Keena and Morrison out for the season

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

How people are still of the delusion that it has nothing to do with medical team or coaching staff is beyond me.

 

It is like everyday 30 people eat at the same restaurant and people keep getting food poisoning and no-one is even questioning the restaurant, chef or food.  It's the stuff they buy outside the restaurant that is making them ill ffs!

 

 

 

or most likely just bad luck

 

 

 

[Pants Shaton]

14 hours ago, McCrae said:

Something very wrong with how we train and manage players.  We just shouldn’t be having  this number of injuries.

 

Can only assume you work at Riccarton with the coaching and medical staff and have orthopaedic or sports medicine expertise.  Otherwise, I’d be included to ignore this. 

 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

10 minutes ago, Pants Shaton said:

 

Can only assume you work at Riccarton with the coaching and medical staff and have orthopaedic or sports medicine expertise.  Otherwise, I’d be included to ignore this. 

 

 

 

yes because people should only have opinions on stuff they have expert knowledge of

 

r.i.p this forum

 

 

[CJGJ]

I think people should do a bit of homework before handing out accusations left right and centre

 

How many injuries have come as a result of tackles, contact etc during matches ?....those are simply bad luck and nothing to do with the medical staff etc or training schedule

 

90% of our injuries have come during match situations

[¼½¾]

15 hours ago, OTT said:

 

Yeah, theres unlucky and there is whatever this is. 

 

By my count,

 

Berra 

Souttar, Uche

Naismith,

Dikamona

Haring

Mitchell

Naismith

Smith

Godinho

Wighton

Brandon

Garuccio

Morrison

Keena

 

13 serious injuries? I think we seriously need to review how we're going about things. Are players not being given adequate recovery time? Are they not fit enough and so pushing themselves to injury? Are we training on a shit surface?

 

I know most of these have been ingame injuries but nonetheless the volume goes beyond being able to just chalk up as 'bad luck'. 

 

And I'm 90% sure i've missed a couple.

Not the absense of keepers on the list.  Rolly pollys and cartwheels need to be added to all players warm ups IMO. 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

11 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

I think people should do a bit of homework before handing out accusations left right and centre

 

How many injuries have come as a result of tackles, contact etc during matches ?....those are simply bad luck and nothing to do with the medical staff etc or training schedule

 

90% of our injuries have come during match situations

 

tackles and contact during matches may be the primary source of some injuries the training regime and type of fitness of the player still won't be independent to the outcome

 

not convinced its 90% either or at least as a result of a tackle or contact

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

Can’t understand why Morrison was playing in that game on that pitch, even then take him off when it’s done and dusted. He’s had an injury for months.We really could’ve used his pace to look after Tierney in the final, or at least have the option.

 

[Jammy T]

5 hours ago, Gavman81 said:

Levein is quoted today that we are going to review our training processes to see if there is an underlying issue....

I’ve never heard of anything like this before  so would appear that the club are now genuinely concerned and that there could, and I stress could, be a problem behind the scenes.

 

If true, incompetence doesn’t even begin to cover it and we may have contributed to our own downfall this season.

 

 

 

What about all the bad injuries to key players in the Scotland rugby team this season - is that Levein’s fault as well?

 

Sometimes shit just happens

[Jammy T]

See Callumn Paterson got injured again - must be down to his base levels of poor fitness and negligent training that he had from his time at Hearts.....

Edited April 19, 2019 by Jammy T

[Seymour M Hersh]

19 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

See Callumn Paterson got injured again - must be down to his base levels of poor fitness and negligent training that he had from his time at Hearts.....

 

 

[Kiwidoug]

I wish the guy who put the heid on Chridtie had put it on a Forest instead.

[Gavman81]

29 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

 

What about all the bad injuries to key players in the Scotland rugby team this season - is that Levein’s fault as well?

 

Sometimes shit just happens

True, but our manager and DOF is now confirming they are reviewing their procedures. This would imply there is now sufficient concern to do so and an acknowledgment that there may be a problem. 

 

In 30 years of watching Hearts and indeed Scottish football I’ve never known a team to get so many injuries - you used to make it through the 80s with just 14/15 players sometimes - it’s nuts. 

 

To say its it’s all bad luck is as naive as not  admitting there could be an issue. 

[Jammy T]

5 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

I wish the guy who put the heid on Chridtie had put it on a Forest instead.

 

It was Christie that ****ed us over in the Diddy Cup is it not?

[Kiwidoug]

2 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

 

It was Christie that ****ed us over in the Diddy Cup is it not?

That was Naismith.

[Jammy T]

Just now, Gavman81 said:

True, but our manager and DOF is now confirming they are reviewing their procedures. This would imply there is now sufficient concern to do so and an acknowledgment that there may be a problem. 

 

In 30 years of watching Hearts and indeed Scottish football I’ve never known a team to get so many injuries - you used to make it through the 80s with just 14/15 players sometimes - it’s nuts. 

 

To say its it’s all bad luck is as naive as not  admitting there could be an issue. 

 

It doesn’t imply anything

 

Its basically the equivalent of a quality assurance process following an unusually high incident of risk events occurring.

 

It would be negligent not to do this but is not indicative or implicit of any negligence to date.

 

Our background fitness/training team have been credited with excellent work in getting our players who were injured back fit ahead of schedule and the tests done to ensure players are properly fit to play a game are advanced.

[Jammy T]

1 minute ago, Kiwidoug said:

That was Naismith.

 

Aye - fair point, but some Celtic ***** got injured and Christie came on and ran the show, did he not?

 

Or was that a different game? 

Edited April 19, 2019 by Jammy T

[Boab]

Another kick in the stones !

Bad season for injuries.

[allystrachan]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36189778

 

A small article on Leicester city’s sports science the year they won the league.

 

Not every injury can be prevented but you can work towards reducing the chance of injury.

[Rudy T]

I don’t know how anyone can put this down to bad luck. 

 

Something is far wrong, the training, the surface, the medical staff, footwear...I honestly don’t know but this is far too many to be simply bad luck!

[Clerry Jambo]

54 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

 

Aye - fair point, but some Celtic ***** got injured and Christie came on and ran the show, did he not?

 

Or was that a different game? 

Correct jammy 

[Jammy T]

20 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

I don’t know how anyone can put this down to bad luck. 

 

Something is far wrong, the training, the surface, the medical staff, footwear...I honestly don’t know but this is far too many to be simply bad luck!

 

Bad lack is maybe a bit broad:

 

- Some bad luck

- Scottish football being pretty dirty/hard

- Refs doing everything possible not to protect Hearts players when it comes to physical engagement on the pitch 

 

A hernia isn’t down to a training regime.

Neither is an injury picked up when a player is playing for Scotland, or tearing a full hamstring because of the way he landed in a live game, or a broken bone due to an oppo player standing on it etc etc.

[Craig Gordons Gloves]

Was Souttar not injured on international duty away to Israel as well?

 

[PeterintheRain]

21 hours ago, OTT said:

 

Yeah, theres unlucky and there is whatever this is. 

 

By my count,

 

Berra 

Souttar, Uche

Naismith,

Dikamona

Haring

Mitchell

Naismith

Smith

Godinho

Wighton

Brandon

Garuccio

Morrison

Keena

 

13 serious injuries? I think we seriously need to review how we're going about things. Are players not being given adequate recovery time? Are they not fit enough and so pushing themselves to injury? Are we training on a shit surface?

 

I know most of these have been ingame injuries but nonetheless the volume goes beyond being able to just chalk up as 'bad luck'. 

 

And I'm 90% sure i've missed a couple.

 

 Every single player in our squad could be injured and it would be down to bad luck.    

 

    One of the main causes of injuries is the way our players are smashed about every game without any protection.  When is our inglorious charwoman going to make a statement about that?

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

it's just bad luck

 

good luck when they're fit bad luck when they're not

 

i hope we're not paying these fitness gurus much

 

 

 

[OTT]

27 minutes ago, PeterintheRain said:

 

 Every single player in our squad could be injured and it would be down to bad luck.    

 

    One of the main causes of injuries is the way our players are smashed about every game without any protection.  When is our inglorious charwoman going to make a statement about that?

 

Aye if the bad luck you're talking about includes dropping bowling balls on their ankles!

 

Bad luck is 100% an element but its improbable it is the only element.  

 

Perhaps we're overplaying certain players - There are a million potential reasons, I'm just glad Levein is doing a review to try and get to the bottom of this. 

 

Edit: i agree Budge should make a statement when a like for like comparison can be made.

Edited April 19, 2019 by OTT

[graygo]

36 minutes ago, PeterintheRain said:

 

 Every single player in our squad could be injured and it would be down to bad luck.    

 

    One of the main causes of injuries is the way our players are smashed about every game without any protection.  When is our inglorious charwoman going to make a statement about that?

 

Exactly, the very definition of the term bad luck.

[Debut 4]

Over the months, stretching back to August, Sept last year initially, I worked beside some ex pros and other guys who’ve played at a decent level. Older guys, in their 50s now.

 

One opinion shared by most was lack of fat protecting the joints or other areas.

 

Players seem trained to within an inch of having zero fat these days.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Debut 4

[The Goalscoring Knee]

19 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

One opinion shared by most was lack of fat protecting the joints or other areas.

 

Players seem trained to within an inch of having zero fat these days.

That, and playing in the ultra-light-super-speedy-great-for-control-bugger-all-protection carpet slippers.

[Debut 4]

3 minutes ago, The Goalscoring Knee said:

That, and playing in the ultra-light-super-speedy-great-for-control-bugger-all-protection carpet slippers.

 

3 minutes ago, The Goalscoring Knee said:

That, and playing in the ultra-light-super-speedy-great-for-control-bugger-all-protection carpet slippers.

Yip.  

[JamboGraham]

These stats are only for players who have had actual game time in a league match this season.

 

Killie have used 29 players in 33 matches. 4 players (14%) have been injured this season, unavailable for 15 matches.

 

Aberdeen have used 26 players in 33 matches, 14 players (54%) have been injured this season, unavailable for 71 matches.

 

Hibs have used 35 players in 33 matches, 15 players (43%) have been injured this season, unavailable for 128 matches.

 

Hearts have used 31 players in 33 matches, 17 players (55%) have been injured this season, unavailable for 141 matches.

 

*We move to 19 players after tomorrow’s match.

[JamboGraham]

I posted this on page 1 but perhaps better in context with the stats in my post above...

 

Included in this 17 are 7 who were selected for every other league match they were actually available to play in (Naismith, Uche, Berra, Souttar, Haring, Smith and Mitchell). As a result of injuries these 7 players have been unavailable for a total of 78 league matches between them this season.

[tcjambo]

4 hours ago, Gavman81 said:

True, but our manager and DOF is now confirming they are reviewing their procedures. This would imply there is now sufficient concern to do so and an acknowledgment that there may be a problem. 

 

In 30 years of watching Hearts and indeed Scottish football I’ve never known a team to get so many injuries - you used to make it through the 80s with just 14/15 players sometimes - it’s nuts. 

 

To say its it’s all bad luck is as naive as not  admitting there could be an issue. 

Well if they are reviewing procedures is that not a good thing?

[Jammy T]

2 hours ago, Craig Gordons Gloves said:

Was Souttar not injured on international duty away to Israel as well?

 

 

Yes 

[Jammy T]

35 minutes ago, JamboGraham said:

These stats are only for players who have had actual game time in a league match this season.

 

Killie have used 29 players in 33 matches. 4 players (14%) have been injured this season, unavailable for 15 matches.

 

Aberdeen have used 26 players in 33 matches, 14 players (54%) have been injured this season, unavailable for 71 matches.

 

Hibs have used 35 players in 33 matches, 15 players (43%) have been injured this season, unavailable for 128 matches.

 

Hearts have used 31 players in 33 matches, 17 players (55%) have been injured this season, unavailable for 141 matches.

 

*We move to 19 players after tomorrow’s match.

 

Interesting stats

 

A lot of teams ****ing up their training then and tinkering with their team

 

Levein has more influence and control all over football than we thought.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Jammy T

[DalryJambo]

9 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

How people are still of the delusion that it has nothing to do with medical team or coaching staff is beyond me.

 

It is like everyday 30 people eat at the same restaurant and people keep getting food poisoning and no-one is even questioning the restaurant, chef or food.  It's the stuff they buy outside the restaurant that is making them ill ffs!

 

 

 

What a lot of nonsense. At least 75% of the injuries, if not more, have happened during games being played across a number of venues. 

 

Question to all the people claiming this is training related...is it training too hard or too easy? What is it that’s being done during training that’s causing these injuries during games? 

 

Football is is a dynamic impact sport and as such injuries happen.

 

i played football right through school, 2 or 3 games a week with school and club and training 2-3 times a week on top. Never had a injury of note... until one day playing in goals at 5 aside i twisted and stretched badly.  That was effectively the end of football for me. Nothing to do with training or surfaces...just bad luck.

 

People are queuing up to have a pop at the club on the basis of a series of unrelated injuries. It’s pathetic.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

7 minutes ago, DalryJambo said:

 

What a lot of nonsense. At least 75% of the injuries, if not more, have happened during games being played across a number of venues. 

 

Question to all the people claiming this is training related...is it training too hard or too easy? What is it that’s being done during training that’s causing these injuries during games? 

 

Football is is a dynamic impact sport and as such injuries happen.

 

i played football right through school, 2 or 3 games a week with school and club and training 2-3 times a week on top. Never had a injury of note... until one day playing in goals at 5 aside i twisted and stretched badly.  That was effectively the end of football for me. Nothing to do with training or surfaces...just bad luck.

 

People are queuing up to have a pop at the club on the basis of a series of unrelated injuries. It’s pathetic.

 

^^

somebodys granny smoked everyday and lived til she was 99 therefore smoking is good for you type example

[DalryJambo]

5 hours ago, Gavman81 said:

True, but our manager and DOF is now confirming they are reviewing their procedures. This would imply there is now sufficient concern to do so and an acknowledgment that there may be a problem. 

 

In 30 years of watching Hearts and indeed Scottish football I’ve never known a team to get so many injuries - you used to make it through the 80s with just 14/15 players sometimes - it’s nuts. 

 

To say its it’s all bad luck is as naive as not  admitting there could be an issue. 

 

You don’t need ‘sufficient concern’ to review procedures you need a reason. We’ve had lots of injuries so they will review how we train and condition the players. That’s just due diligence.  

 

You can call for a review whilst being sure in yourself that everyone’s doing things correctly, but at the same time be professional enough to allow a third party to review things and provide impartial feedback.

 

Im sure the players, via the Captain, would be the first to comment if they felt training and treatment etc was putting them at risk of injury.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

35 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

 

Interesting stats

 

A lot of teams ****ing up their training then and tinkering with their team

 

Levein has more influence and control all over football than we thought.

 

do the stats not show hearts at the top of the crock league by both measures?

 

at least the poster has got the stats rather than just say it's bad luck or some other defensive nonsense of no substance 

[graygo]

14 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

do the stats not show hearts at the top of the crock league by both measures?

 

at least the poster has got the stats rather than just say it's bad luck or some other defensive nonsense of no substance 

 

Why only the teams quoted and not the rest of the league? 

 

Question not aimed at you by the way but I did a similar exercise a couple of months back and we were not out of the ordinary then and probably aren't now.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

3 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Why only the teams quoted and not the rest of the league? 

 

Question not aimed at you by the way but I did a similar exercise a couple of months back and we were not out of the ordinary then and probably aren't now.

 

not sure regarding teams included/excluded 

 

im not sure either what would be deemed a significant difference so the stats are open to lots of 'experts' saying xyz like it means anything (like I did)

 

its a step forward from claiming it's all down to luck and folk questioning it are hibs fans etc etc

 

 

[JamboGraham]

3 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Why only the teams quoted and not the rest of the league? 

 

Question not aimed at you by the way but I did a similar exercise a couple of months back and we were not out of the ordinary then and probably aren't now.

 

Wasn’t really intending to do a full check of the league, didn't feel it was too significant now that we have split. I was mainly interested in comparing to other similar sized clubs. I actually think the other stat about the 7 injured Hearts players who played in every match they were available for tells us a lot more about our current position. 

 

I actually only checked Killie as an after thought...regardless of debate of all other factors I am calling their unusually light injury record as a significant factor (the most significant factor?) in their unusually high league position!!!

[Jammy T]

29 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

do the stats not show hearts at the top of the crock league by both measures?

 

at least the poster has got the stats rather than just say it's bad luck or some other defensive nonsense of no substance 

 

Marginally. Very marginally.

[JamboGraham]

10 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

Marginally. Very marginally.

 

Exclude the ‘Scotland’ injury and we have an identical unavailable matches total as Hibs.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

1 hour ago, Jammy T said:

 

Marginally. Very marginally.

 

You've apparently defined 8% and 13 games as very  marginal

 

I can think of many scenarios where less than 1% is considered significant and if we faced rangers tomorrow without soutar Berra Smith and uche the deterioration of our chances would likely be more than marginal

 

Good try though if a bit predictable

 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

1 hour ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Exclude the ‘Scotland’ injury and we have an identical unavailable matches total as Hibs.

 

Maybe we shouldn't get too excited about matching the hibs - we're lead to believe they train on a ploughed farmers field

 

maybe due to hearts flawed training regime it was inevitable that soutar would get injured at some stage rather than it being a Scotland specific event

 

Any hibs players injured on international duty?

 

How do the numbers look if we exclude injuries occurring in lunchtimes games? What about excluding injuries occurring on a Tuesday?

 

 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

Maybe we shouldn't get too excited about matching the hibs - we're lead to believe they train on a ploughed farmers field

 

maybe due to hearts flawed training regime it was inevitable that soutar would get injured at some stage rather than it being a Scotland specific event

 

Any hibs players injured on international duty?

 

How do the numbers look if we exclude injuries occurring in lunchtimes games? What about excluding injuries occurring on a Tuesday?

 

 

 

It's a weird look to defend Hibs while having a go at Hearts on a Hearts forum.

 

Anyhow, I'm sure Budge will be asking about all the injuries when reviewing the season with the relevant people to see if anything can be done to improve things. 

 

One thing we maybe do more than other clubs is take risks on players carrying fixable (we think) injuries when they sign or with some history of injuries. It could be the only way we get certain players. Sometimes it pays off (Sow, Zeefuik, Naismith who we probably only got because he had been out with an injury, Clare maybe) and sometimes it doesn't.

 

And to be fair all clubs do it. Cardiff signed Paterson when he was injured. Wigan took on Walker.

 

That could be something Budge looks at and decides maybe we shouldn't take so many of those risks. Arguably we shouldn't have to so much in future as we won't be making so many wholesale changes to the squad.

 

The last 5 years have been unique in terms of the multiple things needing fixing at the club. We'll never (hopefully) have another 5 year period like it and can now focus on the team.

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Guest

[JamboGraham]

4 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

Maybe we shouldn't get too excited about matching the hibs - we're lead to believe they train on a ploughed farmers field

 

Much as we like to poke fun at our city rivals over their rural training location I think we can all accept that their facility is of a perfectly acceptable standard for a top tier Scottish club.

 

6 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

maybe due to hearts flawed training regime it was inevitable that soutar would get injured at some stage rather than it being a Scotland specific event

 

Maybe is the correct word as there is of course no way a claim like that could be ever be tested nor proven.

 

9 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

Any hibs players injured on international duty?

 

I don’t personally have enough knowledge of individual Hibs players to answer that and I am certainly not going to invest time researching a single one of them.

 

11 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

How do the numbers look if we exclude injuries occurring in lunchtimes games? What about excluding injuries occurring on a Tuesday?

 

The source data doesn’t break it down into time of day or day of week for injuries occurring. Do you have a theory to share?

[graygo]

4 hours ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

You've apparently defined 8% and 13 games as very  marginal

 

I can think of many scenarios where less than 1% is considered significant and if we faced rangers tomorrow without soutar Berra Smith and uche the deterioration of our chances would likely be more than marginal

 

Good try though if a bit predictable

 

 

 

With 11 players in a team I would say that 8% is marginal, not sure how you can get ant less than that to be honest. Losing 3 players as you suggest would deteriorate our chances a bit more than marginal but then that is about 27%.

Edited April 20, 2019 by graygo

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

6 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It's a weird look to defend Hibs while having a go at Hearts on a Hearts forum.

 

Anyhow, I'm sure Budge will be asking about all the injuries when reviewing the season with the relevant people to see if anything can be done to improve things. 

 

One thing we maybe do more than other clubs is take risks on players carrying fixable (we think) injuries when they sign or with some history of injuries. It could be the only way we get certain players. Sometimes it pays off (Sow, Zeefuik, Naismith who we probably only got because he had been out with an injury, Clare maybe) and sometimes it doesn't.

 

And to be fair all clubs do it. Cardiff signed Paterson when he was injured. Wigan took on Walker.

 

That could be something Budge looks at and decides maybe we shouldn't take so many of those risks. Arguably we shouldn't have to so much in future as we won't be making so many wholesale changes to the squad.

 

The last 5 years have been unique in terms of the multiple things needing fixing at the club. We'll never (hopefully) have another 5 year period like it and can now focus on the team.

 

 

sounds a plan - if mrs B etc are just putting it down to bad luck and trying to close down anyone who suggests otherwise I'd be less encouraged

 

 

 

[McCrae]

18 hours ago, Pants Shaton said:

 

Can only assume you work at Riccarton with the coaching and medical staff and have orthopaedic or sports medicine expertise.  Otherwise, I’d be included to ignore this. 

 

 

 

Thats a pretty ignorant comment to make.  A person with a very basic understanding of Sports Science is taught and made aware that the training 

and diet regime are closely related to performance and prevention of injury. Reduced glycogen levels is a prime example where injury is more likely to occur as a  result of not enough recovery time and/or a poor diet.