambo-Jimbo
14 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Correct. Regardless of how well intentioned.

 

On the other hand, the deliberate selection of hapless interviewees can go a long way to discrediting a movement. 

 

:interehjrling:

 

With a loosely cohesive organisation made up primarilly of the general public there will be no shortage of suitable candidates to choose from. 

 

They can refuse to be interviewed, they don't have to give an interview if they didn't want to, and you'd think that a co-founder of something would have a good idea what the organisation stood for, but this wifey just seems to be all over the place and not just in one interview either, which means you'd think that her fellow co-founders would be having a wee word with her to stop giving interviews.

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4 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

They can refuse to be interviewed, they don't have to give an interview if they didn't want to, and you'd think that a co-founder of something would have a good idea what the organisation stood for, but this wifey just seems to be all over the place and not just in one interview either, which means you'd think that her fellow co-founders would be having a wee word with her to stop giving interviews.

Maybe she's a bit distracted by what they're trying to achieve. A bit like interviews after a football game or a UFC fighter. Don't interview the loser, but they all do, except JR.

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Governor Tarkin
22 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

They can refuse to be interviewed, they don't have to give an interview if they didn't want to, and you'd think that a co-founder of something would have a good idea what the organisation stood for, but this wifey just seems to be all over the place and not just in one interview either, which means you'd think that her fellow co-founders would be having a wee word with her to stop giving interviews.

 

In general, folk who are at the head of an organisation who are in the publicity game tend not to refuse interviews. 

 

That she's shit at them is neither here nor there. 

 

Maybe her co-founders are worse. Maybe they don't care. Maybe they're labouring under the mantra of no publicity is bad publicity. They're an un-professional organisation after all.

 

Before you poo-poo this lot you'd do well to ask yourself what the rest of us are doing about anthropogenic climate change and environmental degredation/pollution? Not a lot beyond a few LED lightbulbs and walking to the shops I'd hazard. The fact that developing and industrialised nations are doing diddly squat makes us feel powerless. It's also a handy excuse to hide behind and justify our own lack of action. At least this shower are making a tangible effort to do SOMETHING. Whatever that something might turn out to be. More power to them. Hopefully the more sentient amongst us can see beyond some temporary mild inconvenience and shoddy interview techiques and take ownership of the bigger picture. 

 

Or you could self-justify your choice of the easy option by wrapping yourself in the nihilistic comfort blanket that reads 'we're all ****ed anyway so why bother'. 

 

Edited by Governor Tarkin
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32 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

In general, folk who are at the head of an organisation who are in the publicity game tend not to refuse interviews. 

 

That she's shit at them is neither here nor there. 

 

Maybe her co-founders are worse. Maybe they don't care. Maybe they're labouring under the mantra of no publicity is bad publicity. They're an un-professional organisation after all.

 

Before you poo-poo this lot you'd do well to ask yourself what the rest of us are doing about anthropogenic climate change and environmental degredation/pollution? Not a lot beyond a few LED lightbulbs and walking to the shops I'd hazard. The fact that developing and industrialised nations are doing diddly squat makes us feel powerless. It's also a handy excuse to hide behind and justify our own lack of action. At least this shower are making a tangible effort to do SOMETHING. Whatever that something might turn out to be. More power to them. Hopefully the more sentient amongst us can see beyond some temporary mild inconvenience and shoddy interview techiques and take ownership of the bigger picture. 

 

Or you could self-justify your choice of the easy option by wrapping yourself in the nihilistic comfort blanket that reads 'we're all ****ed anyway so why bother'. 

 

?

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