It’s not just Levein and Hearts

[Bazzas right boot]

14 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I’m not a Levein hater man but his record in Glasgow is absolutely woeful. We’re beaten before a ball is kicked under Levein through there. 

 

 It is an issue, but not a CL one. 

 

We have been chronic through there pretty much all my life, even chronic at Hampden up until 98.

 

It's not just suddenly happened under CL. 

 

The guy is quite rightly being questioned as results are shite, but the Glasgow thing is most certainly not only him. 

 

One thing he has done is get a couple of wins over celtic, put saints back in their box and got on top of hibs again. 

 

 

Said in another thread, every game is 50/50 atm. 

 

Celtic at home, Partick Thistle, all seem to be 50/50 with one moment deciding every game no matter the level of opposition. Frustrating, but results in general across the league have been like this, not an excuse- a general observation.

 

Over 3/4 of the games since Feb have been a draw or decided by 1 goal. Quite amazing tbh and highlights the competitiveness and/ or shiteness of the league. 

We haven't rose above it. 

Hopefully hibs and Aberdeen are in our favour but every game is a toil for us and most other teams as well. 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Olly Lee's left boot

[jack D and coke]

7 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Didn’t lose last match in Glasgow 

[jack D and coke]

7 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 It is an issue, but not a CL one. 

 

We have been chronic through there pretty much all my life, even chronic at Hampden up until 98.

 

It's not just suddenly happened under CL. 

 

The guy is quite rightly being questioned as results are shite, but the Glasgow thing is most certainly not only him. 

 

One thing he has done is get a couple of wins over celtic, put saints back in their box and got on top of hibs again. 

 

 

Said in another thread, every game is 50/50 atm. 

 

Celtic at home, Partick Thistle, all seem to be 50/50 with one moment deciding every game no matter the level of opposition. Frustrating, but results in general across the league have been like this, not an excuse- a general observation.

 

Over 3/4 of the games since Feb have been a draw or decided by 1 goal. Quite amazing tbh and highlights the competitiveness and/ or shiteness of the league. 

We haven't rose above it. 

Hopefully hibs and Aberdeen are in our favour but every game is a toil for us and most other teams as well. 

We weren’t always so rank rotten through there although in the last 15 years or so our away form almost everywhere has gotten ridiculously poor. 

I also accept things have changed for most going through there but we seem particularly woeful imo. Literally should just give them a 3-0 and save everybody the grief. The performance at Celtic when we lost 5-0 was shameful, we camped on our 18 yard box and it honestly looked like a training exercise for them. That’s hard to stomach. 

[Bazzas right boot]

19 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

We weren’t always so rank rotten through there although in the last 15 years or so our away form almost everywhere has gotten ridiculously poor. 

I also accept things have changed for most going through there but we seem particularly woeful imo. Literally should just give them a 3-0 and save everybody the grief. The performance at Celtic when we lost 5-0 was shameful, we camped on our 18 yard box and it honestly looked like a training exercise for them. That’s hard to stomach. 

 

 

I agree, but even a mauling at celtic isn't a CL thing. 

 

Not an excuse and we need to improve but getting papped through there just hasnt happened. 

 

In fact since 2012 semi they regularly hammered us everywhere with an odd draw thrown in, 2 wins this and last season v them is a marked improvement on the previous 6 years. 

 

I get your point and the need to improve, but imo it's harsh to blame CL for us being shite through there, it's deeper than that, imo anyway. 

 

I'm more worried about defeats and manner of them  at ****ing St mirren and Hamilton than the 5-0 of Celtic tbh. 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Olly Lee's left boot

[JamboGraham]

12 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

We weren’t always so rank rotten through there although in the last 15 years or so our away form almost everywhere has gotten ridiculously poor. 

I also accept things have changed for most going through there but we seem particularly woeful imo. Literally should just give them a 3-0 and save everybody the grief. The performance at Celtic when we lost 5-0 was shameful, we camped on our 18 yard box and it honestly looked like a training exercise for them. That’s hard to stomach. 

 

Probably following up on the least important part of your post (apologies, I hate it when someone does that to me) but you actually need to go back almost 30 seasons to the very early 90’s to find a really strong away haul from us...for the size of club our away returns each year are very poor.

 

Incredibly a win last Saturday (no sniggering at the back!) would have put this season as our 2nd highest number of away victories in almost 20 years...and that includes the great 05/06 side who managed 7 on the road...

 

Please don’t interpret this a defence of our current record. Some of the points we have gift wrapped and handed over on the road this season has been nothing short of shameful (St Mirren and Hamilton being the worst)...

 

This is not a new issue but what has come in this year is the added  lack of ability to get some credible draws on the road...it’s win or bust (or perhaps win or don’t even bother turning up) and that has prevented any kind of undefeated run on the road bar the opening weeks of the season...

[Pasquale for King]

55 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

We weren’t always so rank rotten through there although in the last 15 years or so our away form almost everywhere has gotten ridiculously poor. 

I also accept things have changed for most going through there but we seem particularly woeful imo. Literally should just give them a 3-0 and save everybody the grief. The performance at Celtic when we lost 5-0 was shameful, we camped on our 18 yard box and it honestly looked like a training exercise for them. That’s hard to stomach. 

Considering how it’s been proven that pressing them high up the pitch is the way to beat them. 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Considering how it’s been proven that pressing them high up the pitch is the way to beat them. 

 

whos pressed them high up the pitch at parkhead and beat them?

 

we tried it last season and were 3-0 down at half-time

[NaturalOrder74]

Would people rather swap shoes with sevco and be out both cups but with a decent 2nd place spot or be in the semi final and be 5th not far behind the rest 

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

whos pressed them high up the pitch at parkhead and beat them?

 

we tried it last season and were 3-0 down at half-time

European teams, practically every one that plays them there does it. Yes we were 3 nil down, game ended 3:1 so in two games against them back to back last season we won 3 half’s out of four (good spin that). Pressing them is the best way to beat them, would you not rather we did that than sit back and get hammered anyway as we usually do? Insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results ???‍♂️?

Edited March 19, 2019 by Pasquale for King

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

European teams, practically everyone one that plays them there does it. Yes we were 3 nil down, game ended 3:1 so in two games against them back to back last season we won 3 half’s out of four (good spin that). Pressing them is the best way to beat them, would you not rather we did that than sit back and get hammered anyway as we usually do? Insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results ???‍♂️?

 

european teams

 

id prefer mostly sitting in but a bit more adventurous than last time

 

I think Aberdeen sat in and got a draw last week?

 

 

[1971fozzy]

7 minutes ago, NaturalOrder74 said:

Would people rather swap shoes with sevco and be out both cups but with a decent 2nd place spot or be in the semi final and be 5th not far behind the rest 

I’d rather be second to be honest as with this management team a final means Russian roulette. At least we’d have European footy next season. Let’s be honest here folks, Levein and co are awful. How can anyone say otherwise I’ve no idea. The results speak for themselves but that aside the football is toxic 

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

european teams

 

id prefer mostly sitting in but a bit more adventurous than last time

 

I think Aberdeen sat in and got a draw last week?

 

 

What’s funny about that? Those rubbish tactically astute teams that can pass it forward and keep possession whilst being fit enough to press for 90 minutes eh, mugs. Have you seen some of the lesser lights that have beat them at Celtic Park. Aren’t we allowed to copy that, or copy the tactics we use at home against them?

Aberdeen beat them last season too, they’re set up to sit back and hit on the break as one their fans told us, probably why they’ve beaten Rangers 3 times this season in Glasgow and drawn and lost at home. We don’t have the players to use these tactics, we’ve tried it practically every time we go and it never works, insane ?.

[Pasquale for King]

16 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

I’d rather be second to be honest as with this management team a final means Russian roulette. At least we’d have European footy next season. Let’s be honest here folks, Levein and co are awful. How can anyone say otherwise I’ve no idea. The results speak for themselves but that aside the football is toxic 

I think we could just about swallow the dinosaur tactics if it was working and winning games, it’s not. Two seasons of poor football and losing as many goals as we score (39-39 v 35-35 so far with two trips to the OF to go) means mid table finishes.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Pasquale for King

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

17 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

What’s funny about that? Those rubbish tactically astute teams that can pass it forward and keep possession whilst being fit enough to press for 90 minutes eh, mugs. Have you seen some of the lesser lights that have beat them at Celtic Park. Aren’t we allowed to copy that, or copy the tactics we use at home against them?

Aberdeen beat them last season too, they’re set up to sit back and hit on the break as one their fans told us, probably why they’ve beaten Rangers 3 times this season in Glasgow and drawn and lost at home. We don’t have the players to use these tactics, we’ve tried it practically every time we go and it never works, insane ?.

 

Well we need to sign the players to do it and with the backbone to turn up. A guy like mikey Galloway in a relatively short hearts career scored at both parkhead and ibrox from midfield and the winner at home to rangers if I remember right. Not the greatest player but someone you could rely on turning up against the old firm

 

Lafferty similar

 

Collectively terrified we were at parkhead this season utterly embarrassing

 

 

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

Well we need to sign the players to do it and with the backbone to turn up. A guy like mikey Galloway in a relatively short hearts career scored at both parkhead and ibrox from midfield and the winner at home to rangers if I remember right. Not the greatest player but someone you could rely on turning up against the old firm

 

Lafferty similar

 

Collectively terrified we were at parkhead this season utterly embarrassing

 

 

 

 

It’s up to the manager to do that, he hasn’t. I prefer to press as it really gets the fans going home and away but I realise the players we have might not manage it on the big pitches through there. 

We definitely need more characters like the two you’ve mentioned, with a manager to match. Levein has never beaten Rangers at Tynecastle, I cant stop repeating that ?. 

[mscjambo]

Sit on the backfoot in general far too much. Invite teams to attack us and in Glasgow you just can't do that for 90 minutes, well you can if you offer pace and threat on the counter attack but we don't do that either. I am struggling to work out our game plan and style. What are we trying to do? 

 

 

[jack D and coke]

7 hours ago, NaturalOrder74 said:

Would people rather swap shoes with sevco and be out both cups but with a decent 2nd place spot or be in the semi final and be 5th not far behind the rest 

Semi finals and a final every day of the week. A euro spot is worthless to the likes of us now, pumped out Europe in July by teams you’ve never heard of. 

[JamboGraham]

8 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Levein has never beaten Rangers at Tynecastle, I cant stop repeating that ?. 

 

It's not really a very noteworthy stat to keep repeating though...in his original 4 year period in charge the EBT injected Rangers lost, on average, one away game a year. (Celtic aside).

 

This time round Rangers have only come to Tynecastle once in 18 months.

 

There are loads of frustrating stats associated with Hearts and Craig Levein's management record in particular but this particular one that you can't stop repeating is rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, JamboGraham said:

 

It's not really a very noteworthy stat to keep repeating though...in his original 4 year period in charge the EBT injected Rangers lost, on average, one away game a year. (Celtic aside).

 

This time round Rangers have only come to Tynecastle once in 18 months.

 

There are loads of frustrating stats associated with Hearts and Craig Levein's management record in particular but this particular one that you can't stop repeating is rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

Just compared to results against Celtic it is, it’s also a damning indictment of his tactics. I was there when he won his only game against them at Ibrox, can’t be bothered looking at the stats but it won’t be pretty much like his football philosophy. But as you say there’s plenty other utter failures to talk about.

[Mr Elwood P]

I'd love to have seen the state of this place if we weren't in two cup semi finals and undefeated against Hibs!

 

For a bit of perspective have a look and the home form of Aberdeen:

 

https://us.soccerway.com/matches/2019/03/16/scotland/premier-league/aberdeen-fc/livingston-fc/2796453/?ICID=HP_MS_07_04

 

Also the recent points dropped by Rangers:

 

https://us.soccerway.com/teams/scotland/rangers-fc/1899/

 

It is impossible to argue that recent league results and performances haven't even disappointing, we have missed a great opportunity to be challenging Rangers / Aberdeen for the 'best of the rest' tag. However it seems a prevalent expectation that we should be winning almost every game. Why? Celtic with a larger playing budget than Champions League semi finalists Ajax are still dropping points to teams with a fraction of the resources. We have a much smaller budget than Rangers and a slightly smaller budget than Aberdeen, both are dropping a lot of points and being frustrated by 'small teams' fighting for league survival. A quick look at the Aberdeen or Rangers forums will see the continual use of similar phrases such as 'turgid', 'unacceptable' and 'lack of creativity'. Perhaps we play in a very competitive league where small margins determine the outcome of most matches, everyone can beat everyone and the football on show is inherently a different beast from what Sky and BT continuously beam into our living rooms from England and Europe.

 

Just a brief objective interlude to the subjective ramblings.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Mr Elwood P said:

I'd love to have seen the state of this place if we weren't in two cup semi finals and undefeated against Hibs!

 

For a bit of perspective have a look and the home form of Aberdeen:

 

https://us.soccerway.com/matches/2019/03/16/scotland/premier-league/aberdeen-fc/livingston-fc/2796453/?ICID=HP_MS_07_04

 

Also the recent points dropped by Rangers:

 

https://us.soccerway.com/teams/scotland/rangers-fc/1899/

 

It is impossible to argue that recent league results and performances haven't even disappointing, we have missed a great opportunity to be challenging Rangers / Aberdeen for the 'best of the rest' tag. However it seems a prevalent expectation that we should be winning almost every game. Why? Celtic with a larger playing budget than Champions League semi finalists Ajax are still dropping points to teams with a fraction of the resources. We have a much smaller budget than Rangers and a slightly smaller budget than Aberdeen, both are dropping a lot of points and being frustrated by 'small teams' fighting for league survival. A quick look at the Aberdeen or Rangers forums will see the continual use of similar phrases such as 'turgid', 'unacceptable' and 'lack of creativity'. Perhaps we play in a very competitive league where small margins determine the outcome of most matches, everyone can beat everyone and the football on show is inherently a different beast from what Sky and BT continuously beam into our living rooms from England and Europe.

 

Just a brief objective interlude to the subjective ramblings.

 

 

Tbh, I Think it's CL 's fault Aberdeen and rangers play that way as well. 

 

It's all Craig Leveins fault. 

[Pasquale for King]

5 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

I'd love to have seen the state of this place if we weren't in two cup semi finals and undefeated against Hibs!

 

For a bit of perspective have a look and the home form of Aberdeen:

 

https://us.soccerway.com/matches/2019/03/16/scotland/premier-league/aberdeen-fc/livingston-fc/2796453/?ICID=HP_MS_07_04

 

Also the recent points dropped by Rangers:

 

https://us.soccerway.com/teams/scotland/rangers-fc/1899/

 

It is impossible to argue that recent league results and performances haven't even disappointing, we have missed a great opportunity to be challenging Rangers / Aberdeen for the 'best of the rest' tag. However it seems a prevalent expectation that we should be winning almost every game. Why? Celtic with a larger playing budget than Champions League semi finalists Ajax are still dropping points to teams with a fraction of the resources. We have a much smaller budget than Rangers and a slightly smaller budget than Aberdeen, both are dropping a lot of points and being frustrated by 'small teams' fighting for league survival. A quick look at the Aberdeen or Rangers forums will see the continual use of similar phrases such as 'turgid', 'unacceptable' and 'lack of creativity'. Perhaps we play in a very competitive league where small margins determine the outcome of most matches, everyone can beat everyone and the football on show is inherently a different beast from what Sky and BT continuously beam into our living rooms from England and Europe.

 

Just a brief objective interlude to the subjective ramblings.

Have you not just proved everyone else’s point, that fans of teams with a higher budget than the others demand more than they’re getting?  Should we just accept mediocrity? 

Unfortunately you may well see how bad this place can get after the next two Derbies and the Semi.

BTW Ajax are in the QF of the CL, they do have a similar budget to Celtic but spent £30m on players last summer and they’re success shows how bad the great unwashed are.

[Mr Elwood P]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Have you not just proved everyone else’s point, that fans of teams with a higher budget than the others demand more than they’re getting?  Should we just accept mediocrity? 

Unfortunately you may well see how bad this place can get after the next two Derbies and the Semi.

BTW Ajax are in the QF of the CL, they do have a similar budget to Celtic but spent £30m on players last summer and they’re success shows how bad the great unwashed are.

 

No, it suggests that if Rangers are playing terrible football with three times our budget then perhaps playing great football isn’t an entirely realistic goal in Scottish football. Even Celtic with a £60m wage bill are grinding out last gasp wins against crap like Dundee and Us! I think the proliferation of televised matches of an extraordinarily high quality has skewed the expectations of the Scottish football fan. Entirely the fault of Sky, BT and BBC for paying such huge sums for the English game and a pittance to us.

 

Btw it’s ‘their success’ not ‘they're success’ if we’re being pedantic.

[Pasquale for King]

16 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

No, it suggests that if Rangers are playing terrible football with three times our budget then perhaps playing great football isn’t an entirely realistic goal in Scottish football. Even Celtic with a £60m wage bill are grinding out last gasp wins against crap like Dundee and Us! I think the proliferation of televised matches of an extraordinarily high quality has skewed the expectations of the Scottish football fan. Entirely the fault of Sky, BT and BBC for paying such huge sums for the English game and a pittance to us.

 

Btw it’s ‘their success’ not ‘they're success’ if we’re being pedantic.

Sorry for the typo, silly big fingers. You make some fair points. In Celtics case they will see a huge difference in Lennons style compared to Rodgers, who at least attempted to play football even on the rare occasion it didn’t work. I think there’s a correlation between Rangers,Aberdeen and us which is who is picking the team. One inexperienced guy, two others who prefer defensive styles but the guy up the road has the players to succeed with it and therefore the fans accept it to an extent.

[Mr Elwood P]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Sorry for the typo, silly big fingers. You make some fair points. In Celtics case they will see a huge difference in Lennons style compared to Rodgers, who at least attempted to play football even on the rare occasion it didn’t work. I think there’s a correlation between Rangers,Aberdeen and us which is who is picking the team. One inexperienced guy, two others who prefer defensive styles but the guy up the road has the players to succeed with it and therefore the fans accept it to an extent.

 

I really don't think there is much at all between ourselves and Aberdeen. Assuming the most likely outcome of the Scottish Cup being a Hearts v Celtic final with a Celtic win we would have identical cup records and we currently sit with one win each over the head to head league matches. With Naismith and Smith fit we would be ahead of them in the league just now. I've said it before but it's not just the prolonged periods of injury that have effected us but key players having surgery and not being 100% when they've returned. The current squad experiencing a normal season injury wise would be close to Rangers. We have been incredibly unlucky with injuries and also recently with last minute goals and / or personal mistakes. Pre Hamilton I thought we were maybe going to go on a decent run of results but unfortunately not. A win against Aberdeen on March 30th sets up an interesting end to the season in both league and Scottish Cup, contrasted with Hibs and Rangers who have little to play for we remain in a decent position.

[Pasquale for King]

12 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

I really don't think there is much at all between ourselves and Aberdeen. Assuming the most likely outcome of the Scottish Cup being a Hearts v Celtic final with a Celtic win we would have identical cup records and we currently sit with one win each over the head to head league matches. With Naismith and Smith fit we would be ahead of them in the league just now. I've said it before but it's not just the prolonged periods of injury that have effected us but key players having surgery and not being 100% when they've returned. The current squad experiencing a normal season injury wise would be close to Rangers. We have been incredibly unlucky with injuries and also recently with last minute goals and / or personal mistakes. Pre Hamilton I thought we were maybe going to go on a decent run of results but unfortunately not. A win against Aberdeen on March 30th sets up an interesting end to the season in both league and Scottish Cup, contrasted with Hibs and Rangers who have little to play for we remain in a decent position.

Can’t argue with most of that, Aberdeen have lost key players too though. We haven’t had a normal injury season since we came out of administration, 42 out of 43 players missed games last season. As performances haven’t really improved you have to question why they were rushed back instead of waiting until they were 100%, we signed 20 players but the management still haven’t found a solution to our form.

The difference between us and Aberdeen is they have players to play the system they use. 

[Mr Elwood P]

7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Can’t argue with most of that, Aberdeen have lost key players too though. We haven’t had a normal injury season since we came out of administration, 42 out of 43 players missed games last season. As performances haven’t really improved you have to question why they were rushed back instead of waiting until they were 100%, we signed 20 players but the management still haven’t found a solution to our form.

The difference between us and Aberdeen is they have players to play the system they use. 

 

Agree with perhaps rushing players back too quickly but Aberdeen haven't won any of their last 6 home games which suggests they are struggling just as much. I think a lot of the frustration comes from us having had a run of very winnable games and making a mess of it. Even if we had avoided conceding the last minute goals against Motherwell and Celtic we would be sitting 3 points away from Aberdeen. Quite happy that all the luck we have got this season seems to be concentrated in our Scottish Cup run. Hopefully we have the mental advantage over ICT after the 5-0 win in July!

[Pasquale for King]

32 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Agree with perhaps rushing players back too quickly but Aberdeen haven't won any of their last 6 home games which suggests they are struggling just as much. I think a lot of the frustration comes from us having had a run of very winnable games and making a mess of it. Even if we had avoided conceding the last minute goals against Motherwell and Celtic we would be sitting 3 points away from Aberdeen. Quite happy that all the luck we have got this season seems to be concentrated in our Scottish Cup run. Hopefully we have the mental advantage over ICT after the 5-0 win in July!

As I said and the Aberdeen fan on here agreed that they are set up to defend deep and hit quickly on the break, hence the poor home form. It’s served them well with 3 wins and a draw in Glasgow this season out of 5 visits, that might be better than Leveins career totals.

Yes if we had taken even a few more points from the bottom 6 teams we would be pushing Rangers, only Hibs and St Johnstone have failed to beat us this season. Robbo did say he didnt want to play us because of that result, we are a different animal away from

Tynie.

[Mr Elwood P]

12 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

As I said and the Aberdeen fan on here agreed that they are set up to defend deep and hit quickly on the break, hence the poor home form. It’s served them well with 3 wins and a draw in Glasgow this season out of 5 visits, that might be better than Leveins career totals.

Yes if we had taken even a few more points from the bottom 6 teams we would be pushing Rangers, only Hibs and St Johnstone have failed to beat us this season. Robbo did say he didnt want to play us because of that result, we are a different animal away from

Tynie.

 

Over the last two seasons Levein has 2 wins against Celtic, one being a 4-0 humiliation to end their 69 game unbeaten run. Derek McInnes has managed 1. That win was a flukey 0-1 win that I’m reliably informed the Celtic players didn’t even attempt to win. Conveniently that Celtic loss to Aberdeen  cost Rangers 2nd place and the subsequently increased prize money and advanced Europa League qualification.

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Over the last two seasons Levein has 2 wins against Celtic, one being a 4-0 humiliation to end their 69 game unbeaten run. Derek McInnes has managed 1. That win was a flukey 0-1 win that I’m reliably informed the Celtic players didn’t even attempt to win. Conveniently that Celtic loss to Aberdeen  cost Rangers 2nd place and the subsequently increased prize money and advanced Europa League qualification.

That’s a big accusation, considering the controversy through the match it seemed they did try and a draw would’ve sufficed. Aberdeen have won and drawn against them in Glasgow, out two wonderful wins were at home and we’ve been hunped twice by them this season ,with possibly another two games to play them in Glasgow. 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Pasquale for King

[RedCity]

21 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Over the last two seasons Levein has 2 wins against Celtic, one being a 4-0 humiliation to end their 69 game unbeaten run. Derek McInnes has managed 1. That win was a flukey 0-1 win that I’m reliably informed the Celtic players didn’t even attempt to win. Conveniently that Celtic loss to Aberdeen  cost Rangers 2nd place and the subsequently increased prize money and advanced Europa League qualification.

 

If you think Celtic didn't try that day you obviously didn't watch the game. Joe Lewis was MOTM. Brown and Shinnie kicked lumps out of each other and tempers were flaring everywhere. We had to defend desperately for the last 20 minutes and we somehow kept them out. Logan sent off after the game. Lots of bad blood on the park that day.

 

Remember that is the only domestic game Rodgers ever lost at Parkhead that was a very proud record they had no way did they willingly give it up. We rode our luck on the day and won. It happens occasionally.

 

i agree with a lot of the comments that all teams are struggling to a degree not just Hearts or Aberdeen. We've been poor at home but excellent away. I have hope for the semi against Celtic (especially with Lennon in charge) as our players don't seem to fear playing in Glasgow now. Below are our last 7 results in Glasgow:-

 

Celtic 0-1 (Win) League.

Celtic 0-1 (Loss) League.

Rangers 0-1 (Win) League Cup Semi.

Celtic 0-1 (Loss) League Cup Final.

Rangers 0-1 (Win) League.

Celtic 0-0 (Draw) League.

Rangers 0-2 (Win) Scottish Cup.

 

4 wins, 2 defeats and 1 draw scored 5 conceded 2. Gives us confidence but Celtic are notoriously difficult to beat at Hampden. But I'd rather play them in the semis than in the final when they are going for the record treble treble.

 

Now we just need to work out how to beat Hamilton, St Mirren and Livi at home again as we appear to have forgotten how to do it.

 

[Mr Elwood P]

9 hours ago, RedCity said:

 

If you think Celtic didn't try that day you obviously didn't watch the game. Joe Lewis was MOTM. Brown and Shinnie kicked lumps out of each other and tempers were flaring everywhere. We had to defend desperately for the last 20 minutes and we somehow kept them out. Logan sent off after the game. Lots of bad blood on the park that day.

 

Remember that is the only domestic game Rodgers ever lost at Parkhead that was a very proud record they had no way did they willingly give it up. We rode our luck on the day and won. It happens occasionally.

 

i agree with a lot of the comments that all teams are struggling to a degree not just Hearts or Aberdeen. We've been poor at home but excellent away. I have hope for the semi against Celtic (especially with Lennon in charge) as our players don't seem to fear playing in Glasgow now. Below are our last 7 results in Glasgow:-

 

Celtic 0-1 (Win) League.

Celtic 0-1 (Loss) League.

Rangers 0-1 (Win) League Cup Semi.

Celtic 0-1 (Loss) League Cup Final.

Rangers 0-1 (Win) League.

Celtic 0-0 (Draw) League.

Rangers 0-2 (Win) Scottish Cup.

 

4 wins, 2 defeats and 1 draw scored 5 conceded 2. Gives us confidence but Celtic are notoriously difficult to beat at Hampden. But I'd rather play them in the semis than in the final when they are going for the record treble treble.

 

Now we just need to work out how to beat Hamilton, St Mirren and Livi at home again as we appear to have forgotten how to do it.

 

 

I didn't but the account came from a Celtic fan who said he knew that Celtic were never winning that game after 5 mins. What was Derek McInnes record against Celtic prior to that game? Sure it was along the lines of P12 L12 GF 0 GA 50.

[Mr Elwood P]

10 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

That’s a big accusation, considering the controversy through the match it seemed they did try and a draw would’ve sufficed. Aberdeen have won and drawn against them in Glasgow, out two wonderful wins were at home and we’ve been hunped twice by them this season ,with possibly another two games to play them in Glasgow. 

 

We can only say a draw would suffice in hindsight. All the games kicked off simultaneously so a Rangers victory would have required a Celtic loss. Very obliging of them. That one game when Rangers were the direct loser of a Celtic defeat is the only game they have lost at Parkhead in years. Most Celtic fans I know are sure they didn't to win.

[Locky]

Are people actually picking holes in Levein's record away at the OF? I'm sure you could look at any managers record through there and I doubt it'd be pretty reading.

[Pasquale for King]

5 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

I didn't but the account came from a Celtic fan who said he knew that Celtic were never winning that game after 5 mins. What was Derek McInnes record against Celtic prior to that game? Sure it was along the lines of P12 L12 GF 0 GA 50.

So pure speculation then. Not sure about goals for and against.

Cant find the stats for Levein. Just for the record I don’t rate Mcinnes as a manager, he is better than ours though because he’s set up just as defensively but is far better on the break than we are. He’s won trophies in his career and been to other finals too.

 

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, Locky said:

Are people actually picking holes in Levein's record away at the OF? I'm sure you could look at any managers record through there and I doubt it'd be pretty reading.

One win ever? How about his record at home having never beating Rangers?

The point is that especially at Celtic Park we have for years sat back and been convincing beaten, we tried to press them one time,a pumped up team one month after taking their unbeaten record, were leading 3 nil at HT, we kept pressing and ended up losing 3:1. The last time we went we sat back and got pumped 5 nil and he said it was the wrong tactics, even he agrees with that ffs.

[Pasquale for King]

5 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

We can only say a draw would suffice in hindsight. All the games kicked off simultaneously so a Rangers victory would have required a Celtic loss. Very obliging of them. That one game when Rangers were the direct loser of a Celtic defeat is the only game they have lost at Parkhead in years. Most Celtic fans I know are sure they didn't to win.

Indeed and I’m sure they were well aware that Rangers were getting beat. As I said before the battles during the game and after don’t seem to indicate the Celtic players weren’t trying. It’s still all conjecture and nobody says Celtic were knackered and the pressure of the unbeaten run was weighing them down, when we spanked them (did we score 4 in any other game last season). 

 

[Locky]

15 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

One win ever? How about his record at home having never beating Rangers?

The point is that especially at Celtic Park we have for years sat back and been convincing beaten, we tried to press them one time,a pumped up team one month after taking their unbeaten record, were leading 3 nil at HT, we kept pressing and ended up losing 3:1. The last time we went we sat back and got pumped 5 nil and he said it was the wrong tactics, even he agrees with that ffs.

To be fair to him, we've only played Rangers once at Tynie since he came back. Our record against the OF away from home has been shocking for years, Levein is only a small part of that problem.

[Mr Elwood P]

22 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

So pure speculation then. Not sure about goals for and against.

Cant find the stats for Levein. Just for the record I don’t rate Mcinnes as a manager, he is better than ours though because he’s set up just as defensively but is far better on the break than we are. He’s won trophies in his career and been to other finals too.

 

 

Obviously it is pure speculation! If  evidence existed that Celtic had lost a match on purpose to directly cause Rangers financial loss it would be the biggest story in Scottish football history. What information does the table relate to?

 

14 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Indeed and I’m sure they were well aware that Rangers were getting beat. As I said before the battles during the game and after don’t seem to indicate the Celtic players weren’t trying. It’s still all conjecture and nobody says Celtic were knackered and the pressure of the unbeaten run was weighing them down, when we spanked them (did we score 4 in any other game last season). 

 

 

Quite easy to kick a team off the park and not try and win simultaneously. 

[Jodami]

Intriguing how some posters disappear for a few days after games and then reappear when things have quietened down. I don't agree with their opinions but once again I compliment To Be Frank and Artful Dodger for doing the weekend heavy lifting in their absence. 

[Pasquale for King]

45 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Obviously it is pure speculation! If  evidence existed that Celtic had lost a match on purpose to directly cause Rangers financial loss it would be the biggest story in Scottish football history. What information does the table relate to?

 

 

Quite easy to kick a team off the park and not try and win simultaneously. 

The table relates to your assertion that Mcinnes record against Celtic was played 12 lost 12 and not scored whilst losing 50.

As for Celtic costing Rangers money they lost £234k in prize money, started in Europe one round earlier where they had over 49k attend so they probably made money from it.

[Mr Elwood P]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

The table relates to your assertion that Mcinnes record against Celtic was played 12 lost 12 and not scored whilst losing 50.

As for Celtic costing Rangers money they lost £234k in prize money, started in Europe one round earlier where they had over 49k attend so they probably made money from it.

 

https://us.soccerway.com/matches/2019/03/09/scotland/premier-league/celtic-fc/aberdeen-fc/2796445/head2head/

 

That's an easier source to use if you want to demonstrate a head to head success or failure rate.

 

1 win from the last 15.

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

https://us.soccerway.com/matches/2019/03/09/scotland/premier-league/celtic-fc/aberdeen-fc/2796445/head2head/

 

That's an easier source to use if you want to demonstrate a head to head success or failure rate.

 

1 win from the last 15.

Thanks, it was you that wants to use a truncated version to prove your point, I prefer the whole set of results.

[RedCity]

6 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

I didn't but the account came from a Celtic fan who said he knew that Celtic were never winning that game after 5 mins. What was Derek McInnes record against Celtic prior to that game? Sure it was along the lines of P12 L12 GF 0 GA 50.

 

No. McInnes has beaten both Celtic and Rangers 5 times each as Aberdeen manager. He has won at Parkhead twice and at Ibrox 3 times. He has also beaten Rangers at Hampden.

 

I doubt there is another non old firm club / manager that can match that record in the same period of time. Kilmarnock have done well against both recently to be fair but they don't have 10 wins combined against them in the last 5 years. Yes we've had a lot of defeats to Celtic but at the end of the day who hasn't? They regularly beat everyone. 

 

What our recent results against both bigot brothers show is that our current team is more than capable of getting results in Glasgow and being very competitive against both. Whether we can do it next month against Celtic at Hampden is another matter but the players have proved this season that they don't  bottle in in Glasgow. If we lose it will purely because we (as expected) lost to a better team.

[Mr Elwood P]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Thanks, it was you that wants to use a truncated version to prove your point, I prefer the whole set of results.

 

Cool check the comparable results of Hearts v Celtic and Aberdeen v Celtic since 1874 and get back to me then.

[Mr Elwood P]

1 minute ago, RedCity said:

 

No. McInnes has beaten both Celtic and Rangers 5 times each as Aberdeen manager. He has won at Parkhead twice and at Ibrox 3 times. He has also beaten Rangers at Hampden.

 

I doubt there is another non old firm club / manager that can match that record in the same period of time. Kilmarnock have done well against both recently to be fair but they don't have 10 wins combined against them in the last 5 years. Yes we've had a lot of defeats to Celtic but at the end of the day who hasn't? They regularly beat everyone. 

 

What our recent results against both bigot brothers show is that our current team is more than capable of getting results in Glasgow and being very competitive against both. Whether we can do it next month against Celtic at Hampden is another matter but the players have proved this season that they don't  bottle in in Glasgow. If we lose it will purely because we (as expected) lost to a better team.

 

I was talking about the McInnes v Rodgers period which I believe was P13 L12 W1?

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Cool check the comparable results of Hearts v Celtic and Aberdeen v Celtic since 1874 and get back to me then.

We were discussing Mcinnes and Levein, not the clubs history.

I’m surprised the mods haven’t been onto you about that wild speculation earlier in the thread, considering how I was dealt with when taking about why Jack Ross left or the medical team. No grasses on this thread thankfully. Probably best to leave it there.

[Mr Elwood P]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

We were discussing Mcinnes and Levein, not the clubs history.

I’m surprised the mods haven’t been onto you about that wild speculation earlier in the thread, considering how I was dealt with when taking about why Jack Ross left or the medical team. No grasses on this thread thankfully. Probably best to leave it there.

 

If wild speculation was grounds for being banned or reprimanded this place would have been shut down years ago!

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

If wild speculation was grounds for being banned or reprimanded this place would have been shut down years ago!

Slander apparently, I’ve deleted the messages I received or I wouldve shown you them.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Pasquale for King

[Mr Elwood P]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Slander apparently ?

 

Would be safe then, slander is English law; defamation would be a different matter. However the defence of truth may be applicable! Maybe it will come out in an autobiography in years to come, as per St Lie Down.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Mr Elwood P