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Sean Clare

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Posted (edited)

Another glittering example of writing a player off early doors, and then when he finds his feet, and starts contributing; changing tac to saying he doesn’t do enough.

 

Better to perform mental gymnastics, than to just admit he’s a decent player I suppose. 

 

 

F0F7F687-DAB1-42D0-A86F-70277C20BDD3.jpeg

Edited by Glib and Shameless Crier

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Tatlock

Players with pace and skill need a midfield which acts and thinks quickly in order to play them into space or at least move forward more often than side or back. Watch how Haring Lee or Djoum take several touches before looking to make a penetrating pass. Watch how Clare, mulreany, Morrison or the strikers begin to make a run for the pass which never comes or comes too late. That is why good players start to look bad. Even poor strikers look good when playing with a team who pass quickly. 

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chester copperpot

Hes great. I thoroughly rate him.

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Governor Tarkin

Big Dave is one of the good guys.

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Icon of Symmetry
5 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

Big Dave is one of the good guys.

 

:D

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maroonlegions

Will say this AGAIN , Clair is so much better played in an attacking role . Its no fluke that he has scored against Killie away and now Dundee. Play him there, he is wasted out wide.

 

 

FTH.

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HMFC86

So he’s now scored excellent match winning goals vs Livi & Kilmarnock and a scrappy match winning goal vs Dundee but he doesn’t do enough? 

 

The boys a talent. The lazy tag is bizarre as he continually wins headers, chases down and tackles. 

 

Some just make their mind up on a player and there’s no way back. 

 

The aimless punts up the park are why he isn’t influencing more(you know apart from the 9 points he’s won) 

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Shaggy2
1 hour ago, HMFC86 said:

So he’s now scored excellent match winning goals vs Livi & Kilmarnock and a scrappy match winning goal vs Dundee but he doesn’t do enough? 

 

The boys a talent. The lazy tag is bizarre as he continually wins headers, chases down and tackles. 

 

Some just make their mind up on a player and there’s no way back. 

 

The aimless punts up the park are why he isn’t influencing more(you know apart from the 9 points he’s won) 

Firstly, Livi was a cup game. Secondly, he gave us a 1-0 lead at Killie and the opposition did score, so technically the second was the winner, imho. Both Clare’s goals were excellent, but to say he’s won us 9 points is wrong. 

However...he’s also cost us three points recently and arguably should take a lot of the blame for the fact we’re watching Partick Thistle on a freezing Tuesday night in March. The OG against St Mirren was woeful, not tucking in against Celtic (although I blame Souttar for a share of that as well) and his (he wasn’t alone) sitter to make it 2-0 at Firhill was costly and could become even more vital yet.

He’s not as shite as some say, but he’s becoming the blue eyed boy of those who WANT him to do well rather than admit he’s nowhere near the player that Levein promised us. He is very very average and his appearance in the team has, along with Naismith’s injury it must be said, coincided with our descent down the table.

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Rudolf
29 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said:

Firstly, Livi was a cup game. Secondly, he gave us a 1-0 lead at Killie and the opposition did score, so technically the second was the winner, imho. Both Clare’s goals were excellent, but to say he’s won us 9 points is wrong. 

However...he’s also cost us three points recently and arguably should take a lot of the blame for the fact we’re watching Partick Thistle on a freezing Tuesday night in March. The OG against St Mirren was woeful, not tucking in against Celtic (although I blame Souttar for a share of that as well) and his (he wasn’t alone) sitter to make it 2-0 at Firhill was costly and could become even more vital yet.

He’s not as shite as some say, but he’s becoming the blue eyed boy of those who WANT him to do well rather than admit he’s nowhere near the player that Levein promised us. He is very very average and his appearance in the team has, along with Naismith’s injury it must be said, coincided with our descent down the table.

The boys a quality player. 

 

Anyone with a modicum of football knowledge can see that. 

 

Very, very average 😄

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Shaggy2
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Rudolf said:

The boys a quality player. 

 

Anyone with a modicum of football knowledge can see that. 

 

Very, very average 😄

He may be but he’s yet to show it. My opinion is “quality” players don’t move from the English Championship to the SPFL Premier, unless they’re going to Celtic. 

As for the throwaway internet line about knowledge of football, you can stick that where the sun don’t shine. 

Sean Clare is a very good footballer with the heart of a mouse, as shown by his lack of aggression at St Mirren OG , his lack of conviction at Celtic’s winner and his lack of frustration at ballooning the ball onto Glasgow Green last Monday. All combined that makes him very very average to me...at the moment. Take Oliver Bozanic, who is a pretty shite footballer who’ll show for the ball every time and battle for everything, which brings him up to very very average. You have to persevere with Clare (because it’s unlikely Bozanic will ever be as good at football as he is) just in case he has an occasional blinder but he’s the one who’ll frustrate me far more out of the two. He’s no as bad as they were, but that’s why guys like Kingston and Tziolis are mocked when we look back. My “favourite” player who had bags of ability but did it when he could be arsed was Edgaras Jankauskas so that’s maybe a better indication of where this lad COULD go but he has to grab games against shite like St Mirren, Partick and Dundee by the scruff of the neck.

I’ve been wrong before so maybe your knowledge crack is right. I shared Levein’s opinion of Paul Hartley after his first few games. Misjudged that one by a fair bit! 

Edited by Shaggy2

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Rudolf
3 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said:

He may be but he’s yet to show it. My opinion is “quality” players don’t move from the English Championship to the SPFL Premier, unless they’re going to Celtic. 

As for the throwaway internet line about knowledge of football, you can stick that where the sun don’t shine. 

Sean Clare is a very good footballer with the heart of a mouse, as shown by his lack of aggression at St Mirren OG , his lack of conviction at Celtic’s winner and his lack of frustration at ballooning the ball onto Glasgow Green last Monday. All combined that makes him very very average to me...at the moment. Take Oliver Bozanic, who is a pretty shite footballer who’ll show for the ball every time and battle for everything, which brings him up to very very average. You have to persevere with Clare (because it’s unlikely Bozanic will ever be as good at football as he is) just in case he has an occasional blinder but he’s the one who’ll frustrate me far more out of the two. He’s no as bad as they were, but that’s why guys like Kingston and Tziolis are mocked when we look back. My “favourite” player who had bags of ability but did it when he could be arsed was Edgaras Jankauskas so that’s maybe a better indication of where this lad COULD go but he has to grab games against shite like St Mirren, Partick and Dundee by the scruff of the neck.

I’ve been wrong before so maybe your knowledge crack is right. I shared Levein’s opinion of Paul Hartley after his first few games. Misjudged that one by a fair bit! 

So he’s a very good footballer but he’s very very average. 

 

Time to make your mind up. 

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SpruceBringsteen
2 hours ago, HMFC86 said:

The boys a talent. The lazy tag is bizarre as he continually wins headers, chases down and tackles. 

 

There's a fair few "lazy" players that Kickback never took to.

 

:whistling:

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Uncle Buck

He’s got a spark that nobody else in our team does. Just glides past people.

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Shaggy2
55 minutes ago, Rudolf said:

So he’s a very good footballer but he’s very very average. 

 

Time to make your mind up. 

You need to learn read. I’ve explained the reason very good footballers make themselves very very average. 

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Shaggy2
28 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said:

You need to learn read. I’ve explained the reason very good footballers make themselves very very average. 

No idea why the word “to” was omitted by my phone. 

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Rudolf
54 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said:

You need to learn read. I’ve explained the reason very good footballers make themselves very very average. 

You need to learn to open your eyes when you’re at a game if you can’t see the work he puts in. 

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Stephen Muddie

This always happens...

 

How many times have i been raging at a player of ours then they go do something good...

 

I'm talking all the way back... Wayne Foster.. Hans Eskilsonn 

 

:rofl:

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Shaggy2
5 minutes ago, Rudolf said:

You need to learn to open your eyes when you’re at a game if you can’t see the work he puts in. 

Is that the extent of your argument? To be honest I was hoping for a better debate. One in which you argue your case and back it up with valid points which may or may not sway me from my view to yours. That’s not doing it for me so I’ll just leave this thread to others now that my opinion and reasoning is out there...

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DH1986
1 hour ago, Uncle Buck said:

He’s got a spark that nobody else in our team does. Just glides past people.

 

We need to find a formation and line up that allow him the opportunity to do this more often.

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Icon of Symmetry
3 hours ago, Shaggy2 said:

Firstly, Livi was a cup game. Secondly, he gave us a 1-0 lead at Killie and the opposition did score, so technically the second was the winner, imho. Both Clare’s goals were excellent, but to say he’s won us 9 points is wrong. 

However...he’s also cost us three points recently and arguably should take a lot of the blame for the fact we’re watching Partick Thistle on a freezing Tuesday night in March. The OG against St Mirren was woeful, not tucking in against Celtic (although I blame Souttar for a share of that as well) and his (he wasn’t alone) sitter to make it 2-0 at Firhill was costly and could become even more vital yet.

He’s not as shite as some say, but he’s becoming the blue eyed boy of those who WANT him to do well rather than admit he’s nowhere near the player that Levein promised us. He is very very average and his appearance in the team has, along with Naismith’s injury it must be said, coincided with our descent down the table.

 

This is patently untrue, old bean. The boy was getting called all kinds of shite to begin with, and he’s now showing that isn’t the case. Guys who attract this kind of early unfair criticism deserve a wee bit of support when they start to improve, that’s all that’s happening with Clare. He was being written off by a section of our support who often make up their minds really early and then just flat refuse to recognise improvement, as that would expose their premature writing off of a player. It’s actually quite sad to watch.

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hisnameis

If Sean Clare was that good there would be no debate about it. The fact that he has so many critics speaks volumes. Have said before that he has ability but doesn’t always display the will to use it. The fact that he scored the winner yesterday proves SFA either way. Man of the match performances on a regular basis will do that. I await with hope rather than expectation.

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Mr Elwood P
2 hours ago, Shaggy2 said:

He may be but he’s yet to show it. My opinion is “quality” players don’t move from the English Championship to the SPFL Premier, unless they’re going to Celtic. 

As for the throwaway internet line about knowledge of football, you can stick that where the sun don’t shine. 

Sean Clare is a very good footballer with the heart of a mouse, as shown by his lack of aggression at St Mirren OG , his lack of conviction at Celtic’s winner and his lack of frustration at ballooning the ball onto Glasgow Green last Monday. All combined that makes him very very average to me...at the moment. Take Oliver Bozanic, who is a pretty shite footballer who’ll show for the ball every time and battle for everything, which brings him up to very very average. You have to persevere with Clare (because it’s unlikely Bozanic will ever be as good at football as he is) just in case he has an occasional blinder but he’s the one who’ll frustrate me far more out of the two. He’s no as bad as they were, but that’s why guys like Kingston and Tziolis are mocked when we look back. My “favourite” player who had bags of ability but did it when he could be arsed was Edgaras Jankauskas so that’s maybe a better indication of where this lad COULD go but he has to grab games against shite like St Mirren, Partick and Dundee by the scruff of the neck.

I’ve been wrong before so maybe your knowledge crack is right. I shared Levein’s opinion of Paul Hartley after his first few games. Misjudged that one by a fair bit! 

 

Lafferty, Naismith and McLaughlin?

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Icon of Symmetry

Too many people judge a player’s ability on things like them choosing to come to Hearts/SPFL Premiership, or what other people say about him, as opposed to watching him and making their own mind up based on what they see. It’s rife on here and has been for a while.

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ToqueJambo
21 minutes ago, hisnameis said:

If Sean Clare was that good there would be no debate about it. The fact that he has so many critics speaks volumes. Have said before that he has ability but doesn’t always display the will to use it. The fact that he scored the winner yesterday proves SFA either way. Man of the match performances on a regular basis will do that. I await with hope rather than expectation.

 

He's 22.

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Shaggy2
12 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Lafferty, Naismith and McLaughlin?

Always exceptions to rules and I’m chuckling at the thought of the former two playing for Celtic. I knew this would be asked. I meant players who are young, English and as highly thought of as Clare allegedly was. Aberdeen got Maddison and there are a few others who’ve been loaned up here but very few come on permanent deals. 

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Icon of Symmetry
3 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said:

Always exceptions to rules and I’m chuckling at the thought of the former two playing for Celtic. I knew this would be asked. I meant players who are young, English and as highly thought of as Clare allegedly was. Aberdeen got Maddison and there are a few others who’ve been loaned up here but very few come on permanent deals. 

 

If you use that as a way of rating players, then we will never have any good players.

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Rudolf
1 hour ago, Shaggy2 said:

Is that the extent of your argument? To be honest I was hoping for a better debate. One in which you argue your case and back it up with valid points which may or may not sway me from my view to yours. That’s not doing it for me so I’ll just leave this thread to others now that my opinion and reasoning is out there...

If you think that a player is very, very average who has the following attributes then I think you’re watching too much Champions League. 

 

1. Ability to score quality goals

2. Ability to glide past players with pace

3. Determination to track back, tackle and win/challenge for headers

 

Admittedly he’s only shown this ability in flashes but this is a young player coming back from a long term injury and playing in a different league as well as being thrown in before being ready due to our injury crisis earlier in the season. 

 

Have a look at the highlights of the Dundee game (not many) at about 3.20 in and tell me that’s a very, very average player.  

 

 

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DVB

It’s been a while since a player has split opinions in such a manner.

 

Callum Elliott and David Obua did likewise.

 

I didn’t rate them and I don’t rate Clare.

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To Be Frank
Posted (edited)

“Heart of a mouse” 

 

Clearly some posters possess the brain of said rodent :rofl:

Edited by To Be Frank

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DVB
5 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

“Heart of a mouse” 

 

Clearly some posters possess the brain of said rodent :rofl:

You could always save up all the negative comments and then post them when he does well like you did with the rip roaring success that is Steven MacLean.

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Finlay James

Why the **** do some on here spend so much of their time trying to run down our players and manager?

 

FFS, Sean Clare started slowly, is improving every game but has shown flashes of how good he could be.  We potentially have a very good player on our hands but it won't be helped by our fans sitting and praying for him to **** up so that they can say "told you so".

 

Give it a ****ing rest.

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1971fozzy
5 minutes ago, Finlay James said:

Why the **** do some on here spend so much of their time trying to run down our players and manager?

 

FFS, Sean Clare started slowly, is improving every game but has shown flashes of how good he could be.  We potentially have a very good player on our hands but it won't be helped by our fans sitting and praying for him to **** up so that they can say "told you so".

 

Give it a ****ing rest.

 

My thoughts also. 

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Olly Lee's left boot
27 minutes ago, DVB said:

It’s been a while since a player has split opinions in such a manner.

 

Callum Elliott and David Obua did likewise.

 

I didn’t rate them and I don’t rate Clare.

 

 

Been a while... What since Djoum? 

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DVB
3 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

Been a while... What since Djoum? 

Actually I forgot about Buaben who I liked.

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Icon of Symmetry
10 minutes ago, Finlay James said:

Why the **** do some on here spend so much of their time trying to run down our players and manager?

 

FFS, Sean Clare started slowly, is improving every game but has shown flashes of how good he could be.  We potentially have a very good player on our hands but it won't be helped by our fans sitting and praying for him to **** up so that they can say "told you so".

 

Give it a ****ing rest.

 

Absolutely bang on the cash.

 

:spoton:

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Olly Lee's left boot
11 minutes ago, Finlay James said:

Why the **** do some on here spend so much of their time trying to run down our players and manager?

 

FFS, Sean Clare started slowly, is improving every game but has shown flashes of how good he could be.  We potentially have a very good player on our hands but it won't be helped by our fans sitting and praying for him to **** up so that they can say "told you so".

 

Give it a ****ing rest.

 

 

Close thread. 

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portobellojambo1
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Shaggy2 said:

Always exceptions to rules and I’m chuckling at the thought of the former two playing for Celtic. I knew this would be asked. I meant players who are young, English and as highly thought of as Clare allegedly was. Aberdeen got Maddison and there are a few others who’ve been loaned up here but very few come on permanent deals. 

 

Is it not maybe the case that Sean Clare fell to an extent into the same sort of category as Vanecek, where any praise was possibly self praise in a way. There were things going about that Clare had indicated he was the target of a number of EPL clubs, but chose us. If you search the internet it isn't possible to find any indication of interest from EPL clubs. Similarly Vanecek appeared, rather stupidly, to build up an opinion of himself that he was going to come to the SPFL and run riot. In the vast majority of cases players coming to these shores are probably best to wait until they get here, do the business on the park and then maybe say how much better they can do than they have done so far. I have no idea how good either of the previous two players will be. I've not seen enough of Vanecek and what I have seen of Clare it would be difficult to say anything other than it has been a bit frustrating. He doesn't seem to be one of those players who performs at the same or a similar level each time he plays. I really don't know if either will go on to be successful at Tynecastle

Edited by portobellojambo1

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To Be Frank
27 minutes ago, Finlay James said:

Why the **** do some on here spend so much of their time trying to run down our players and manager?

 

FFS, Sean Clare started slowly, is improving every game but has shown flashes of how good he could be.  We potentially have a very good player on our hands but it won't be helped by our fans sitting and praying for him to **** up so that they can say "told you so".

 

Give it a ****ing rest.

 

:spoton:

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Icon of Symmetry
10 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

Is it not maybe the case that Sean Clare fell to an extent into the same sort of category as Vanecek, where any praise was possibly self praise in a way. There were things going about that Clare had indicated he was the target of a number of EPL clubs, but chose us. If you search the internet it isn't possible to find any indication of interest from EPL clubs. Similarly Vanecek appeared, rather stupidly, to build up an opinion of himself that he was going to come to the SPFL and run riot. In the vast majority of cases players coming to these shores are probably best to wait until they get here, do the business on the park and then maybe say how much better they can do than they have done so far. I have no idea how good either of the previous two players will be. I've not seen enough of Vanecek and what I have seen of Clare it would be difficult to say anything other than it has been a bit frustrating. He doesn't seem to be one of those players who performs at the same or a similar level each time he plays. I really don't know if either will go on to be successful at Tynecastle

 

Bloody hell PJ1, just how pessimistic can you be? 😄

 

You’ve got a fair few more seasons under your belt than I do. In that time, how many players (in their respective positions) would measure up to the standards you and a few others are demanding of Clare, and to a lesser extent (because he’s not been here that long) Vanecek?

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jambonian

Sean Clare will improve as will many others when Levein and his coaches get the bullet. Once a decent coaching team has been brought in you'll see a big difference in our players. Lots have come in, looked very decent then fell away. This isn't a new thing but something that's been going on since 2016. A new outlook, coaching style and training regime will shape up the better ones and show up the poorer ones. This has to happen sooner rather than later before the next transfer window opens, and before some of the better players we have think of leaving without really proving themselves.

 

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SpruceBringsteen
4 hours ago, hisnameis said:

The fact that he has so many critics speaks volumes.

 

Doesn't it just.

 

:whistling:

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Notts1874
1 minute ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

 

Doesn't it just.

 

:whistling:

Now now. Behave😂😂😂

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Icon of Symmetry
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, jambonian said:

Sean Clare will improve as will many others when Levein and his coaches get the bullet. Once a decent coaching team has been brought in you'll see a big difference in our players. Lots have come in, looked very decent then fell away. This isn't a new thing but something that's been going on since 2016. A new outlook, coaching style and training regime will shape up the better ones and show up the poorer ones. This has to happen sooner rather than later before the next transfer window opens, and before some of the better players we have think of leaving without really proving themselves.

 

 

True, Souttar has had all the ability coached right out of him by Levein, and has definitely gone backwards at a rate of knots. Then there’s Uche, a guy who was playing a couple of levels below what he is now, and hasn’t risen to the challenge... oh, and Haring! He was playing in the Austrian second tier and totally failed to step up a level under Levein. Back to Clare though... he was incredible when he first arrived. Then Levein started coaching the ability out of him week by week, and now look at him. 🙁

Edited by Glib and Shameless Crier

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davemclaren
15 minutes ago, jambonian said:

Sean Clare will improve as will many others when Levein and his coaches get the bullet. Once a decent coaching team has been brought in you'll see a big difference in our players. Lots have come in, looked very decent then fell away. This isn't a new thing but something that's been going on since 2016. A new outlook, coaching style and training regime will shape up the better ones and show up the poorer ones. This has to happen sooner rather than later before the next transfer window opens, and before some of the better players we have think of leaving without really proving themselves.

 

Oddly enough, very few seem eager to leave it would seem. 

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portobellojambo1
14 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

Bloody hell PJ1, just how pessimistic can you be? 😄

 

You’ve got a fair few more seasons under your belt than I do. In that time, how many players (in their respective positions) would measure up to the standards you and a few others are demanding of Clare, and to a lesser extent (because he’s not been here that long) Vanecek?

 

 

Sorry, I didn't think I was being particularly pessimistic, but hey ho. Vanecek, I've not seen enough of, so I don't know if he will make it or not. Clare, I do find frustrating, because I think there might be a player in there eventually, but he does seem to drift out of games quite easily, could be construed as pessimistic but I'd class it as realistic with regard to what I've seen of him so far.

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maroonsgotop
46 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

 

My thoughts also. 

and mine

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To Be Frank
3 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Oddly enough, very few seem eager to leave it would seem. 

 

Indeed. The amount of players signing new contracts clearly indicates they don’t feel he is developing them. 🤔

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Icon of Symmetry
Just now, portobellojambo1 said:

 

 

Sorry, I didn't think I was being particularly pessimistic, but hey ho. Vanecek, I've not seen enough of, so I don't know if he will make it or not. Clare, I do find frustrating, because I think there might be a player in there eventually, but he does seem to drift out of games quite easily, could be construed as pessimistic but I'd class it as realistic with regard to what I've seen of him so far.

 

Fair enough, wasn’t meant as a wide remark. Just thought it was quite a negative outlook to have, when there’s plenty Hearts players of the past who have gone on to do well, despite not looking like world beaters right from the get go. 

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Mr Elwood P
2 hours ago, Rudolf said:

If you think that a player is very, very average who has the following attributes then I think you’re watching too much Champions League

 

1. Ability to score quality goals

2. Ability to glide past players with pace

3. Determination to track back, tackle and win/challenge for headers

 

Admittedly he’s only shown this ability in flashes but this is a young player coming back from a long term injury and playing in a different league as well as being thrown in before being ready due to our injury crisis earlier in the season. 

 

Have a look at the highlights of the Dundee game (not many) at about 3.20 in and tell me that’s a very, very average player.  

 

 

 

I think that is an excellent point and something I had considered earlier on. When folk talk about terrible performances what are the basing it on? I watched Crystal Palace v Brighton yesterday and a bunch of guys on massive wages were struggling to pass the ball five feet for a lot of the game. I think the proliferation of football on TV means that people have a skewed expectation of what a Hearts team should be producing on the park.

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2 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

I think that is an excellent point and something I had considered earlier on. When folk talk about terrible performances what are the basing it on? I watched Crystal Palace v Brighton yesterday and a bunch of guys on massive wages were struggling to pass the ball five feet for a lot of the game. I think the proliferation of football on TV means that people have a skewed expectation of what a Hearts team should be producing on the park.

 

I think they base it on televised matches from richer leagues, as well as selective memories of Hearts of the past.

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