U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[Justin Z]

Just now, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

 

The primaries weren't rigged.

 

They were 100% rigged, else why go to court over the right to rig them? Active voter suppression took place in various states, with hours-long lines in places like universities while retirement community voters could waltz in and out of their polling places.

 

1 minute ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

You were mad at Warren for NOT dropping out.

You were mad at Centrist Democrats FOR dropping out.

You can't have that both ways, especially when you've also claimed that Warren wasn't a progressive (yes, she is).

 

Warren is not progressive, she is a fake progressive much like Obama ran as in 2008. That doesn't mean she doesn't peel progressive votes (yes, she does).

 

Yes, I can have that both ways, because it was exactly what the Dem establishment devised to torpedo Sanders' campaign. And I was a bigtime Warren supporter once.

 

2 minutes ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

You failed to account for the fact that Bernie Sanders made bad choices in who he had around him in his inner circle.

 

Joe Biden is against legalising marijuana. The State of Mississippi just voted, in referendum, to legalise marijuana. The State of Mississippi is to the left of Joe Biden.

 

Any bad choices Sanders made—because no campaign is perfect—pale in comparison.

 

3 minutes ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

You failed to account for the fact that Bernie Sanders' people managed to piss off Warren and her supporters because they had no interest in building a bigger tent.

 

Warren being a 🐍 and lying about Sanders wasn't likely to engender a lot of good feelings. Neither is this on him, the same guy who agreed to drop out and go campaign like mad for Joe Biden because he actually cares about beating Trump. He, and those around him, absolutely had an interest in building a bigger tent, and always have. The corporate-right Dem establishment won't ever have any of it.

[Sharpie]

14 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

I am reading that based on exit polling, the Black male vote for Trump increased from 13% to 18% from 2016 to 2020. Black female vote, 4% to 8%.

 

Black turnout seems to be down, so that means that what's supposed to be a major base of the Dem vote just didn't show up, and what reason did they have to? If it is not 100% a sign that the Democrats offered absolutely nothing to make people want to vote for them, I don't know what is.

 I guess though Trump offered much that may have prompted them to vote against him.

[Cruyff]

10 minutes ago, redjambo said:

Biden edges ahead in Michigan.

Thank ***. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

59 minutes ago, Gone said:

 

Heard somewhere earlier that theyve been way out both times due to Trump voters being quiet about voting him for whatever reasons

There are companies who earn a living out of polling a 1000 people and offering it as an example of how 100m people will vote.

 

Polling has been exposed so many times in the UK. Exit polls are the only thing worth listening to.

[SwindonJambo]

11 minutes ago, redjambo said:

Biden edges ahead in Michigan.

Just seen that. Good stuff 👍

 

Dems 4/7 on. Repubs 3-1 against now.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 minutes ago, weehammy said:

Your hero Sanders is very late 70s and has already suffered a heart attack. With Biden and Pelosi also in the geriatric category can the Democrats not put forward any credible people who might reasonably be expected to be still breathing in a year or two?

The whole system is a joke. I get that you need to be a certain age before you take on a position like this but the presidency has become coffin-dodger central

[Cruyff]

Hopefully Trump will concede like a gent instead of trying to cling on to power like some despot nut job....🙄 Along with some Incendiary tweets getting his supporters to come out fighting. 😬

[Justin Z]

Just now, weehammy said:

Your hero Sanders is very late 70s and has already suffered a heart attack. With Biden and Pelosi also in the geriatric category can the Democrats not put forward any credible people who might reasonably be expected to be still breathing in a year or two?

 

If that choice remains up to the current establishment, I seriously doubt it. For what it's worth, I always considered Bernie to be a one-term president who would likely bring an up-and-comer into the fold.

[Cruyff]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

The whole system is a joke. I get that you need to be a certain age before you take on a position like this but the presidency has become coffin-dodger central

Is running for President not just - whoever can raise the most funds, gets the nomination?

It's usually just crusty old made white dudes with the exception of the great Obama. 

[Sooperstar]

Pennsylvania not expecting to finish their count until early next week.

[Costanza]

6 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

They were 100% rigged, else why go to court over the right to rig them? Active voter suppression took place in various states, with hours-long lines in places like universities while retirement community voters could waltz in and out of their polling places.

 

 

Warren is not progressive, she is a fake progressive much like Obama ran as in 2008. That doesn't mean she doesn't peel progressive votes (yes, she does).

 

Yes, I can have that both ways, because it was exactly what the Dem establishment devised to torpedo Sanders' campaign. And I was a bigtime Warren supporter once.

 

 

Joe Biden is against legalising marijuana. The State of Mississippi just voted, in referendum, to legalise marijuana. The State of Mississippi is to the left of Joe Biden.

 

Any bad choices Sanders made—because no campaign is perfect—pale in comparison.

 

 

Warren being a 🐍 and lying about Sanders wasn't likely to engender a lot of good feelings. Neither is this on him, the same guy who agreed to drop out and go campaign like mad for Joe Biden because he actually cares about beating Trump. He, and those around him, absolutely had an interest in building a bigger tent, and always have. The corporate-right Dem establishment won't ever have any of it.

I truly wish that Sanders had won the Democratic ticket and ultimately the presidency and agree that the Democratic Party torpedoed Sanders chances.

However if you are voter from the Centre or the left and angered about that and don't particularly like Biden, it still makes no sense to not vote for Biden.

 

It's essentially what Noam Chomsky was saying, Trump with his environmental stance and opting out of the Paris agreement is an existential threat to human existence.

It made no sense to me, to do anything other than vote for the non Trump candidate.

[Cruyff]

2 minutes ago, Barack said:

You pulled your big boy pants on now, after your earlier episodes?😄

 

Told y'all to trust the Prez.

 

😎

What did you say, 308 Biden?

Just kidding. Glad he's getting over the line but I expect the fall out could be horrendous. 

[GBJambo]

2 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

Pennsylvania not expecting to finish their count until early next week.

Really? How does it take so long? 
Serious question btw! 

[Bongo 1874]

 

[Justin Z]

8 minutes ago, Costanza said:

I truly wish that Sanders had won the Democratic ticket and ultimately the presidency and agree that the Democratic Party torpedoed Sanders chances.However if you are voter from the Centre or the left and angered about that and don't particularly like Biden, it still makes no sense to not vote for Biden.

 

I absolutely agree with this but that's not my point. My point is that most voters don't even think about it this much. The game of electoral politics is about broad appeal and energising the masses. Joe Biden had/did neither.

 

8 minutes ago, Costanza said:

It's essentially what Noam Chomsky was saying, Trump with his environmental stance and opting out of the Paris agreement is an existential threat to human existence.

It made no sense to me, to do anything other than vote for the non Trump candidate.

 

Fully agree with this too, and yet Biden wouldn't commit to a fracking ban. So likewise, the people who do think about this stuff, to this level—that's demotivating for them as well.

 

Overall I'm just saying, Dems gave people absolutely nothing to come out and vote for them, for. Whether that's rational is not, is not what I'm on about.

 

Edit to add: Also, I think there's an excellent case that the most rational thing regarding the environment, continued human existence, etc., is to not support electoralism in the United States at all, because it's an oligarchical farce.

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by Justin Z

[Cruyff]

3 minutes ago, Barack said:

I got loads of shit wrong. But my hit rate was better than some pollsters.

 

Had Arizona from the start. 

 

Who knew counting was hard...🤔

You certainly were. The polls were all wrong tbh and that is the only indicator really for anyone. I think it is over for them unless they increase their margin of error to 7-8%, even if they do become a bit irrelevant. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

15 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

Pennsylvania not expecting to finish their count until early next week.

 what an abomination of a country 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

It’s completely insane that every postal vote wasn’t received and counted in time for polling day. That’s the whole fecking point of it. What a shambles 

[Costanza]

1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

 

I absolutely agree with this but that's not my point. My point is that most voters don't even think about it this much. The game of electoral politics is about broad appeal and energising the masses. Joe Biden had/did neither.

 

 

Fully agree with this too, and yet Biden wouldn't commit to a fracking ban. So likewise, the people who do think about this stuff, to this level—that's demotivating for them as well.

 

Overall I'm just saying, Dems gave people absolutely nothing to come out and vote for them, for. Whether that's rational is not, is not what I'm on about.

Fair enough, I'm not anywhere near close to what the average US voter thinks but I guess I just can't fathom why anyone with the slightest interest in politics would countenance not trying to stop Trump.

Biden is very much an establishment politician who won't change the status quo much but there was a hope Sanders base would move him on some issues but he'll likely if elected, be a Starmer to Corbyn and drop a lot of the progressive policies.

The fascination for Sanders for me was on his populist policies (polling indicated a lot of support for his views on health care etc.) against America's weird obsession with "socialism".

 

[Cruyff]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 what an abomination of a country 

Nevada has only counted about 67% as well. Think Pennsylvania is about 64% count at the minute. 

[Maple Leaf]

24 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Hopefully Trump will concede like a gent instead of trying to cling on to power like some despot nut job....🙄 Along with some Incendiary tweets getting his supporters to come out fighting. 😬

 

 

Funny post!

[Cruyff]

1 minute ago, Barack said:

What's raised my eyebrows, are two things:

 

1) 300k votes still "somewhere" that weren't counted in Florida (Miami-Dade) in particular. And the USPS basically refusing a Federal Judge to search for them.

 

2) The amount of Trump's circle (the most hated Senator's or Congressmen) despite millions being poured in against them, and were supposedly meant to be competitive States, easily won their races. 

 

Done now though.

Was Florida the State where G. W. Bush had dead folk voting for him when he faced Al Gore?  

 

[Cruyff]

Just now, Maple Leaf said:

 

 

Funny post!

It has to be in his best interests to play nice, surely? 🤔 

If not, they might just put him in jail for causing grief. 

[Maple Leaf]

3 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

It has to be in his best interests to play nice, surely? 🤔 

If not, they might just put him in jail for causing grief. 

 

He will never concede even if Biden is ahead in the EC at the end of the week.  He will unleash an army of lawyers to initiate court challenges in every swing state he lost, and unleash a flurry of Tweets to fire up his cult members.

 

He'll never go to jail on anything.

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

He will never concede even if Biden is ahead in the EC at the end of the week.  He will unleash an army of lawyers to initiate court challenges in every swing state he lost, and unleash a flurry of Tweets to fire up his cult members.

 

He'll never go to jail on anything.

 

[Cruyff]

7 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

He will never concede even if Biden is ahead in the EC at the end of the week.  He will unleash an army of lawyers to initiate court challenges in every swing state he lost, and unleash a flurry of Tweets to fire up his cult members.

 

He'll never go to jail on anything.

I think you could be right. He's just tweeted. 

 

[Justin Z]

 

[Sooperstar]

21 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

It’s completely insane that every postal vote wasn’t received and counted in time for polling day. That’s the whole fecking point of it. What a shambles 

I don't think we count ours until the day either, to avoid any risk of numbers being released which could compromise the integrity of the election. I might be wrong though.

[Justin Z]

3 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

I don't think we count ours until the day either, to avoid any risk of numbers being released which could compromise the integrity of the election. I might be wrong though.

 

Yeah, and that's fair enough. My vote was marked as received and counted on Monday when I checked the website for my county in Arizona, so I guess they are willing to take that risk, whereas other states may feel differently and have their laws set up accordingly.

[Boston Jambo]

On 02/11/2020 at 10:05, EH11_2NL said:

 

 

Trump has never lost, he's lied, cheated, conned, all his life but he doesn't take to losing.

He wiped the floor with seasoned politicians, so much that he took over their party.

No one dared challenge him for the nomination for a second term, they never even dared asked him his agenda.

He beat Clinton, and showed throughout his first term just how bad he is, how ineffective, and unstable.

You would think that after seeing this a percentage of the American voters would see through him, but no, he's as strong as ever.

Should Biden get the required 270, this is going to the courts. 

A man like that doesn't accept defeat.

It's going to be ugly.

 

 

 

[Captain Slog]

1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

 

Yeah, and that's fair enough. My vote was marked as received and counted on Monday when I checked the website for my county in Arizona, so I guess they are willing to take that risk, whereas other states may feel differently and have their laws set up accordingly.

Just noticed 99% of Arizona counted now, and its swung blue, thank goodness you boys played your part

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

 

Yeah, and that's fair enough. My vote was marked as received and counted on Monday when I checked the website for my county in Arizona, so I guess they are willing to take that risk, whereas other states may feel differently and have their laws set up accordingly.

 

The very fact that votes are counted, and the results released, in the eastern States while the polls are still open in the western States seems counter to election integrity, imo.

[Boston Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Yeah, and that's fair enough. My vote was marked as received and counted on Monday when I checked the website for my county in Arizona, so I guess they are willing to take that risk, whereas other states may feel differently and have their laws set up accordingly.

Massachusetts hasn't counted mine yet, not that it affects the outcome. We were 67% Biden.

[Justin Z]

2 minutes ago, Captain Slog said:

Just noticed 99% of Arizona counted now, and its swung blue, thank goodness you boys played your part

 

I've never felt prouder of my wee avatar, tbh

[Ray Gin]

Arizona

 

 

[Captain Slog]

Just now, Justin Z said:

 

I've never felt prouder of my wee avatar, tbh

Oh wow, i never noticed.  Ive just taken the liberty of sending it to some Merkin friends that were cheering Arizon on - thank you

 

[And he’s not praying!]

Hold firm, Nevada.

 

A little too close for comfort.

[Ray Gin]

Lots of tweets that the gun may have been jumped in Arizona - Trump still in with a chance.

 

[Jamhammer]

Bernie Sanders predicted what would happen with Trump 2 weeks ago.

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by Jamhammer

[SwindonJambo]

2 minutes ago, And he’s not praying! said:

Hold firm, Nevada.

 

A little too close for comfort.

Nevada is a bit wafer thin. Can @Justin Z reassure us with knowledge of individual counties? The Dems won it last time too.

[And he’s not praying!]

1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

Lots of tweets that the gun may have been jumped in Arizona - Trump still in with a chance.

 

The Republicans firmly believe they still have a chance in both Arizona and Nevada.

[I P Knightley]

2 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

Justin - what happens if it's a tie?

 

I caught that it would go down to one vote per state but not how it works and the likely winner.

 

Can you enlighten, please?

No extra time. Straight to penalties.

 

1 hour ago, King prawn said:

There was me thinking he liked the Italian cars

Me too, based on his old avatar of a 1950s Alfa Romeo Giuletta (?) and the way he spells it Alfa not Alpha.

[Justin Z]

6 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

Arizona

 

5 minutes ago, Captain Slog said:

Oh wow, i never noticed.  Ive just taken the liberty of sending it to some Merkin friends that were cheering Arizon on - thank you

 

[Justin Z]

2 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

Nevada is a bit wafer thin. Can @Justin Z reassure us with knowledge of individual counties? The Dems won it last time too.

 

If the Clark County (Las Vegas) postal votes are all that's left, we'll see the exact same thing happen in Nevada as happened in Michigan, Wisconsin, etc.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

2 minutes ago, And he’s not praying! said:

The Republicans firmly believe they still have a chance in both Arizona and Nevada.

Don't do this to us USA 

[AndyNic]

Trump going on a rant on Twitter.

 

Glorious stuff

 

 

[Lovecraft]

3 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

No extra time. Straight to penalties.

 

 

Trump and Biden have a dance off.

 

If that's draw too, a naked wrestle in virgin blood.

 

 

[SwindonJambo]

2 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

If the Clark County (Las Vegas) postal votes are all that's left, we'll see the exact same thing happen in Nevada as happened in Michigan, Wisconsin, etc.

 

That seems to be most of what remains. Phew! Ta Justin.

 

There are 1.4m postal votes still to be counted and added to the Pennsylvania vote and the bookies are making the Dems firm favourites there.

 

[And he’s not praying!]

Just now, SwindonJambo said:

 

That seems to be most of what remains. Phew! Ta Justin.

 

There are 1.4m postal votes still to be counted and added to the Pennsylvania vote and the bookies are making the Dems firm favourites there.

 

My concern was borne from the democrat share shrinking from when I last checked before going to bed.

 

I’d assumed the postals had started to be counted and was concerned upon seeing the numbers closing.

 

 

[I P Knightley]

2 minutes ago, And he’s not praying! said:

The Republicans firmly believe they still have a chance in both Arizona and Nevada.

I'm struggling to get on top of which states are certain and which aren't yet. On the analysis I'm looking at, it tells me that less than 85% of votes in Arizona have been counted with 51% being Biden and 47.6% Trump. Echoing Fred MacAulay's gag about Scotland in competition, "mathematically, there's a chance he can qualify." (To the tune of 'you're going home in a ####### ambulance.')

 

Yet, North Carolina, with 97.6% of votes counted is not yet declaring (albeit with a slightly tighter margin than AZ). Georgia has a similar margin to Arizona with nearly 95% of votes counted but they're not declaring.

 

What's going on in that daft place??