U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

January 11

57 minutes ago, Threedoorsdown said:

If I was going 35 in a 30 zone then probably not. If I failed to stop for police or follow lawful orders then almost certainly.

You are making out as if she’s parked on double yellows waiting for a pizza. That’s not what’s going on in the lead up to her death.

All she did was try to drive off. That's it. That's all. She drove away from the agent and he shot her. You're making out as if she was armed and dangerous.

56 minutes ago, Threedoorsdown said:

Did you stop for the police?

Yes, although another time I got pulled in a small town in SC because the cop looked at our car and clearly thought we were Black driving through a sundown town after dark. (Durham is a majority Black town and I had Durham bumper stickers on that car.) Because it was dark and it wasn't safe to pull over, I slowed down, put on my flashers, and drove about another quarter mile until there was a well lit spot that was safe to pull into. The cop got awfully antsy thinking we were trying to drive off at 20mph and ran his sirens a couple of times after we turned.

You think maybe if he'd shot us, we'd have been asking for it?

January 11

Oh, and I should say this bullshit has gotten far worse under Trump with the accountability-free zone created around agents and the tripling of their budgets, but ICE and CBP have been violent shitstains under many admins, including Obama's. There's a reason "Abolish ICE" isn't a new protest phrase.

2014:

January 11

I can see the argument that the woman made a poor decision to try to drive away when being approached. In America it's inviting an escalation you probably don't want. Even with ICE where there's a good chance you aren't going to just be given a slap on the wrist and sent home. But it's better than taking the risk. And as we have seen numerous times if you give the wrong person any opportunity to take it to that level then a lot of the time they will.

Which is why I can also see the argument that this particular ICE officer couldn't wait to fire his weapon at her.

Someone before said that she was just trying to drive away from them. I think it's fair to say she was actively fleeing them. They were trying to open the door to her vehicle and if successful would likely have dragged her out of her car. Unjustly. She certainly at no point was trying to run anyone over however.

Edited January 11 by hughesie27

January 11

6 hours ago, Threedoorsdown said:

Possibly;

Assault with a deadly weapon

Attempted assault of a federal officer

Obstruction of law enforcement

Reckless driving

Just off the top of my head. Classic case of a lifetime of lack of consequences for one’s actions. Unemployed poet indeed.

I’m a bit late in on this but a couple of questions. Do you live in America and are you involved in law enforcement there? If not are you involved in law enforcement in the UK?

January 11

This incident can be looked at quite simply. If the ICE Agent did not have a gun what would the outcome have been?

January 11

A woman in a beenie hat with a dog in the back and her kids soft toys driving a Honda Pilot that broke no law I can see but executed by a deranged trigger happy psycho in police uniform. Honestly glad I am not going to any world cup fixture.

January 11

9 hours ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

All she did was try to drive off. That's it. That's all. She drove away from the agent and he shot her. You're making out as if she was armed and dangerous.

Yes, although another time I got pulled in a small town in SC because the cop looked at our car and clearly thought we were Black driving through a sundown town after dark. (Durham is a majority Black town and I had Durham bumper stickers on that car.) Because it was dark and it wasn't safe to pull over, I slowed down, put on my flashers, and drove about another quarter mile until there was a well lit spot that was safe to pull into. The cop got awfully antsy thinking we were trying to drive off at 20mph and ran his sirens a couple of times after we turned.

You think maybe if he'd shot us, we'd have been asking for it?

Let’s follow the logic here. If you’ll indulge me for a minute - why did you decide to stop for the police? You were in a rush, late for something. Surely that would have delayed you further?

Why not hammer it and just ignore the police?

January 11

9 hours ago, hughesie27 said:

I can see the argument that the woman made a poor decision to try to drive away when being approached. In America it's inviting an escalation you probably don't want. Even with ICE where there's a good chance you aren't going to just be given a slap on the wrist and sent home. But it's better than taking the risk. And as we have seen numerous times if you give the wrong person any opportunity to take it to that level then a lot of the time they will.

Which is why I can also see the argument that this particular ICE officer couldn't wait to fire his weapon at her.

Someone before said that she was just trying to drive away from them. I think it's fair to say she was actively fleeing them. They were trying to open the door to her vehicle and if successful would likely have dragged her out of her car. Unjustly. She certainly at no point was trying to run anyone over however.

Well done Hughsie - a balanced description (at last) of what actually happened. She was reckless and was actively fleeing. She took a risk by putting herself in that position. She DID NOT attempt to hit an officer with her car, IMO. and did not deserve to be shot. The officer should be arrested and charged.

January 11

15 hours ago, Threedoorsdown said:

I believe that refusing to follow orders by armed police* significantly risks your exposure to being shot in the head three times.

They weren't police, bud, they were masked paramilitaries.

A subtle difference, but an important one, no?

January 11

7 hours ago, JackLadd said:

A woman in a beenie hat with a dog in the back and her kids soft toys driving a Honda Pilot that broke no law I can see but executed by a deranged trigger happy psycho in police uniform. Honestly glad I am not going to any world cup fixture.

I'm sure it's not the entire country and we see the extreme stories in the news but it just seems mental over in the US right now

January 11

Just now, il Duce McTarkin said:

They weren't police, bud, they were masked paramilitaries.

A subtle difference, but an important one, no?

They are federal agents with arrest authority, not paramilitaries. You may dislike the optics, but the legal status matters.

They have a direct political mandate from the American people. Trump was very clear on his policy prior to taking office and he won the election.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-18/donald-trump-promises-largest-deportation-operation/103241936?utm_source=chatgpt.com

January 11

Following the logic all the Jan 6ers would be shot dead .

January 11

3 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Following the logic all the Jan 6ers would be shot dead .

A very good point.

January 11

12 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Following the logic all the Jan 6ers would be shot dead .

Certainly took that risk.

Edited January 11 by Threedoorsdown

January 11

28 minutes ago, Threedoorsdown said:

They are federal agents with arrest authority, not paramilitaries. You may dislike the optics, but the legal status matters.

So not the police then, cool.

20 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Following the logic all the Jan 6ers would be shot dead .

:spoton:

January 11

8 minutes ago, Threedoorsdown said:

Certainly took that risk.

I don't think anyone really believes the police would of gunned down 100s of Jan 6ers .. but the weak pathetic cowardly ICE agents obviously have a different interpretation of what's a risk to life .

January 11

3 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

So not the police then, cool.

Fair. Semantics though really.

They have both legal authority and a political mandate. I see you quietly ignored that part.

January 11

23 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

I don't think anyone really believes the police would of gunned down 100s of Jan 6ers .. but the weak pathetic cowardly ICE agents obviously have a different interpretation of what's a risk to life .

If the roles are reversed and "peaceful protesters" try and get into the exact same building "when" Trump refuses to leave in 2028 - do you think there will be shots fired by the security/agents defending it?

January 11

The agent that shot the woman in the head is a coward, pure and simple. The people defending him are moronic, brainwashed sheep who will jump through every hoop imaginable for their dearest leader.

The woman was unarmed, she did not attempt to run anyone over, the video shows it. There was 0 threat to life for any of the agents. Nothing she did constitutes a death sentence. This is what happens when you give people masks, guns and allow them to act with complete immunity above the law, it really was only a matter of time.

The narrative being created is that because she was a liberal, lesbian poet means her life is worth less - that should terrify people because if they can gun down a white American woman & face no consequences they can do it to anyone else simply because they met the wrong person at the wrong time. ICE have just been given a remit to murder anyone who inconveniences them, safe in the knowledge that the administration will protect them.

January 11

6 minutes ago, boag1874 said:

The agent that shot the woman in the head is a coward, pure and simple. The people defending him are moronic, brainwashed sheep who will jump through every hoop imaginable for their dearest leader.

The woman was unarmed, she did not attempt to run anyone over, the video shows it. There was 0 threat to life for any of the agents. Nothing she did constitutes a death sentence. This is what happens when you give people masks, guns and allow them to act with complete immunity above the law, it really was only a matter of time.

The narrative being created is that because she was a liberal, lesbian poet means her life is worth less - that should terrify people because if they can gun down a white American woman & face no consequences they can do it to anyone else simply because they met the wrong person at the wrong time. ICE have just been given a remit to murder anyone who inconveniences them, safe in the knowledge that the administration will protect them.

Well said :thumbs_up:

January 11

21 minutes ago, boag1874 said:

The agent that shot the woman in the head is a coward, pure and simple. The people defending him are moronic, brainwashed sheep who will jump through every hoop imaginable for their dearest leader.

The woman was unarmed, she did not attempt to run anyone over, the video shows it. There was 0 threat to life for any of the agents. Nothing she did constitutes a death sentence. This is what happens when you give people masks, guns and allow them to act with complete immunity above the law, it really was only a matter of time.

The narrative being created is that because she was a liberal, lesbian poet means her life is worth less - that should terrify people because if they can gun down a white American woman & face no consequences they can do it to anyone else simply because they met the wrong person at the wrong time. ICE have just been given a remit to murder anyone who inconveniences them, safe in the knowledge that the administration will protect them.

Their dearest leader? Suggesting this woman played a massive part in her death does no equal supporting Trump.

Straw man tactics to make yourself seem morally superior.

The woman was an idiot. She made poor choices and now she’s dead. Time to move on.

January 11

1 hour ago, Threedoorsdown said:

Fair. Semantics though really.

They have both legal authority and a political mandate. I see you quietly ignored that part.

I quietly ignored **** all, champ, it just wasn't relevant to my point.

It's good to know that legal authority and political mandate legitimises the process of administering instant, violent death to members of the public in dubious circumstances, though. What a win for humanity.

January 11

33 minutes ago, boag1874 said:

The narrative being created is that because she was a liberal, lesbian poet means her life is worth less

Clearly a wrong un. Her six year old child is probably better off without that type of mother.

January 11

Just now, il Duce McTarkin said:

I quietly ignored **** all, champ, it just wasn't relevant to my point.

It's good to know that legal authority and political mandate legitimises the process of administering instant, violent death to members of the public in dubious circumstances, though. What a win for humanity.

Dancing around the points again mate.

Trump was elected partly on the policy of mass deportations. He has followed through on this policy and people are hellbent on opposing it using criminal means.

I’ll repeat this until I’m blue in the face. If everyone acted the way this lady did, society would collapse within hours.

It’s amazing that democracy only seems to count when it’s in the lefts favour.

January 11

18 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

Clearly a wrong un. Her six year old child is probably better off without that type of mother.

A view I've seen widely held across the far right cesspool of X.

That view and the wider FAFO view has clearly disseminated its way onto Facey/insta where morons have their daily dose of right wing, moon howling shite pumped straight into their susceptible eyes.

January 11

4 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

A view I've seen widely held across the far right cesspool of X.

That view and the wider FAFO view has clearly disseminated its way onto Facey/insta where morons have their daily dose of right wing, moon howling shite pumped straight into their susceptible eyes.

Employee Donations:Employees at major tech companies, including Meta (Facebook/Instagram), Google (Alphabet), and Microsoft, overwhelmingly favor Democrats in their political contributions, often by a large margin (80-90% in some cases).

Online Ad Spending: In the 2024 election cycle, Democratic campaigns and their allies spent more than three times their Republican counterparts on political ads on Meta and Google platforms.

January 11

1 minute ago, Threedoorsdown said:

Employee Donations:Employees at major tech companies, including Meta (Facebook/Instagram), Google (Alphabet), and Microsoft, overwhelmingly favor Democrats in their political contributions, often by a large margin (80-90% in some cases).

Online Ad Spending: In the 2024 election cycle, Democratic campaigns and their allies spent more than three times their Republican counterparts on political ads on Meta and Google platforms.

What has any of that at all got to do with the actual content of X, facey or insta?

Just go on them and look or even look at the threads on here peppered with 'news' sites Radio Genoa or Visegrad 24.

Right wing shite pumped out by morons who as it transpires have a fairly similar hot take on the cold blooded murder in Minneapolis the other day as you seem to be suggesting.

January 11

36 minutes ago, Threedoorsdown said:

Trump was elected partly on the policy of mass deportations. He has followed through on this policy and people are hellbent on opposing it using criminal means.

It’s amazing that democracy only seems to count when it’s in the lefts favour.

Have you got a degree in stating the bleeding obvious?

No-one is arguing that Trump wasn't elected on an anti illegal immigration policy.

However, the last time I checked, people in the USA are still allowed to protest against that, or any other government policy, just as people in the UK were allowed to protest against Thatcher's poll tax.

An unarmed woman was shot three times and killed by an agent of the state. The circumstances of why that happened or why it was allowed to happen is the point of the discussion.

As for your last point about democracy, what the hell was January 6th all about?

Edited January 11 by Footballfirst

January 11

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

What has any of that at all got to do with the actual content of X, facey or insta?

Just go on them and look or even look at the threads on here peppered with 'news' sites Radio Genoa or Visegrad 24.

Right wing shite pumped out by morons who as it transpires have a fairly similar hot take on the cold blooded murder in Minneapolis the other day as you seem to be suggesting.

What has a political organisation spending millions on social media content have to do with the content on social media? Really?

The left spends far more on propaganda than the right. This is indisputable.

Dangerous political rhetoric exists from both left and right online.

January 11

11 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Have you got a degree in stating the bleeding obvious?

No-one is arguing that Trump wasn't elected on an anti illegal immigration policy.

However, the last time I checked, people in the USA are still allowed to protest against that, or any other government policy, just as people in the UK were allowed to protest against Thatcher's poll tax.

An unarmed woman was shot three times and killed by an agent of the state. The circumstances of why that happened or why it was allowed to happen is the point of the discussion.

As for your last point about democracy, what the hell was January 6th all about?

You haven’t read the thread have you?

Jan 6th was wrong. It was dangerous and people should be held accountable.

Edited January 11 by Threedoorsdown

January 11

1 minute ago, Threedoorsdown said:

What has a political organisation spending millions on social media content have to do with the content on social media? Really?

The left spends far more on propaganda than the right. This is indisputable.

Dangerous political rhetoric exists from both left and right online.

Im genuinely not sure if you are being serious?

You'll need to explain the correlation between individuals donating to any political party and folk spending on advertising with Randy from Nebraska posting that she was a dangerous dyke ho who got what was coming?

You know where views like that come from? Trump, Vance and Goebbels Barbie this week.

January 11

7 minutes ago, Threedoorsdown said:

You haven’t read the thread have you?

Jan 6th was wrong. It was dangerous and people should be held accountable.

So your last point about democracy and the left was wrong?

January 11

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

Im genuinely not sure if you are being serious?

You'll need to explain the correlation between individuals donating to any political party and folk spending on advertising with Randy from Nebraska posting that she was a dangerous dyke ho who got what was coming?

You know where views like that come from? Trump, Vance and Goebbels Barbie this week.

Sure.

That view and the wider FAFO view has clearly disseminated its way onto Facey/insta where morons have their daily dose of right wing, moon howling shite pumped straight into their susceptible eyes.

I was highlighting that you are far more likely to run into left leaning propaganda on the sites you mentioned than left leaning.

Also moderation on these sites will be skewed left leaning due to the companies being made up predominately of left leaning ideology.

January 11

5 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

So your last point about democracy and the left was wrong?

Nearly 1,600 people were arrested and charged as a result of January 6th.

Had they been shot I would not be on here defending them.

Had it been one person I’m certain they would have been shot.

I believe in the rule of law. And I believe the officer acted lawfully based on the videos I seen.

Edited January 11 by Threedoorsdown

January 11

3 minutes ago, Threedoorsdown said:

Sure.

That view and the wider FAFO view has clearly disseminated its way onto Facey/insta where morons have their daily dose of right wing, moon howling shite pumped straight into their susceptible eyes.

I was highlighting that you are far more likely to run into left leaning propaganda on the sites you mentioned than left leaning.

Also moderation on these sites will be skewed left leaning due to the companies being made up predominately of left leaning ideology.

Here's the bleeding heart liberal, leftist, woke owner of X

January 11

11 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Here's the bleeding heart liberal, leftist, woke owner of X

You’re making a related point, but it doesn’t refute the evidence I presented.

January 11

1 hour ago, Threedoorsdown said:

Their dearest leader? Suggesting this woman played a massive part in her death does no equal supporting Trump.

Straw man tactics to make yourself seem morally superior.

The woman was an idiot. She made poor choices and now she’s dead. Time to move on.

I repeat - nothing she did constituted a death sentence. The US police’s own guidelines state that in black & white.

January 11

Just now, boag1874 said:

I repeat - nothing she did constituted a death sentence. The US police’s own guidelines state that in black & white.

I repeat - in America if you drive your car in the direction of armed federal agents whilst fleeing detainment you put yourself at risk of being shot.

January 11

49 minutes ago, Threedoorsdown said:

Nearly 1,600 people were arrested and charged as a result of January 6th.

...... by a radical lefty administration ........ and pardoned by a radical right president, right?

January 11

2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

...... by a radical lefty administration ........ and pardoned by a radical right president, right?

January 6th does not give carte blanche to absolve people of their responsibility to protest in a peaceful, law abiding manner.

Two wrongs does not a right make.

January 11

7 minutes ago, Threedoorsdown said:

I repeat - in America if you drive your car in the direction of armed federal agents whilst fleeing detainment you put yourself at risk of being shot.

She wasn’t at risk of even injuring the guy, she full locked the wheel as far away from him as possible, she wasn’t driving at speed & he could have simply stepped out the way - you could argue with the same logic you’re using that he put himself into harms way and was “asking” to be run over - I don’t believe that’s true either. The US police’s own guidelines state that the use of deadly force should be a last resort if theres a threat to life.

January 11

Any reasonable person, whatever side of the political spectrum should see it for what it was. Cold blooded murder.

The woman started driving away from a stationery position with her wheels turned right, away from the agents.

She wasn't using her car as a weapon, she was trying to drive away from the situation.

January 11

23 minutes ago, boag1874 said:

She wasn’t at risk of even injuring the guy, she full locked the wheel as far away from him as possible, she wasn’t driving at speed & he could have simply stepped out the way - you could argue with the same logic you’re using that he put himself into harms way and was “asking” to be run over - I don’t believe that’s true either. The US police’s own guidelines state that the use of deadly force should be a last resort if theres a threat to life.

We are going around in circles. She was responsible for her own death.

January 11

2 hours ago, Threedoorsdown said:

Trump was elected partly on the policy of mass deportations. He has followed through on this policy and people are hellbent on opposing it using criminal means.

I’ll repeat this until I’m blue in the face. If everyone acted the way this lady did, society would collapse within hours.

It’s amazing that democracy only seems to count when it’s in the lefts favour.

Hitler was elected too, mate. He was pretty hot on mass deportation anaw as it transpired. I'd imagine he had a few homo's shot in the face as well.

Edited January 11 by il Duce McTarkin

January 11

10 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

Hitler was elected too, mate. He was pretty hot on mass deportation anaw as it transpired. I'd imagine he had a few homo's shot in the face as well.

Germany didn’t have 42,5000 foreign nationals with criminal records living there. 15,811 of these have sexual offences on their record.

It certainly didn’t have 13,000 foreign born murderers in the country.

it also didn’t have a further nearly 250,000 foreign nationals with pending criminal trials.

The officer that was involved is actually married to a Pilipino legal migrant.

It’s a very lazy analogy you make.

Edited January 11 by Threedoorsdown

January 11

17 minutes ago, Threedoorsdown said:

Germany didn’t have 42,5000 foreign nationals with criminal records living there. 15,811 of these have sexual offences on their record.

It certainly didn’t have 13,000 foreign born murderers in the country.

it also didn’t have a further nearly 250,000 foreign nationals with pending criminal trials.

The officer that was involved is actually married to a Pilipino* legal migrant.

It’s a very lazy analogy you make.

:yas:

But is he married to a Filipino lesbian?

Edited January 11 by il Duce McTarkin

January 11

5 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

But is he married to a Filipino lesbian?

Such an odd response. You are flapping.

January 11

1 hour ago, Threedoorsdown said:

Germany didn’t have 42,5000 foreign nationals with criminal records living there. 15,811 of these have sexual offences on their record.

It certainly didn’t have 13,000 foreign born murderers in the country.

it also didn’t have a further nearly 250,000 foreign nationals with pending criminal trials.

The officer that was involved is actually married to a Pilipino legal migrant.

It’s a very lazy analogy you make.

Where did you get those numbers from?

January 11

1 hour ago, Threedoorsdown said:

We are going around in circles. She was responsible for her own death.

Yes! She shot herself 3 times in the ****in head!

January 11

8 minutes ago, Tazio said:

Where did you get those numbers from?

Do they surprise you? Have a Google the info is all there.

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