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Time to unite Behind Craig


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Mr Elwood P
18 minutes ago, Tasavallan said:

 

Or only 3 pts from the last 10 games of 2016/17.   Cathro's position was under scrutiny and the League Cup defeat to Peterhead and draw with Dunfermline sealed his fate.   Just looking at the 10 signings + 6 loans made by the club in Summer of 2017 has Levein's name all over them.  Signing of players come under the DoF.  Certainly the return of Berra and signing of Lafferty plus bringing in Naismith on loan had nothing to do with Cathro.  

 

Exactly. The signings from

summer 2017 onwards have largely been very good. A mixture of known quantities, solid English lower league pros, European projects and youth development options. Regardless of how much negativity can be summoned up on here we aren’t far away at all from a very good squad. Before we know it we will have the vultures picking us apart for the likes of Uche, Souttar, Haring and Clare.

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Enzo Chiefo
40 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Almost definitely if we lose the Scottish Cup final, absolute certainty if we win it. Why would we not want the only manger to get us into the Europa League group stages to have another crack at the same competition? We’ve signed up the majority of the squad on long term deals with hopefully Haring, Djoum and Naismith to follow.  A lot of the squad are 17-24 and have developed over the season. A new manager wouldn’t be able to bring in many players so I think we should let Levein continue what he’s started. Much improved Scottish Cup and League Cup runs, beaten Celtic twice and managed to get our first win at Easter Road in years. League form has been a disappointment after a sensational start but the injuries we’ve had derailed our league campaign. 

The players are not the problem,  the coaching, the tactics and the style of play are. Managers don't necessarily need to bring in their "own" players, as Stevie Clarke has so ably proved. Our much improved Cup runs are down to the draws we have had. Unfortunately,  as soon as we meet a decent side, we're out. Yes, it's great that we got our first win at ER but, likewise, Hibs had their first win at Tynie in 6 years. The progress of the youngsters seem to have stalled and there is no evidence that the like of Godinho, Brandon, Morrison, Cochrane will be able to hold down a first team place. You can handpick favourable stats, as I am also doing. Our home record is worse than last year and we are sitting behind Hibs again while we will certainly finish behind Killie again. I certainly don't want Levein to finish what he has started as there is no evidence of any kind of plan, far less improvement imo. We will have to disagree on the merits of Levein and his coaching staff, win or lose on the 25th. 

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33 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The players are not the problem the coaching, the tactics and the style of play are. Managers don't necessarily need to bring in their "own" players, as Stevie Clarke has so ably proved. Our much improved Cup runs are down to the draws we have had. Unfortunately,  as soon as we meet a decent side, we're out. Yes, it's great that we got our first win at ER but, likewise, Hibs had their first win at Tynie in 6 years. The progress of the youngsters seem to have stalled and there is no evidence that the like of Godinho, Brandon, Morrison, Cochrane will be able to hold down a first team place. You can handpick favourable stats, as I am also doing. Our home record is worse than last year and we are sitting behind Hibs again while we will certainly finish behind Killie again. I certainly don't want Levein to finish what he has started as there is no evidence of any kind of plan, far less improvement imo. We will have to disagree on the merits of Levein and his coaching staff, win or lose on the 25th. 

Ah good, at least you can acknowledge that levein's signings have been decent, that's something. 

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Enzo Chiefo
18 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Ah good, at least you can acknowledge that levein's signings have been decent, that's something. 

I think Levein has signed some good ones and some duds. Fwiw, we had the core of a good team last season too and I felt signing 19 players was ridiculous. The team has underachieved in the last 2 seasons imo and I feel that is more to do with the coaching and management side than the quality of the squads.

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2 hours ago, Jodami said:

We can afford a DoF, we had one before and we are in a better financial position now. 

Just so we are clear, I never at any time suggested consultants would advise on players. I said that we may bring in consultants to advise on a managerial appointment as the board may be lacking in football knowledge.

The sub standard players were a result of confused strategy, I would estimate that the Cathro experiment cost seven figures when you factor in the 8 players signed in the window and his pay off. Your points on Messi and Ronaldo are just the ramblings of an idiot. 

2

 

If Man U had hired consultants after Fergie left they would have advised hiring someone with a proven track record and either Louis van Gaal or Jose Mourinho would have fitted the bill.  I wonder what went wrong.

 

There are no success guarantees with managers whether hired through consultants or not which means that consultants tend to be a waste of money.

As regards my comment re Messi and Ronaldo that was made to emphasise a point ad any stupid idiot would have realised.

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17 hours ago, Jodami said:

Ultimately that will be down to Ann Budge, I think at the initial press conference when he was announced as manager she said she would decide whether Levein could go back to being DoF if it didn't work out. I do think Levein has done excellent work on the infrastructure of the footballing side at the club. It's difficult to know how successful the development of home grown young players has gone as they have broken through but not sustained themselves in the first team. I'm not sure whether some of them were perhaps blooded too young, time will tell. The more experienced players signed in the summer have not looked obviously better ability wise though. Ideas such as having the same formation at each level were laudable but he has also broken that himself. 

It's highly questionable whether he would be willing to hand on all first team responsibility to a new coach and stay as DoF but I may be wrong. 

On your point about young coaches Neilson and Ross have made no more than promising starts in their careers. As DoF Levein invested a massive amount in another young coach and it was an expensive disaster. Such a disaster that he had to go back to management to try and rectify the situation. 

 

He didn’t have to. He was asked to by Budge. Neilson and Ross made much more than promising starts in their first head coach gigs.

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17 hours ago, Jodami said:

Ultimately that will be down to Ann Budge, I think at the initial press conference when he was announced as manager she said she would decide whether Levein could go back to being DoF if it didn't work out. I do think Levein has done excellent work on the infrastructure of the footballing side at the club. It's difficult to know how successful the development of home grown young players has gone as they have broken through but not sustained themselves in the first team. I'm not sure whether some of them were perhaps blooded too young, time will tell. The more experienced players signed in the summer have not looked obviously better ability wise though. Ideas such as having the same formation at each level were laudable but he has also broken that himself. 

It's highly questionable whether he would be willing to hand on all first team responsibility to a new coach and stay as DoF but I may be wrong. 

On your point about young coaches Neilson and Ross have made no more than promising starts in their careers. As DoF Levein invested a massive amount in another young coach and it was an expensive disaster. Such a disaster that he had to go back to management to try and rectify the situation. 

 

Another point about Ross and Neilson - both spotted and developed by Levein. If Neilson had done what he did with us in his first 2.5 seasons with another club we’d have been clamouring for him to be our next manager. Same with Ross. In fact many seemed to want him before he went to Sunderland.

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i wish jj was my dad
7 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

As the article stated, he was backed in the summer and given the funds to buy these players. The League Cup was directly responsible for his sacking and even then, Levein still wanted him to stay on. He was overruled by AB. He also wanted to pick his aucccesor before taking over himself. The idea that he will choose his own replacement this close season is a frightening prospect. 

How do we know AB over ruled CL over Cathro or did that come from the same sources that told us Jamie Walker was offered a £50 a month wage rise?

 

As for the comment about Sammon. I'm assuming that it is because he is big and strong? He has never been a target man in his life. Can't head the ball and he is known for running the channels. Hardly a Mark De Vries type.

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5 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Exactly. The signings from

summer 2017 onwards have largely been very good. A mixture of known quantities, solid English lower league pros, European projects and youth development options. Regardless of how much negativity can be summoned up on here we aren’t far away at all from a very good squad. Before we know it we will have the vultures picking us apart for the likes of Uche, Souttar, Haring and Clare.

 

Very true. The "signing 19 players" thing that gets trotted out as if it's a bad thing simply reflects the major surgery to the squad that needed doing after two manager changes in quick succession. 

 

The fact is most of our best performers this year were signed last summer. Naismith and Haring are arguably the two signings of the season from any club this year for different reasons. Uche is unplayable on his day. Clare and Mulraney are starting to look like real finds. Lee's assists must be up near the top of the assists table, same with Naismith's goals and Zlamal's saves. They're not world beaters but without injuries to half of them who knows where we'd be. Naismith has the best goals to games ratio in the country after Morales in the list of top scorers. He could have been top scorer in the league by now if it wasn't for injury.

 

On top of that, signing several key players on extensions is a sign of a very good culture within the club.

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upgotheheads

What would the response on this website  and other opinion outlets (BBC for example) have been if Craig Levein had been involved in the kind of behaviour displayed by Derek McKinnes and his players last Sunday?

It seems to me that McKinnes is untouchable while CL  gets it in the neck from the MSM for any failure of his team.

 

Aberdeen were brutal last Sunday, McKinnes  gesturing to the Celtic fans was stupid and inexcusable, Ferguson and Ball were just thugs on the rampage. If Hearts and Craig Levein had behaved like that I would have been disgusted and ashamed, I'm  guessing that the fans on this website would have felt the same, and AB would have had something to say about it.

 

 CL has only been spared further filleting because we're in the Final. If you compare where we stand versus Aberdeen this season,  the injuries we've suffered , and the fact that Hearts are still very much in recovery from past events then maybe we should have some perspective. I'd be the first to agree that we have sometimes been awful to watch,  but the season isn't over yet and we could still be within reach of fourth place with a couple of games to go and win the Cup to boot. Those who think we should dump CL at the first opportunity should be careful what they wish for, we could end up like Aberdeen with someone like McKinnes as manager.

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31 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

What would the response on this website  and other opinion outlets (BBC for example) have been if Craig Levein had been involved in the kind of behaviour displayed by Derek McKinnes and his players last Sunday?

It seems to me that McKinnes is untouchable while CL  gets it in the neck from the MSM for any failure of his team.

 

Aberdeen were brutal last Sunday, McKinnes  gesturing to the Celtic fans was stupid and inexcusable, Ferguson and Ball were just thugs on the rampage. If Hearts and Craig Levein had behaved like that I would have been disgusted and ashamed, I'm  guessing that the fans on this website would have felt the same, and AB would have had something to say about it.

 

 CL has only been spared further filleting because we're in the Final. If you compare where we stand versus Aberdeen this season,  the injuries we've suffered , and the fact that Hearts are still very much in recovery from past events then maybe we should have some perspective. I'd be the first to agree that we have sometimes been awful to watch,  but the season isn't over yet and we could still be within reach of fourth place with a couple of games to go and win the Cup to boot. Those who think we should dump CL at the first opportunity should be careful what they wish for, we could end up like Aberdeen with someone like McKinnes as manager.

Brilliant last paragraph!

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46 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

What would the response on this website  and other opinion outlets (BBC for example) have been if Craig Levein had been involved in the kind of behaviour displayed by Derek McKinnes and his players last Sunday?

It seems to me that McKinnes is untouchable while CL  gets it in the neck from the MSM for any failure of his team.

 

Aberdeen were brutal last Sunday, McKinnes  gesturing to the Celtic fans was stupid and inexcusable, Ferguson and Ball were just thugs on the rampage. If Hearts and Craig Levein had behaved like that I would have been disgusted and ashamed, I'm  guessing that the fans on this website would have felt the same, and AB would have had something to say about it.

 

 CL has only been spared further filleting because we're in the Final. If you compare where we stand versus Aberdeen this season,  the injuries we've suffered , and the fact that Hearts are still very much in recovery from past events then maybe we should have some perspective. I'd be the first to agree that we have sometimes been awful to watch,  but the season isn't over yet and we could still be within reach of fourth place with a couple of games to go and win the Cup to boot. Those who think we should dump CL at the first opportunity should be careful what they wish for, we could end up like Aberdeen with someone like McKinnes as manager.

Spot on. Excellent post.

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2 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

I am nearly at the point of believing Craig should go before the cup final. 

I agree

but it won’t happen

having won Nothing as a player or manager he is holding on to this job till at least then

we will get pumped in the final ?

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Arthur Morgan
3 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Regardless of the cup final, I think Craig needs to go at the end of this season. 

This. Sick of watching this pish. 

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Enzo Chiefo
22 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

I am nearly at the point of believing Craig should go before the cup final. 

Well, if we want to give ourselves any chance of winning it then, yes, i agree. Don't think it's practical unfortunately and I certainly don't see AB depriving Levein the opportunity of leading the team out at Hampden.

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1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Well, if we want to give ourselves any chance of winning it then, yes, i agree. Don't think it's practical unfortunately and I certainly don't see AB depriving Levein the opportunity of leading the team out at Hampden.

I don’t want Craig to be deprived of that opportunity either. The guy is a club legend; watching us over the past couple months tho it’s difficult to believe the result will be anything over than a Celtic win. 

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Cruyff Turn

TBF today 3 individual mistakes and once the 3rd went in, the place emptied and the players just gave up. No fight, zero quality at all, players not working hard enough.

 

All in all though 2 wins in 10, 6th place again, 25pts out of the last 72. It’s over for CL. It’s simply not good enough.

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Final is make or break for CL

if he wins, the ball is in his court to go on a high or lead the charge to europe.

He loses and majority of support is against him not to mention the perennial loser tag on a personal level.

he HAS to win the final or he's finished.

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20 minutes ago, hearts00 said:

He has to go. Results, performance and quality of squad are abysmal. 

Pointless leaving now.  I’m sick to the back teeth of him but if he was going to go it had to be before the ICT game. 

 

No way a manager will make a positive change in the space of a month and having a shite manager is better than having no manager.  He’s beaten Celtic before hope to **** he can do it again but think we’re looking down the barrel of another 7-0 gubbing tbh, Lennon isn’t going to take the foot off the gas after 3 like Gerrard. 

 

 

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Just now, Alan_R said:

Final is make or break for CL

if he wins, the ball is in his court to go on a high or lead the charge to europe.

He loses and majority of support is against him not to mention the perennial loser tag on a personal level.

he HAS to win the final or he's finished.

He’s finished now. 

 

If we wins the cup he still has to go. 

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Forever Hearts
45 minutes ago, It should have been ten said:

 

**** you 

Fitba is fantastic under him isn't it? 10 year deal ok with you? 

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It should have been ten
2 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

Fitba is fantastic under him isn't it? 10 year deal ok with you? 

 

Maybe not quite 10 year 

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
4 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

Fitba is fantastic under him isn't it? 10 year deal ok with you? 

 

Defo. Five year plan has been sensational

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Forever Hearts
1 minute ago, It should have been ten said:

 

Maybe not quite 10 year 

I despair with fans like you who just blindly follow. 

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It should have been ten
10 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

I despair with fans like you who just blindly follow. 

 

:orly?:

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It should have been ten
On 18/04/2019 at 09:52, upgotheheads said:

What would the response on this website  and other opinion outlets (BBC for example) have been if Craig Levein had been involved in the kind of behaviour displayed by Derek McKinnes and his players last Sunday?

It seems to me that McKinnes is untouchable while CL  gets it in the neck from the MSM for any failure of his team.

 

Aberdeen were brutal last Sunday, McKinnes  gesturing to the Celtic fans was stupid and inexcusable, Ferguson and Ball were just thugs on the rampage. If Hearts and Craig Levein had behaved like that I would have been disgusted and ashamed, I'm  guessing that the fans on this website would have felt the same, and AB would have had something to say about it.

 

 CL has only been spared further filleting because we're in the Final. If you compare where we stand versus Aberdeen this season,  the injuries we've suffered , and the fact that Hearts are still very much in recovery from past events then maybe we should have some perspective. I'd be the first to agree that we have sometimes been awful to watch,  but the season isn't over yet and we could still be within reach of fourth place with a couple of games to go and win the Cup to boot. Those who think we should dump CL at the first opportunity should be careful what they wish for, we could end up like Aberdeen with someone like McKinnes as manager.

 

Spot on 

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We should all unite behind Craig and push him as far away from Tynecastle as possible.Come back and chase the rest of the so called coaches up Mcleod street with pitchforks.Pay Mrs Budge off and start again.Lots of good things done by some ,however ,far,far too safe in their respective positions.

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Forever Hearts
On 18/04/2019 at 09:52, upgotheheads said:

What would the response on this website  and other opinion outlets (BBC for example) have been if Craig Levein had been involved in the kind of behaviour displayed by Derek McKinnes and his players last Sunday?

It seems to me that McKinnes is untouchable while CL  gets it in the neck from the MSM for any failure of his team.

 

Aberdeen were brutal last Sunday, McKinnes  gesturing to the Celtic fans was stupid and inexcusable, Ferguson and Ball were just thugs on the rampage. If Hearts and Craig Levein had behaved like that I would have been disgusted and ashamed, I'm  guessing that the fans on this website would have felt the same, and AB would have had something to say about it.

 

 CL has only been spared further filleting because we're in the Final. If you compare where we stand versus Aberdeen this season,  the injuries we've suffered , and the fact that Hearts are still very much in recovery from past events then maybe we should have some perspective. I'd be the first to agree that we have sometimes been awful to watch,  but the season isn't over yet and we could still be within reach of fourth place with a couple of games to go and win the Cup to boot. Those who think we should dump CL at the first opportunity should be careful what they wish for, we could end up like Aberdeen with someone like McKinnes as manager.

You think we can win the cup with that team and that manager? 

 

?????????

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On 18/04/2019 at 09:52, upgotheheads said:

What would the response on this website  and other opinion outlets (BBC for example) have been if Craig Levein had been involved in the kind of behaviour displayed by Derek McKinnes and his players last Sunday?

It seems to me that McKinnes is untouchable while CL  gets it in the neck from the MSM for any failure of his team.

 

Aberdeen were brutal last Sunday, McKinnes  gesturing to the Celtic fans was stupid and inexcusable, Ferguson and Ball were just thugs on the rampage. If Hearts and Craig Levein had behaved like that I would have been disgusted and ashamed, I'm  guessing that the fans on this website would have felt the same, and AB would have had something to say about it.

 

 CL has only been spared further filleting because we're in the Final. If you compare where we stand versus Aberdeen this season,  the injuries we've suffered , and the fact that Hearts are still very much in recovery from past events then maybe we should have some perspective. I'd be the first to agree that we have sometimes been awful to watch,  but the season isn't over yet and we could still be within reach of fourth place with a couple of games to go and win the Cup to boot. Those who think we should dump CL at the first opportunity should be careful what they wish for, we could end up like Aberdeen with someone like McKinnes as manager.

“those who think we should dump Craig at the first opportunity”

 

:rofl:  :rofl: 

 

He was lucky to not be out the door after 5-0 against livingston.  You are absolutely deluded beyond belief if you think today is the first time people are justified in wanting rid of him.  He’s had chance after chance and he changes nothing, we’re playing the same shite failing football week in week out.  Serious questions should’ve been asked of him when he appointed a laddie who would struggle to manage the u20s as head coach never mind taking the job as manager himself. 

 

God forbid we got rid of Levein and had a guy like Mcinnes who has had Aberdeen consistently up competing where they should be. 

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Enzo Chiefo
8 minutes ago, Morph said:

“those who think we should dump Craig at the first opportunity”

 

:rofl:  :rofl: 

 

He was lucky to not be out the door after 5-0 against livingston.  You are absolutely deluded beyond belief if you think today is the first time people are justified in wanting rid of him.  He’s had chance after chance and he changes nothing, we’re playing the same shite failing football week in week out.  Serious questions should’ve been asked of him when he appointed a laddie who would struggle to manage the u20s as head coach never mind taking the job as manager himself. 

 

God forbid we got rid of Levein and had a guy like Mcinnes who has had Aberdeen consistently up competing where they should be. 

Posters talk about being "still in recovery after the Cathro experiment". He was only there about 6 months so the effects were negligible.  However, the football is no better at all post Cathro and it's clear that the Levein experiment has failed. He is now a drag on the club, the players and the fans. While I don't think it's practical to get rid of him before Hampden, doing so would be like a huge breath of fresh air to the club . Neil McCann highlighted the fact today that we were punting long balls to Uche with no one supporting him, or within 30 yards of him. Michael Stewart highlighted exactly the same failings last season when Lafferty was the out-ball. Levein persists with the same tactics time after time despite their clear failings.

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upgotheheads
On 18/04/2019 at 09:52, upgotheheads said:

What would the response on this website  and other opinion outlets (BBC for example) have been if Craig Levein had been involved in the kind of behaviour displayed by Derek McKinnes and his players last Sunday?

It seems to me that McKinnes is untouchable while CL  gets it in the neck from the MSM for any failure of his team.

 

Aberdeen were brutal last Sunday, McKinnes  gesturing to the Celtic fans was stupid and inexcusable, Ferguson and Ball were just thugs on the rampage. If Hearts and Craig Levein had behaved like that I would have been disgusted and ashamed, I'm  guessing that the fans on this website would have felt the same, and AB would have had something to say about it.

 

 CL has only been spared further filleting because we're in the Final. If you compare where we stand versus Aberdeen this season,  the injuries we've suffered , and the fact that Hearts are still very much in recovery from past events then maybe we should have some perspective. I'd be the first to agree that we have sometimes been awful to watch,  but the season isn't over yet and we could still be within reach of fourth place with a couple of games to go and win the Cup to boot. Those who think we should dump CL at the first opportunity should be careful what they wish for, we could end up like Aberdeen with someone like McKinnes as manager.

9 minutes ago, Morph said:

“those who think we should dump Craig at the first opportunity”

 

:rofl:  :rofl: 

 

He was lucky to not be out the door after 5-0 against livingston.  You are absolutely deluded beyond belief if you think today is the first time people are justified in wanting rid of him.  He’s had chance after chance and he changes nothing, we’re playing the same shite failing football week in week out.  Serious questions should’ve been asked of him when he appointed a laddie who would struggle to manage the u20s as head coach never mind giving him the job in the first place.  

 

God forbid we got rid of Levein and had a guy like Mcinnes who has had Aberdeen consistently up competing where they should be.

I stand by my remark about McKinnes he's hardly set the heather alight with trophy winning. But ok, fair points otherwise. Today was about our lack of quality in depth. If Clare, Keena , Haring Naismith and Morrison had been available then Wighton and Bozanic wouldn't have been near the squad. We're stuck with CL til after the cup final at least so we'd better get used to it 

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3 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

I stand by my remark about McKinnes he's hardly set the heather alight with trophy winning. But ok, fair points otherwise. Today was about our lack of quality in depth. If Clare, Keena , Haring Naismith and Morrison had been available then Wighton and Bozanic wouldn't have been near the squad. We're stuck with CL til after the cup final at least so we'd better get used to it 

I agree that we’re stuck with him until the cup and agree with poster above that there’s no point in getting rid of him right now. 

 

But I do think Livingston 5-0 was the time to go, I have no idea how any hearts manager survives that especially since the football was just as bad then and it wasn’t exactly a freak undeserved result.  Following that I’d say he probably should’ve walked after the Patrick replay to give a new manager time to get a feel for the team before pre season and maybe give us a bit of a lift for the semis/final.  I was slightly confident we’d maybe pull an upset after the ICT game but was obviously just caught up in the euphoria of getting to a final.  We’ve no chance with levein in the final and I’d be surprised if we get off with a narrow defeat.  

 

Whether he wins the cup or not he must go in my opinion.  We’re only going backwards and we aren’t hitting our minimum target which was 4th I believe.  Crazy to think that a lot of fans including me thought aiming for 4th at the start of the season after a flying start wasn’t ambitious enough :laugh: 

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Forever Hearts
20 minutes ago, old school tie said:

I hope that Lennon takes it easy on us in the cup final.

Like the 7-0 game when we had to play a team laced with kids? Lennon will want to humiliate us, make no mistake about that. 

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Surely nobody advocating levein staying after that? That’s one of the most embarrassing performances I’ve seen in years.  I’ve tried to back him but we haven’t laid a glove on them in what was essentially a free hit match.  The style of football is one thing but when a levein team shows no heart or desire it’s beyond recoverable.  Too many players in there that shouldn’t be near a hearts team and he’s signed them .  Enough is enough 

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6 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

Like the 7-0 game when we had to play a team laced with kids? Lennon will want to humiliate us, make no mistake about that. 

 

Sounds like there isn't any point you going to the final with that attitude.  There are plenty of others that will take your ticket.

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It’s fine ffs.

He will come out this week in the press and say something about hibs and some fans will lap it up saying how he’s a proper hearts man!!!! Whilst ignoring how shit we are on the park!!!

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