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On The Trail: Making sense of Super Poll Sunday

Pollsters left it all on the field this weekend in a last-minute survey blitz that offered one final snapshot of the race for the White House.

 

Different polls can show widely divergent results: Surveys conducted in the past week have found Sen. Joni Ernst (R-Iowa) leading her challenger, Democrat Theresa Greenfield, by as much as six points — or trailing by as much as six points.

But 48 hours before the polls – the ones that actually count – close, a deep dive into what is likely to be the final significant data dump of the year shows some of the trends that have defined this election cycle.

Here are the takeaways from a mammoth day in polling:

Biden leads across most swing states

Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden leads in the swing states that will get him to 270 electoral votes, and by substantial margins.  

Biden leads all six surveys of Michigan voters released this weekend, and he tops 50 percent in four of them. He leads all five surveys of Wisconsin voters, by margins of three to eleven points.

And he is ahead in five of six surveys of Pennsylvania voters released in the last two days, by margins of four to seven points; the lone exception is an InsiderAdvantage poll that has President Trump up two.

The Democratic nominee is also ahead of the Republican incumbent in three of four polls of Arizona voters and four of six surveys in Florida, two states that are essential to Trump’s path to a second term. 

 Trump is by no means guaranteed defeat, but he is clearly in worse position now than he was four years ago. Polls over the last weekend before the 2016 contest showed Trump trailing by slimmer margins in Michigan and Pennsylvania, and leading by a substantial margin in a state like Georgia.

This weekend's polls also showed Biden closer to or over the 50 percent mark nationally and in some battleground states, a point Hillary Clinton never managed to reach in 2016.

One significant difference: Polls tend to show Libertarian and Green Party candidates collecting higher shares of the vote than they actually end up with on Election Day. 

Four years ago, support for former New Mexico Gov. Gary Johnson, the Libertarian Party nominee, collapsed in the final days as Trump appeared to capture much of Johnson’s support.

This year, neither minor party has a candidate who has captured anything like the attention Johnson or Green Party nominee Jill Stein received in 2016. That suggests the polls are a better reflection of reality, and less likely to miss some kind of hidden support that could break late for one candidate or the other.

Biden is building a new coalition

Biden’s lead comes from some unlikely groups — those who voted for Trump four years ago.

In key swing states and nationally, Biden leads among independents, white voters with a college degree, voters in the suburbs and seniors, all groups that favored Trump in 2016 and Mitt Romney in 2012.

Shifts among white voters with a college degree have been especially stark. In 2016, Trump led Hillary Clinton among those voters by six in Arizona, eight points in Michigan, 12 points in Wisconsin and 27 in Florida.

Polls released this weekend show Biden leading among college-educated whites by three to 15 points in Arizona, 27 points in Michigan, 26 points in Wisconsin and four points in Florida. 

Among independents, Trump beat Clinton in Georgia, Arizona, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin by margins ranging from three points to 16 points.

Over the weekend, Biden polled ahead of Trump among the demographic in every survey released in those states by margins ranging from six points in an Emerson poll in Georgia to 28 points in a Muhlenberg College poll in Pennsylvania. 

It’s always important to remember that subgroups — like seniors or college-educated whites — are smaller samples that carry larger margins of error than the complete samples polled.

What’s notable, though, is the breadth of the shift. Biden improves on Clinton’s performance in every single state and every single poll for which data on those subgroups was released.

We don’t know if these shifts are part of a long-term political realignment — frankly, “long-term” isn’t a terribly durable concept in an era in which five of the last seven elections have been waves. But Biden is setting up what looks like an historic coalition. 

Older voters are skeptical of Trump

No Democrat has won senior voters since Bill Clinton’s re-election bid in 1996. But Joe Biden is doing much better among voters eligible to collect Social Security than any of his recent predecessors.

Take Pennsylvania, a state President Trump won by only about 44,000 votes in 2016. He beat Clinton among seniors by ten percentage points, according to exit polls, 54 percent to 44 percent.

Four polls released this weekend all show Biden leading among the oldest cohort. He’s ahead among seniors by four points in the Muhlenberg College poll, by six in an Emerson survey, by 12 in a Siena College poll conducted for the New York Times, and by 15 points in a Washington Post/ABC News poll. 

In Florida, Trump won seniors by a 57 percent to 40 percent margin. This weekend, Emerson and Siena both showed Biden leading, by eight and two points respectively. 

There are signs that Trump’s lackluster response to the coronavirus pandemic has hurt him most among seniors, the population most vulnerable to the worst outcomes of COVID-19.

State and national polls show seniors think Biden would do a better job handling the pandemic; those same polls also show seniors believe Biden would do a better job handling the economy. 

Trump has not helped himself in recent weeks. After his own diagnosis, he urged Americans not to let the virus dominate their lives. That didn’t resonate well with seniors who very much do fear the virus, and who have missed grandchildren for the last seven months because of it.

Biden is limiting losses

Biden’s campaign is doing well among those groups mentioned above that voted for Trump in 2016. But there is movement, too, among groups that still favor Trump.

Clinton’s performance among white voters who did not attend college in 2016 was abysmal, the end result of a long-term realignment of blue collar Americans who no longer vote the way their unions advise — probably because they no longer belong to a union.

She lost among non-college educated whites by more than 20 points in Wisconsin. She lost the demographic by more than 30 points in Pennsylvania, Florida, Michigan and North Carolina. 

Polls this weekend show Biden losing those voters too — but by relatively slimmer margins. Polls show Biden losing those voters by about five points in Wisconsin, 15 points in Michigan, 20 points in Pennsylvania and by 25 in Florida. Big margins, to be sure — but not as bad as Clinton’s margins.

Pay attention to exit polls on race

Here’s one silver lining for Trump: In some swing states, he’s doing better among non-white voters than he did four years ago, in spite of a long history of stoking racial tensions.

Polls this weekend showed Trump winning between 18 percent and 20 percent of the non-white vote in Pennsylvania, up from the 16 percent he won in 2016; in Ohio and Michigan, Emerson polls showed Trump improving on his 2016 standing among non-whites by seven points. 

There’s not much indication that Trump has improved among Black voters specifically, despite his focus on an unemployment rate among Black Americans that dropped to its lowest rate since the Bureau of Labor Statistics began keeping track.

Trump takes just eight percent of the Black vote in a CNN poll released over the weekend, about the same share as he collected there in the 2016 exit polls. 

Polls of Hispanic voters in Florida are all over the place. In 2016, Trump won 35 percent of those voters in a state where the Hispanic population includes traditionally conservative people of Cuban and Venezuelan descent.

An Emerson poll released this weekend showed Trump receiving just 21 percent of the Hispanic vote; a survey conducted by St. Pete Polls, a local outlet, had Trump claiming 46 percent of the vote among Hispanics. 

Contra to Trump’s gains with non-white voters, Biden is doing better among white voters — and especially Southern white voters — than Clinton did. Polls this weekend show Biden outperforming Clinton’s vote share among whites in Georgia by eight points, North Carolina by four to eight points, and Florida by eight points.

Up north, Biden is holding Trump’s advantage down among white voters. In Wisconsin, Trump won whites by 11 points in 2016; he leads by six in a CNN poll this weekend. In Michigan, Trump’s 21-point advantage from 2016 is now a one-point lead for Biden. And in Pennsylvania, where Trump won whites by 16 four years ago, he’s now up by four points in the Washington Post-ABC poll and by eight in the Muhlenberg College poll.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/523926-on-the-trail-making-sense-of-super-poll-sunday

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John Gentleman
16 hours ago, kila said:

It is quite mental.

 

Trump is going to try and declare a landslide victory... he'll probably go for something entirely unbelievable like 92%. But whatever he says, his supporters will deny any Biden victory and start a civil war.

 

Quite concerned about what's likely to happen in the US these coming days.

 

Trumpashenko?

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15 minutes ago, Barack said:

Who's staying up to watch the potential shit-show?* I will be. Along with my American friend, Jack Daniels. 

 

*This can mean for either candidate. Or Country as a whole.

 

I'd like to, but can't for work reasons. I'll probably get up early on Wednesday and have it in in the background. Please America FFS dump Trump into the cesspit of history. Biden's no great shakes but surely has to be better than Bawjaws.

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Sawdust Caesar
7 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

The Shy Trumpets are giving me the fear

A pollster who correctly predicted Trump's win in 2016 has again predicted a Trump win. He states his polls are completely anonymous so Trump supporters are happy to declare that they will vote for him. He reckons other polls don't offer total anonymity and the so-called Shy Trump voters will say they will vote Democrat when they will really vote Republican when they are completing these other polls.  His methods have been called in to question by other pollsters stating that he is like a broken clock and will get it correct every now and then but will be wrong more often. I've got that horrible, nagging feeling he will end up being right again.

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1 minute ago, Sawdust Caesar said:

A pollster who correctly predicted Trump's win in 2016 has again predicted a Trump win. He states his polls are completely anonymous so Trump supporters are happy to declare that they will vote for him. He reckons other polls don't offer total anonymity and the so-called Shy Trump voters will say they will vote Democrat when they will really vote Republican when they are completing these other polls.  His methods have been called in to question by other pollsters stating that he is like a broken clock and will get it correct every now and then but will be wrong more often. I've got that horrible, nagging feeling he will end up being right again.

If he is, democracy in America will come to an end. Goodness forbid.

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Kalamazoo Jambo
8 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

The Shy Trumpets are giving me the fear


I don't really believe in the 'Shy Trumper' theory. But I do believe in polling error, especially in such an unusual year.

 

Still think Biden will likely win the electoral college, but it's not a 'gimme'. Too many states may come down to just a tiny margin, and the courts are skewed heavily in Trump's favour when the legal challenges start coming in.

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If the pollsters have it wrong for the second presidential election in a row, they should just shut up shop, as no-one will want to hear from them ever again.

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I can watch it real time here in Cayman. A lot of my American friends on island can't stand either candidate. Trumpet is an imbecile and Biden is too old and too left :lol:. I've never bothered with the American election before but I'll be breaking out the popcorn for this one. Biden by a whisker please please just to see the craziness, seethe and the machinations after it!

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Eldar Hadzimehmedovic

Naive and setting myself up for a fall but I've read a few things about how polling has been refined since 2016, particularly around education levels, which wasn't given enough credence before. Apparently one of the biggest voting indicators now. Don't really know how they do that but some of the pollsters seemed a bit more confident about identifying the issue and correcting it. 

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2 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

Naive and setting myself up for a fall but I've read a few things about how polling has been refined since 2016, particularly around education levels, which wasn't given enough credence before. Apparently one of the biggest voting indicators now. Don't really know how they do that but some of the pollsters seemed a bit more confident about identifying the issue and correcting it. 

 

Yeah, it's been talked about frequently. 

If they get it wrong it's going to be really interesting to hear how they try to correct a correction. 

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Eldar Hadzimehmedovic
Just now, Barack said:

Simple terms:

 

Non-College educated white men = thick as shit. Vote Trump.

 

Non-College educated white women = thick as shit. Vote Trump.

 

 

 

 

 

😄

 

That's basically it. Lower education correlates strongly with leaning right and higher with leaning left. 

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3 minutes ago, Barack said:

Simple terms:

 

Non-College educated white men = thick as shit. Vote Trump.

 

Non-College educated white women = thick as shit. Vote Trump.

 

 

 

 

 

People who would like America to go back to the way it was in the 1950s = vote Trump.

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Eldar Hadzimehmedovic
1 minute ago, Barack said:

Yeah, seen various things confirming the predominant factors. I'm polled out, quite honestly. And it's not even our election.

 

I'd like to go back to America. Hope I can. Because I won't under an Autocracy.

 

 

 

Which really does make you think. What a threat to the democratic process that is. You also have half the politicians in any jurisdiction with a vested interest in absolutely gutting education, as we've already seen they'll do with abandon.  

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15 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

Which really does make you think. What a threat to the democratic process that is. You also have half the politicians in any jurisdiction with a vested interest in absolutely gutting education, as we've already seen they'll do with abandon.  

 

In the meantime, China has dramatically increased its focus on education, with the equivalent of one new university per year opening.

 

More importantly, China is stressing STEM graduates (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics) and had 4.7 million STEM graduates last year.  This is an area where the US once excelled, but has been now surpassed by both China and India.  The USA had around 500,000 STEM graduates last year.

 

Probably off-topic in a Trump thread.

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J.T.F.Robertson

 

First national election anywhere I've ever been genuinely nervous about.

I dread to think of the consequences if this nutter is pronounced the loser, maybe even moreso than if he wins.

 

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23 minutes ago, Barack said:

CNN for me. FOX if you want it called early for Trump.

 

MSNBC, if Rachel Maddow is doing it, and you like a bit of incredulous face making from your host.

 

BBC if you want Shug Edwards.

CNN for me, but better put new batteries in the remote as I will be flipping channels from close to midday Tuesday our time to some time Wednesday. I don't anticipate anything to dramatic by Tuesday night but Wednesday could get exciting.

 

Edited by Sharpie
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Mac_fae_Gillie
3 hours ago, Sawdust Caesar said:

A pollster who correctly predicted Trump's win in 2016 has again predicted a Trump win. He states his polls are completely anonymous so Trump supporters are happy to declare that they will vote for him. He reckons other polls don't offer total anonymity and the so-called Shy Trump voters will say they will vote Democrat when they will really vote Republican when they are completing these other polls.  His methods have been called in to question by other pollsters stating that he is like a broken clock and will get it correct every now and then but will be wrong more often. I've got that horrible, nagging feeling he will end up being right again.

This has been a thing of the last major elections and votes of the last 10years or so, many too ashamed to admit thier true voting intention.. Saw it in Indy vote where if your not voting for Indy you were a traitor so many just lied, saw it in Brexit where if you declared for Brexit you where a racist, saw it with Trump where voting for a complete bampot is just daft so no one wanted to admit it except real bampots..

Hence Polls been wrong for a decade, maybe the swing here is to much to overturn but Dems really should be pressing those slack voters who think its won..

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11 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

The Shy Trumpets are giving me the fear

 

Funny things, these silent majorities. They don't half bang on about it.

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46 minutes ago, Barack said:

CNN for me. FOX if you want it called early for Trump.

 

MSNBC, if Rachel Maddow is doing it, and you like a bit of incredulous face making from your host.

 

BBC if you want Shug Edwards.

If you want any semblance of impartiality. The other 2 are just mouthpieces for hard-right and right-as-well-but-pretend-they-re-not.

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I'm taking Wednesday off.  Planning on sitting up getting pissed watching the US implode.

 

Biden wins, there will be trouble

 

Trump wins, there will be trouble.

 

Not clear on the night - which is probably won't be.  Trump will claim it, there will be trouble.

 

81iy83sOKvL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

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The final polls

Joe Biden really is in pole position

President Donald Trump will enter election day with much worse odds than he had in 2016

IN SOME WAYS, this presidential election has been remarkably dull, at least for a psephologist.

(Never seen that word before, had to look it up.)
 

Quote

Psephology is a branch of political science, the "quantitative analysis of elections and balloting".

 
There have been plenty of unpredictable events and attention-grabbing news stories in 2020, but only a few have affected voters’ intentions.

Over the past six months the initial economic collapse caused by the spread of coronavirus, the nationwide protests over George Floyd’s death, the parties’ conventions and the first presidential debate have changed voters’ minds only a little.

Most of the time, that change has been to the benefit of Joe Biden, who started to open a lead in April and has not looked back since. According to The Economist’s forecast model, he has a 19-in-20 chance of winning the election.

Our analysis of presidential-election polls going back to 1948 shows that Donald Trump has set a record among incumbent presidents for the lowest and most stable average share of the two-party vote (ie, excluding candidates other than the Republican and Democratic contenders) in national polls.

By this measure, since June 1st Mr Trump’s support has never climbed above 47%, and has hovered much closer to 45% for most of that time. The only other incumbent presidents to approach this poor showing were George H.W. Bush and Jimmy Carter, who won only 47% and 45%, respectively, of the two-party vote and failed to be re-elected (another was Harry Truman, whose upset victory in a thinly polled race has become a cautionary tale of the perils of prognostication).

That is not good company for Mr Trump to be in.

These numbers alone would normally be enough for most pundits to conclude that Mr Trump’s campaign is doomed. Few believed that John McCain had a real shot against Barack Obama at this point in 2008, with polls showing him suffering the same deficit that Mr Trump has today.

But the high-profile misfire of the polls in 2016, when surveys in the Midwest underestimated Mr Trump’s support by five points or so, has made observers more cautious about predicting the president’s defeat.

There are several reasons to put more stock in the polls this time, however.

The first is that there are fewer undecided voters this year than in 2016. That makes a last-minute surprise less likely. According to new polls from NBC News and the Wall Street Journal, just four out of every hundred voters either support a third-party candidate or will be making their mind up on election day, down from 16% in their final poll in 2016.

Other polls have also shown a reduction in the share of undecided voters. Comparing five polls from the same firms in 2016 and 2020, the percentage of Americans who support one of the two major-party candidates has increased by seven percentage points on average, to 96%. This decreases the chance that Mr Trump can win over many undecided or third-party voters before they cast their ballots.

Another point is that polls have been extraordinarily stable over this election cycle. According to The Economist’s number-crunching, the standard deviation (a measure of how much a number jumps around over time) of Mr Biden’s share of the two-party vote since mid-June was just 0.9 percentage points.

That’s meaningfully lower than the 1.3-point deviation in Mrs Clinton’s vote share in 2016. This suggests that the preference for Mr Biden is stickier than it was for Mrs Clinton, again making last-minute changes in the race less likely.

Mr Biden’s strength in the polls also makes this cycle different. On election day in 2016 our election-forecasting model would have given Mrs Clinton just under a three-percentage-point advantage in the national polls (she won by two).

It also put Mr Trump ahead in Florida and North Carolina (which she lost), and assigned her just a four-point margin on average in the northern battlegrounds of Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania (which she lost by about one point each).

Compare that to Mr Biden’s eight-to-nine point national lead, his two-to-three point margin in the sunbelt battlegrounds and eight-point average lead in the northern ones.

Odds on


No presidential candidate in a race with so many polls has ever overcome the scale of deficit that Mr Trump faces today, just hours before polling stations open. His problems are magnified by the fact that nearly 100m ballots have already been cast.

Mr Trump’s best hope is that the polls are dramatically, systematically wrong. There is some precedent for this. In 2016 many pollsters in the northern battlegrounds made a methodological error that underestimated support for Mr Trump. Pollsters usually have to adjust their data to be demographically representative of the population as a whole. Imagine that in a pollster’s sample of likely voters, 50% do not have a bachelor’s degree.

But according to the Census Bureau, in 2016 the share of voters without a four-year degree was 60%. So to get a representative sample, more weight must be given to this group. In 2016 many pollsters simply did not adjust their data for this bias, causing them to undersample white voters without college degrees who favoured Mr Trump but were less likely to take phone surveys than the typically better-educated supporters of Mrs Clinton.

Many of the pollsters that made this mistake in 2016 have fixed the problem now. Moreover, higher-quality national polling firms such as YouGov, which often conducts surveys on behalf of The Economist, have been focusing on state-level estimates with a higher frequency this year. Take Wisconsin, for example.

Whereas high-quality online or live-interview phone pollsters released only two public surveys of the state over the last two weeks of the race in 2016, there have been seven published in the same period so far this year. More will come in before polls close on Tuesday. That will markedly improve the precision of pollsters’ assessment of the race, especially in these final days.

Mr Trump’s second-best shot at the White House is to exploit the legal fight over which early and postal ballots the states are legally permitted to count. In a close election, the judiciary may be responsible for deciding what to do with ballots that might very well change the outcome.

In the past two weeks, the president has won two big court victories in Wisconsin and Minnesota, which are now not allowed to count postal ballots that arrive after election day—even though election officials had told voters they would be permitted.

Such restrictions will probably be a disadvantage for Joe Biden who, according to YouGov, enjoys a roughly 40-point margin with voters who chose to vote by mail. However, Mr Trump has also lost two similar challenges over ballots in Pennsylvania and North Carolina. That muddies the picture of how the Supreme Court might decide matters in a narrow race.

On the eve of the election, Mr Trump has only a small chance of winning if all the ballots are counted. If the polls are even remotely right, and the processing and counting of ballots proceeds without interference, he is likely to become America’s latest one-term president.

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2020/11/01/joe-biden-really-is-in-pole-position

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Riddley Walker
4 hours ago, Barack said:

Who's staying up to watch the potential shit-show?* I will be. Along with my American friend, Jack Daniels. 

 

*This can mean for either candidate. Or Country as a whole.

 

I'm gonna stay up and watch. Bottle of gin for me. Tuesday Wednesday off work. Child getting babysat. Can't wait.

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13 minutes ago, Riddley Walker said:

 

I'm gonna stay up and watch. Bottle of gin for me. Tuesday Wednesday off work. Child getting babysat. Can't wait.

 Thats the benefit of living on the West Coast of North America everything in the east we get at a nice time of the day. I won't.have to stay up late to get the late results, and when I get up in the morning it may even be time to celebrate because other than the shouting it will all be over.

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1 hour ago, Barack said:

CNN for me. FOX if you want it called early for Trump.

 

MSNBC, if Rachel Maddow is doing it, and you like a bit of incredulous face making from your host.

 

BBC if you want Shug Edwards.

 

I don't subscribe to Fox or MSNBC so it will have to be CNN and that tedious Wolf Blitzer.

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Anybody see the irony in the White House accusing Anthony Fauci of 'playing politics'? The same White House who with zero expertise have constantly stepped into his field all of this year.  Playing scientist.

Of course Trump knows more about everything than any "stupid scientist" knows about anything including his own field of expertise. Bring out the bleach.

 

Covid: White House accuses top scientist Fauci of 'playing politics'

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Just now, Captain Slog said:

Someone just placed one million on Biden according to the BBC

Bloody Hell!!!! Trump hedging his bets?

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Another indication that Trump will not leave without a fight, even if he loses.  So much for democracy.

 

In another ominous comment, the President said that as soon as voting was over in states like Pennsylvania, "We're going in with our lawyers,"

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Captain Sausage

Biden to win in a landslide. 
 

Hopefully a big enough win that it negates any real claim Trump will make that ‘it’s rigged’. 

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1 minute ago, Captain Sausage said:

Biden to win in a landslide. 
 

Hopefully a big enough win that it negates any real claim Trump will make that ‘it’s rigged’. 

 

It doesn't matter how clear the victory is, this isn't a normal human being far less a normal president. He would dispute it if he lost every state. What's worrying many is that he's demented enough to fire up the crazies before January 20th.

Some people have visions of widespread gun violence and even militias ringing the White House supported by the crazy inside. A large part of it is his fear of losing the shield of the office. At which point the law will come gunning for him.

He's abused every single significant office. Justice Department, FBI, CIA, even IRS. That's a powerful coalition to piss off. Plus if we have a president Biden in the White House think of the mindless lies he has been throwing at Biden and his family. That was personal stuff not political.

Trump is shitting himself.

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The period of time,  the state of flux and the hysteria between election night and the final postal vote results is a recipe for carnage.  There's going to be at least one major incident of some form.  

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1 hour ago, PnG said:

A hiding for Biden.

 

Trumps winning this.

 

If you're a betting man, you should find yourself a bookie.  He will give you very attractive odds against that happening.

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Sawdust Caesar

Can't believe he is still playing Fortunate Son at his rallies. Has no one told him what the song is about? It's fitting, though.

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21 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

If you're a betting man, you should find yourself a bookie.  He will give you very attractive odds against that happening.

 

I don't think political betting is allowed in the US. But as you well know you can bet on anything in the UK. Invent any bet you like they will give you odds.
 

Quote

One person placed £1m on Biden, Betfair said, in the biggest political bet of all time. If Biden wins, the player will bag £1.54m.

 

Not good odds. Doubt I would be risking a million on  odds like that but presumably this is a wealthy professional gambler who has decided it's an easy half million profit.

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Kalamazoo Jambo
16 minutes ago, Sawdust Caesar said:

Can't believe he is still playing Fortunate Son at his rallies. Has no one told him what the song is about? It's fitting, though.


Yes - JOHN FOGERTY has!

 

 

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1 hour ago, Barack said:

:jjyay:

 

 

Screenshot_20201102-202803_Twitter.jpg

 

My favourite part about this is how they had months to challenge this leading up to now. Could've argued it was not fit for purpose for any number of reasons, well before it was deployed. Crickets.

 

This is the most cynical attempt yet to invalidate people's votes, blatantly and openly. **** them, I'm glad even this Trump-appointed judge if I recall correctly, smacked it the **** down.

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1 minute ago, weehammy said:

Trump’s campaign has  had ‘cease and desist’ orders from several musicians re. playing their songs without permission (Stones, Neil Young). I think they just ignore these.

 

Would you believe there's an entire Wikipedia article on it? :lol:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musicians_who_oppose_Donald_Trump's_use_of_their_music

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Just now, weehammy said:

It remains a total mystery to me that a country as technologically advanced as the US that shouts about its democracy so often cannot seem to organise an election. I don’t know of any European democracy where voters have to stand in line for hours or where blatant attempts are made to deny people their right to vote.

 

Agree 100%. The thing is, people are saying things like “this surely must put a dent in the legitimacy of America's democracy” or whatever and the truth is, it's not been legitimate for a long time, if ever it was.

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  • Kalamazoo Jambo changed the title to U.S. Politics megathread (title updated)
  • Maple Leaf changed the title to U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

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