Is it a Scottish thing?

[King Of The Cat Cafe]

Something I have noticed recently here on kickback and during televised matches is the way the word "plenty" seems to be used in Scotland.

 

I have heard commentators saying: "he had plenty options" or Hearts had plenty players in the box", or on here: "we have sold plenty tickets for the semi-finals".

 

When I was at school - a long, long time ago admittedly -  we were taught to use the word "of" after "plenty" in circumstances such as those quoted..

 

It still sounds odd not to hear "plenty of".  Is the Scottish educational system different, or is this phenomenon part and parcel of the dumbing down of grammar?

 

 

 

[Boris]

3 minutes ago, King Of The Cat Cafe said:

is this phenomenon part and parcel of the dumbing down of grammar?

 

 

 

 

Close thread.

 

Edit:  I mean I agree with the dumbing down bit, but in a wider context I think we hear colloquial usage more and more via outlets that used to use "proper" English.  So perhaps it isn't dumbing down, rather wider access.  Or even evolution of language, for better or worse.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Boris

[luckyBatistuta]

I’m an of, still some of us around. 

[Der Kaiser]

"Kickback has plenty of arseholes"

 

Like this?

[Pans Jambo]

17 minutes ago, King Of The Cat Cafe said:

Something I have noticed recently here on kickback and during televised matches is the way the word "plenty" seems to be used in Scotland.

 

I have heard commentators saying: "he had plenty options" or Hearts had plenty players in the box", or on here: "we have sold plenty tickets for the semi-finals".

 

When I was at school - a long, long time ago admittedly -  we were taught to use the word "of" after "plenty" in circumstances such as those quoted..

 

It still sounds odd not to hear "plenty of".  Is the Scottish educational system different, or is this phenomenon part and parcel of the dumbing down of grammar?

 

 

 

Def in eight liy

[Justin Z]

I dunno if it's just Scottish. A question about the entire premise though--is it really "dumbing down" or just the evolution of language? From a purely practical point of view, the "of" in "plenty of" is entirely unnecessary for the sake of understanding. So what's wrong with implying it?

 

English is uniquely flexible. One example is how we love to use nouns as verbs. You didn't used to be able to say, for example, that you could "interface two computers together". The noun, "interface", became a verb. Some snob in 1965 probably deemed this the dumbing down of grammar too. Just an example but hopefully something to think about.

[Justin Z]

As well, in Dutch, which had great influence on Scots, when you say "plenty" you say "voldoende" (roughly pronounced vole-doon-deh) or "veel" (vale) but you don't add an "of", which is "van" (von).

[Marvin]

10 minutes ago, Der Kaiser said:

"Kickback has plenty of arseholes"

 

Like this?

 

 

[AlphonseCapone]

Dumbing down grammar? 

 

Don't understand this argument. The purpose of grammar and language is communication. If everyone understands the quoted sayings without the addition of the word 'of', and considering language evolves, it seems dumb to me to continue using a redundant word because it is seen as proper somehow. 

[AlphonseCapone]

18 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

I dunno if it's just Scottish. A question about the entire premise though--is it really "dumbing down" or just the evolution of language? From a purely practical point of view, the "of" in "plenty of" is entirely unnecessary for the sake of understanding. So what's wrong with implying it?

 

English is uniquely flexible. One example is how we love to use nouns as verbs. You didn't used to be able to say, for example, that you could "interface two computers together". The noun, "interface", became a verb. Some snob in 1965 probably deemed this the dumbing down of grammar too. Just an example but hopefully something to think about.

 

I should have read through the thread before I replied but your first paragraph is exactly my thoughts. 

[King Of The Cat Cafe]

Hmm.  Plenty opinions here.  Many them different mine.

 

I all for avoiding surplus words in lot settings.

 

Just because make words redundant does not mean easier understand things said, or changes language good thing.

 

No point brains work harder they should do.

[Justin Z]

2 minutes ago, King Of The Cat Cafe said:

Hmm.  Plenty opinions here.  Many them different mine.

 

I all for avoiding surplus words in lot settings.

 

Just because make words redundant does not mean easier understand things said, or changes language good thing.

 

No point brains work harder they should do.

 

The fact we can all understand this actually points to the beautiful flexibility of the human mind. For what it's worth, I didn't mean to imply that the evolution of language is "good"--I just think it "is". It's inevitable and will continue to happen whether we want it to or not, so personally, I figure no sense fighting it.

[luckyBatistuta]

21 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

The fact we can all understand this actually points to the beautiful flexibility of the human mind. For what it's worth, I didn't mean to imply that the evolution of language is "good"--I just think it "is". It's inevitable and will continue to happen whether we want it to or not, so personally, I figure no sense fighting it.

W cnt ll b s clvr s y thgh  

[Thommo414]

Think it works with a few words. 

 

Plenty options, many options, few options, some options. 

 

If somebody was to say something like loads options without the "of" I'd call that laziness 

[Thommo414]

2 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said:

W cnt ll b s clvr s y thgh  

Dnt pst lk ths gn pls, hdch rdng tht ?

[Justin Z]

12 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said:

W cnt ll b s clvr s y thgh  

 

8 minutes ago, Thommo414 said:

Dnt pst lk ths gn pls, hdch rdng tht ?

 

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Der Kaiser said:

"Kickback has plenty of arseholes"

 

Like this?

No, plenty Arseholes.

[ri Alban]

Big Tony Galenty.

[luckyBatistuta]

19 minutes ago, Thommo414 said:

Dnt pst lk ths gn pls, hdch rdng tht ?

 

Thnks, my hd pndng nw   

 

10 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

 

 

Clvr clgs 

[Morgan]

There’ll be folk who will write or say ‘plenty have’ though.

 

Stands to reason, because if folk write or say ‘plenty of’ it must therefore work in reverse, no?

 

[Justin Z]

6 minutes ago, Morgan said:

There’ll be folk who will write or say ‘plenty have’ though.

 

Stands to reason, because if folk write or say ‘plenty of’ it must therefore work in reverse, no?

 

 

Got any opinions on this, @sadj?

[Robbo-Jambo]

1 hour ago, Der Kaiser said:

"Kickback has plenty of arseholes"

 

Like this?

[Harry Potter]

4 hours ago, King Of The Cat Cafe said:

Something I have noticed recently here on kickback and during televised matches is the way the word "plenty" seems to be used in Scotland.

 

I have heard commentators saying: "he had plenty options" or Hearts had plenty players in the box", or on here: "we have sold plenty tickets for the semi-finals".

 

When I was at school - a long, long time ago admittedly -  we were taught to use the word "of" after "plenty" in circumstances such as those quoted..

 

It still sounds odd not to hear "plenty of".  Is the Scottish educational system different, or is this phenomenon part and parcel of the dumbing down of grammar?

 

 

 

What word would you replace it with ?, enough, loads, 

[Morgan]

4 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

What word would you replace it with ?, enough, loads, 

It's the fact that the word 'plenty' is not very often (nowadays) followed by the word 'of' that the OP is alluding to.

 

 

[Maroon Sailor]

Don't think the word "the" is in the Yorkshire dictionary

 

 

[¼½¾]

When did people stop using the word 'aplenty'?  As in,  "he had options aplenty" or Hearts had players aplenty in the box". 

[Morgan]

2 minutes ago, Lemongrab said:

When did people stop using the word 'aplenty'?  As in,  "he had options aplenty" or Hearts had players aplenty in the box". 

Yep, that's a good word, very 'akin' to others that are falling from grace like "whilst".  

[AlphonseCapone]

Doth ye reckon th're wast a fair olde brabble at which hour people did start declaring heading to sleep chamber rath'r than heading bedwards?

[redjambo]

4 hours ago, Justin Z said:

I dunno if it's just Scottish. A question about the entire premise though--is it really "dumbing down" or just the evolution of language? From a purely practical point of view, the "of" in "plenty of" is entirely unnecessary for the sake of understanding. So what's wrong with implying it?

 

The Americans are the other way round with the use of "of", I've noticed. "He was inside of a building", for example. Where did that come from? The influence of other language in the States such as Spanish?

[Francis Albert]

6 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

The Americans are the other way round with the use of "of", I've noticed. "He was inside of a building", for example. Where did that come from? The influence of other language in the States such as Spanish?

They do a lot of that sort of thing. They don't meet someone. The meet with someone.

 

Who exactly are they meeting with someone?

Edited April 3, 2019 by Francis Albert

[Morgan]

25 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

Doth ye reckon th're wast a fair olde brabble at which hour people did start declaring heading to sleep chamber rath'r than heading bedwards?

Gese, thou compose a fine point hither and one should'st erstwhile and is ne'r forgotten, forsooth.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Morgan

[Justin Z]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

The Americans are the other way round with the use of "of", I've noticed. "He was inside of a building", for example. Where did that come from? The influence of other language in the States such as Spanish?

 

Hmm, I'm not sure to be honest. That said, I've definitely noticed myself dropping conjunctions I'd normally have used in the past, having spent a lot of time here. No noticeable change to my accent, but definitely lots of changes to my word choices. I "code switch" to some extent when I go back to the States and speak in more American patterns without thinking.

[Francis Albert]

In the old Bond movie Plenty Tool wouldn't have really worked. 

[Harry Potter]

56 minutes ago, Morgan said:

It's the fact that the word 'plenty' is not very often (nowadays) followed by the word 'of' that the OP is alluding to.

 

 

Cheers bud.

[Morgan]

3 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

Cheers bud.

[AlimOzturk]

I cringe when I hear recordings of myself talk. My Mum was brought up as a Gypsy/Traveller and did not properly settle down in a house until she was in her teens. Therefore I was brought up listening to my travelling family and mum talk, but also brought up in Niddrie which is full of its own Edinburgh type of slang. 

 

I simply can't talk properly. I speak far to fast and confused as I know I am trying to say something, tell a story but this mixed up confused Gypsy/Scottish meess of dribble is comes out.  

[NANOJAMBO]

5 hours ago, Justin Z said:

As well, in Dutch, which had great influence on Scots, when you say "plenty" you say "voldoende" (roughly pronounced vole-doon-deh) or "veel" (vale) but you don't add an "of", which is "van" (von).

Same in German - viel, vielen. 

 

"Plenty" is definitely a word that is used a lot in Scotland . I notice it when I come back home and my kids use it to mock me. ?

[Unknown user]

7 hours ago, Justin Z said:

As well, in Dutch, which had great influence on Scots, when you say "plenty" you say "voldoende" (roughly pronounced vole-doon-deh) or "veel" (vale) but you don't add an "of", which is "van" (von).

I'd say voldoende is close - "sufficient" or "enough" (literally a full doing), so relating to the required amount like plenty. While veel is more "a lot" rather than plenty. 

Good observation with the grammar though, even with dates the Dutch wouldn't add the "of" in 24th of February, it would just be 24 februari.

I found the links between Scots and Dutch fascinating, our Kirk is their kerk, our dyke is their dijk, the stane that makes up the dyke is spelled steen but pronounced the same.

 

The east neuk of fife will make them giggle though. 

[AlimOzturk]

3 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

I cringe when I hear recordings of myself talk. My Mum was brought up as a Gypsy/Traveller and did not properly settle down in a house until she was in her teens. Therefore I was brought up listening to my travelling family and mum talk, but also brought up in Niddrie which is full of its own Edinburgh type of slang. 

 

I simply can't talk properly. I speak far to fast and confused as I know I am trying to say something, tell a story but this mixed up confused Gypsy/Scottish meess of dribble is comes out.  

 

And clearly when I try and write something the same dribble nonsense appears ?

[Justin Z]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

The east neuk of fife will make them giggle though. 

 

Ye ken?  Or is that, "je ken?"

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Ye ken?  Or is that, "je ken?"

Neuken in de keuken jongen!

[Justin Z]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Neuken in de keuken jongen!

 

Vijf tijden!

[Unknown user]

11 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Vijf tijden!

Ever get the feeling no one else is entertained?

[Justin Z]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Ever get the feeling no one else is entertained?

 

Pretty much every day of my life.

[Swanny17]

https://images.app.goo.gl/oKkTb6SLh95KSNUQ8

Edited April 3, 2019 by Cygnet

[Swanny17]

DP.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Cygnet

[Morgan]

59 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Ye ken?  Or is that, "je ken?"

Why then, do only some areas of Edinburgh, use ‘ken’ or ‘dinnae ken’ or worse

’dee ken’?

 

Never understood that.

[Justin Z]

28 minutes ago, Morgan said:

Why then, do only some areas of Edinburgh, use ‘ken’ or ‘dinnae ken’ or worse

’dee ken’?

 

Never understood that.

 

That one's above my pay grade for sure. A bit of complete speculation would just be that although it can be tinged with Scots, the language spoken here, and in most of Scotland, is English. So it'll be down to dialectical preference/influence just how much Scots gets into what's spoken.

 

By contrast, if you listened say to a Doric speaker--and she was speaking Doric, not English, in the language itself the word for know is "ken", so she and every Doric speaker will say it.

[Tazio]

15 hours ago, Morgan said:

Why then, do only some areas of Edinburgh, use ‘ken’ or ‘dinnae ken’ or worse

’dee ken’?

 

Never understood that.

 

In that case I'm from a full 100% ken area. 

[Sharpie]

15 hours ago, Morgan said:

Why then, do only some areas of Edinburgh, use ‘ken’ or ‘dinnae ken’ or worse

’dee ken’?

 

Never understood that.

 

Have to say that was pretty much my childhood language.When I think of it, it was by choice, we did not use it in the classroom, we also in our groups talked of a fitba', pictchur hoose, and many other derivations of the then Kings English.  What was the greatest pleasure was having a visiting Daniel Stewarts, or George Watsons kid try to emulate our language. The language came with patched troosers jerkins, and pals.