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Time to unite Behind Craig

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Jodami
2 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I'd be quite happy with that tbh. 

 

Nucleus of a half decent SPL squad. Give Daly a season to see what he can do. 

On what grounds? He has limited coaching experience and only has a B licence. We need a more experienced coach who is going to change the way we play. 

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Governor Tarkin
52 minutes ago, Jodami said:

On what grounds? He has limited coaching experience and only has a B licence. We need a more experienced coach who is going to change the way we play. 

 

On the grounds that I'd be quite interested to see what Daly could do. 

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Jodami
2 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

On the grounds that I'd be quite interested to see what Daly could do. 

I think the limitations of our coaches are being exposed most weeks. 

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Governor Tarkin
2 minutes ago, Jodami said:

I think the limitations of our coaches are being exposed most weeks. 

 

No arguments there, but I'd still be interested. Old Vader did a bit of damage when the Emperor let him off the leish. 

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Jodami
1 minute ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

No arguments there, but I'd still be interested. Old Vader did a bit of damage when the Emperor let him off the leish. 

I rather fear there may be more damage done by Daly being put in charge. To be fair to him he's only 36 so he would be better served learning his trade and building a career, sometimes early promotion is the worst thing for any young coach. 

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Enzo Chiefo
4 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

No arguments there, but I'd still be interested. Old Vader did a bit of damage when the Emperor let him off the leish. 

I would prefer Tyne Daly to get the job tbh Guvnor. She could bring in Sharon Gless as her assistant.  With Ann Budge at the helm too, what could go wrong?

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Jodami
1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I would prefer Tyne Daly to get the job tbh Guvnor. She could bring in Sharon Gless as her assistant.  With Ann Budge at the helm too, what could go wrong?

It's the right era for the type of football being played Enzo. 

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Enzo Chiefo
1 minute ago, Jodami said:

It's the right era for the type of football being played Enzo. 

Spot on Jodami.

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UcheGang

These guys take the training up till thursday then levein steps in and you can see it isn't working for us. 

 

MacPhees set plays are about the only thing proving successful from the 40 strong backroom staff.

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Governor Tarkin
38 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I would prefer Tyne Daly to get the job tbh Guvnor. She could bring in Sharon Gless as her assistant.  With Ann Budge at the helm too, what could go wrong?

 

:lol:

 

Not going to lie, Enzo, I had to Google Tyne Daly. 

 

And then it all made sense... 

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ToqueJambo
Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Jodami said:

It's the right era for the type of football being played Enzo. 

 

Cagney and Lacey ran from '82 to '88. We saw our best ever league campaign outside of winning the thing and best Euro run during that period, playing some great stuff (with a rookie manager at the helm and our current manager a vital cog it has to be noted). In a wider football context, the 82 and 86 World Cups and 84 and 88 European championships are still considered some of the best tournaments with some of the best football and most iconic players ever. Even Scotland were pretty decent in those days. 

 

Must try harder. How about using another TV show? Arthur Daly. There must be some riotously hilarious material involving buying and selling dodgy goods... 

 

Cathro aside (although he does still seem have a decent career in the EPL), given that inexperienced Neilson did well for us and inexperienced Jack Ross is doing well, maybe Levein can spot a coach? Just a thought.

 

Either way, we'll go for someone with a current or past Hearts connection as the next manager IMO. Pressley, Robbo, Ross and Daly could all be in with a shout (maybe even a return for Neilson), unless someone genuinely exciting and available and affordable applies.

Edited by ToqueJambo

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Enzo Chiefo
Just now, Governor Tarkin said:

 

:lol:

 

Not going to lie, Enzo, I had to Google Tyne Daly. 

 

And then it all made sense... 

Showing my age Guvnor.👍

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Governor Tarkin
7 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Showing my age Guvnor.👍

 

:D

 

I'm not far behind. 

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Cruickshank for Scotland
1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

On the grounds that I'd be quite interested to see what Daly could do. 

 

Like it was interesting to see what Cathro could do? 😏

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Jodami
5 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Cagney and Lacey ran from '82 to '88. We saw our best ever league campaign outside of winning the thing and best Euro run during that period, playing some great stuff (with a rookie manager at the helm and our current manager a vital cog it has to be noted). In a wider football context, the 82 and 86 World Cups and 84 and 88 European championships are still considered some of the best tournaments with some of the best football and most iconic players ever. Even Scotland were pretty decent in those days. 

 

Must try harder. How about using another TV show? Arthur Daly. There must be some riotously hilarious material involving buying and selling dodgy goods... 

 

Cathro aside (although he does still seem have a decent career in the EPL), given that inexperienced Neilson did well for us and inexperienced Jack Ross is doing well, maybe Levein can spot a coach? Just a thought.

 

Either way, we'll go for someone with a current or past Hearts connection as the next manager IMO. Pressley, Robbo, Ross and Daly could all be in with a shout (maybe even a return for Neilson), unless someone genuinely exciting and available and affordable applies.

Did you watch that team? I did. We played the ball long to a bustling centre forward and the ball was knocked down to the best centre forward I have ever seen in maroon. Does that sound familiar, well everything except the second forward who scored the goals. 

I agree that Robbie Neilson did well, I was not in the camp who wanted to see him go. However, the fact that he took the first and oddest job to come along makes you wonder what was going on with him and the club. 

You cannot seriously watch us and think our current coaching staff are doing a good job. Our transition is really poor so it's very difficult to create anything in open play. We chop and change formations and line ups, players often aren't sure where they are playing. These are clearly coaching issues. I don't think the playing staff are the worst, I do think they are under achieving. 

Going for someone with a Hearts connection is a one eyed approach. There are a large amount of coaches out there just now, we need people with football knowledge on the board and that is worryingly lacking. Could you employ a consultant for advice, I'm not sure. I like the Shelley Kerr idea, I mooted it a few weeks ago, many people in coaching circles think she is fantastic and innovative.  I do think someone will give her a chance after the World Cup. I understand the reluctance many people have about that idea but critically she has had the pro licence for more than 5 years and that is a prerequisite for anyone we appoint. 

The frustration is the club is in the best position it's been in my lifetime or maybe ever but the footballing side is under achieving. The position we are in  is down to people like you and I and many others who have stepped up. I don't think it's wrong to want better and I think Craig Levein has been given a fair chance, both as DoF and manager. It would be fantastic if he could bow out with a trophy but change should still happen irrespective of the cup final outcome. 

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ToqueJambo
3 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

Like it was interesting to see what Cathro could do? 😏

 

Neilson would be a closer comparison and he did alright. Ross Jack too, just not with us.

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Governor Tarkin
4 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

Like it was interesting to see what Cathro could do? 😏

 

I was all for that at the time too. 😁

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ToqueJambo
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Jodami said:

Did you watch that team? I did. We played the ball long to a bustling centre forward and the ball was knocked down to the best centre forward I have ever seen in maroon. Does that sound familiar, well everything except the second forward who scored the goals. 

I agree that Robbie Neilson did well, I was not in the camp who wanted to see him go. However, the fact that he took the first and oddest job to come along makes you wonder what was going on with him and the club. 

You cannot seriously watch us and think our current coaching staff are doing a good job. Our transition is really poor so it's very difficult to create anything in open play. We chop and change formations and line ups, players often aren't sure where they are playing. These are clearly coaching issues. I don't think the playing staff are the worst, I do think they are under achieving. 

Going for someone with a Hearts connection is a one eyed approach. There are a large amount of coaches out there just now, we need people with football knowledge on the board and that is worryingly lacking. Could you employ a consultant for advice, I'm not sure. I like the Shelley Kerr idea, I mooted it a few weeks ago, many people in coaching circles think she is fantastic and innovative.  I do think someone will give her a chance after the World Cup. I understand the reluctance many people have about that idea but critically she has had the pro licence for more than 5 years and that is a prerequisite for anyone we appoint. 

The frustration is the club is in the best position it's been in my lifetime or maybe ever but the footballing side is under achieving. The position we are in  is down to people like you and I and many others who have stepped up. I don't think it's wrong to want better and I think Craig Levein has been given a fair chance, both as DoF and manager. It would be fantastic if he could bow out with a trophy but change should still happen irrespective of the cup final outcome. 

 

I'll ignore your dissing of one of the best Hearts teams ever.

 

I never pay a lot of attention to the coaching staff at Hearts beyond the manager. In any case, how someone does as a coach doesn't necessarily relate to how they might do as the No.1. See Ian Cathro. Brilliant coach by all accounts but shite manager.

 

Daly is highly likely to be given a go as next head coach if the board or whoever think he's a good fit. I couldn't tell you what Daly's footballing philosophy is and had enough of that nonsense with Cathro to be honest, given he seemed to spend far too much time thinking about and trying to communicate his philosophy instead of trying to win games.

 

The fact is though that Levein has a decent track record at finding good coaches. Just like that Czech game as Scotland manager shouldn't define his managerial career, appointing Cathro shouldn't overshadow the fact that Neilson and Ross, to name two potential future managers spotted by Levein, prove he does seem to know what it takes. Daly is more likely to be like them than Cathro IMO, simply down to his playing experience alone.

 

Edited by ToqueJambo

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Jodami
Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

I never pay a lot of attention to the coaching staff at Hearts beyond the manager. In any case, how someone does as a coach doesn't necessarily relate to how they might do as the No.1. See Ian Cathro. Brilliant coach by all accounts but shite manager.

 

Daly is highly likely to be given a go as next head coach if the board or whoever think he's a good fit.

 

I couldn't tell you what Daly's footballing philosophy is and had enough of that nonsense with Cathro to be honest, given he seemed to spend far too much time thinking about and trying to communicate his philosophy instead of trying to win games. The fact is though that Levein has a decent track record at finding good coaches. Just like that Czech game as Scotland manager shouldn't define his managerial career, appointing Cathro shouldn't overshadow the fact that Neilson and Ross, to name two potential fire managers spotted by Levein, prove he does seem to know what it takes. 

Coaching underpins every successful football club. Good coaches can transform the same group of players, look at what Daniel Farke has done with largely the same group. 

Craig Levein should have no influence in appointing our next coach or manager, football moves on and ideas change. 

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JamboAl
16 minutes ago, Jodami said:

Coaching underpins every successful football club. Good coaches can transform the same group of players, look at what Daniel Farke has done with largely the same group. 

Craig Levein should have no influence in appointing our next coach or manager, football moves on and ideas change. 

Who do you think should have influence?

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Jodami
15 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Who do you think should have influence?

My personal preference is the DoF model but we seem to have ditched that idea. The difficulty is that there is a lack of football knowledge on the board and I think we need a clean break.

There are really only 2 options in that scenario, the board identifies the criteria they are looking for and runs the candidate selection process themselves or you engage consultants to do it for you.

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ToqueJambo
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Jodami said:

Coaching underpins every successful football club. Good coaches can transform the same group of players, look at what Daniel Farke has done with largely the same group. 

Craig Levein should have no influence in appointing our next coach or manager, football moves on and ideas change. 

 

He’s also on the board so will have an influence and quite rightly. Why on earth would we not take the opinion of someone with so much experience from managing in lower leagues in scotland to internationals? Also someone with a track record of identifying good young coaches? If he had the final say he wouldn’t be manager now, he was Budge’s appointment. As will the next guy. And as far as I know we haven’t abandoned the DoF model. Either he or someone else will take that on and have a say.

Edited by ToqueJambo

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JamboAl
50 minutes ago, Jodami said:

My personal preference is the DoF model but we seem to have ditched that idea. The difficulty is that there is a lack of football knowledge on the board and I think we need a clean break.

There are really only 2 options in that scenario, the board identifies the criteria they are looking for and runs the candidate selection process themselves or you engage consultants to do it for you.

But we have a DoF.  He's called Craig Levein who doubles as manager.

Re your last paragraph, do you imagine we haven't done that?  I'd guess Dr. Budge has a reasonable idea what she's doing.

PS - My image of consultants is that they talk a good game and achieve little, if any, extra for the large fees they charge.  No thanks.

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Jodami
9 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

He’s also on the board so will have an influence and quite rightly. Why on earth would we not take the opinion of someone with so much experience from managing in lower leagues in scotland to internationals? Also someone with a track record of identifying good young coaches? If he had the final say he wouldn’t be manager now, he was Budge’s appointment. As will the next guy. And as far as I know we haven’t abandoned the DoF model. Either he or someone else will take that on and have a say.

Ultimately that will be down to Ann Budge, I think at the initial press conference when he was announced as manager she said she would decide whether Levein could go back to being DoF if it didn't work out. I do think Levein has done excellent work on the infrastructure of the footballing side at the club. It's difficult to know how successful the development of home grown young players has gone as they have broken through but not sustained themselves in the first team. I'm not sure whether some of them were perhaps blooded too young, time will tell. The more experienced players signed in the summer have not looked obviously better ability wise though. Ideas such as having the same formation at each level were laudable but he has also broken that himself. 

It's highly questionable whether he would be willing to hand on all first team responsibility to a new coach and stay as DoF but I may be wrong. 

On your point about young coaches Neilson and Ross have made no more than promising starts in their careers. As DoF Levein invested a massive amount in another young coach and it was an expensive disaster. Such a disaster that he had to go back to management to try and rectify the situation. 

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Jodami
11 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

But we have a DoF.  He's called Craig Levein who doubles as manager.

Re your last paragraph, do you imagine we haven't done that?  I'd guess Dr. Budge has a reasonable idea what she's doing.

PS - My image of consultants is that they talk a good game and achieve little, if any, extra for the large fees they charge.  No thanks.

That's not how the DoF is supposed to work though is it? A failure in appointing the wrong head coach created the current situation. 

I don’t doubt Ann Budge's capabilities, I only point out the limited footballing knowledge apart from Levein. Our selection process after sacking Cathro was not particularly impressive or transparent.

Consultants advise and it would be up to the board to engage the right people and decide whether to follow their advice. One thing is absolutely certain, their fees would be absolutely dwarved by the amount of money wasted on employing a whole host of sub standard players from the summer of 2016 onwards. 

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ri Alban
6 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

:lol:

 

Not going to lie, Enzo, I had to Google Tyne Daly. 

 

And then it all made sense... 

Dirty Harry!

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i wish jj was my dad
4 hours ago, Jodami said:

That's not how the DoF is supposed to work though is it? A failure in appointing the wrong head coach created the current situation. 

I don’t doubt Ann Budge's capabilities, I only point out the limited footballing knowledge apart from Levein. Our selection process after sacking Cathro was not particularly impressive or transparent.

Consultants advise and it would be up to the board to engage the right people and decide whether to follow their advice. One thing is absolutely certain, their fees would be absolutely dwarved by the amount of money wasted on employing a whole host of sub standard players from the summer of 2016 onwards. 

What wasn't transparent? We know who was interviewed and we know who got the job and why. Other than a gnashing of teeth from that all round nice guy, Billy Davies the other candidates were respectful of the club and the process. Maybe the club should have shared the results of the selection panel but that would be a first and very disrespectful of the candidates.

 

For my money, Dougie Freedman was the preferred candidate but he was offered a gig in the EPL so quite rightly took it. If we had been stupid enough to employ Davies it would have ended in acrimony a long time ago, a lot of mud would have been slung, the weegia would have a field day and money would have been diverted unnecessarily to pay lawyers. Instead the guy who created the Cathro mess was asked to step in and fix it.  

 

Sub standard players like McLaughlin, Naismith, Uche, Haring, Milinkovic, Clare etc did alright for us. It's not gone how I expected but pre the worst injury crisis I remember we have played the best football since Burley and now we are in a cup final.

 

Unlike the tool behind me on Saturday who was still seething at 3 nil, I'd prefer to look forward to the final. There is every chance Craig will step down afterwards but it serves no purpose to undermine him or the club before the big day.

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Deevers
55 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

What wasn't transparent? We know who was interviewed and we know who got the job and why. Other than a gnashing of teeth from that all round nice guy, Billy Davies the other candidates were respectful of the club and the process. Maybe the club should have shared the results of the selection panel but that would be a first and very disrespectful of the candidates.

 

For my money, Dougie Freedman was the preferred candidate but he was offered a gig in the EPL so quite rightly took it. If we had been stupid enough to employ Davies it would have ended in acrimony a long time ago, a lot of mud would have been slung, the weegia would have a field day and money would have been diverted unnecessarily to pay lawyers. Instead the guy who created the Cathro mess was asked to step in and fix it.  

 

Sub standard players like McLaughlin, Naismith, Uche, Haring, Milinkovic, Clare etc did alright for us. It's not gone how I expected but pre the worst injury crisis I remember we have played the best football since Burley and now we are in a cup final.

 

Unlike the tool behind me on Saturday who was still seething at 3 nil, I'd prefer to look forward to the final. There is every chance Craig will step down afterwards but it serves no purpose to undermine him or the club before the big day.

Good post. I just wish some would sit back just now, get behind the club and give unconditional support until after the final.  I'm sure decisions will be made after that regarding the way forward for the club.

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Mr Elwood P
5 hours ago, Jodami said:

That's not how the DoF is supposed to work though is it? A failure in appointing the wrong head coach created the current situation. 

I don’t doubt Ann Budge's capabilities, I only point out the limited footballing knowledge apart from Levein. Our selection process after sacking Cathro was not particularly impressive or transparent.

Consultants advise and it would be up to the board to engage the right people and decide whether to follow their advice. One thing is absolutely certain, their fees would be absolutely dwarved by the amount of money wasted on employing a whole host of sub standard players from the summer of 2016 onwards

 

If you think the summer signings from 2016 are in any way comparable to those made in the summer of 2017 and summer 2018 you clearly don't have any objective capacity. Out of 20 signings made this season the only 'bad' signings have been Vanacek and Edwards. Even then, Vanacek assisted Clare for the 1-0 Scottish Cup win against Livingston and Edwards has been instrumental in the Reserve Cup success. The summer 2018 signings were so successful that we couldn't retain Lafferty, Milinkovic or McLaughlin, losing them to clubs with greater financial power. This season we've already lost Jimmy Dunne Sunderland due to his exceptional performance levels whilst on loan with us. For months we heard that Mulraney and Clare weren't good enough but strangely enough, being young players, both have developed over the season are now integral to the squad. Folk will latch on to Wighton as the next target until he comes good and serves up another slice of humble pie. The squad currently consists of a lot of players in the 17-24 age group which suggests that as a squad they can develop together over the next season or so and we might be able to achieve something very special. Craig Halkett is already an excellent addition for 2019/20 and I'm excited to see the calibre of player we can add.

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Jodami
25 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

If you think the summer signings from 2016 are in any way comparable to those made in the summer of 2017 and summer 2018 you clearly don't have any objective capacity. Out of 20 signings made this season the only 'bad' signings have been Vanacek and Edwards. Even then, Vanacek assisted Clare for the 1-0 Scottish Cup win against Livingston and Edwards has been instrumental in the Reserve Cup success. The summer 2018 signings were so successful that we couldn't retain Lafferty, Milinkovic or McLaughlin, losing them to clubs with greater financial power. This season we've already lost Jimmy Dunne Sunderland due to his exceptional performance levels whilst on loan with us. For months we heard that Mulraney and Clare weren't good enough but strangely enough, being young players, both have developed over the season are now integral to the squad. Folk will latch on to Wighton as the next target until he comes good and serves up another slice of humble pie. The squad currently consists of a lot of players in the 17-24 age group which suggests that as a squad they can develop together over the next season or so and we might be able to achieve something very special. Craig Halkett is already an excellent addition for 2019/20 and I'm excited to see the calibre of player we can add.

If you look at the total amount of players signed in that period, including the Cathro 8 in January 2017 then our strike rate of success is not great. I hadn't realised it was as much as 20 players this season and yet we will still finish 6th. As previously stated on this thread though I don't think our current squad is that bad, they are under achieving due to poor coaching. 

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Jodami
2 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

What wasn't transparent? We know who was interviewed and we know who got the job and why. Other than a gnashing of teeth from that all round nice guy, Billy Davies the other candidates were respectful of the club and the process. Maybe the club should have shared the results of the selection panel but that would be a first and very disrespectful of the candidates.

 

For my money, Dougie Freedman was the preferred candidate but he was offered a gig in the EPL so quite rightly took it. If we had been stupid enough to employ Davies it would have ended in acrimony a long time ago, a lot of mud would have been slung, the weegia would have a field day and money would have been diverted unnecessarily to pay lawyers. Instead the guy who created the Cathro mess was asked to step in and fix it.  

 

Sub standard players like McLaughlin, Naismith, Uche, Haring, Milinkovic, Clare etc did alright for us. It's not gone how I expected but pre the worst injury crisis I remember we have played the best football since Burley and now we are in a cup final.

 

Unlike the tool behind me on Saturday who was still seething at 3 nil, I'd prefer to look forward to the final. There is every chance Craig will step down afterwards but it serves no purpose to undermine him or the club before the big day.

I wholeheartedly agree on Billy Davies, that would have been a disaster waiting to happen. I was more concerned about the selection criteria that got us to the apparent final shortlist and that worries me going forwars. I do take your point about Freedman, his work since then has shown him to be a decent DoF and he may well be the one that got away. 

I was nothing except delighted on Saturday, I understand the value of cup finals and I am looking forward to it immensely. I think you maybe misunderstand my desire and indeed many others desire to change our coaching team. It's not about undermining the club or anyone specifically, it's about planning for next season. I sincerely hope Levein does step away after winning the cup but my overriding concern is the future of the team not individuals. 

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Mr Elwood P
25 minutes ago, Jodami said:

If you look at the total amount of players signed in that period, including the Cathro 8 in January 2017 then our strike rate of success is not great. I hadn't realised it was as much as 20 players this season and yet we will still finish 6th. As previously stated on this thread though I don't think our current squad is that bad, they are under achieving due to poor coaching. 

 

I think Levein should be judged for the transfer window’s that he has had full autonomy over. You could include summer 2017 in that as Cathro’s demise was imminent and Michael Smith, Berra and Lafferty all look like Levein signings to me. The team is currently underperforming as 80% of them have had major surgery this season and our best player has missed around half of the games. For an EPL example of how injury / surgery effects performance levels have a look at Kevin De Bruyne’s stats before and after his recent injury. 

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Jodami

Elwood, I admire the politic in your posts, it's wonderfully selective! I think there is a slight over exaggeration of the impact of injuries but I take that point on board. When it comes right down to it though we are very reliant on a loan signing who may have a chronic knee condition. Much as I love Naismith it's not the most reliable plan for the future. I would like to see us have a better shape, more fluidity in transition and bring in players who we felt could play in that formation. That's why I am of a mind to make changes to the coaching team. 

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Jamhammer
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I was all for that at the time too. 😁

You weren't alone. He was and still is a very highly respected coach. Not a manager though but how would you find that out without giving the fella a chance?

There are those who say we shouldn't "experiment" with managers but I'm all for giving up and comers a chance. I'd rather that than employ someone just because they used to play for us, even though they've already failed elsewhere.

At the same time that shouldn't exclude anyone.

Edited by Jamhammer

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Craig Herbertson
2 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

If you think the summer signings from 2016 are in any way comparable to those made in the summer of 2017 and summer 2018 you clearly don't have any objective capacity. Out of 20 signings made this season the only 'bad' signings have been Vanacek and Edwards. Even then, Vanacek assisted Clare for the 1-0 Scottish Cup win against Livingston and Edwards has been instrumental in the Reserve Cup success. The summer 2018 signings were so successful that we couldn't retain Lafferty, Milinkovic or McLaughlin, losing them to clubs with greater financial power. This season we've already lost Jimmy Dunne Sunderland due to his exceptional performance levels whilst on loan with us. For months we heard that Mulraney and Clare weren't good enough but strangely enough, being young players, both have developed over the season are now integral to the squad. Folk will latch on to Wighton as the next target until he comes good and serves up another slice of humble pie. The squad currently consists of a lot of players in the 17-24 age group which suggests that as a squad they can develop together over the next season or so and we might be able to achieve something very special. Craig Halkett is already an excellent addition for 2019/20 and I'm excited to see the calibre of player we can add.

 

Excellent post

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Enzo Chiefo
1 hour ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

I think Levein should be judged for the transfer window’s that he has had full autonomy over. You could include summer 2017 in that as Cathro’s demise was imminent and Michael Smith, Berra and Lafferty all look like Levein signings to me. The team is currently underperforming as 80% of them have had major surgery this season and our best player has missed around half of the games. For an EPL example of how injury / surgery effects performance levels have a look at Kevin De Bruyne’s stats before and after his recent injury. 

There was no hint of Cathro leaving that summer. He had only been there for a few months and we had finished 5th. Levein certainly didn't want him away even after the LC debacle. So, it's stretching credulity to suggest these were Levein signings. Of course, he knew Berra from his previous spell at the club but Lafferty's character is the polar opposite of what Levein appears to look for in a signing. The one signing that does stand out as a Levein one was Connor Sammon. An identikit Levein striker. 

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Mr Elwood P
25 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

There was no hint of Cathro leaving that summer. He had only been there for a few months and we had finished 5th. Levein certainly didn't want him away even after the LC debacle. So, it's stretching credulity to suggest these were Levein signings. Of course, he knew Berra from his previous spell at the club but Lafferty's character is the polar opposite of what Levein appears to look for in a signing. The one signing that does stand out as a Levein one was Connor Sammon. An identikit Levein striker. 

 

So Cathro was sacked in August 2017 but there was no hint of him being sacked that summer?

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/40788135

 

That perfectly sums up your contribution to this forum, unsubstantiated nonsense. Neilson also hand picked Sammon as a signing, so that’s 100% failure on your part. 

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Enzo Chiefo
27 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

So Cathro was sacked in August 2017 but there was no hint of him being sacked that summer?

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/40788135

 

That perfectly sums up your contribution to this forum, unsubstantiated nonsense. Neilson also hand picked Sammon as a signing, so that’s 100% failure on your part. 

What evidence do you have for Neilson "handpicking:" Sammon? Suit your argument better does it. Crediting Levein with the 2017 signings is probably the single biggest piece of nonsense I've ever read on this forum. McPhee knew Smith and Lafferty from NI and he also went for Malauray Martin specifically for set pieces which, as you know, we rely so heavily on for our goals.

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Enzo Chiefo
32 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

So Cathro was sacked in August 2017 but there was no hint of him being sacked that summer?

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/40788135

 

That perfectly sums up your contribution to this forum, unsubstantiated nonsense. Neilson also hand picked Sammon as a signing, so that’s 100% failure on your part. 

The players were signed in May and June, well before there was any hint of him leaving. In footballing terms, the summer means the close season, not the end of August once the season us well underway.

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Mr Elwood P
11 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The players were signed in May and June, well before there was any hint of him leaving. In footballing terms, the summer means the close season, not the end of August once the season us well underway.

 

How is August 1st the end of August? Cathro managed 1 point from the last 5 games of the 2016/17 season, to suggest there was no hint he would be sacked before August 1st is idiotic. He was on his way out long before the League Cup embarrassment, which is why I believe the signings that summer were Levein's. He no longer had trust in Cathro.

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moonraker

"Players get criticised when they're poor, that will never change. Younger players need given time though, look at how Mulraney has improved in the last couple of months. 

The issue is the poor quality of the coaching. Lack of a cohesive style of play, constant changes and no fluency in attacking transition. That will not change by bringing in more creative players, that can only change by bringing in coaches who know what they're doing and critically allow them to implement their ideas without interference. "

 

You been doing a Bielsa and spying on our sessions?  Current  and ex players seem to disagree with you on this "Issue". 

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Enzo Chiefo
46 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

How is August 1st the end of August? Cathro managed 1 point from the last 5 games of the 2016/17 season, to suggest there was no hint he would be sacked before August 1st is idiotic. He was on his way out long before the League Cup embarrassment, which is why I believe the signings that summer were Levein's. He no longer had trust in Cathro.

As the article stated, he was backed in the summer and given the funds to buy these players. The League Cup was directly responsible for his sacking and even then, Levein still wanted him to stay on. He was overruled by AB. He also wanted to pick his aucccesor before taking over himself. The idea that he will choose his own replacement this close season is a frightening prospect. 

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moonraker
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, moonraker said:

 

"Players get criticised when they're poor, that will never change. Younger players need given time though, look at how Mulraney has improved in the last couple of months. 

The issue is the poor quality of the coaching. Lack of a cohesive style of play, constant changes and no fluency in attacking transition. That will not change by bringing in more creative players, that can only change by bringing in coaches who know what they're doing and critically allow them to implement their ideas without interference. "

 

You been doing a Bielsa and spying on our sessions? A number of current and ex players seem to disagree with you and rate the coaching highly.

Edited by moonraker

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bringonthesevco
On 14/04/2019 at 17:26, CAI said:

 

Lets be honest with ourselves. Finishing 6th every season or 3rd every season makes zero difference. Except we get to be knocked out of Europe in round 2 or whatever. 

 

I want a Hearts team that actually wants to win the league and has the talent to see it through. We will never see it though. 

Zero difference apart from the extra 480k prize money between 3rd and 6th ??  Which equates to a £3k a week player on a 3 year contract .

 

yip no difference at all ....

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Olly Lee's left boot

So we're just discounting N Lennon as a replacement then?

 

He even had his own thread n' everything. 

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Mr Elwood P
1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

As the article stated, he was backed in the summer and given the funds to buy these players. The League Cup was directly responsible for his sacking and even then, Levein still wanted him to stay on. He was overruled by AB. He also wanted to pick his aucccesor before taking over himself. The idea that he will choose his own replacement this close season is a frightening prospect. 

 

I wouldn’t stress out. Levein is Hearts manager for the 2019/20 season. 

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Enzo Chiefo
4 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

I wouldn’t stress out. Levein is Hearts manager for the 2019/20 season. 

No chance. 

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Mr Elwood P
10 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

No chance. 

 

Almost definitely if we lose the Scottish Cup final, absolute certainty if we win it. Why would we not want the only manger to get us into the Europa League group stages to have another crack at the same competition? We’ve signed up the majority of the squad on long term deals with hopefully Haring, Djoum and Naismith to follow.  A lot of the squad are 17-24 and have developed over the season. A new manager wouldn’t be able to bring in many players so I think we should let Levein continue what he’s started. Much improved Scottish Cup and League Cup runs, beaten Celtic twice and managed to get our first win at Easter Road in years. League form has been a disappointment after a sensational start but the injuries we’ve had derailed our league campaign. 

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JamboAl
12 hours ago, Jodami said:

That's not how the DoF is supposed to work though is it? A failure in appointing the wrong head coach created the current situation. 

I don’t doubt Ann Budge's capabilities, I only point out the limited footballing knowledge apart from Levein. Our selection process after sacking Cathro was not particularly impressive or transparent.

Consultants advise and it would be up to the board to engage the right people and decide whether to follow their advice. One thing is absolutely certain, their fees would be absolutely dwarved by the amount of money wasted on employing a whole host of sub standard players from the summer of 2016 onwards. 

2

The first question we should ask is whether we are a big enough club to actually NEED a DoF and the second one is to ask can we afford one.

Consultants do advise but they do not provide the money and if you believe some trumped up suit sitting in an office knows more about better value football players than say Neil Lennon, Craig Levein or Derek Mcinnes etc., then I amazed.

The sub standard players as you call them were reflective of our financial position.  I have not spoken with Ann Budge but I'd guess she could not afford for us to sign L.Messi or C.Ronaldo

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Tasavallan
2 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

How is August 1st the end of August? Cathro managed 1 point from the last 5 games of the 2016/17 season, to suggest there was no hint he would be sacked before August 1st is idiotic. He was on his way out long before the League Cup embarrassment, which is why I believe the signings that summer were Levein's. He no longer had trust in Cathro.

 

Or only 3 pts from the last 10 games of 2016/17.   Cathro's position was under scrutiny and the League Cup defeat to Peterhead and draw with Dunfermline sealed his fate.   Just looking at the 10 signings + 6 loans made by the club in Summer of 2017 has Levein's name all over them.  Signing of players come under the DoF.  Certainly the return of Berra and signing of Lafferty plus bringing in Naismith on loan had nothing to do with Cathro.  

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