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soonbe110

It’s not just Levein and Hearts

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soonbe110

Whilst accepting that our form and results have been unacceptable since our injury crisis abated it’s not just us that’s in the midst of a crazy and baffling run. 

At the winter break Aberdeen, Killie, us and St.Johnstone were comfortably in positions 3-6 in the league, looking certainties to finish top 6 and with two or three of the four having reasonable hopes of catching Rangers for second. Since the league fixtures re-started at end January we have Aberdeen, Killie and us all with 2 wins out of 9, Saints with 1 win out of 9. Seems remarkably odd but certainly shows the missed opportunity for all four clubs. 

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upgotheheads

Close this thread Mods! A sense of perspective has appeared.

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Tommy Brown
2 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

Close this thread Mods! A sense of perspective has appeared.

:lol:

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Deevers

All very true, however the question now is how do we take ourselves forward and improve. I think, like most folk, I was completely disheartened by yesterday’s performance.  There seemed to be absolutely no passion, no motivation or will to win about the team. That’s a worry,and something that has to be addressed.

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1971fozzy

I had more entertainment driving through the most horrendous rain on the M8 to the game yesterday  than actually watching it when I got there.

therein lies the problem. It’s eye bleeding crap that is utterly painful to watch.

 

aberdeen have hit a bad patch at home , yes but they were well behind us and are now looking pretty much uncatchable now. Their away form is very good indeed. Also they win in Glasgow. Something that we are incapable of doing . We play rangers away soon and I’d be shell shocked if it’s not at least a 3 goal defeat.

 

killie and st Johnstone operate with average home crowds of only 2-4000 so it’s arguable that with their income they were doing better than they’d be expected. Our income and wage budgets dwarf these clubs I’d of thought.

 

 

 

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soonbe110
6 minutes ago, Deevers said:

All very true, however the question now is how do we take ourselves forward and improve. I think, like most folk, I was completely disheartened by yesterday’s performance.  There seemed to be absolutely no passion, no motivation or will to win about the team. That’s a worry,and something that has to be addressed.

Agreed. Hopefully knackered after Tuesday. Shouldn’t have been but anything else is unacceptable 

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Ibrahim Tall

The league in general is shit this year, we've been awful since November yet we're still not a million miles off 2nd place(or even Celtic).

 

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soonbe110
5 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

I had more entertainment driving through the most horrendous rain on the M8 to the game yesterday  than actually watching it when I got there.

therein lies the problem. It’s eye bleeding crap that is utterly painful to watch.

 

aberdeen have hit a bad patch at home , yes but they were well behind us and are now looking pretty much uncatchable now. Their away form is very good indeed. Also they win in Glasgow. Something that we are incapable of doing . We play rangers away soon and I’d be shell shocked if it’s not at least a 3 goal defeat.

 

killie and st Johnstone operate with average home crowds of only 2-4000 so it’s arguable that with their income they were doing better than they’d be expected. Our income and wage budgets dwarf these clubs I’d of thought.

 

 

 

Yes money drives results right enough!!! That’s why big spending Wolves beat United last night and mega billionaires Swansea had to be cheated out of victory against City. It’s 11 v 11 and that’s bodies not millions or billions. 

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1971fozzy
1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

Yes money drives results right enough!!! That’s why big spending Wolves beat United last night and mega billionaires Swansea had to be cheated out of victory against City. It’s 11 v 11 and that’s bodies not millions or billions. 

 

One off cup games are very different to a run of league games. Especially in England.

 

I wasn’t really disagreeing with what you said by the way. 

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skinnybob72

St Mirren, Dundee and Hamilton have won 15 games between them this season - we have contributed 3 to that tally.

 

We have also lost 5-0 and drawn twice at home to Livingston - a team who were in League 1 two years ago. That's 16 points dropped in games that, if we performed to a reasonable level, we should be looking to pick up maximum points from. That's why we are scrubbing around in 5th place and not looking good in second place. The good wins that we have picked up, ie Celtic at home, twice at Killie, Easter Road, etc have been cancelled out by shocking results elsewhere.

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soonbe110
Just now, skinnybob72 said:

St Mirren, Dundee and Hamilton have won 15 games between them this season - we have contributed 3 to that tally.

 

We have also lost 5-0 and drawn twice at home to Livingston - a team who were in League 1 two years ago. That's 16 points dropped in games that, if we performed to a reasonable level, we should be looking to pick up maximum points from. That's why we are scrubbing around in 5th place and not looking good in second place. The good wins that we have picked up, ie Celtic at home, twice at Killie, Easter Road, etc have been cancelled out by shocking results elsewhere.

Every other club in top six other than Celtic could say the same. 

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skinnybob72
1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

Every other club in top six other than Celtic could say the same. 

The same as in they have all lost to ALL of the bottom 3 teams in the league? 

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Southpaw

It is just not the poor run of results against the teams that on paper we should be winning. It is the lack of playing style, fight and determination. The lack of a playing style and the lack of entertainment. Yes I know the quote "if you want entertainment go to the cinema" or something like that. The continual change of system and players not knowing if they are coming or going. Our fairly poor record of signings, but for me, IMO, is that Levein plays football not to lose, whereas most, if not all other teams play to try and win. L

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ri Alban
46 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Whilst accepting that our form and results have been unacceptable since our injury crisis abated it’s not just us that’s in the midst of a crazy and baffling run. 

At the winter break Aberdeen, Killie, us and St.Johnstone were comfortably in positions 3-6 in the league, looking certainties to finish top 6 and with two or three of the four having reasonable hopes of catching Rangers for second. Since the league fixtures re-started at end January we have Aberdeen, Killie and us all with 2 wins out of 9, Saints with 1 win out of 9. Seems remarkably odd but certainly shows the missed opportunity for all four clubs. 

Aberdeen went to Glasgow twice in a week and Killie went yesterday. Unbeaten. When we last went, we couldn't even beat Partick Thistle.

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Victorian

It's been a disjointed league alright.    Hearts,  Aberdeen,  Kilmarmock,  Hibs,  St.Johnstone,  Motherwell have all had really good runs and terrible runs.    Even Rangers have had similar ups and downs.    More than half the league.     The teams in the higher finishing positions will basically be the ones who have minimised the damage of the inconsistent runs.    

 

We'll probably finish 5th or 6th now and it probably reflects exactly where we deserve to be.     We've lost points in a variety of ways.     We haven't been able to win many points we had no right to.   

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Jambof3tornado

Its another season of what could have been. We should have split the old firm. We should be much closer to celtic. We have massively underperformed.

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soonbe110
27 minutes ago, skinnybob72 said:

The same as in they have all lost to ALL of the bottom 3 teams in the league? 

No, missed opportunities in games they are expected to win. 

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soonbe110
12 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Aberdeen went to Glasgow twice in a week and Killie went yesterday. Unbeaten. When we last went, we couldn't even beat Partick Thistle.

We were unbeaten last time in Glasgow though 

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soonbe110
22 minutes ago, Southpaw said:

It is just not the poor run of results against the teams that on paper we should be winning. It is the lack of playing style, fight and determination. The lack of a playing style and the lack of entertainment. Yes I know the quote "if you want entertainment go to the cinema" or something like that. The continual change of system and players not knowing if they are coming or going. Our fairly poor record of signings, but for me, IMO, is that Levein plays football not to lose, whereas most, if not all other teams play to try and win. L

He started yesterdays away game with two wingers. Is that playing not to lose? Was working ok until they scored. Only one team looking like scoring at that point. Rest of game was admittedly dire. 

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Deevers
2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

He started yesterdays away game with two wingers. Is that playing not to lose? Was working ok until they scored. Only one team looking like scoring at that point. Rest of game was admittedly dire. 

The second half was dreadful. If Hearts are going to do anything at all we ha e to go to place like Hamilton looking,  infact expecting to win.  Everything we did yesterday was feeble and tentative. The players on the park yesterday looked as if they had no winning mentality whatsoever. That is unacceptable in any  Hearts team in my book.

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GorgieRules22

I’m not interested in other clubs just Hearts.

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Cade

"Everybody else around us in the league is also pish right now so that's an excuse we can hide behind for being pish"

 

:vrface:

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thegreatsd

It’s a good point made in the original post. It’s a tough league we are in and there are no easy games at all. We struggle against teams that set up to defend against us especially when we are set up with a bit of caution as well. If we were a bit more adventurous at times away from home we would do better. I think we play our best football against the better teams in our league and we will do ok after the split.

 

It’s been a tough season and we were probably spoiled with an exceptional start we had. That does show what we are capable of though and if we can play an unsettled side and get that winning habit and belief back we have the basis of a solid talented side. 

 

Ive seen some posts about Berra being finished, getting levein out and loads of other rash comments which are understandable considering recent results. It’s also frustrating knowing other teams round us are also slipping up constantly too but I suppose that is down to the fact it is a tough league and everyone is capable of beating each other on their day. We haven’t exactly had much luck either this season with injuries and decisions which have without a doubt had a huge impact. 

 

The big picture is looking at two semis, a potential final or better, stadium almost paid, good crowds, a good team, a good hearts man and lady running the show and still places to fight for the rest of the season in the league. 

 

I think this season has been about building and we will see further improvements next season. It has certainly been a tough time since the injuries and our managers health scare. I’ve been watching for about 40 years and I have seen way worse than this in my time. Perhaps I’m getting older and softer but I just enjoy going and watching with my even longer suffering dad who assured me he has see way worse than I’ve ever seen!

 

let do our jobs and get behind what we’ve got just now as we are not far away and a few additions to a strong spine will make that bit of difference between winning and losing. 

 

Apologies for rambling on! Mon the jt’s !!

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WageThief
9 minutes ago, GorgieRules22 said:

I’m not interested in other clubs just Hearts.

 

You are by definition interested in other clubs.  As long as Clarke is Kilmarnock boss the Hearts boss will have a tougher job on his hands.  If both Clarke and McInnes leave at the end of this season and are replaced by my mum and Teresa May then we'll be much better off next season.

 

Our league position is dictated by the performance of other teams as much as our own.

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wavydavy
1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Whilst accepting that our form and results have been unacceptable since our injury crisis abated it’s not just us that’s in the midst of a crazy and baffling run. 

At the winter break Aberdeen, Killie, us and St.Johnstone were comfortably in positions 3-6 in the league, looking certainties to finish top 6 and with two or three of the four having reasonable hopes of catching Rangers for second. Since the league fixtures re-started at end January we have Aberdeen, Killie and us all with 2 wins out of 9, Saints with 1 win out of 9. Seems remarkably odd but certainly shows the missed opportunity for all four clubs. 

 

Hibs are only two points behind us now and it's not so long ago on here that they were being slated and doomed to the bottom six.

 

Our next league game is Rangers at Ibrox and we all know how we usually perform there so unlikely to pick up any points. Then it is Hibs at Tynecastle and if our current form continues then I would not be hopefull of picking up more than one point.

 

If we lose both these games then our next match is the Semi v Inverness and if the heads are down then we will struggle to beat them.

 

Our only saving grace is that Motherwell who sit in 7th place are 7 points behind us so it would be a tall oreder for them to pip us for 6th place before the split.

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Sir Gio
30 minutes ago, GorgieRules22 said:

I’m not interested in other clubs just Hearts.

Indeed. In fact it only serves to add to the frustration we can't capitalise on every other team being so ordinary with a huge head start 

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wavydavy
11 minutes ago, thegreatsd said:

It’s a good point made in the original post. It’s a tough league we are in and there are no easy games at all. We struggle against teams that set up to defend against us especially when we are set up with a bit of caution as well. If we were a bit more adventurous at times away from home we would do better. I think we play our best football against the better teams in our league and we will do ok after the split.

 

It’s been a tough season and we were probably spoiled with an exceptional start we had. That does show what we are capable of though and if we can play an unsettled side and get that winning habit and belief back we have the basis of a solid talented side. 

 

Ive seen some posts about Berra being finished, getting levein out and loads of other rash comments which are understandable considering recent results. It’s also frustrating knowing other teams round us are also slipping up constantly too but I suppose that is down to the fact it is a tough league and everyone is capable of beating each other on their day. We haven’t exactly had much luck either this season with injuries and decisions which have without a doubt had a huge impact. 

 

The big picture is looking at two semis, a potential final or better, stadium almost paid, good crowds, a good team, a good hearts man and lady running the show and still places to fight for the rest of the season in the league. 

 

I think this season has been about building and we will see further improvements next season. It has certainly been a tough time since the injuries and our managers health scare. I’ve been watching for about 40 years and I have seen way worse than this in my time. Perhaps I’m getting older and softer but I just enjoy going and watching with my even longer suffering dad who assured me he has see way worse than I’ve ever seen!

 

let do our jobs and get behind what we’ve got just now as we are not far away and a few additions to a strong spine will make that bit of difference between winning and losing. 

 

Apologies for rambling on! Mon the jt’s !!

 

The bit I have highlighted shows that we are devoid of ideas as to how to open defensive minded teams. Yet CL says he is happy with our midfield!!

 

Recently he has said that if he can extend the contracts of certain players then he only needs 2/3 flair players.

 

CL does not know how to play against these sort of teams his answer to everything is hoof the ball up the park to the big striker.

 

We get the odd great performance when we close teams down such as Celtic at home but other than that when teams sit in we have no idea how to open them up.

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WageThief
53 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Aberdeen went to Glasgow twice in a week and Killie went yesterday. Unbeaten. When we last went, we couldn't even beat Partick Thistle.

 

Aberdeen couldn't beat Livingston at home yesterday after having beaten Rangers in Glasgow after they got a point at Parkhead.  The same Aberdeen couldn't beat St Mirren at home and GOT BEAT 2-0 from Hamilton (HAMILTON?!) at HOME!  Not surprising though after the same Aberdeen team couldn't beat Stenhousemuir at home in January.

 

Steve Clarke's attacking Kilmarnock side have scored 5 goals since February started.  3 of those goals had come by February 6th.  Since then Kilmarnock have scored 2 goals.  They went over a month without scoring, getting pumped out the Scottish Cup 5-0 by the old King's tribute act.  They managed to lose at Livingston, draw 0-0 at home with Motherwell, and even shipped two goals at home to Levein's eye-bleeding travelling defensive roadshow.

 

 

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portobellojambo1
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Hibs are only two points behind us now and it's not so long ago on here that they were being slated and doomed to the bottom six.

 

Our next league game is Rangers at Ibrox and we all know how we usually perform there so unlikely to pick up any points. Then it is Hibs at Tynecastle and if our current form continues then I would not be hopefull of picking up more than one point.

 

If we lose both these games then our next match is the Semi v Inverness and if the heads are down then we will struggle to beat them.

 

Our only saving grace is that Motherwell who sit in 7th place are 7 points behind us so it would be a tall oreder for them to pip us for 6th place before the split.

 

I don't disagree with anything you've said above but our next league game is actually against Aberdeen on 30 March, before heading to Ibrox and finishing off the pre split fixtures versus Hibs. As you say the only saing grace is that in their three remaining games it will be difficult, but not impossible for Motherwell to get above us if we continue to play as poorly as we are. Their three remaining pre split fixtures are home to St Johnstone and Rangers and away to Aberdeen. As you say it would be a tall order for them, but not impossible.

Edited by portobellojambo1

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Gambo

Everything is alright then because other clubs are poor?

 

That makes us languishing in 5th even worse.

 

One of the poorest excuses out there.

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soonbe110
12 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Hibs are only two points behind us now and it's not so long ago on here that they were being slated and doomed to the bottom six.

 

Our next league game is Rangers at Ibrox and we all know how we usually perform there so unlikely to pick up any points. Then it is Hibs at Tynecastle and if our current form continues then I would not be hopefull of picking up more than one point.

 

If we lose both these games then our next match is the Semi v Inverness and if the heads are down then we will struggle to beat them.

 

Our only saving grace is that Motherwell who sit in 7th place are 7 points behind us so it would be a tall oreder for them to pip us for 6th place before the split.

Next league game is Aberdeen at home I think 

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soonbe110
7 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

The bit I have highlighted shows that we are devoid of ideas as to how to open defensive minded teams. Yet CL says he is happy with our midfield!!

 

Recently he has said that if he can extend the contracts of certain players then he only needs 2/3 flair players.

 

CL does not know how to play against these sort of teams his answer to everything is hoof the ball up the park to the big striker.

 

We get the odd great performance when we close teams down such as Celtic at home but other than that when teams sit in we have no idea how to open them up.

Think he just said we need to add two or three creative players

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NANOJAMBO
47 minutes ago, Deevers said:

The second half was dreadful. If Hearts are going to do anything at all we ha e to go to place like Hamilton looking,  infact expecting to win.  Everything we did yesterday was feeble and tentative. The players on the park yesterday looked as if they had no winning mentality whatsoever. That is unacceptable in any  Hearts team in my book.

My take on it, not for the first time, is the players are doing what they are told and are comfortable doing that. The coaches can see the players are doing what they are told but not one of the coaches has a clue how to change things for the better.  I was struck by how after the rugby, Finn Russell was asked what was said in the Scottish dressing room at HT, what did Townsend say to get them going. He said he had an argument with Townsend and criticised his tactics.  I don't belive any of the coaches has the balls to stand up and say anything to Levein and there was a moment yesterday  which I mentioned on the match thread where CL looked at the coches - McCann said/did nothing and the other (Fox?) blew his cheeks out and basically shrugged his shoulders. That's what is running the club these days. 

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SwindonJambo
3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Next league game is Aberdeen at home I think 

 

Correct. We finish the pre spilt fixtures with Aberdeen at home (who are excellent at home), Huns Away midweek and finishing with Hibs at home. I think we’re good to scrape into the Top 6 but I shudder to imagine how many points we’ll get out of that lot. Could be as low as 1. I would expect no less than to be right up for it v Hibs but the other 2 are tricky to say the least.

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portobellojambo1
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Everything is alright then because other clubs are poor?

 

That makes us languishing in 5th even worse.

 

One of the poorest excuses out there.

 

Correct

Edited by portobellojambo1

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Debut 4

What’s other teams form got to do with ours? 

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soonbe110
8 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Everything is alright then because other clubs are poor?

 

That makes us languishing in 5th even worse.

 

One of the poorest excuses out there.

No, I was just pointing out that all top 6 clubs, other than Celtic, are on similar runs. Probably due to 11 clubs in the league all being of a similar standard at the moment due to injuries, suspension, individual loss of form, etc  Certainly recent results across the league suggest every game, except the one involving Celtic, is a lottery. 

Huge missed opportunity and disappointment for us. Most other clubs fans could say the same though 

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soonbe110
2 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

What’s other teams form got to do with ours? 

Quite a lot when we are playing against them 

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portobellojambo1
2 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

What’s other teams form got to do with ours? 

 

I think the terminology for such an outlook is deflection.

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Debut 4
Just now, portobellojambo1 said:

 

I think the terminology for such an outlook is deflection.

Yes, felt it was verging on some bizarre comfort blanket...”other teams are poor just like ourselves so it’s ok”...

 

 

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1971fozzy
1 hour ago, Deevers said:

The second half was dreadful. If Hearts are going to do anything at all we ha e to go to place like Hamilton looking,  infact expecting to win.  Everything we did yesterday was feeble and tentative. The players on the park yesterday looked as if they had no winning mentality whatsoever. That is unacceptable in any  Hearts team in my book.

 

Indeed. And very worryingly Levein said the 2nd half we were better. Fek me not from where I was sitting we weren’t. 

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portobellojambo1
Just now, 1971fozzy said:

 

Indeed. And very worryingly Levein said the 2nd half we were better. Fek me not from where I was sitting we weren’t. 

 

Yes, I read that somewhere and the only conclusion I was able to come to was it was a typing error. First half we were poor, second half the only word that covers it honestly is garbage

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Fozzyonthefence
1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Yes money drives results right enough!!! That’s why big spending Wolves beat United last night and mega billionaires Swansea had to be cheated out of victory against City. It’s 11 v 11 and that’s bodies not millions or billions. 

 

Your sarcasm doesn’t really work as Wolves have been big spending, they spent loads to win the Championship.

 

Are you seriously suggesting money doesn’t drive results?!  There’s another reason Man City are the best team in England, Bayern in Germany, Real and Barca in Spain, Celtic in Scotland, etc?

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jambali
2 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Whilst accepting that our form and results have been unacceptable since our injury crisis abated it’s not just us that’s in the midst of a crazy and baffling run. 

At the winter break Aberdeen, Killie, us and St.Johnstone were comfortably in positions 3-6 in the league, looking certainties to finish top 6 and with two or three of the four having reasonable hopes of catching Rangers for second. Since the league fixtures re-started at end January we have Aberdeen, Killie and us all with 2 wins out of 9, Saints with 1 win out of 9. Seems remarkably odd but certainly shows the missed opportunity for all four clubs. 

and their results make ours even harder to swallow.

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wavydavy
36 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

I don't disagree with anything you've said above but our next league game is actually against Aberdeen on 30 March, before heading to Ibrox and finishing off the pre split fixtures versus Hibs. As you say the only saing grace is that in their three remaining games it will be difficult, but not impossible for Motherwell to get above us if we continue to play as poorly as we are. Their three remaining pre split fixtures are home to St Johnstone and Rangers and away to Aberdeen. As you say it would be a tall order for them, but not impossible.

 

Yes I missed the Aberdeen game from our fixtures page on HMFC website. I thought we had three games left before the split.

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wavydavy
Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Think he just said we need to add two or three creative players

 

The quote I read I am fairly sure said flair players.

 

Quote from EEN.

 

That would allow us to introduce young players or bring in two or three in the summer who can add more flair.

Edited by wavydavy

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1874robbo

That’s alright then!! Thank feck for that, I thought it was just us that was shite, I’m taking huge comfort in the fact other teams are shite also.

give levein a 3 year extension now!!!

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J80MBO

When we were winning at start of seeing we were playing pish. I always hoped performances would follow...

 

Performances got worse...and from obvs got worse.

 

Would like to see league table minus our lucky start to season.

 

Will always keep season ticket and FoH payments but my enthusiasm and interest is close to all time low watching such dire football with no signs of getting better (as it gets worse and worse)...

 

Even games we gave won, dont recall last time played well.

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jamboozy
18 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

That’s alright then!! Thank feck for that, I thought it was just us that was shite, I’m taking huge comfort in the fact other teams are shite also.

give levein a 3 year extension now!!!

😂 made me laugh, thanks.

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It should have been ten
1 hour ago, WageThief said:

 

You are by definition interested in other clubs.  As long as Clarke is Kilmarnock boss the Hearts boss will have a tougher job on his hands.  If both Clarke and McInnes leave at the end of this season and are replaced by my mum and Teresa May then we'll be much better off next season.

 

Our league position is dictated by the performance of other teams as much as our own.

 

:lol:

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