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Kiwidoug

Terror attacks(s) in Christchurch

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fabienleclerq
On 15/03/2019 at 11:08, Locky said:

Sadly seen the video. First guy who greets the gunman at the door says 'welcome brother' seconds before being shot in the head. Horrible stuff.

 

The gunman wrote that he was protecting his land and people. Well, first, you're from Australia not New Zealand so it's not your land to protect. Also, is that the same Australia who European settlers stole land off of Aboriginal people? Just like racist American's and South African's who claim their land as theirs.

 

And, that ****ing statement man. Jesus wept. Hope that pr*ck is out a job come morning over there.

 

Probably a bit off topic but when does it become his land? Or the Americans or South Africans? Is there a time limit or generation limit or a colour one?

 

Does a second generation polish or Carribbean immigrant not have a claim to being British or that this is their land?

 

On topic, we really need to have a look at as one things we take for granted like freedom of speech, freedom of the press and social media in general. All of which has probably had a role in this happening. How can this happen? Killing little kids and their mothers.

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Locky
1 minute ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

Probably a bit off topic but when does it become his land? Or the Americans or South Africans? Is there a time limit or generation limit or a colour one?

 

Does a second generation polish or Carribbean immigrant not have a claim to being British or that this is their land?

 

On topic, we really need to have a look at as one things we take for granted like freedom of speech, freedom of the press and social media in general. All of which has probably had a role in this happening. How can this happen? Killing little kids and their mothers.

Does anybody really have the right to claim a land as theirs? And who put him in charge of ethnic cleansing. It was no more his land, than the poor people he murdered.

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fabienleclerq
Just now, Locky said:

Does anybody really have the right to claim a land as theirs? And who put him in charge of ethnic cleansing. It was no more his land, than the poor people he murdered.

I think it's fair to say I see Scotland as my country/land, why shouldn't he or the Americans see theirs the same?

 

I did say I was going off topic a bit and In no way excusing this scumbags behaviour. I would see it as their land too if they made their home there. Just a curious viewpoint that the Americans can't claim America as their land yet I doubt you would say to someone who's second generation living in Scotland that it wasn't their land. I

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moogsy

At least they’re going to ban semi-automatic weapons now so it will be much harder for a massacre like this to take place in future. 

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Locky
21 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

I think it's fair to say I see Scotland as my country/land, why shouldn't he or the Americans see theirs the same?

 

I did say I was going off topic a bit and In no way excusing this scumbags behaviour. I would see it as their land too if they made their home there. Just a curious viewpoint that the Americans can't claim America as their land yet I doubt you would say to someone who's second generation living in Scotland that it wasn't their land. I

There's no harm at all in saying 'my country' and being proud of your nation. But there's a very ugly side of nationalism in a lot of countries, and going by incidents like this, USA, Australia and in the past South Africa, are by far the worst. It's just a degree of irony that there are so many people in these nations who believe they're pure and are anti-immigration, despite living in a land whose history and modern day identity is built on immigration. 

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Dino Velvet
2 hours ago, Tazio said:

I've just read a piece in The Independent and the guy would have killed a lot more but a young man that worked as a helper in the 2nd mosque grabbed the guy and disarmed him so he ran away without his guns. The word hero is overused nowadays but he certainly is.

 

The video of his arrest, I'm sure, shows the police kicking away one of his guns. He was armed to the teeth. 

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AlphonseCapone
42 minutes ago, Dino Velvet said:

 

The video of his arrest, I'm sure, shows the police kicking away one of his guns. He was armed to the teeth. 

 

Maybe the different Mosque incident he was meaning with less fatalities? 

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Kiwidoug

Great to see that our young, inexperienced PM is officially angry and wants answers from the security agencies.  How come this guy has a history of spewing hate on-line yet neither us nor the Aussies noticed it or if they did, did nothing about it.  Why did three recent reviews of gun laws not lead to a ban on the sale of military assault weapons?  Plenty of others as well.

 

I would never blame anyone other than the perpetrator but it seems a major shake-up is underway and that's good.

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AlphonseCapone
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

Great to see that our young, inexperienced PM is officially angry and wants answers from the security agencies.  How come this guy has a history of spewing hate on-line yet neither us nor the Aussies noticed it or if they did, did nothing about it.  Why did three recent reviews of gun laws not lead to a ban on the sale of military assault weapons?  Plenty of others as well.

 

I would never blame anyone other than the perpetrator but it seems a major shake-up is underway and that's good.

 

Tbh, can we really expect authorities to track and watch every idiot that spouts that stuff online? It's everywhere. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. 

Edited by AlphonseCapone

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Stokesy
2 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Tbh, can we really expect authorities to track and watch every idiot that spouts that stuff online? It's everywhere. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. 

 

According to this article MI5 can only monitor 50 people 24/7. You would probably need several people per suspect so it's obviously going to be time-consuming and expensive. 

 

Like you say, with the number of idiots running their mouths off online the security forces are facing an uphill battle trying to identify the genuine threats in amongst the attention seeking trolls. 

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Jamboelite
12 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Tbh, can we really expect authorities to track and watch every idiot that spouts that stuff online? It's everywhere. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. 

You could do a check when permits were up for renewal ? A simple search and background check might have set of alarm bells.

 

Im not sure what the process is once you have a license in NZ.

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Maple Leaf

I read that the NZ government is acting quickly to impose stricter gun controls.   This is after 50 people in their country were shot and killed.

 

 Contrast that with the USA where, on average, 90 people are shot and killed each day.  Different administrations, going back decades, have been unwilling or unable to take any serious action.

 

Guns don't kill people; people kill people, in case anyone was wondering. :confused:

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i8hibsh
On 16/03/2019 at 18:07, moogsy said:

At least they’re going to ban semi-automatic weapons now so it will be much harder for a massacre like this to take place in future. 

 

 

Sadly this is not the case.  Semi-automatic weapons are banned in most of the 'big countries' that have had terror attacks in the past and they get hit a lot more than NZ.  These scumbags whether Neo-Nazi scumbags or Jihadi scumbags will find alternatives.   Planes, cars, Nail bombs, knives, guns -  they are resourceful.

 

 

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JackLadd
Posted (edited)

There is no outrage possible that would budge the US arms industry one inch. The right to bear arms for a well regulated militia, that incredibly vague and ancient sentence has murdered millions.  

Edited by JackLadd

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Normthebarman
Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Sadly this is not the case.  Semi-automatic weapons are banned in most of the 'big countries' that have had terror attacks in the past and they get hit a lot more than NZ.  These scumbags whether Neo-Nazi scumbags or Jihadi scumbags will find alternatives.   Planes, cars, Nail bombs, knives, guns -  they are resourceful.

 

 

They'll find ways to do it. But let's not kid on that having legal access to assault rifles doesn't makes it a **** load more easy for them. 

Edited by Normthebarman

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Cade

"they'll attack folk no matter what"

 

Oh aye, so let's just leave automatic weapons on sale to make it nice and easy for them, eh?

 

:vrface:

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ri Alban
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

I read that the NZ government is acting quickly to impose stricter gun controls.   This is after 50 people in their country were shot and killed.

 

 Contrast that with the USA where, on average, 90 people are shot and killed each day.  Different administrations, going back decades, have been unwilling or unable to take any serious action.

 

Guns don't kill people; people kill people, in case anyone was wondering. :confused:

Maybe Mexico and Canada should build their own walls to keep the Americans in.  Going by your numbers, the US population would evaporate fairly quickly if they had no immigration.

Edited by ri Alban

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i8hibsh

If this was a terror attack about 5 years ago we would be on about the 15th page on the thread. This is 4. Sadly it is all just so normal now. Tragic times.

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Cade

Sweeping new gun control laws going through the NZ Parliament.

All large caliber automatic and semi-automatic weapons and all high capacity magazines are now illegal.

Government will be running a buy-back scheme to reimburse owners.

 

Semi automatic .22 rifles and pump action shotguns are still legal for use in pest control and hunting applications but will be tightly regulated.

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AlphonseCapone
39 minutes ago, Cade said:

Sweeping new gun control laws going through the NZ Parliament.

All large caliber automatic and semi-automatic weapons and all high capacity magazines are now illegal.

Government will be running a buy-back scheme to reimburse owners.

 

Semi automatic .22 rifles and pump action shotguns are still legal for use in pest control and hunting applications but will be tightly regulated.

 

Interesting to note the response of Scotland and New Zealand to multiple victim gun attacks compared to the USA. 

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hughesie27
On 18/03/2019 at 19:05, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Sadly this is not the case.  Semi-automatic weapons are banned in most of the 'big countries' that have had terror attacks in the past and they get hit a lot more than NZ.  These scumbags whether Neo-Nazi scumbags or Jihadi scumbags will find alternatives.   Planes, cars, Nail bombs, knives, guns -  they are resourceful.

 

 

The vast vast majority of gun crime and mass shootings aren't carried out with assault rifles or semi automatic weapons anyway.

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i8hibsh
23 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Interesting to note the response of Scotland and New Zealand to multiple victim gun attacks compared to the USA. 

 

 

Sadly guns are just a way of life in America. Would liken it to the Scottish govrnment taking our booze away which I do feel is in their thoughts

 

:seething:

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Cade
1 hour ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Interesting to note the response of Scotland and New Zealand to multiple victim gun attacks compared to the USA. 

Auzzies too, they tightened gun laws after the Port Arthur massacre 

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Tazio
8 hours ago, Cade said:

Auzzies too, they tightened gun laws after the Port Arthur massacre 

And the UK as a whole after Hungerford. 

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peter_hmfc
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, hughesie27 said:

The vast vast majority of gun crime and mass shootings aren't carried out with assault rifles or semi automatic weapons anyway.

 

The massacres generally are carried out with highly powered rifles (Parkland, Sutherland Springs, Sandy Hook, Las Vegas).

 

No mass-shootings (to my knowledge) were carried out with fully automatic weapons.

Edited by peter_hmfc

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hughesie27
2 minutes ago, peter_hmfc said:

 

The massacres generally are carried out with highly powered rifles (Parkland, Sutherland Springs, Sandy Hook, Las Vegas).

 

No mass-shootings (to my knowledge) were carried out with fully automatic weapons.

A mass shooting is typically defined as above 3 or 4 deaths I think. 

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peter_hmfc
Just now, hughesie27 said:

A mass shooting is typically defined as above 3 or 4 deaths I think. 

 

A mass-shooting is 4+ injured and/or killed not including the perpetrator as per the FBI standards.

 

A majority of mass-shootings are carried out with handguns however a majority of these are gang violence.

 

The massacres on the other hand (est. around 7 or 8+ killed) which are the kind of incidents to spur on calls for gun control are generally carried out with highly-powered high-capacity semi-automatic rifles. No mass-shootings that I know of were carried out with fully automatic guns.

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Cade

Fully automatic weapons have always been unavailable to the general public.

 

Semi automatic weapons can be made to function like fully automatic with various devices and simple modifications like the infamous bump-stock used in Las Vegas.

 

These modifications and devices are also being made illegal in NZ.

 

Just to clarify things a bit.

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ri Alban
On 21/03/2019 at 09:14, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Interesting to note the response of Scotland and New Zealand to multiple victim gun attacks compared to the USA. 

Aye, but San Francisco just banned E cigs. They know how to prioritise.

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John Gentleman
On 17/03/2019 at 12:35, Kiwidoug said:

Great to see that our young, inexperienced PM is officially angry and wants answers from the security agencies.  How come this guy has a history of spewing hate on-line yet neither us nor the Aussies noticed it or if they did, did nothing about it.  Why did three recent reviews of gun laws not lead to a ban on the sale of military assault weapons?  Plenty of others as well.

 

I would never blame anyone other than the perpetrator but it seems a major shake-up is underway and that's good.

I was absolutely stunned to learn that NZ's gun laws were so lax. Maybe the old "it could never happen here" complacency mindset was firmly entrenched?

Australia learnt a bitter lesson in '96 (Port Arthur massacre). Now, it's almost impossible for a random punter to obtain a gun, or even bullets for that matter. Which is exactly as it should be.

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Cade

Islamophobic attacks in the UK up nearly 600% since the NZ massacre.

 

Stabbings, firebombings, mosques attacked, the whole caboodle.

 

The far right have flown under the radar and been pandered to by the press and the authorities for 18 years and this is where we are now.

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AlphonseCapone
20 minutes ago, Cade said:

Islamophobic attacks in the UK up nearly 600% since the NZ massacre.

 

Stabbings, firebombings, mosques attacked, the whole caboodle.

 

The far right have flown under the radar and been pandered to by the press and the authorities for 18 years and this is where we are now.

 

Think there's a SDL demonstration in Edinburgh today. 

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Geoff the Mince
10 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Think there's a SDL demonstration in Edinburgh today. 

Yip Market Street now , a few toothless stone island jakeballs kicking about . Heavy Police presence and a sizeable number of counter protestors . Its all a bit pathetic .

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Mauricio Pinilla

Wondered why i8 wasn't around here today. 

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AlphonseCapone
10 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said:

Yip Market Street now , a few toothless stone island jakeballs kicking about . Heavy Police presence and a sizeable number of counter protestors . Its all a bit pathetic .

 

The papers expected 30 of them and 40 of their English brethren. 

 

4 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

Wondered why i8 wasn't around here today. 

 

:scenes:

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i8hibsh
6 hours ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

Wondered why i8 wasn't around here today. 

 

 

Was too busy beating up Muslims. Back now though.

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