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Maple Leaf

"No Religion" on the rise in the USA

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Barack

'Mon the Godless!

 

 

:yas:

 

 

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XB52

The trouble is that the ones in power pander to the fundamental loonies so, even though more and more people are not religious, the extremists still exert huge control; especially in the USA.

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Maple Leaf
24 minutes ago, XB52 said:

The trouble is that the ones in power pander to the fundamental loonies so, even though more and more people are not religious, the extremists still exert huge control; especially in the USA.

 

I agree.  

 

After reading that article I got thinking about politicians in the US.  Of the 100 Senators, 435 Congressmen/congresswomen, and 50 state governors, I doubt if there is a single one who describes himself as 'non religious', despite that demographic being roughly 25% of the population.

 

There's an old saying that an atheist can't get elected dog catcher in America, and I think that's still true.

 

 

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SpruceBringsteen
52 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

I agree.  

 

After reading that article I got thinking about politicians in the US.  Of the 100 Senators, 435 Congressmen/congresswomen, and 50 state governors, I doubt if there is a single one who describes himself as 'non religious', despite that demographic being roughly 25% of the population.

 

There's an old saying that an atheist can't get elected dog catcher in America, and I think that's still true.

 

 

 

Yep. I married a catholic girl (now non-attending for over 30 years) but still woe betide me if I take the lord's name in vain to this day! However rather than seeing it as an affected lie amongst politicians, I see it as an ingrained American trait - like many others - because it suits those *actually* in charge. Oh you're an athiest/socialist/gay/person who believes black people have rights...?

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The Real Maroonblood
10 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

A recent survey in the USA shows that the number of people claiming to have no religious belief has surpassed both Catholics and Evangelicals.  It's the continuation of a trend that started more than 20 years ago.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/13/us/no-religion-largest-group-first-time-usa-trnd/index.html

Good to hear that.

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AlimOzturk

Religion is a hard thing to break. I was raised in a Catholic household, went to a Catholic school and even though I consider myself an atheist my wee mum still makes makes me do shitey Sunday prayers when I go up for dinner. 

 

 

 

 

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Mysterion
10 hours ago, XB52 said:

The trouble is that the ones in power pander to the fundamental loonies so, even though more and more people are not religious, the extremists still exert huge control; especially in the USA.

 

Some of the devout Christians are on the same wavelength as ISIS. It’s quite alarming.

 

On the one hand they advocate Christian beliefs and protection children, on the other they want the death penalty for people involved with abortions. 

 

Completely nuts.

 

My wife’s family in the US regularly demonstrate some sort of backwards gun control argument suggesting school shootings go hand in hand with the removal of daily prayer/religion in schools.

 

Crazy.

 

The biggest problem I see now in the US is the Christians/Evangelical terrorism that takes place (from the racism to the mass shootings). They just seem to whitewash it (no pun intended) as mental health issues.

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Harry Potter
9 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Religion is a hard thing to break. I was raised in a Catholic household, went to a Catholic school and even though I consider myself an atheist my wee mum still makes makes me do shitey Sunday prayers when I go up for dinner. 

 

 

 

 

nothing wrong with thanking the lord for food on your table, 

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Thaw

It would be refreshing to have an openly atheist or non-religious UK Prime Minister. Robin Cook only felt able to 'come out' as an atheist after he resigned from Blair's government, yet I doubt the majority of that cabinet (or any since) were more than nominally religious.

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Ray Gin

:pleasing: Tick tock

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Ray Gin
20 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

nothing wrong with thanking the lord for food on your table, 

 

Nothing right with it

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TheStig
29 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

nothing wrong with thanking the lord for food on your table, 

The lord isn't the one out working 40 hours a week to have the food on the table. Feck him 😂

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Harry Potter
23 minutes ago, TheStig said:

The lord isn't the one out working 40 hours a week to have the food on the table. Feck him 😂

Very true.

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The Real Maroonblood
26 minutes ago, TheStig said:

The lord isn't the one out working 40 hours a week to have the food on the table. Feck him 😂

:laugh:

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Harry Potter
Just now, The Real Maroonblood said:

:laugh:

Was a good reply tbf. only on kb.

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AlimOzturk
53 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

nothing wrong with thanking the lord for food on your table, 

 

The thing is all my Norms and values are based around Catholic traditions. So even though I don't believe in God the upbringing has given me a real decent base of morals and traditions for which to follow. 

 

This can be achieved without religion of course but I think everyone has a choice matter what when they get older. I don't think relgion Is a bad thing on the whole. 

 

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The Real Maroonblood
Just now, Harry Potter said:

Was a good reply tbf. only on kb.

To be fair the reply to your post was funny.

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J.T.F.Robertson
17 hours ago, Harry Potter said:

nothing wrong with thanking the lord for food on your table, 

 

Ever wonder why the Lord made it imperative we consume food? A lot of unnecessary suffering/pain to the creatures unfortunate enough to be on the menu, and a shitload (pun intended) of needless pollution / humiliation from our point of view. (just finished a bit of shepherds pie, btw)

Then there's cancer, dementia along with a literal endless list of other obscenities we are required to experience.

I know, it is what it is as "they" say, but all seems a bit of a sick joke if you do happen to believe we were the best that some OMNIPOTENT power could come up with. Tend to think I could have done a better job.

 

I do wish it was otherwise, a bit like in the morning I'll wish I'd kept this depressing shit to myself. Ah well, huv a good night/day. :55:

 

 

 

 

 

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ri Alban

The fear of God wouldn't go amiss, these days. 

 

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alfajambo
5 hours ago, J.T.F.Robertson said:

 

Ever wonder why the Lord made it imperative we consume food? A lot of unnecessary suffering/pain to the creatures unfortunate enough to be on the menu, and a shitload (pun intended) of needless pollution / humiliation from our point of view. (just finished a bit of shepherds pie, btw)

Then there's cancer, dementia along with a literal endless list of other obscenities we are required to experience.

I know, it is what it is as "they" say, but all seems a bit of a sick joke if you do happen to believe we were the best that some OMNIPOTENT power could come up with. Tend to think I could have done a better job.

 

I do wish it was otherwise, a bit like in the morning I'll wish I'd kept this depressing shit to myself. Ah well, huv a good night/day. :55:

 

In the beginning when God made mankind, he wasn’t designed to die.

The Bible makes it very clear that death is the penalty for our sin. When we sinned in Adam, we effectively said that we wanted life without God, to do our own thing and go our own way.

God is a Holy God and he had to judge sin, as he warned Adam he would. What we see around us is a world that has rejected God, a world that is running down and decaying, a world full of pain and suffering and death.

Again, from the Bible - because of sin the whole creation groans and labour’s with birth pangs.

However, Christians believe that even though we are sinners, those who have recognised their sinfulness and turned from it and trusted in Christ for forgiveness will spend eternity with God. This in a place where righteousness dwells and where crying and pain and death are no more.

Happy Easter.

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The Real Maroonblood
13 minutes ago, alfajambo said:

In the beginning when God made mankind, he wasn’t designed to die.

The Bible makes it very clear that death is the penalty for our sin. When we sinned in Adam, we effectively said that we wanted life without God, to do our own thing and go our own way.

God is a Holy God and he had to judge sin, as he warned Adam he would. What we see around us is a world that has rejected God, a world that is running down and decaying, a world full of pain and suffering and death.

Again, from the Bible - because of sin the whole creation groans and labour’s with birth pangs.

However, Christians believe that even though we are sinners, those who have recognised their sinfulness and turned from it and trusted in Christ for forgiveness will spend eternity with God. This in a place where righteousness dwells and where crying and pain and death are no more.

Happy Easter.

:rofl::rofl:

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...a bit disco

When I was on jury duty a couple of years ago, every member of the jury chose affirmation rather than the oath when we were sworn in.

 

'Mon the godless indeed!

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Ray Gin
49 minutes ago, alfajambo said:

In the beginning when God made mankind, he wasn’t designed to die.

The Bible makes it very clear that death is the penalty for our sin. When we sinned in Adam, we effectively said that we wanted life without God, to do our own thing and go our own way.

God is a Holy God and he had to judge sin, as he warned Adam he would. What we see around us is a world that has rejected God, a world that is running down and decaying, a world full of pain and suffering and death.

Again, from the Bible - because of sin the whole creation groans and labour’s with birth pangs.

However, Christians believe that even though we are sinners, those who have recognised their sinfulness and turned from it and trusted in Christ for forgiveness will spend eternity with God. This in a place where righteousness dwells and where crying and pain and death are no more.

Happy Easter.

 

Why did he design a species starting with only one male and one female, meaning their only chance of survival as a species was through incest? 

:levein_interesting:

 

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Justin Z
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Why did he design a species starting with only one male and one female, meaning their only chance of survival as a species was through incest? 

:levein_interesting:

 

 

Hah, that's hardly the worst of it, if you take these claims to their logical conclusion.

 

God, being omniscient, of course knew in advance all that stuff in Eden would happen--that is after all the definition of omniscience.

 

Meaning he created a universe where he knew the first humans would choose the wrong path--and lead to all the suffering and pain and death in this run down world. He wanted to cause all of this horrible tragedy, or else, being all-knowing and all-powerful, he would've created something else.

 

Being omniscient, he also knows every single one of us who have decided the Bible is just another bunch of fairy tales--would decide that, before any of us was ever even born, thus predestining us to an eternity of hellfire.

 

What a lovely guy, eh? Good thing he's entirely fictional, for I certainly wouldn't worship such an evil deity if it existed in reality, I'd spit in its face.

 

Edited by Justin Z

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AlphonseCapone
1 hour ago, alfajambo said:

In the beginning when God made mankind, he wasn’t designed to die.

The Bible makes it very clear that death is the penalty for our sin. When we sinned in Adam, we effectively said that we wanted life without God, to do our own thing and go our own way.

God is a Holy God and he had to judge sin, as he warned Adam he would. What we see around us is a world that has rejected God, a world that is running down and decaying, a world full of pain and suffering and death.

Again, from the Bible - because of sin the whole creation groans and labour’s with birth pangs.

However, Christians believe that even though we are sinners, those who have recognised their sinfulness and turned from it and trusted in Christ for forgiveness will spend eternity with God. This in a place where righteousness dwells and where crying and pain and death are no more.

Happy Easter.

 

So God didn't anticipate man sinning? Seems a massive flaw in an almighty and omnipotent God, naw? 

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indianajones

A-Getty-107875855_zwugoi.jpg

 

 

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Jambo-Jimbo
22 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Hah, that's hardly the worst of it, if you take these claims to their logical conclusion.

 

God, being omniscient, of course knew in advance all that stuff in Eden would happen--that is after all the definition of omniscience.

 

Meaning he created a universe where he knew the first humans would choose the wrong path--and lead to all the suffering and pain and death in this run down world. He wanted to cause all of this horrible tragedy, or else, being all-knowing and all-powerful, he would've created something else.

 

Being omniscient, he also knows every single one of us who have decided the Bible is just another bunch of fairy tales--would decide that, before any of us was ever even born, thus predestining us to an eternity of hellfire.

 

What a lovely guy, eh? Good thing he's entirely fictional, for I certainly wouldn't worship such an evil deity if it existed in reality, I'd spit in its face.

 

 

Nor would I want to spend the rest of eternity in the presence of such a hateful vengeful evil god, who set out from the start to punish and kill people just because they didn't do as they were told by him.

 

Thankfully though it's all sky fairy stuff and a pile of crap, it was even a pile of crap when the christians stole most of their stories from other religions and tried to claim them for their own.

 

 

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ri Alban
1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Nor would I want to spend the rest of eternity in the presence of such a hateful vengeful evil god, who set out from the start to punish and kill people just because they didn't do as they were told by him.

 

Thankfully though it's all sky fairy stuff and a pile of crap, it was even a pile of crap when the christians stole most of their stories from other religions and tried to claim them for their own.

 

 

Hopefully for you and Justin, it is make believe. Or you're fecked.

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Justin Z
17 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Hopefully for you and Justin, it is make believe. Or you're fecked.

 

Pascal's Wager--a very flawed exercise in question begging. What if this hypothetical non-fairy tale deity thinks anybody who wouldn't use their "God-given" intelligence to suss out the absurdity that is the Bible as a holy book--chock full as it is of errors, impossibility and internal contradiction--as in need of reform and punishment? What if he sees those who look at this book--especially those brainwashed with it from birth--and reject it, and he thinks "Now there's the ones using the mental faculties I imbued them with. They should be rewarded."?

 

Your "you're fecked" scenario only works with just as many assumptions about the rules of this game. Besides, what value is there in believing for the sake of some reward you'll be given after life is over? Not exactly a very deep conviction.

 

What if, more simply, we all die and get up wherever and it's Buddha waiting? Or Zeus? Or Brahma? Which God is the "one"?

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Ray Gin
3 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Hah, that's hardly the worst of it, if you take these claims to their logical conclusion.

 

God, being omniscient, of course knew in advance all that stuff in Eden would happen--that is after all the definition of omniscience.

 

Meaning he created a universe where he knew the first humans would choose the wrong path--and lead to all the suffering and pain and death in this run down world. He wanted to cause all of this horrible tragedy, or else, being all-knowing and all-powerful, he would've created something else.

 

Being omniscient, he also knows every single one of us who have decided the Bible is just another bunch of fairy tales--would decide that, before any of us was ever even born, thus predestining us to an eternity of hellfire.

 

What a lovely guy, eh? Good thing he's entirely fictional, for I certainly wouldn't worship such an evil deity if it existed in reality, I'd spit in its face.

 

 

:spoton: 

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i8hibsh
Posted (edited)

Encouraging but sadly we will always be in the minority.  The two 'big boys' will see to it that it will always be the untouchable monster.

Edited by i8hibsh

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Ray Gin
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

Encouraging but sadly we will always be in  e minority.  The two 'big boys' will see to it that it will always be the untouchable monster.

 

It's almost eradicated in Britain already. Young people, by and large, do not buy in to it and certainly do not go to church. Once the older generation die off it's pretty much done for. I'd be very surprised if America didn't follow suit a little bit further down the line.

 

Give it 50-100 years and Christianity will be reduced to little more than a lunatic cult following like Mormonism IMO.

 

Edited by Ray Gin

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Smithee
Posted (edited)
On 13/04/2019 at 21:43, Maple Leaf said:

A recent survey in the USA shows that the number of people claiming to have no religious belief has surpassed both Catholics and Evangelicals.  It's the continuation of a trend that started more than 20 years ago.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/13/us/no-religion-largest-group-first-time-usa-trnd/index.html

What exactly is an evangelical? I googled it but I'm none the wiser, I think you must need more general knowledge of christianity to get it. What's the difference between them and "normal" Christians?

 

Edited by Smithee

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i8hibsh
11 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

It's almost eradicated in Britain already. Young people, by and large, do not buy in to it and certainly do not go to church. Once the older generation die off it's pretty much done for. I'd be very surprised if America didn't follow suit a little bit further down the line.

 

Give it 50-100 years and Christianity will be reduced to little more than a lunatic cult following like Mormonism IMO.

 

 

 

I have a dream!! 

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Justin Z
1 minute ago, Smithee said:

What exactly is an evangelical? I googled it but I'm none the wiser, I don't you most need more general knowledge of christianity to get it. What's the difference between them and "normal" Christians?

 

 

alfajambo is an evangelical :61:

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Smithee
2 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

alfajambo is an evangelical :61:

 

Alfajambo's a bunch of things (as we all are of course,) that really doesn't help pin it down!

 

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Justin Z
Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Alfajambo's a bunch of things (as we all are of course,) that really doesn't help pin it down!

 

And of course, Evangelicals are all sorts of things too, so I want to make clear the following list in no way necessarily applies to alfajambo at all. He does, however, often post videos from people like Hannity and Tucker Carlson who endorse the things below, and that is what I was cheekily referring to.

 

In the States, in general, Evangelicals are:

 

- Anti-LGBTQ

- Anti-church state separation as long as it's their brand of Christianity getting commingled with the government, but rabidly against any other religion encroaching on the government

- The woman's place is in the home

- Anti-Muslim

- Anti-ever questioning America

- Military and police worshippers (bootlickers, if you like--they love authoritarians)

- Anti-right to choose; claim the moniker pro-life but in fact are only pro-birth and usually support the death penalty

- Often thinly veiled racists; see eg Jesse Helms, Jerry Falwell (and his son), etc.

- Tend to Christofascism

- The more extreme groups often view all of Earth as the devil's playground, and are therefore extremely austere, eschewing anything secular at all, and homeschool their children in 90% biblical studies.

- Thrive on convincing themselves they are victimised

 

Many other Christian groups by contrast, while they might be generally conservative, tend not to demonise the poor, seek to harm non-white, non-straight, non-male people, live relatively normal lives, and generally behave much more like their saviour instructed them to towards other human beings and in their political lives.

 

 

Edited by Justin Z

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Smithee
4 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

And of course, Evangelicals are all sorts of things too, so I want to make clear the following list in no way necessarily applies to alfajambo at all. He does, however, often post videos from people like Hannity and Tucker Carlson who endorse the things below, and that is what I was cheekily referring to.

 

In the States, in general, Evangelicals are:

 

- Anti-LGBTQ

- Anti-church state separation as long as it's their brand of Christianity getting commingled with the government

- The woman's place is in the home

- Anti-Muslim

- Anti-ever questioning America

- Military and police worshippers (bootlickers, if you like--they love authoritarians)

- Anti-right to choose; claim the moniker pro-life but in fact are only pro-birth and usually support the death penalty

- Often thinly veiled racists; see eg Jesse Helms, Jerry Falwell (and his son), etc.

- Tend to Christofascism

- The more extreme groups often view all of Earth as the devil's playground, and are therefore extremely austere, eschewing anything secular at all, and homeschool their children in 90% biblical studies.

- Thrive on convincing themselves they are victimised

 

Many other Christian groups by contrast, while they might be generally conservative, tend not to demonise the poor, seek to harm non-white, non-straight, non-male people, live relatively normal lives, and generally behave much more like their saviour instructed them to towards other human beings and in their political lives.

 

 

 

:laugh: cheers, I appreciate the honesty, but I can't help wondering how they see themselves. I doubt they identify as the nasty side of christendom!

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Justin Z
1 minute ago, Smithee said:

:laugh: cheers, I appreciate the honesty, but I can't help wondering how they see themselves. I doubt they identify as the nasty side of christendom!

 

No, of course not, to which I might respond with Matthew 7:16, "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"

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Jambo-Jimbo
1 hour ago, Ray Gin said:

 

It's almost eradicated in Britain already. Young people, by and large, do not buy in to it and certainly do not go to church. Once the older generation die off it's pretty much done for. I'd be very surprised if America didn't follow suit a little bit further down the line.

 

Give it 50-100 years and Christianity will be reduced to little more than a lunatic cult following like Mormonism IMO.

 

 

Christianity will be replaced by some other belief system, pretty much in the same way as all the previous religions which Christianity stole it's idea's from have went in the past.

 

Whatever Christianity is replaced with, you can bet it'll be something run by a few elites who promise the masses whatever they want to hear, whilst controlling the masses to follow their every word.

 

 

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Jambo-Jimbo
3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Hopefully for you and Justin, it is make believe. Or you're fecked.

 

I'll be dead, can't think of anything being more fecked than that.

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Maple Leaf
12 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

:laugh: cheers, I appreciate the honesty, but I can't help wondering how they see themselves. I doubt they identify as the nasty side of christendom!

 

The term is not precise.  For example, is there a difference between an Evangelical and a fundamentalist? I would describe them as the far-right branch of Protestantism. They describe themselves as 'born again' Christians. They believe in the literal truth of the Bible. They believe that every word in the Bible is God's word.  They believe that Jesus will return one day and walk the earth. They believe that one day avenging angels will slaughter everyone on earth except themselves.

 

There are Evangelicals all over the world, but the majority of them are in the USA, where they represent about 25% of the population.  But, as the survey shows, that percentage is declining.

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Smithee
2 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

The term is not precise.  For example, is there a difference between an Evangelical and a fundamentalist? I would describe them as the far-right branch of Protestantism. They describe themselves as 'born again' Christians. They believe in the literal truth of the Bible. They believe that every word in the Bible is God's word.  They believe that Jesus will return one day and walk the earth. They believe that one day avenging angels will slaughter everyone on earth except themselves.

 

There are Evangelicals all over the world, but the majority of them are in the USA, where they represent about 25% of the population.  But, as the survey shows, that percentage is declining.

 

That's probably the sentence I needed to make sense of it, cheers. I'd be interested to know how the more reasonable voices within christianity see them. @colinmaroon?

(Mods, please delete if inappropriate, I know the rule is that you can't mention posters if they haven't posted on a thread, but I figured it's different now that we can "@" them)

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Ugly American

This may surprise some folks, but the spouse (the Presbyterian Church of the USA minister) and I are both a little relieved this is happening (the trend has been emerging for decades, it's just now reaching plurality).

 

For decades in the US Christianity has been hegemonic -- by that I mean it's been so dominant that if you didn't explicitly claim something else, you basically just fell into the generic Christianity pot. Despite a constitutional prohibition on it, teachers routinely led non-specific but still Christian in origin prayers in my elementary school. There was a prayer before every high school (gridiron) football game.

 

And a lot of it was really shallow, conservative, self-serving Christianity. I had a decent number of bullying problems, but my prolonged break with the mainline church was probably cemented when three other good Christian boys jumped me after youth group at church and sent to the hospital for stitches. If the point was to instill moral education, clearly it was failing.

 

On a broader level, white Christianity (because as MLK observed, 11:00 on Sunday morning was long the most segregated hour of the week) has underwritten horrific racial discrimination and white supremacy. And when the "mainline" churches (roughly the Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Methodists, Lutherans, and UCC) started confronting the hypocrisy that underlaid the "Protestant Era" and the sanctimonious justifications of white supremacy, it spurred the growth of the "Evangelical" mega-churches, who were only so happy to prop up the church's worst impulses.

 

The "religious Left" never really went away (although with the JPII and Benedict papacies the Catholic wing of it got undermined considerably), but we found our voices drowned out by the Grahams and Bakers and Falwells and their imitators. The crashing down of Christian hegemony with the emergence of the "nones" (no religion) and the "dones" (ex-religious) means that there's a little bit of space for voices like Rev. William Barber, Bishop Michael Curry (who did the most recent royal wedding), and Presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg. And that's a good thing.

 

There's an irony -- Christianity was founded to be counter-cultural. It has often spread through the power of empire but often becomes central to the resistance to that empire. Every time it gets too powerful, there's a crisis in the church. I definitely believe we're at such a time. 

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Ugly American
17 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

The term is not precise.  For example, is there a difference between an Evangelical and a fundamentalist? I would describe them as the far-right branch of Protestantism. They describe themselves as 'born again' Christians. They believe in the literal truth of the Bible. They believe that every word in the Bible is God's word.  They believe that Jesus will return one day and walk the earth. They believe that one day avenging angels will slaughter everyone on earth except themselves.

 

There are Evangelicals all over the world, but the majority of them are in the USA, where they represent about 25% of the population.  But, as the survey shows, that percentage is declining.

 

Briefly, a fundamentalist will tell you you're going to hell and will slam the door in your face if you come by to say hello. An evangelical will knock on your door every Saturday morning to tell you he loves you and is praying for you and also that you're going to hell.

 

In Scotland, near as I can tell, the current Free Church of Scotland (the Wee Frees) are the evangelicals, and the Free Presbyterians (the Wee Wee Frees) are the fundamentalists.

 

The predecessors of contemporary fundamentalists were hard-line Calvinists who believed anything not explicitly mentioned in Scripture was an ungodly pollution of Christ's Word, and so even banned things like musical instruments in worship. The predecessors of evangelicals were the tent revivals of the 18th and early 19th century.

 

But more recently, a split emerged in the late 19th century/early 20th century Western Protestant church over things like evolution, modernity, and such. Many denominations started doing things like ordaining women to be ministers and preaching the "social Gospel" that was at least more open to a theology and politics of equality and redistribution. A couple of wealthy oil businessmen were bothered by this and published The Fundamentals, a series of books that laid down "new fundamentals" for how the church should be run, which included belief in literal and inerrant interpretation of Scripture, strong divisions between roles for men and women, a rejection of divorce, sex before marriage, same-sex romance, and so forth. The angry man thumping a Bible and screaming at everyone is your classic fundamentalist.

 

"Evangelism" is the general Christian term for outreach to others, but the Evangelical Movement refers to a specific set of things. Basically they believe all the same things as the fundamentalists, but embrace the "born again" language and believe the proper response isn't angry denunciation, but incessant, unstoppable, evangelism to convert the poor sinners who will otherwise suffer an eternity of damnation. There are far, far more Evangelicals in the US than there are fundamentalists, and so even though they sometimes get referred to as "fundies," that's not strictly true. All of the big name TV preachers, mega church pastors, and such are Evangelicals.

 

And white Evangelicals, despite supposedly opposing immoral lifestyles, divorce, and promiscuity, are the single most loyal demographic of Trump supporters.

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J.T.F.Robertson
7 hours ago, alfajambo said:

In the beginning when God made mankind, he wasn’t designed to die.

The Bible makes it very clear that death is the penalty for our sin. When we sinned in Adam, we effectively said that we wanted life without God, to do our own thing and go our own way.

God is a Holy God and he had to judge sin, as he warned Adam he would. What we see around us is a world that has rejected God, a world that is running down and decaying, a world full of pain and suffering and death.

Again, from the Bible - because of sin the whole creation groans and labour’s with birth pangs.

However, Christians believe that even though we are sinners, those who have recognised their sinfulness and turned from it and trusted in Christ for forgiveness will spend eternity with God. This in a place where righteousness dwells and where crying and pain and death are no more.

Happy Easter.

 

Same to your good self. 

Oh, and many thanks for diverting attention away from my slaverings to yours. ;)

 

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The Real Maroonblood
58 minutes ago, J.T.F.Robertson said:

 

Same to your good self. 

Oh, and many thanks for diverting attention away from my slaverings to yours. ;)

 

:laugh:

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ri Alban
3 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

And of course, Evangelicals are all sorts of things too, so I want to make clear the following list in no way necessarily applies to alfajambo at all. He does, however, often post videos from people like Hannity and Tucker Carlson who endorse the things below, and that is what I was cheekily referring to.

 

In the States, in general, Evangelicals are:

 

- Anti-LGBTQ

- Anti-church state separation as long as it's their brand of Christianity getting commingled with the government, but rabidly against any other religion encroaching on the government

- The woman's place is in the home

- Anti-Muslim

- Anti-ever questioning America

- Military and police worshippers (bootlickers, if you like--they love authoritarians)

- Anti-right to choose; claim the moniker pro-life but in fact are only pro-birth and usually support the death penalty

- Often thinly veiled racists; see eg Jesse Helms, Jerry Falwell (and his son), etc.

- Tend to Christofascism

- The more extreme groups often view all of Earth as the devil's playground, and are therefore extremely austere, eschewing anything secular at all, and homeschool their children in 90% biblical studies.

- Thrive on convincing themselves they are victimised

 

Many other Christian groups by contrast, while they might be generally conservative, tend not to demonise the poor, seek to harm non-white, non-straight, non-male people, live relatively normal lives, and generally behave much more like their saviour instructed them to towards other human beings and in their political lives.

 

 

You'd fit right in. Glass Houses springs to mind.

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Justin Z
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

You'd fit right in. Glass Houses springs to mind.

 

:lol: Glass houses, eh? Well, once I've supported policies that target the poor, disproportionately harm people of colour and other minorities, and directly contradict my own holy book's teachings about how to treat people, I'll be worried about the glass house I'm then living in.

 

Until then, these folk, who are the primary drivers of something I haven't mentioned--American foreign interventionist policy, which you absolutely love to have a go at (and rightly so)--will continue to be called out for the unchristian, warmongering hypocrites they are, and for ruining my home country, from my extremely secure place of moral superiority, thanks. :wink:

 

Edit: And for electing Donald Trump in their ultimate act of hypocrisy to date. **** them.

 

Edited by Justin Z

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