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Is it a Scottish thing?


King Of The Cat Cafe

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rudi must stay

Plenty is enough as an answer.

 

Don't want everyone knowing personal info, and I think this partly is why people say it.

 

People say less in general these days I have noticed  

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My auld man gets really pissed off whenever people confuse the use of 'of' and 'have' in language

Tbf to the old bugger If I stuck in at school I would of (sic) done better ::troll::

 

 

Edited by Marvin
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1 hour ago, bobsharp said:

 

Have to say that was pretty much my childhood language.When I think of it, it was by choice, we did not use it in the classroom, we also in our groups talked of a fitba', pictchur hoose, and many other derivations of the then Kings English.  What was the greatest pleasure was having a visiting Daniel Stewarts, or George Watsons kid try to emulate our language. The language came with patched troosers jerkins, and pals.

That’s interesting to hear Bob :thumbsup:

 

I’ve never been quite sure why some use certain words, and others don’t.

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58 minutes ago, Morgan said:

That’s interesting to hear Bob :thumbsup:

 

I’ve never been quite sure why some use certain words, and others don’t.

 

To be honest I think it was a district thing, where I lived was right in between, basically from say Montague Street down through the Pleasance was in the majority one type of people, say unskilled workers navvies etc. The other direction from say Salisbury Road was the other end of the scale, Minto Street, Mayfield Gardens etc. I think we adopted our school mates terminologies because it made us feel hard and tough. It was easy to learn you just added nae to everything. Willnae, cannae, wouldnae, etc.Know was abbreviated to ken. Like I frequently c omment simple minds have simple goals and pleasures.

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1 hour ago, bobsharp said:

 

To be honest I think it was a district thing, where I lived was right in between, basically from say Montague Street down through the Pleasance was in the majority one type of people, say unskilled workers navvies etc. The other direction from say Salisbury Road was the other end of the scale, Minto Street, Mayfield Gardens etc. I think we adopted our school mates terminologies because it made us feel hard and tough. It was easy to learn you just added nae to everything. Willnae, cannae, wouldnae, etc.Know was abbreviated to ken. Like I frequently c omment simple minds have simple goals and pleasures.

Thanks for your reply.

 

I have always done the 'adding nae' thing that you mention, but have never used the word 'ken'. I suppose it's possibly as you say - a district thing.

 

:thumbsup:

 

 

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AlphonseCapone

I grew up in West Lothian. The way I and most spoke was filled with Scots words like ken, dinnae, widnae, haud etc.

 

I didn't think anything of it until I went to Uni. That's when I first realised there was a lot of people that assumed if you spoke using a lot of Scots words that you were somehow beneath them because it was a sign you came from a particular background. And weirdly plenty of them made assumptions about your capabilities based on this. Someone I knew from West Lothian at my uni would speak with plenty Scots words with me then change completely when speaking to others, but not just the words used, she added in that bizarre Scottish accent you only ever hear from someone that went to a Uni. She was embarrassed by her normal accent in front of these people. 

 

I watched a documentary on BBC NI about the history of the Scots language, they are more interested in it as a language than we are I think as for a lot of people in Ulster it's strongly linked to their heritage (Ulster Scots). Naturally much of it was filmed in Scotland. They discussed how speaking in Scots was very common, even at the level of the courts. It changed drastically after the union of the crowns and speaking in Scots was discouraged as much as possible, especially in schools. The upper classes who were mixing much more with their English counterparts started speaking 'proper' English and Scots became seen as unrefined and provincial. Robert Burns is a famous example of someone who fought against this notion. The same stigmas around its use that started as long ago as then still exist in the minds of those uni students I encountered.

 

It has a very interesting history and there's a lot more recognition of it as a valid language, and explanations of the grammar involved in it. This site is very informative and there's games if you fancy testing your Scots language skills; https://www.scotslanguage.com/Education/Learning_Scots

 

I'll admit at times almost feeling ashamed at the way I spoke during my time at Uni, and probably believed I wasn't from as good stock as the others. Now I'm unashamedly proud of the way I speak and what it says about my background. I'm sure there are people that'll still judge it as just being the accent of a working class 'schemie' but I've certainly done well for myself. The way people spoke at Uni was an awful predictor of academic ability it turns out. 

 

That ended up being a much longer and personal post than I planned. Mad what comes to mind when you can't sleep due to pain! 

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John Gentleman
7 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said:

I watched a documentary on BBC NI about the history of the Scots language, they are more interested in it as a language than we are I think as for a lot of people in Ulster it's strongly linked to their heritage (Ulster Scots). Naturally much of it was filmed in Scotland. They discussed how speaking in Scots was very common, even at the level of the courts. It changed drastically after the union of the crowns and speaking in Scots was discouraged as much as possible, especially in schools. The upper classes who were mixing much more with their English counterparts started speaking 'proper' English and Scots became seen as unrefined and provincial. Robert Burns is a famous example of someone who fought against this notion. The same stigmas around its use that started as long ago as then still exist in the minds of those uni students I encountered.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf-e1bWf0gU

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8 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said:

I grew up in West Lothian. The way I and most spoke was filled with Scots words like ken, dinnae, widnae, haud etc.

 

I didn't think anything of it until I went to Uni. That's when I first realised there was a lot of people that assumed if you spoke using a lot of Scots words that you were somehow beneath them because it was a sign you came from a particular background. And weirdly plenty of them made assumptions about your capabilities based on this. Someone I knew from West Lothian at my uni would speak with plenty Scots words with me then change completely when speaking to others, but not just the words used, she added in that bizarre Scottish accent you only ever hear from someone that went to a Uni. She was embarrassed by her normal accent in front of these people. 

 

I watched a documentary on BBC NI about the history of the Scots language, they are more interested in it as a language than we are I think as for a lot of people in Ulster it's strongly linked to their heritage (Ulster Scots). Naturally much of it was filmed in Scotland. They discussed how speaking in Scots was very common, even at the level of the courts. It changed drastically after the union of the crowns and speaking in Scots was discouraged as much as possible, especially in schools. The upper classes who were mixing much more with their English counterparts started speaking 'proper' English and Scots became seen as unrefined and provincial. Robert Burns is a famous example of someone who fought against this notion. The same stigmas around its use that started as long ago as then still exist in the minds of those uni students I encountered.

 

It has a very interesting history and there's a lot more recognition of it as a valid language, and explanations of the grammar involved in it. This site is very informative and there's games if you fancy testing your Scots language skills; https://www.scotslanguage.com/Education/Learning_Scots

 

I'll admit at times almost feeling ashamed at the way I spoke during my time at Uni, and probably believed I wasn't from as good stock as the others. Now I'm unashamedly proud of the way I speak and what it says about my background. I'm sure there are people that'll still judge it as just being the accent of a working class 'schemie' but I've certainly done well for myself. The way people spoke at Uni was an awful predictor of academic ability it turns out. 

 

That ended up being a much longer and personal post than I planned. Mad what comes to mind when you can't sleep due to pain! 

 

Interesting comments. Although not extremely broad when among my peers, I too speak two different languages, standard English (with some mild Scotticisms thrown in for good measure)  and my dialect. But I don't speak standard English to impress or through shame. I do it purely so that I can be understood. I've met quite a few Scots in my time who were more or less unintelligible to foreigners and,  this is the rub, weren't able to switch to ordinary English to make themselves understood. In a world of international communications, it's pretty vital to be able to do so. So, certainly don't be ashamed of any dialect or Scotticisms, but also don't think that expressing yourself in a way that others who don't understand your dialect can understand you is in any way a rejection of your heritage. In other words, going around using your dialect to make a point when it means that others in a certain situation can't understand you is making an entirely different point altogether, and it's not a positive one.

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9 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said:

That ended up being a much longer and personal post than I planned. Mad what comes to mind when you can't sleep due to pain! 

 

By the way, are you ok now, AC, or is this long-term pain?

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AlphonseCapone
1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

Interesting comments. Although not extremely broad when among my peers, I too speak two different languages, standard English (with some mild Scotticisms thrown in for good measure)  and my dialect. But I don't speak standard English to impress or through shame. I do it purely so that I can be understood. I've met quite a few Scots in my time who were more or less unintelligible to foreigners and,  this is the rub, weren't able to switch to ordinary English to make themselves understood. In a world of international communications, it's pretty vital to be able to do so. So, certainly don't be ashamed of any dialect or Scotticisms, but also don't think that expressing yourself in a way that others who don't understand your dialect can understand you is in any way a rejection of your heritage. In other words, going around using your dialect to make a point when it means that others in a certain situation can't understand you is making an entirely different point altogether, and it's not a positive one.

 

Oh totally. I would never not try to be understood. I've got quite a few mates from various EU countries and alter my speech with them to be understood. I've now also taught them a fair few Scots words as well which they enjoy using. My experiences were entirely with fellow Scots and a few English.

 

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

By the way, are you ok now, AC, or is this long-term pain?

 

I'm actually at the hospital the now to be checked out. Went over my ankle playing football last night. Pain was exceruting last night.

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1 hour ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Oh totally. I would never not try to be understood. I've got quite a few mates from various EU countries and alter my speech with them to be understood. I've now also taught them a fair few Scots words as well which they enjoy using. My experiences were entirely with fellow Scots and a few English.

 

I'm actually at the hospital the now to be checked out. Went over my ankle playing football last night. Pain was exceruting last night.

 

Those "few English" might make the difference to making sure that everyone understands the conversation. It's a difficult one though - I once went on a date with a French doctor in London who took me out to a pub to meet some of her friends. Everyone spoke in French and this was before I had become fluent in the language. I felt pretty much left out. The date was a disaster. :D  But there were 7 or 8 of them - should they have spoken in English for my sake? I suppose my date should have done so at least, but she spoke mainly in French. It's the same if there are a bunch of folk speaking in dialect and one person who doesn't understand it. How much do you change your usual language to take that person into consideration?

 

I'm looking forward to the development of universal translators à la Star Trek. ;)

 

How is your ankle now? Broken anything? Meet any French doctors at the hospital?

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AlphonseCapone
1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

Those "few English" might make the difference to making sure that everyone understands the conversation. It's a difficult one though - I once went on a date with a French doctor in London who took me out to a pub to meet some of her friends. Everyone spoke in French and this was before I had become fluent in the language. I felt pretty much left out. The date was a disaster. :D But there were 7 or 8 of them - should they have spoken in English for my sake? I suppose my date should have done so at least, but she spoke mainly in French. It's the same if there are a bunch of folk speaking in dialect and one person who doesn't understand it. How much do you change your usual language to take that person into consideration?

 

I'm looking forward to the development of universal translators à la Star Trek. ;)

 

How is your ankle now? Broken anything? Meet any French doctors at the hospital?

 

No bone damage thankfully, but soft tissue and possible ligament damage. Got some sexy crutches though. No French doctors either!

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13 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

No French doctors either!

That was the best break you got today!

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2 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

No bone damage thankfully, but soft tissue and possible ligament damage. Got some sexy crutches though. No French doctors either!

 

Indeed. All the girls love a cripple. ;)

 

I wish you a speedy recovery!

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AlphonseCapone
2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Indeed. All the girls love a cripple. ;)

 

I wish you a speedy recovery!

 

Being pitied is already a speciality of mine ?

 

Thanks very much :thumbsup:

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