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Jammy T

5 year plan

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Jammy T

So, if - BIG IF - we win the final, we will have won the Scottish cup within the 5 year turnaround  plan much derided on here.

 

Just around 5 years since we almost went all Sevco.

 

Thoughts?

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Jambof3tornado

What happens after the 5 year plan??

Do we simply fall off the end of the earth?

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kila

5 year plan was getting Hearts ‘back’ and competing for cups, title and Europe.

 

It’s a rollercoaster ride but I suppose we’re in a cup final in year 5!

 

 

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davemclaren
2 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

What happens after the 5 year plan??

Do we simply fall off the end of the earth?

It’s a rolling five year plan.  😎

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Olly Lee's left boot

If we win the sc it will be a tangible sign of progress on the park. 

 

The new stand signals our improvement off it. 

A sc would signal improvement on it. 

 

Both massive achievements after almost being liquidated. 

 

Clear, visible, tangible signs of success and more importantly foundation for further success. 

 

Would be Quite magnificent tbh. 

Edited by Olly Lee's left boot

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Bozi

This time five years ago we were close to going out of business.

5 years on and we have skooshed the championship, with Hibs and TheRangers in it, played in Europe, rebuilt the main stand and reached the cup final.

 

Winning the cup (against the odds) would complete an incredible turnaround for the club

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gorgieheart
Just now, Bozi said:

This time five years ago we were close to going out of business.

5 years on and we have skooshed the championship, with Hibs and TheRangers in it, played in Europe, rebuilt the main stand and reached the cup final.

 

Winning the cup (against the odds) would complete an incredible turnaround for the club

 

Whoa...just Whoa !

 

That is way too positive and sensible for the growing band of mouth foamers on here !!

 

But to balance it, CL last seen running away from Notre Dame Cathedral with a box o matches , giggling as he went !

 

😉

Edited by gorgieheart
spelling

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Bauld

The 5 year plan didn't mention any specific goals.

 

It was centred around growing the club. 

 

After 5 years the club has a bigger income. Bigger stadium. Maintained a solid level of FOH pledges. Strong youth academy. Strong squad of players and is making it to cup finals.

 

There is work to be done but if the 5 year plan is to be looked back on it has been a success.

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Deevers

The progress has been remarkable. If we were to lift the cup it would be sensational. 

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Selkirkhmfc1874

Progress off the park has been remarkable in such short period of time ! New stand , wheatfield undercroft finally completed, museum , memorial garden , new pitch and gorgie suite re fitted and academy rebuilt from scratch! On the park things have been up and down and there's no doubt the cathro experience stalled our progress quite a bit 

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Jambos_1874
14 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

What happens after the 5 year plan??

Do we simply fall off the end of the earth?

 

As the earth is flat, that is a distinct possibility.

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pettigrewsstylist
7 minutes ago, Bozi said:

This time five years ago we were close to going out of business.

5 years on and we have skooshed the championship, with Hibs and TheRangers in it, played in Europe, rebuilt the main stand and reached the cup final.

 

Winning the cup (against the odds) would complete an incredible turnaround for the club

Where im at for sure. That said we have stood still this season performance wise, other than cup run. Need to progress into genuine top 4 challengers next yr. 

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Koolkeith

It's easy to forget how much we've achieved since almost going bust 5 years ago.  Cathro experiment and Hibs resurgence after winning the cup have taken the focus of that a bit.  I guess from the playing side it could have been better, but we're in a decent position with a chance to win a cup.

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Bauld
Just now, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Progress off the park has been remarkable in such short period of time ! New stand , wheatfield undercroft finally completed, museum , memorial garden , new pitch and gorgie suite re fitted and academy rebuilt from scratch! On the park things have been up and down and there's no doubt the cathro experience stalled our progress quite a bit 

 

People need to remember though that football is always up and down. All clubs have seasons or even 2-3 seasons where it takes time to rebuild or find the level they were at previously having perhaps lost some important players or changing manager.

 

We aren't in a position to buy our way out of these problems like some clubs are. So we have to take the long road of building through development and aiming high on players who might be above our level but have had injury problems etc and hope they can kickstart their careers again with us.

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Selkirkhmfc1874
2 minutes ago, Bauld said:

 

People need to remember though that football is always up and down. All clubs have seasons or even 2-3 seasons where it takes time to rebuild or find the level they were at previously having perhaps lost some important players or changing manager.

 

We aren't in a position to buy our way out of these problems like some clubs are. So we have to take the long road of building through development and aiming high on players who might be above our level but have had injury problems etc and hope they can kickstart their careers again with us.

Totally agree but the cathro experiment certainly put us back quite a bit ! Remember we were way ahead of rangers in championship but its unrealistic to expect us to compete with them because of there finances but we were 2 seasons ahead of the mob along the city 

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Section Q
28 minutes ago, kila said:

5 year plan was getting Hearts ‘back’ and competing for cups, title and Europe.

 

It’s a rollercoaster ride but I suppose we’re in a cup final in year 5!

 

 

I think the new stand is our biggest achievement after saving the club. It's permanent and paid for...!

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I.T.K

Regardless what happens I'm delighted that we will be there and I'm positive about the next 5 years. 

 

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Bozi
33 minutes ago, gorgieheart said:

 

Whoa...just Whoa !

 

That is way too positive and sensible for the growing band of mouth foamers on here !!

 

But to balance it, CL last seen running away from Notre Dame Cathedral with a box o matches , giggling as he went !

 

😉

Whoah... Just a second...are you suggesting that Craig Levein made an attacking play? Nope, not allowed 

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Bozi
31 minutes ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

Where im at for sure. That said we have stood still this season performance wise, other than cup run. Need to progress into genuine top 4 challengers next yr. 

Absolutely, 5 years ago today we waited with baited breath to see if we would have a club to support. In the intervening years we have made such great progress that such setbacks seem magnified. 

 

This season has been a massive disappointment, moreso because of the whirlwind start and early season promise. Regardless of whether we win the cup or not we need to evolve the team into a more attacking unit, quicker, more cohesive and less relient on one player. 

 

Let's keep it in perspective though lads

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Mr Elwood P

If we manage to lift the Scottish Cup we will have won two major trophies since Rangers last won a a major trophy back in 2011. We will also have stopped Celtic from going 70 games unbeaten and stopped the treble treble. The Huns will be delighted and fuming simultaneously, quite a sight to behold. 

 

Wee ‘stars are aligned’ type stat: Steven Naismith last won the Scottish Cup in 2009 ... 

Edited by Mr Elwood P

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Mikey1874

Overall what is on the park after 5 years is disappointing. 

 

People talk about a 5 year plan none of us has seen. 

 

What I do know is Ann, Craig and others wanted to be challenging for the league by now. 

 

Part of the difficulty has been in the finances with the new stand not part of the original plans. You can see that in the squad which is relying on a lot of inexperienced players. Clare, Uche, Mulraney, Morrison then Wighton, Burns, Brandon etc. And then guys like MacLean, Lee, Bozanic. 

 

And it's really hard to build a squad something people on here often don't get. 

 

So we are in a good place. Next 5 years could be tremendous. 

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Mikey1874
16 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

If we manage to lift the Scottish Cup we will have won two major trophies since Rangers last won a a major trophy back in 2011. We will also have stopped Celtic from going 70 games unbeaten and stopped the treble treble. The Huns will be delighted and fuming simultaneously, quite a sight to behold. 

 

Wee ‘stars are aligned’ type stat: Steven Naismith last won the Scottish Cup in 2009 ... 

 

Good attitude 

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Mikey1874
41 minutes ago, I.T.K said:

Regardless what happens I'm delighted that we will be there and I'm positive about the next 5 years. 

 

 

Well said 

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Bauld
57 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Totally agree but the cathro experiment certainly put us back quite a bit ! Remember we were way ahead of rangers in championship but its unrealistic to expect us to compete with them because of there finances but we were 2 seasons ahead of the mob along the city 

 

But when Cathro was appointed most of us thought it was a good move. Yes he was young but he has coached at some huge clubs and continues to do so. Clearly he is a very good coach but doesn't have it as a manager.

 

Rangers may have been behind us but when they got promoted they were able to go straight into the market and spend upwards of 10 million on players like Arfield. So while we were ahead, as I said above, they were able to go out and buy their way out of trouble.

 

Hibs have been working hard to put their house in order. They are still a bit behind us but they already had the stadium capacity and should be the ones pushing us for 3rd spot with Aberdeen. Financially speaking they should be able to match us but their fan financing scheme isn't even close.

Edited by Bauld

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DG_HMFC

I think we have more than exceeded expectations since we exited admin. 

 

Yes, performances haven't been good but if you take a step back and look at what we have done as a club/business since nearly going into liquidation, really is marvelous.

 

We all want to be challenging at the top end of the table, and that will come, but we need to be realistic and realise that Rome wasn't built in a day. 

 

We now have one of the best Stadiums and surfaces in the country. Our youth academy will soon be the envy of every club in the country. Our loyal fan base donates extraordinary amounts of money to the club every month. 

 

We have a very bright future ahead of us and I get the feeling that the future generations of Hearts fans are going to be spoilt.

 

Onwards and upwards.

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Selkirkhmfc1874
6 minutes ago, Bauld said:

 

But when Cathro was appointed most of us thought it was a good move. Yes he was young but he has coached at some huge clubs and continues to do so. Clearly he is a very good coach but doesn't have it as a manager.

 

Rangers may have been behind us but when they got promoted they were able to go straight into the market and spend upwards of 10 million on players like Arfield. So while we were ahead, as I said above, they were able to go out and buy their way out of trouble.

 

Hibs have been working hard to put their house in order. They are still a bit behind us but they already had the stadium capacity and should be the ones pushing us for 3rd spot with Aberdeen. Financially speaking they should be able to match us but their fan financing scheme isn't even close.

Already said unrealistic to expect us to compete with rangers but there's no excuse for us not being way ahead of the mob across the city considering we were 2 years ahead of them when we came up and it all goes back to the cathro disaster aswell as spending money on complete duds 

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JamboAl

If anyone, in any walk of life, makes a plan it is an aim for the future NOT a prophecy nor a cast iron guarantee for success.

 

In competitive sports, success is not only affected by what you do but also what your rivals do.  As an example, if we planned to spend £50m on new players we would probably be much higher in the league etc next season, as things stand, BUT if other clubs were able to spend £70m that creates a different dynamic.  Even if other clubs don't spend higher amounts it does not stop your best players getting serious, longish term injuries - as happened this season.

 

If you were able to wind back 5 years when we were up sh*t creek and look forward 5 years, you will be extremely happy with where we are now.  The Cathro period did set us back but overall I'd say the plan has been a success.  Unfortunately, we still have/had contractual obligations to fulfill with players he signed and that to some extent has held us back.

 

One last point is AB's refusal to go wild with money and buy players funded with debt as some of our rivals have done during these last 5 years.  Ours is the right way to go unless we want to end up again with Save our Hearts, which, fantastic as it was, is not something we ideally want.

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It should have been ten
1 hour ago, Bozi said:

This time five years ago we were close to going out of business.

5 years on and we have skooshed the championship, with Hibs and TheRangers in it, played in Europe, rebuilt the main stand and reached the cup final.

 

Winning the cup (against the odds) would complete an incredible turnaround for the club

 

:spoton:

 

 

1 hour ago, gorgieheart said:

 

Whoa...just Whoa !

 

That is way too positive and sensible for the growing band of mouth foamers on here !!

 

But to balance it, CL last seen running away from Notre Dame Cathedral with a box o matches , giggling as he went !

 

😉

 

:lol:👏🏼

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Finlay James

Five years ago, if you told me we'd scoosh the championship, be back in Europe, completed the stadium and pitch, found an amazing sponsor in Save the Children, rebuilt the youth academy and be back in cup finals - Id have bitten your hand off.

 

The foundations are in place, the Jambos are back and we're going miles ahead of where we have ever been in the past.

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Jodami

5 year plans are for dictators and the measures of success are recalibrated to suit! 

Seriously though 5 year plans are in my opinion unwise and usually only create a stick to beat yourself with. Off the park I think we are in a really good place, on the park there is room for improvement. I don't think I have ever felt so positively about the club's future in my lifetime. I've said that I would like to see some changes on the footballing side in other threads but if you step back and view where the club is in general there is a lot to be happy about. 

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JamboAl
23 minutes ago, Finlay James said:

Five years ago, if you told me we'd scoosh the championship, be back in Europe, completed the stadium and pitch, found an amazing sponsor in Save the Children, rebuilt the youth academy and be back in cup finals - Id have bitten your hand off.

 

The foundations are in place, the Jambos are back and we're going miles ahead of where we have ever been in the past.

Exactly.

We may not have achieved total success but we have certainly taken big strides forward.  Next season may be even better.  Firstly the law of averages says we should have fewer serious injuries to key players so allowing more continuity on the pitch and we could lose a few salaries of players lower down the pecking order.  Add to that cup final and semi-final money as a bonus giving a bit more financial clout in attracting new players.  We may also see the return of youngsters from loan, some of whom will be older and wiser like Burns and Keena who both featured in the semi. 

I think we'll have more and better options than we've had for some time.

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kimosavi
6 hours ago, gorgieheart said:

 

Whoa...just Whoa !

 

That is way too positive and sensible for the growing band of mouth foamers on here !!

 

But to balance it, CL last seen running away from Notre Dame Cathedral with a box o matches , giggling as he went !

 

😉

 I was there 

 

Levein only lit the match

 

Then handed it to Berra then he Launched it long 

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Kiwidoug

I massively agree with the sentiment that we are now better off than we have ever been.  Its everything from the incredible infrastructure., the living wage, Save the Children, the ST sales and the FoH.

 

Its mind boggling considering where we started.  I also agree with the poster who says the next 5 years could be terrific.

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1971fozzy
9 hours ago, Jambof3tornado said:

What happens after the 5 year plan??

Do we simply fall off the end of the earth?

 

:4_1_72:

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Cruickshank for Scotland
12 hours ago, Deevers said:

The progress has been remarkable. If we were to lift the cup it would be sensational. 

 

If we beat Celtic and win the cup it will be a sign of huge progress on the pitch -  if we lose it will be a sign we got a fantastic draw out of the hat in every round.

Huge progress has been made off the pitch.

Edited by Cruickshank for Scotland

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JamboGraham

Aside from a few headlines issued by the club back in May 2014 has anyone actually seen anything specific that is/was in the five year plan?

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ToqueJambo
12 hours ago, Jammy T said:

So, if - BIG IF - we win the final, we will have won the Scottish cup within the 5 year turnaround  plan much derided on here.

 

Just around 5 years since we almost went all Sevco.

 

Thoughts?

 

If we'd done 2nd (Championship), 1st (Champ), 6th (Prem), 5th (Prem), 3rd (Prem) - the original predictions and what we budgeted for - in the last 5 years everyone would have lauded the progress being made.

 

Neilson (and Levein and co) did so well so quickly to get us promoted and into Europe ahead of schedule that it raised expectations - unrealistically high in some fans IMO as we were never going to finish 2nd after finishing 3rd and even another 3rd would have been a great achievement (and we were realistically on target for it before Neilson left). 

 

If we finish 5th/6th this season, meaning we've been 5th/6th 3 seasons in a row, rightly questions should be asked about the manager for the last two of those. A cup win though would definitely make it a very good 5 years over all considering where we were then. Cathro and the injuries this season mean that anyone who is capable of looking a the bigger picture, which probably includes Budge and the board, will take that into account when assessing Levein's time in charge.

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ToqueJambo
15 minutes ago, JamboGraham said:

Aside from a few headlines issued by the club back in May 2014 has anyone actually seen anything specific that is/was in the five year plan?

 

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/ann-budge-statement

 

It was really just the timespan before the fan ownership handover. I do also remember Levein and Budge talking about being up challenging for honours and the top end of the league by the end of those 5 years. Can't find the quotes though.

 

It was very clear that the core of the plan is living sustainably and planning for the future. This has obviously influenced the recruitment strategy and explains why we go for the likes of Clare and Wighton instead of signing another expensive 30 year old.

 

To be fair we've also done things like build a new stand and pitch which weren't;t in the original plan, and appear to have constantly upped the playing budget - probably ahead of the original plan - to sign the likes of Lafferty, Berra and Naismith.

 

 

The statement....

 

New owner outlines her vision for the future as big changes are announced at Tynecastle.

Ann Budge today released the following statement as she outlines her vision for the future as the new owner of Heart of Midlothian FC.

It was clear from my earliest visits to Tynecastle and my earliest meetings with senior staff that the company, Heart of Midlothian plc, was, in every sense of the word, "broken".

There was no overarching strategy for how the business should be run. For far too long, there had been no clear leadership. This coupled with the sole focus on day to day survival had left the club in a sorry and perilous financial state. This led to a fundamental disconnect between the various departments and a mountain of issues to be resolved. Add to this, the under-investment in various parts of the business and the current financial position, and we have a "broken" Hearts. We must all realise that there is no quick fix for these problems.

One thing is very clear. We have come far too close to losing our very existence and we must never allow this to happen again. We must grasp this opportunity to start afresh; to put in place solid foundations that will ensure we never again risk our 140 years of history.

We must make changes. We must stop thinking short-term. We must put in place a 3-5-year plan that will see our commercial activities totally re-vamped, such that they once again provide a solid financial under-pinning to our football club; and we must also completely revitalise and re-focus the football side of our club. We have some excellent young players, who have done us proud in the last season. We owe it to them to create an environment that will help them to continue to flourish and develop. This will take time, patience and the continued loyal support of Hearts' dedicated fan base. We will implement strategies to grow and strengthen the club. We will live within in our means to ensure that the future of the club is never again put in jeopardy.

We must ensure we have a clear footballing strategy that drives every aspect of our game; everything from who we recruit into our club, from youth academy through to first team players; how we approach coaching, at all age groups and all levels; how we undertake training? and indeed, what kind of football we play at Hearts.

There must be a totally cohesive plan that ties all aspects of our club together. Everyone must be pulling in the same direction.

Next season cannot simply be about getting back up into the SPFL. Of course, we will be striving for that, but we must take a longer-term view and build for the future. One of the key objectives of the new Board is to put in place a Coaching Education Programme that is second to none in Scottish football. Only by doing so, can we realistically attain the continual year-on-year improvement we are striving for and that will add to the value of the players and the club alike, and help to secure our future.

This means change on a fairly major scale. Not everyone will agree with all the changes being put in place, but we must address the issues at hand with our heads and not our hearts. We have made these tough decisions after much deliberation and much discussion. All we ask is that you give the new management team time and we will show we can deliver.

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ToqueJambo
7 hours ago, Jodami said:

5 year plans are for dictators and the measures of success are recalibrated to suit! 

Seriously though 5 year plans are in my opinion unwise and usually only create a stick to beat yourself with. Off the park I think we are in a really good place, on the park there is room for improvement. I don't think I have ever felt so positively about the club's future in my lifetime. I've said that I would like to see some changes on the footballing side in other threads but if you step back and view where the club is in general there is a lot to be happy about. 

 

Personally I wish Romanov had had a 5 year plan instead of waking up every morning, putting his underpants on his head, sticking two pencils up his nostrils and thinking about what random chaos he could cause that day.

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JamboAl
1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/ann-budge-statement

 

It was really just the timespan before the fan ownership handover. I do also remember Levein and Budge talking about being up challenging for honours and the top end of the league by the end of those 5 years. Can't find the quotes though.

 

It was very clear that the core of the plan is living sustainably and planning for the future. This has obviously influenced the recruitment strategy and explains why we go for the likes of Clare and Wighton instead of signing another expensive 30 year old.

 

To be fair we've also done things like build a new stand and pitch which weren't;t in the original plan, and appear to have constantly upped the playing budget - probably ahead of the original plan - to sign the likes of Lafferty, Berra and Naismith.

 

 

The statement....

 

New owner outlines her vision for the future as big changes are announced at Tynecastle.

Ann Budge today released the following statement as she outlines her vision for the future as the new owner of Heart of Midlothian FC.

It was clear from my earliest visits to Tynecastle and my earliest meetings with senior staff that the company, Heart of Midlothian plc, was, in every sense of the word, "broken".

There was no overarching strategy for how the business should be run. For far too long, there had been no clear leadership. This coupled with the sole focus on day to day survival had left the club in a sorry and perilous financial state. This led to a fundamental disconnect between the various departments and a mountain of issues to be resolved. Add to this, the under-investment in various parts of the business and the current financial position, and we have a "broken" Hearts. We must all realise that there is no quick fix for these problems.

One thing is very clear. We have come far too close to losing our very existence and we must never allow this to happen again. We must grasp this opportunity to start afresh; to put in place solid foundations that will ensure we never again risk our 140 years of history.

We must make changes. We must stop thinking short-term. We must put in place a 3-5-year plan that will see our commercial activities totally re-vamped, such that they once again provide a solid financial under-pinning to our football club; and we must also completely revitalise and re-focus the football side of our club. We have some excellent young players, who have done us proud in the last season. We owe it to them to create an environment that will help them to continue to flourish and develop. This will take time, patience and the continued loyal support of Hearts' dedicated fan base. We will implement strategies to grow and strengthen the club. We will live within in our means to ensure that the future of the club is never again put in jeopardy.

We must ensure we have a clear footballing strategy that drives every aspect of our game; everything from who we recruit into our club, from youth academy through to first team players; how we approach coaching, at all age groups and all levels; how we undertake training? and indeed, what kind of football we play at Hearts.

There must be a totally cohesive plan that ties all aspects of our club together. Everyone must be pulling in the same direction.

Next season cannot simply be about getting back up into the SPFL. Of course, we will be striving for that, but we must take a longer-term view and build for the future. One of the key objectives of the new Board is to put in place a Coaching Education Programme that is second to none in Scottish football. Only by doing so, can we realistically attain the continual year-on-year improvement we are striving for and that will add to the value of the players and the club alike, and help to secure our future.

This means change on a fairly major scale. Not everyone will agree with all the changes being put in place, but we must address the issues at hand with our heads and not our hearts. We have made these tough decisions after much deliberation and much discussion. All we ask is that you give the new management team time and we will show we can deliver.

10

It seems from that statement that there are 2 separate issues.

The part highlighted in blue is part of a 3 to 5 year plan and relates to commercial activities, then it goes on

AND

we must also completely completely revitalise and re-focus the football side  - which doesn't mention a time scale.

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cookieboy
2 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Personally I wish Romanov had had a 5 year plan instead of waking up every morning, putting his underpants on his head, sticking two pencils up his nostrils and thinking about what random chaos he could cause that day.

and giving us some fantastic memories

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Jammy T
7 minutes ago, cookieboy said:

and giving us some fantastic memories

 2?

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ToqueJambo
14 minutes ago, cookieboy said:

and giving us some fantastic memories

 

Imagine how many more though if he'd thought more carefully about how to spend the 50 or 60m or whatever he put into the team during his reign? 

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cookieboy
8 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

 2?

which 2 ?

 

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cookieboy
1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Imagine how many more though if he'd thought more carefully about how to spend the 50 or 60m or whatever he put into the team during his reign? 

definitely

 

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King Joffrey

I know criticism of Budge is contentious given she saved the club. But this can't continualy be used to deflect or excuse everything thereafter. I think there's actually a lot to be critical of. Constructively (hopefully) rather than cheap shots, but critical nonetheless. And a lot of fans seem to me anyway unwilling to confront these issues due to their regard for Budge. Similarly I'm not sure how challenging the FoH is of Budge either. 

 

Anyway. To firstly cover off any cup success, while welcome, it needs to be put in perspective. We've had Livingston at home, Auchinleck at home, struggled past Partick (eventually at home) then made 45 mins hard work of Inverness at Hampden. I'd expect to be in this final even under Cathro, Graham Rix or Tommy McLean. So Levein siting it as proof of progress feels almost open to ridicule. Most Hearts fans would acknowledge that even one of St Johnstone or Motherwell or Dundee away,  and we'd likely be out before now on the performances we've witnessed on this run. So reaching the final does not support any progress, although it does have to be said winning it v Celtic in a final would see me eat humble pie. But so far, limited plaudits or proof of anything. 

 

As for the plan. I actually thought she'd publicly said she'd ripped it up?Genuinely. But if it were a review of progress....

 

The Stand. 

£11m with £1m contingency is now at £18m+, and still not finished. And under spec. I'll avoid a lot of subjective opinion on what we've got for this investment, but will just say, to spend that and STILL our top tier corporate is in the Gorgie Stand, is poor in the extreme. It is subjective, but I do feel pretty underwhelmed for nearly £20m on a single stand with limited corporate appeal. 

 

Managerial Appts

Cathro. The reliance on Levein and the DoF position onto the Exec Board. The talk of promoting up from within. None of it has filled me with confidence. Again we all have views. But I'd rather do away with the DoF position as it makes the manager role less attractive, and instead we should focus on attracting the best manager we can and supporting his vision. I hate to admit agreeing with Billy Davies. But this doesn't work for me and can't see any external manager of note signing up for this. Jon Daly would. 

Some credit however for Robbie who I think did better than most anticipated. 

 

Recruitment

Are we now at 160 players signed? More? There have been some decent signings in there but it feels like a numbers game. Sign 10, maybe 4 will be OK. This level of turnover isn't healthy and is expensive. On agents. And canceling contracts. As our most recent signing, Vanecek is a good example. Levein said he has to learn Scottish football is a battle in the air. So why sign someone who doesn't do that??? 

 

Player Sales

Historically we've been used to selling a Naysmith, Berra, Cameron, McCann, Gordon, etc and bringing in funds. Sow was our last major sale. We've seen Paterson, Walker, Nicholson, Holt, McGhee all leave and for very limited amounts. To be fair an argument could be made that with Souttar we're keeping him, which is better. But I do think the plan is a steady stream of major sales, like Ajax on a less grand scale, replaced by youth. And the sales aren't there as there is limited interest in our players. I take £1m bids for Uche with a raised eyebrow. 

 

Youth System

I'll admit I don't watch academy or youth games so happy to be corrected. But in the first team squad there's very limited signs of success. Morrison and Keena have played bit parts. But when our full squad is fit, what home produced player would even make the bench? I think we'd be one of the few clubs in the league where that'd be the case. Mulraney and Burns looked good in the Semi. But why have we no academy winger or full back pushing into the team at these ages when Budge positively glows about our conveyor belt? Instead we need to bring in talent from elsewhere. 

 

Attendances

Very limited true full houses since returning to Tynecastle and while Murrayfield skews the figures, we're down nearly 1k a game on last year and under Hibs now on home averages. Which is hugely disappointing. This concerns me given the extra revenue streams that were talked about on the new stand opening. I'll also be interested in ST progress for the new season. We seem to have peaked and are now potentially falling. ST price increases won't help.

 

Playing Style 

I actually wonder if this is related to attendances. Despite stats saying otherwise we are poor to watch. Long ball. Often 3 centre halves at home to lesser opposition. One up front. Direct. No pace, width or creativity. Old style football. No plan B. Our style actually seems to taking some players backwards. Like Lee. 

 

Finances

Hard to measure true operational profit when we have a silent investor and fans are contributing nearly £2m a year. Again, it will be interesting to see if this suffers from any tail off. I massively applaud all those contributing. Well done. But lack of progress on the pitch will challenge this in time. I'm not sure I see any real major sponsorship or corporate deals or extra income streams. Not sure it fits under Finance but will add our customer service via phone or online is shoddy at best. 

 

Fans and PR

Some will love her hard moral stance with open communications through a multitude of statements. Some don't. What I will comment on though is in our promotion year the unity of fans was unbelievable. Really something to witness and experience. A real togetherness. We now seem quite fractured as a fan base and infighting seems common. Something has been lost the last few years. 

 

Results

2014-15. Champions. Promoted. Out both cups to Celtic. No shame. Pass. 

2015-16. 3rd in a league with no Rangers or Hibs. Qualify for Europe. Out League Cup to Celtic. Out Scottish Cup from a home draw with Hibs. That loss defined the season for many. 50/50. 

2016-17. 5th in league. 12 points behind St Johnstone, 4 points above Partick. Out of Europe to a team from Malta. Out of the League Cup to St Johnstone. Out the Scottish Cup to Hibs (again) from a home draw. Fail. 

2017-18. 6th in league making top 6 by 1 point. League Cup don't get out a prelimary league group with Dunfermline, Peterhead, East Fife and Elgin. Out Scottish Cup to Motherwell. Fail. 

2018-19. Looking like 6th in league. Out League Cup to Celtic. Season depends on Scottish Cup Final. TBC. 

 

I've already went on probably too long for many. But I can't help but feel taking all into account I feel progress has been limited and the club would benefit from a new CEO, manager, recruitment approach, youth and backroom staff. I think the Budge era is coming to a natural conclusion but there doesn't have to be any sense of firing. Instead gratitude. But I think many would like to now see wholesale changes sooner rather than later. And in answer to the thread I think any progress against a 5 year plan is limited. The stand, team, results and all else above are the least I'd expect from any of us in that role regardless of experience, I'm sorry to say. 

 

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JamboAl
15 minutes ago, King Joffrey said:

I know criticism of Budge is contentious given she saved the club. But this can't continualy be used to deflect or excuse everything thereafter. I think there's actually a lot to be critical of. Constructively (hopefully) rather than cheap shots, but critical nonetheless. And a lot of fans seem to me anyway unwilling to confront these issues due to their regard for Budge. Similarly I'm not sure how challenging the FoH is of Budge either. 

 

Anyway. To firstly cover off any cup success, while welcome, it needs to be put in perspective. We've had Livingston at home, Auchinleck at home, struggled past Partick (eventually at home) then made 45 mins hard work of Inverness at Hampden. I'd expect to be in this final even under Cathro, Graham Rix or Tommy McLean. So Levein siting it as proof of progress feels almost open to ridicule. Most Hearts fans would acknowledge that even one of St Johnstone or Motherwell or Dundee away,  and we'd likely be out before now on the performances we've witnessed on this run. So reaching the final does not support any progress, although it does have to be said winning it v Celtic in a final would see me eat humble pie. But so far, limited plaudits or proof of anything. 

 

As for the plan. I actually thought she'd publicly said she'd ripped it up?Genuinely. But if it were a review of progress....

 

The Stand. 

£11m with £1m contingency is now at £18m+, and still not finished. And under spec. I'll avoid a lot of subjective opinion on what we've got for this investment, but will just say, to spend that and STILL our top tier corporate is in the Gorgie Stand, is poor in the extreme. It is subjective, but I do feel pretty underwhelmed for nearly £20m on a single stand with limited corporate appeal. 

 

Managerial Appts

Cathro. The reliance on Levein and the DoF position onto the Exec Board. The talk of promoting up from within. None of it has filled me with confidence. Again we all have views. But I'd rather do away with the DoF position as it makes the manager role less attractive, and instead we should focus on attracting the best manager we can and supporting his vision. I hate to admit agreeing with Billy Davies. But this doesn't work for me and can't see any external manager of note signing up for this. Jon Daly would. 

Some credit however for Robbie who I think did better than most anticipated. 

 

Recruitment

Are we now at 160 players signed? More? There have been some decent signings in there but it feels like a numbers game. Sign 10, maybe 4 will be OK. This level of turnover isn't healthy and is expensive. On agents. And canceling contracts. As our most recent signing, Vanecek is a good example. Levein said he has to learn Scottish football is a battle in the air. So why sign someone who doesn't do that??? 

 

Player Sales

Historically we've been used to selling a Naysmith, Berra, Cameron, McCann, Gordon, etc and bringing in funds. Sow was our last major sale. We've seen Paterson, Walker, Nicholson, Holt, McGhee all leave and for very limited amounts. To be fair an argument could be made that with Souttar we're keeping him, which is better. But I do think the plan is a steady stream of major sales, like Ajax on a less grand scale, replaced by youth. And the sales aren't there as there is limited interest in our players. I take £1m bids for Uche with a raised eyebrow. 

 

Youth System

I'll admit I don't watch academy or youth games so happy to be corrected. But in the first team squad there's very limited signs of success. Morrison and Keena have played bit parts. But when our full squad is fit, what home produced player would even make the bench? I think we'd be one of the few clubs in the league where that'd be the case. Mulraney and Burns looked good in the Semi. But why have we no academy winger or full back pushing into the team at these ages when Budge positively glows about our conveyor belt? Instead we need to bring in talent from elsewhere. 

 

Attendances

Very limited true full houses since returning to Tynecastle and while Murrayfield skews the figures, we're down nearly 1k a game on last year and under Hibs now on home averages. Which is hugely disappointing. This concerns me given the extra revenue streams that were talked about on the new stand opening. I'll also be interested in ST progress for the new season. We seem to have peaked and are now potentially falling. ST price increases won't help.

 

Playing Style 

I actually wonder if this is related to attendances. Despite stats saying otherwise we are poor to watch. Long ball. Often 3 centre halves at home to lesser opposition. One up front. Direct. No pace, width or creativity. Old style football. No plan B. Our style actually seems to taking some players backwards. Like Lee. 

 

Finances

Hard to measure true operational profit when we have a silent investor and fans are contributing nearly £2m a year. Again, it will be interesting to see if this suffers from any tail off. I massively applaud all those contributing. Well done. But lack of progress on the pitch will challenge this in time. I'm not sure I see any real major sponsorship or corporate deals or extra income streams. Not sure it fits under Finance but will add our customer service via phone or online is shoddy at best. 

 

Fans and PR

Some will love her hard moral stance with open communications through a multitude of statements. Some don't. What I will comment on though is in our promotion year the unity of fans was unbelievable. Really something to witness and experience. A real togetherness. We now seem quite fractured as a fan base and infighting seems common. Something has been lost the last few years. 

 

Results

2014-15. Champions. Promoted. Out both cups to Celtic. No shame. Pass. 

2015-16. 3rd in a league with no Rangers or Hibs. Qualify for Europe. Out League Cup to Celtic. Out Scottish Cup from a home draw with Hibs. That loss defined the season for many. 50/50. 

2016-17. 5th in league. 12 points behind St Johnstone, 4 points above Partick. Out of Europe to a team from Malta. Out of the League Cup to St Johnstone. Out the Scottish Cup to Hibs (again) from a home draw. Fail. 

2017-18. 6th in league making top 6 by 1 point. League Cup don't get out a prelimary league group with Dunfermline, Peterhead, East Fife and Elgin. Out Scottish Cup to Motherwell. Fail. 

2018-19. Looking like 6th in league. Out League Cup to Celtic. Season depends on Scottish Cup Final. TBC. 

 

I've already went on probably too long for many. But I can't help but feel taking all into account I feel progress has been limited and the club would benefit from a new CEO, manager, recruitment approach, youth and backroom staff. I think the Budge era is coming to a natural conclusion but there doesn't have to be any sense of firing. Instead gratitude. But I think many would like to now see wholesale changes sooner rather than later. And in answer to the thread I think any progress against a 5 year plan is limited. The stand, team, results and all else above are the least I'd expect from any of us in that role regardless of experience, I'm sorry to say. 

 

27

If you look back a few posts, I came to the conclusion that the 5year plan related to commercial activities/finance.  If you agree with this most of your post is rendered futile. If you don't agree, show us why.

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NANOJAMBO
16 hours ago, davemclaren said:

It’s a rolling five year plan.  😎

Why don't people understand this. 

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Olly Lee's left boot
21 minutes ago, King Joffrey said:

I know criticism of Budge is contentious given she saved the club. But this can't continualy be used to deflect or excuse everything thereafter. I think there's actually a lot to be critical of. Constructively (hopefully) rather than cheap shots, but critical nonetheless. And a lot of fans seem to me anyway unwilling to confront these issues due to their regard for Budge. Similarly I'm not sure how challenging the FoH is of Budge either. 

 

Anyway. To firstly cover off any cup success, while welcome, it needs to be put in perspective. We've had Livingston at home, Auchinleck at home, struggled past Partick (eventually at home) then made 45 mins hard work of Inverness at Hampden. I'd expect to be in this final even under Cathro, Graham Rix or Tommy McLean. So Levein siting it as proof of progress feels almost open to ridicule. Most Hearts fans would acknowledge that even one of St Johnstone or Motherwell or Dundee away,  and we'd likely be out before now on the performances we've witnessed on this run. So reaching the final does not support any progress, although it does have to be said winning it v Celtic in a final would see me eat humble pie. But so far, limited plaudits or proof of anything. 

 

As for the plan. I actually thought she'd publicly said she'd ripped it up?Genuinely. But if it were a review of progress....

 

The Stand. 

£11m with £1m contingency is now at £18m+, and still not finished. And under spec. I'll avoid a lot of subjective opinion on what we've got for this investment, but will just say, to spend that and STILL our top tier corporate is in the Gorgie Stand, is poor in the extreme. It is subjective, but I do feel pretty underwhelmed for nearly £20m on a single stand with limited corporate appeal. 

 

Managerial Appts

Cathro. The reliance on Levein and the DoF position onto the Exec Board. The talk of promoting up from within. None of it has filled me with confidence. Again we all have views. But I'd rather do away with the DoF position as it makes the manager role less attractive, and instead we should focus on attracting the best manager we can and supporting his vision. I hate to admit agreeing with Billy Davies. But this doesn't work for me and can't see any external manager of note signing up for this. Jon Daly would. 

Some credit however for Robbie who I think did better than most anticipated. 

 

Recruitment

Are we now at 160 players signed? More? There have been some decent signings in there but it feels like a numbers game. Sign 10, maybe 4 will be OK. This level of turnover isn't healthy and is expensive. On agents. And canceling contracts. As our most recent signing, Vanecek is a good example. Levein said he has to learn Scottish football is a battle in the air. So why sign someone who doesn't do that??? 

 

Player Sales

Historically we've been used to selling a Naysmith, Berra, Cameron, McCann, Gordon, etc and bringing in funds. Sow was our last major sale. We've seen Paterson, Walker, Nicholson, Holt, McGhee all leave and for very limited amounts. To be fair an argument could be made that with Souttar we're keeping him, which is better. But I do think the plan is a steady stream of major sales, like Ajax on a less grand scale, replaced by youth. And the sales aren't there as there is limited interest in our players. I take £1m bids for Uche with a raised eyebrow. 

 

Youth System

I'll admit I don't watch academy or youth games so happy to be corrected. But in the first team squad there's very limited signs of success. Morrison and Keena have played bit parts. But when our full squad is fit, what home produced player would even make the bench? I think we'd be one of the few clubs in the league where that'd be the case. Mulraney and Burns looked good in the Semi. But why have we no academy winger or full back pushing into the team at these ages when Budge positively glows about our conveyor belt? Instead we need to bring in talent from elsewhere. 

 

Attendances

Very limited true full houses since returning to Tynecastle and while Murrayfield skews the figures, we're down nearly 1k a game on last year and under Hibs now on home averages. Which is hugely disappointing. This concerns me given the extra revenue streams that were talked about on the new stand opening. I'll also be interested in ST progress for the new season. We seem to have peaked and are now potentially falling. ST price increases won't help.

 

Playing Style 

I actually wonder if this is related to attendances. Despite stats saying otherwise we are poor to watch. Long ball. Often 3 centre halves at home to lesser opposition. One up front. Direct. No pace, width or creativity. Old style football. No plan B. Our style actually seems to taking some players backwards. Like Lee. 

 

Finances

Hard to measure true operational profit when we have a silent investor and fans are contributing nearly £2m a year. Again, it will be interesting to see if this suffers from any tail off. I massively applaud all those contributing. Well done. But lack of progress on the pitch will challenge this in time. I'm not sure I see any real major sponsorship or corporate deals or extra income streams. Not sure it fits under Finance but will add our customer service via phone or online is shoddy at best. 

 

Fans and PR

Some will love her hard moral stance with open communications through a multitude of statements. Some don't. What I will comment on though is in our promotion year the unity of fans was unbelievable. Really something to witness and experience. A real togetherness. We now seem quite fractured as a fan base and infighting seems common. Something has been lost the last few years. 

 

Results

2014-15. Champions. Promoted. Out both cups to Celtic. No shame. Pass. 

2015-16. 3rd in a league with no Rangers or Hibs. Qualify for Europe. Out League Cup to Celtic. Out Scottish Cup from a home draw with Hibs. That loss defined the season for many. 50/50. 

2016-17. 5th in league. 12 points behind St Johnstone, 4 points above Partick. Out of Europe to a team from Malta. Out of the League Cup to St Johnstone. Out the Scottish Cup to Hibs (again) from a home draw. Fail. 

2017-18. 6th in league making top 6 by 1 point. League Cup don't get out a prelimary league group with Dunfermline, Peterhead, East Fife and Elgin. Out Scottish Cup to Motherwell. Fail. 

2018-19. Looking like 6th in league. Out League Cup to Celtic. Season depends on Scottish Cup Final. TBC. 

 

I've already went on probably too long for many. But I can't help but feel taking all into account I feel progress has been limited and the club would benefit from a new CEO, manager, recruitment approach, youth and backroom staff. I think the Budge era is coming to a natural conclusion but there doesn't have to be any sense of firing. Instead gratitude. But I think many would like to now see wholesale changes sooner rather than later. And in answer to the thread I think any progress against a 5 year plan is limited. The stand, team, results and all else above are the least I'd expect from any of us in that role regardless of experience, I'm sorry to say. 

 

 

 

Youre right. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You did go on for too long. 😂

 

 

Nah, a well thought out reply but a plan is exactly that, so over analysing it is pointless. Any plan will generally be about 75 % accurate in it's implementation 

 

It's also been pointed out that Budge specifically mentioned the commercial activity. 

 

Also, if you take the starting point five years ago and compare it now, it is nothing but a overwhelming success in all areas. 

 

The question is now how do we take the football side forwards even more and is open to a debate, but after the season is concluded. 

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NANOJAMBO
26 minutes ago, King Joffrey said:

 

The Stand. 

£11m with £1m contingency is now at £18m+, and still not finished. And under spec. I'll avoid a lot of subjective opinion on what we've got for this investment, but will just say, to spend that and STILL our top tier corporate is in the Gorgie Stand, is poor in the extreme. It is subjective, but I do feel pretty underwhelmed for nearly £20m on a single stand with limited corporate appeal. .

 

The elephant in the room which will hinder the club for years to come. 

 

 

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