U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[trotter]

[The Internet]

Why didn't they just shoot the lake? Call themselves Americans 

[Justin Z]

In addition to the cult of Trump, good old fashioned American selfishness is why we're nowhere close to having any control over this virus, especially as compared to much of the rest of the world.

All 3 Universal Orlando Resort parks at capacity for second day in a row

 

It’s a busy holiday weekend for Orlando’s theme parks. Universal Orlando Resort announced that Universal Studios, Islands of Adventure and Volcano Bay are all at capacity for the second day in a row.

. . .

At Walt Disney World, reservations are not available for Saturday or Sunday, the park said on its website.

 

 

[jake]

Have any black American Trump supporters been murdered recently?

Last one was July.

Not that we heard much about it.

 

[JFK-1]

The warning signs that the cult of Trump wont go quietly. There's almost bound to be chaos and perhaps widespread anarchy. A couple of quotes from the article i'm about to post.

"When I asked Leo Walker, a 68-year-old retiree at the rally, whether the president’s backers would publicly protest a Biden victory, he said,

“They’ll do more than that. They will take the country back.” By force? “They will take the country back. There’s no doubt in my mind.” Trump, Walker said, “can do no wrong.” 

“We’re seeing an historic spike in gun sales. There’s some of the worst polarization in United States history. This is beyond a powder keg. This is the Titanic with powder kegs filled all the way to the hull.”

 

Quote

 

The Warning Signs of a Combustible Presidential Transition

 

LATROBE, Pennsylvania—President Donald Trump has long signaled that if he loses reelection, it would surely be illegitimate. With his base primed to believe that victory is the only acceptable outcome, the post-election period could be the most combustible in memory.

This wrenching summer—and the Trump rally I attended here yesterday—provides a grim preview of what the weeks after the November 3 vote could look like, with a subset of Trump’s supporters already showing that they’re prepared to advance his interests in the streets.

When I asked Leo Walker, a 68-year-old retiree at the rally, whether the president’s backers would publicly protest a Biden victory, he said, “They’ll do more than that. They will take the country back.” By force? “They will take the country back. There’s no doubt in my mind.” Trump, Walker said, “can do no wrong.”

The weeks after the election could be “a very dangerous period” for the country, says Miles Taylor, a former senior official in the Homeland Security Department, whose agents were deployed to quell recent police-violence protests in Portland, Oregon, against the wishes of the state’s leadership.

Taylor left the agency last year and has since emerged as an outspoken critic of the president. “I talk to law-enforcement officials all the time who I used to serve with, and they’re nervous about November and December,” he continued.

“We’re seeing an historic spike in gun sales. There’s some of the worst polarization in United States history. This is beyond a powder keg. This is the Titanic with powder kegs filled all the way to the hull.”

 

Faced with civil unrest, a president’s job at the most basic level is to calm things down. That’s not Trump’s style. He’s called the Black Lives Matter movement a “Marxist group,” ignoring its role in fighting racism.

He defended 17-year-old Kyle Rittenhouse after he was charged with killing two people during demonstrations in Kenosha, Wisconsin, last week.

On the opening night of their presidential-nominating convention, Republicans gave a speaking role to Patricia and Mark McCloskey, the wealthy white homeowners who pointed guns at Black Lives Matter protesters who marched past their St. Louis property.

On Twitter, Trump cheered the arrival of his supporters who showed up in Portland to counter prolonged protests there.

The president has also stoked confrontation beyond the demonstrations over police violence and systemic racism. In the spring, he tweeted a demand to “liberate” Michigan, Virginia, and Minnesota, three states with Democratic governors who’d imposed measures aimed at curbing the spread of the coronavirus.

Armed protesters showed up at Michigan’s state capitol in May objecting to Governor Gretchen Whitmer’s stay-at-home orders. They’ve also turned up in Texas to defend businesses that have opened in spite of the orders.

“It’s absolutely terrifying,” says Rosa Brooks, a former Pentagon official in the Obama administration who’s been running war-games-style exercises about the election outcome.

“People who study political violence have been warning for a long time that conditions that we’re seeing in the United States resemble those that you see in countries that slide all the way down into civil conflict. We’re only going further down that chute.”

Should the election drag on or should their candidate lose, Trump’s most aggressive supporters might consider it a patriotic act to publicly contest what they see as a fraudulent election. That’s one scenario Brooks has been weighing through her work with the Transition Integrity Project, which includes dozens of former government officials and political strategists from both parties.

After holding exercises to game out a potential post-election crisis, one conclusion the group reached was that “President Trump and his more fervent supporters have every incentive to try to turn peaceful pro-Biden (or anti-Trump) protests violent in order to generate evidence that a Democratic victory is tantamount to ‘mob rule,’” as was described in a recent report. (Atlantic staff writer David Frum is a participant in the project.)

In interviews at the rally here yesterday afternoon, Trump supporters told me a Biden victory is so implausible that it could come about only through corrupt means. Latrobe sits in a county where Trump defeated Hillary Clinton four years ago by a 2–1 margin, and no one I spoke with thought Trump was in any real danger of losing this race either.

Walker spoke of a potential “revolution” were that to happen. “He ain’t got a prayer,” Walker said of Biden. “He can only win with fraud.

“That’s the only prayer, and that will cause the third and final revolution in this country,” he added, citing the Revolutionary War and the Civil War.

Before I entered the airplane hangar where the rally was held, I spoke with John and Michele Urban, a couple from Latrobe, as they waited in line to get inside.

“Either way, there’s going to be turmoil,” Michele Urban said. “A revolution. I’d never thought I’d live to see it. I’m 66 years old.” Her husband, 68, told me:

“Democrats have sealed their own fate. They’ve proven they’re not true Americans. They’re not for this country, and they’re not for our freedom. We’re just not going to take it any more. Trump is a godsend.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/trump-biden-transition-could-be-volatile/616054/

 

 

[Carl Fredrickson]

30 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

In addition to the cult of Trump, good old fashioned American selfishness is why we're nowhere close to having any control over this virus, especially as compared to much of the rest of the world.

All 3 Universal Orlando Resort parks at capacity for second day in a row

 

It’s a busy holiday weekend for Orlando’s theme parks. Universal Orlando Resort announced that Universal Studios, Islands of Adventure and Volcano Bay are all at capacity for the second day in a row.

. . .

At Walt Disney World, reservations are not available for Saturday or Sunday, the park said on its website.

 

 

 

Not having a go at you JZ but I understood all the parks are open with reduced capacity and social distancing in place. This is stated in both your links so it may be no different from say Edinburgh Castle or the Odeon cinema being open here but are at full capacity (which is the reduced limit). I was in Florida in September 2013 and the busy days at the parks werent rammed (missed the holiday, might have been Labor Day?). I would hope that the parks are full to the new capacity and not to the "normal" capacity. 

 

[Beni]

Someone is surely trolling trump at his latest speech by sitting a pumpkin just behind him. 😂

 

[JFK-1]

Where the System May Break

A war-game exercise simulating the 2020 election unmasked some key vulnerabilities.

JULY 31, 2020

David FrumStaff writer at The Atlantic
 

Quote

 

On the same morning that the United States government reported the steepest economic collapse in U.S. history, President Donald Trump mused on Twitter about postponing the 2020 election. Trump is getting desperate, more desperate by the day. What might he do? What should Americans fear?

Earlier this summer, 67 former government officials and academic students of government gathered over four sessions of the nonpartisan Transition Integrity Project to analyze those questions.

They included Michael Steele, a former chair of the Republican National Committee; John Podesta, the former White House chief of staff who chaired Hillary Clinton’s 2016 campaign; former Republican members of Congress; and a host of former elected officials, government staffers, consultants, and even journalists. I joined two of the sessions.

The sessions began with scenarios of what might happen on Election Day—a big Biden win, a narrow Biden win, a Trump win in the Electoral College coupled with a loss in the popular vote—and then played war games to ponder what might follow.

he goal was not to make predictions, but rather to test scenarios and identify potential weak points in the system. The approach is common in the national-security world, but has not often before been applied to domestic politics.

The organizers of the event will in time produce a formal report on the results. But in light of the president’s ominous tweet yesterday, it’s worth summarizing some of what we found, while respecting the rules under which the event was held—which allowed for the disclosure of the substance of the exercise, but not what individual participants said.

The good news is that Trump cannot postpone the election or the next presidential inauguration; he has no means to do either of those things. Those dates are set by law or in the text of the Constitution.

Nor can Trump somehow cling to power after Inauguration Day once the electoral vote is certified against him. If the Electoral College certifies Joe Biden the winner when its votes are counted in Washington, D.C., on January 6, then at noon on January 20, Donald Trump ceases to be president.

His signature loses all legal effect, the officer carrying the nuclear football walks away, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff does not take his call.

The bottom line: There do exist outer legal boundaries to the mischief that can be done by even the most corrupt president.

The bad news is that there is a lot of mischief that can be done within the legal boundaries by a determined president, especially with the compliance of the attorney general and enough political allies in the state capitals.

The worst news is that, faced with presidential lawlessness, few of the participants at the Transition Integrity Project found effective responses. The courts offered only slow, weak, and unreliable remedies.

Street protests were difficult to mobilize and often proved counterproductive. Republican elected officials cowered even in the face of the most outrageous Trump acts.

Democratic elected officials lacked the tools and clout to make much difference. Many of the games turned on who made the first bold move. Time after time, that first mover was Trump.

And even in the scenarios in which Biden’s team eventually won—that is, secured possession of the White House at noon on Inauguration Day, 2021—Team Trump by then had thoroughly poisoned the political system.

It diverted public resources to Trump personally.

It preemptively pardoned Trump associates and family members, and tried to pardon Trump himself from criminal charges including money laundering and tax evasion.

It intentionally tried to cause long-term economic damage so as to prevent early economic recovery—and boost Republican chances in the 2022 elections.

It destroyed, hid, or privatized public records.

It tried to sabotage the census to favor Republican redistricting after 2020.

It refused to cooperate with the incoming administration during the transition period, in ways that aggravated both the pandemic response and economic recovery.

And it sowed pervasive mistrust in the integrity of U.S. elections in ways that would polarize and embitter U.S. politics long after 2020.

Despite the president’s personal unpopularity as measured by polls, Trump’s side possessed—and used—important tactical advantages.

Those advantages start with the institutional powers of the presidency, notably the power to federalize the National Guard and take military control of state voting sites. They include also the asymmetry of the U.S. party system, and especially the fiercer team-mindedness of Trump loyalists and pro-Trump media.

The most persistent and powerful advantage, however, was the overconfidence of the legally minded Biden team that the Trump team would respect some norms and limits on its behavior. That expectation was again and again refuted by experience.

All of this, again, was just a tabletop exercise, specifically designed to test extreme scenarios—not a prediction of how things will play out. Perhaps everything will go smoothly. But as the president suggests postponing the election, it’s important to understand the hazards ahead, and the timelines and decision points that may prove crucial.

The voting period

The days of early voting, Election Day itself, and then the period of vote-counting that will follow offer fruitful possibilities for mischief.

 

In one of our scenarios, the attorney general sent federal marshals backed by the National Guard to seize vote-by-mail ballots, triggering a constitutional catastrophe that delayed the outcome of the count for weeks.

Local Republican officeholders have wide scope to burden voting by what they deem undesirable voters, especially ethnic minorities. The Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department has more or less entirely abandoned the field of voting rights. In the Trump era, the division has shifted its effort toward litigating in support of claims of religious discrimination.

 

In the exercises, when the vote went against Trump, his team tried to convince his supporters that they had been robbed—and that they were therefore entitled to take extreme, even violent, actions.

In our exercises, however, the game-winning strategy was to goad the other side into violence. This was particularly true for Team Trump, whose supporters already fear violence from anarchists and antifa.

 

The meeting of electors in the states

 

Under current law, all disputes over vote-counting are supposed to be resolved by December 8, 2020. The electors are supposed to convene on December 14 in their state capitals, where they will sign their electoral ballots. The days from December 8 to December 14 offer Team Trump the last clear chance to alter the outcome.

 

In some of our scenarios, local Republican officeholders sowed enough confusion to justify sending two slates of electors to Washington to be adjudicated. That was a high-risk tactic that did not usually pay off, but could tempt some pro-Trump state governments.

 

The meeting of electors in Washington, D.C.

 

This normally ceremonial event is scheduled for January 6, 2021. It will be presided over by the incumbent vice president, Mike Pence. We tested what might happen in a close result—one in which the Republicans hold on to the Senate and Trump falls short of an Electoral College majority by just a single state’s vote—if Pence somehow tried to insist that the pro-Trump slate of electors was valid.

This did not usually work. Pence was a weak link in the Trump team, too concerned about his own future and his own reputation to go all-out in the way the core Trump team wanted.

Generally, once we got past the December 8 date, the Trump team’s options for keeping power dwindled to zero. What was left then was scorched-earth self-enrichment, self-protection, and spite.

The transition of power

 

The Obama administration took office amid a national crisis in January 2009, after what is generally regarded by experts as the smoothest and most successful transition in presidential history.

The outgoing Bush team kept the Obama team closely informed about decision making after the financial crisis struck in October 2008—and the incoming Obama team scrupulously followed the “one president at a time” rule of crisis management.

 

Nothing like that can be expected this winter. Instead, we are likely to see a recurrence of 1932–33, when the defeated Herbert Hoover tried to sabotage the incoming Roosevelt administration in hopes of preparing his own comeback in 1936.

Trump will soon be fantasizing about running again in 2024. If his health does not permit it, his children may envision a dynasty of their own. These are not realistic plans.

The Trump brand will be toxic in U.S. politics after the catastrophes of 2020. But the Trump inner circle will not believe that—and its members may hope that if they can cause Biden to stumble out of the gate, they will benefit.

 

The Bush administration helped the Obama administration to be ready on day one. The Trump administration may not return that courtesy. In one of our scenarios, Trump moved permanently to Mar-a-Lago the day after the election and never returned to the White House again.

The whole government had to operate around a lame-duck president who simply refused to do any work at all.

 

But we also discussed whether Trump’s need to satisfy his ego and his desire for money might not cause him to foment a transition-season crisis—especially one that would gain him some credit with Russia or the oil states.

Post presidential Trump will face extreme legal and business troubles, including the ruin of the hospitality industry. The flow of payments to his businesses from U.S. taxpayers, from Republican campaigns, from favor-seeking corporations, and from foreign governments will all cease.

 

What would Trump do to maximize his cash flow before it stops? As lurid as our imaginations were over the four days of disaster planning, on this question, at least, we probably underestimated the dangerous possibilities.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/how-2020-election-could-go-wrong/614842/

 

 

[JFK-1]

Be great if soldiers (suckers, losers) could decline to go into battle in case rain disheveled their hair.

D Day? Too wet boss. Got my hair to think about here.

 

Quote

The Atlantic's editor-in-chief said Sunday that reporting about President Trump’s comments denigrating fallen U.S. service members has only just begun.
 

"I would fully expect more reporting to come out about this and more confirmation and new pieces of information in the coming days and weeks," Jeffrey Goldberg said on CNN's "Reliable Sources."

"We have a responsibility, and we're going to do it regardless of what he says," Goldberg added. 

Trump has strongly denied the Atlantic report, which centered on his canceled trip to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery near Paris in 2018.

The magazine reported Trump canceled the trip because he worried his hair would be disheveled by the rain.

FULL ARTICLE

 

[Sharpie]

19 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

Be great if soldiers (suckers, losers) could decline to go into battle in case rain disheveled their hair.

D Day? Too wet boss. Got my hair to think about here.

 

 

Certainly not how it was when I was a soldier, mind you that was way back in the old days when men were men, and real men didn't cry, I have sure put the blooter on that myth. You know JFK it is actually really unfortunate that you are so firmly against ever being an American, especially at this time ,like they called the movie, they need a A Few Good Men. We disagreed over something Trump said, but you do a lot of work and I respect anyone who works that hard to establish their opinion.

[Justin Z]

2 hours ago, Carl Fredrickson said:

 

Not having a go at you JZ but I understood all the parks are open with reduced capacity and social distancing in place. This is stated in both your links so it may be no different from say Edinburgh Castle or the Odeon cinema being open here but are at full capacity (which is the reduced limit). I was in Florida in September 2013 and the busy days at the parks werent rammed (missed the holiday, might have been Labor Day?). I would hope that the parks are full to the new capacity and not to the "normal" capacity.

 

No I know, and that's true, but unlike in Scotland we've never gotten our numbers down to where even social distancing is really all that viable. We should still be in lockdown but we're just pretending.

[JFK-1]

40 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

You know JFK it is actually really unfortunate that you are so firmly against ever being an American, especially at this time ,like they called the movie, they need a A Few Good Men.

 

It doesn't come down to being disgusted by the very thought of it in any way. I simply don't see the point. When I first came here and was going through the process of getting a green card even the lawyer I had working on it said the same thing.

I asked him if he thought I should apply for citizenship when it became available which I think is after 5 years. After just a moments thought he said he didn't see the point in it and especially so for someone who didn't come from a poor backward nation, not an economic migrant.

And he also stated that the reality was I was probably better off where I was rather than here. And if you do it and decide to go home look out for them trying to continue taxing you even while living in your homeland.

I asked if he could think of any worthwhile point in doing it. After another pause for thought he said that all he could think of was that they wouldn't be able to deport me if I committed a major crime. If you're not going to commit a major crime I see no point says he.

On the other hand my American wife would be far keener to get British citizenship. That does imbue tangible major benefits health care being a biggie but not the only one.

[Cade]

We used to ask "How come more US Presidents aren't more like Jimmy Carter?"

Now we're asking "How did Jimmy Carter ever win the Presidency?"

[JFK-1]

Twitter deletes Trump retweet. Now They're Saying Only 9,000 Died of Coronavirus.
 

 

[J.T.F.Robertson]

2 hours ago, Sharpie said:

Certainly not how it was when I was a soldier, mind you that was way back in the old days when men were men, and real men didn't cry, I have sure put the blooter on that myth. You know JFK it is actually really unfortunate that you are so firmly against ever being an American, especially at this time ,like they called the movie, they need a A Few Good Men. We disagreed over something Trump said, but you do a lot of work and I respect anyone who works that hard to establish their opinion.

 

A digression, Bob, but hope you're getting by as well as anyone can be expected to.

 

Best, Jim

 

[Sharpie]

1 hour ago, JFK-1 said:

 

It doesn't come down to being disgusted by the very thought of it in any way. I simply don't see the point. When I first came here and was going through the process of getting a green card even the lawyer I had working on it said the same thing.

I asked him if he thought I should apply for citizenship when it became available which I think is after 5 years. After just a moments thought he said he didn't see the point in it and especially so for someone who didn't come from a poor backward nation, not an economic migrant.

And he also stated that the reality was I was probably better off where I was rather than here. And if you do it and decide to go home look out for them trying to continue taxing you even while living in your homeland.

I asked if he could think of any worthwhile point in doing it. After another pause for thought he said that all he could think of was that they wouldn't be able to deport me if I committed a major crime. If you're not going to commit a major crime I see no point says he.

On the other hand my American wife would be far keener to get British citizenship. That does imbue tangible major benefits health care being a biggie but not the only one.

 

Those are circumstances one who is not there never hear about. My sister was in the States for many years before she took out citizenship and I believe she did so for pension purposes, and there was something to do with her children at school. where citizenship raised its head. She lived with the dream that some day she would return to Edinburgh and do her messages in the afternoon with her message bag, and blether with the other women. just like her mother did. That was not to be a dream that died with her. Her husband for whom she made what was a sacrifice thanked her by becoming  a recurring alcoholic, and exposing her to a life of difficulty. Lifes funny I come to Canada with my Canadian wife who actually was quite happy in Scotland. My life changed as I did, and I became ambitious and was successful, I am I would say now totally Canadian, have been a citizen for years, but strangely enough my son has been mandated to bring my and my wifes remains back to Edinburgh to be spread in a favorite spot.

[Sharpie]

Just now, J.T.F.Robertson said:

 

A digression, Bob, but hope you're getting by as well as anyone can be expected to.

 

Best, Jim

 

 

I am looking after myself pretty well, I am cooking my own meals, based on memories from my mothers kitchen many years ago. I am very lonely, very sad and when I think of Esther tears roll pretty good. The funeral home send me a booklet on grieving which is very good, it reassures you that to be sad and tearful at the loss of  which in my case was a sixty two year love affair is natural and in fact good for you, but I sit on the computer and suddenly think oh she will be asking me how long I am going to be there, then remember she is not here. Its not easy, but I am not the first nor will I be the last to suffer the pain.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

2 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

 

I am looking after myself pretty well, I am cooking my own meals, based on memories from my mothers kitchen many years ago. I am very lonely, very sad and when I think of Esther tears roll pretty good. The funeral home send me a booklet on grieving which is very good, it reassures you that to be sad and tearful at the loss of  which in my case was a sixty two year love affair is natural and in fact good for you, but I sit on the computer and suddenly think oh she will be asking me how long I am going to be there, then remember she is not here. Its not easy, but I am not the first nor will I be the last to suffer the pain.

 

Glad to hear the first bit.

I'm both sad and envious of you. Sad for your loss, but also envious of the 62 year love affair you had.

I'm too cynical about life in general, but if there is a purpose of any kind you may well have experienced it.

 

Thinking of you regularly.

 

 

[JFK-1]

11 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

 

Those are circumstances one who is not there never hear about. My sister was in the States for many years before she took out citizenship and I believe she did so for pension purposes, and there was something to do with her children at school. where citizenship raised its head. She lived with the dream that some day she would return to Edinburgh and do her messages in the afternoon with her message bag, and blether with the other women. just like her mother did. That was not to be a dream that died with her. Her husband for whom she made what was a sacrifice thanked her by becoming  a recurring alcoholic, and exposing her to a life of difficulty. Lifes funny I come to Canada with my Canadian wife who actually was quite happy in Scotland. My life changed as I did, and I became ambitious and was successful, I am I would say now totally Canadian, have been a citizen for years, but strangely enough my son has been mandated to bring my and my wifes remains back to Edinburgh to be spread in a favorite spot.

 

I simply have no deep connection with this country and any chance I ever had of forming one has been flushed away by the Trump cult. I can form no deep connection with a country over a third of which regards this deranged sociopath as a 'Godsend"

 

 

And at the end of the day being Canadian isn't exactly a million miles away from being Scottish is it? Hell they even say aboot. But Americans are nothing like Scottish or British people. Trump while being an extreme example is still a feature of a nation that has never been empathetic towards it's own unfortunate and needy.

A trumpet I worked alongside on discovering I wasn't a citizen asked when I was going to become one. When I said never he's stunned. Thinks every human walking the planet would give their right arm for a US passport.

He asks for a reason why so I offer the most diplomatic answer I can come up with. I see no point in it.

And most of my work colleagues understood that. The vast majority were not Trumpets. This guy was unusual in that respect. Most of them would frequently speak of the failings of this nation with healthcare being a huge failing in their view.

Everything in his view is the best the world has ever seen.

They were always fascinated by the healthcare I had in Scotland. You really pay absolutely nothing to see the doctor? Yes, absolutely nothing.

But do you have to wait weeks or months to see him?

No, if i called in before the surgery opened I would usually get an appointment for that day if not the next day. And, if I were too sick to go to him he would come to me.

Home visits??? Unbelievable.

But how much do the prescriptions cost?

Nothing.

But what if there are expensive items on it?

Doesn't matter what's on it. Costs nothing.

But how much does it cost of an ambulance has to come for you?

Nothing.

All of this stuns them. It's like some sort of dream fiction to them. And getting back to the Trumpet he was questioned on why I would bother becoming a US citizen when there's effectively nothing in it for me but hassle and cost.

His reply? Pride. I'm supposed to be proud to acquire a passport anybody who has lived here 5 years can acquire. What an achievement.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

 

Many, not all btw, know nothing of anything, even their own self-inflated history. 

You have to wonder how a country, so richly endowed, ever stumbled its way to the position it has. Ignorance would normally discount any such possibility.

[JFK-1]

20 minutes ago, J.T.F.Robertson said:

 

Many, not all btw, know nothing of anything, even their own self-inflated history. 

You have to wonder how a country, so richly endowed, ever stumbled its way to the position it has. Ignorance would normally discount any such possibility.

 

A feature of it is simply geography. They found themselves on a continent sized land mass replete with natural riches and nothing between them and taking it all but massively outnumbered natives with bows and arrows.

Then while they're conquering it they're far from any great power who might interfere. This could not have happened if they didn't have thousands of miles of ocean on each side to protect them from the great powers of Europe.

Into the 20th century much of the technological success was derived from imported European expertise. When Churchill was striving to get the US into WW2 it wasn't for their science, they had none. Britain gave them radar and proximity fuses, not the otherw ay around.

He wanted their manpower and factories producing the basic weapons of war. Millions of men, thousands of guns, ammunition, tanks, planes etc. That's what they brought to the table and to be fair it was essential and key to the defeat of Nazi Germany

Europeans brought the expertise for the atom bomb, Europeans brought the expertise to build rockets that could take men to the moon.

I don't know what the sense of patriotism was like prior to WW2. But I think following it that sense of patriotism grew to bizarre proportions. They found themselves in a world where all the historic great powers and industrial competition were lying in ruins and bankrupted.

While these nations were bankrupted and in ruins they came out of the war untouched by it and richer than when they went into it. And a world in which they were producing at least 50% of all manufactured goods. This provided the 50's heyday the Republicans have been harking back to ever since.

They imagine that supremacy arose from Americans being so special. When in reality it was a mere accident of history.

When Trump talks of making America great again he too is fantasising back to that period. A world that's gone and can never be brought back.

Moving into the 1960's the rest of the world was recovering from the disaster of the war and American manufacturing dominance was gradually declining. This decline continued through the 70's and 80's right up to the present day as the rest of the world got fully back on track.

Now they're in a world where there is real competition. Just one example being during that 50's heyday their roads were smothered with American built cars. When I look out there now what I see are roads crawling with German and Japanese cars.

While American car manufacturers were focusing on building bigger cars with more shiny chrome. The Germans and Japanese were focusing on actually improving the car.

Better brakes, better fuel consumption, better reliability. And so forth. And now China has an economy every bit as big as they're economy and will soon overtake them to become bigger.

All while Trump thinks the age of American industrial/economic supremacy can be re-established. It can't be. They have to adapt to their new place in the world. And the over the top patriotism is one mental block to adapting to the new circumstances.

Such supremacy never lasts in the modern era. It might have thousands of years ago when the Romans created an empire that was supreme for a thousand years but they too eventually succumbed.

In the modern era it's far more brief  and Britain is a classic example of it. The period between the defeat of Napoleon at the battle of Waterloo marked the beginning of British global hegemony. The height of it lasted maybe a hundred years or so. Severely damaged by WW1 and pretty much completely ended by WW2.

The age of American hegemony is now ending. They had their period in the sun and they have to adapt to new realities. A worrying aspect of it is that major conflict between major powers is a not uncommon feature of these shifts in power.  

[ri Alban]

Seems the majority of nice and very clever people of the USA are tarred by the same shitty brush. Not all Scots are alkies and not all English are snobs. America is a good country with many hard working folk, just like Scotland and England. The Media magnification of the bad, leads to unrest. They should shut off the Oxygen to the Devil that is Trump. 

[redjambo]

@JFK-1: That was a very interesting read. Thank you.

[Sharpie]

I just heard on  news discussion that it may be legal in some States to mail in a vote, and then at some point go to a polling station and check if it has been registered, if not you can vote manually, and the previous mail in vote when processed will not be accepted. The discussion was started with AG Barr he was asked if Trump had committed a crime by suggesting or counselling a man to vote twice. Barr was later criticised for saying I don't know ,what State was it in. Later discussion suggested that some States do allow a voter to check at a polling station if their mail in vote has been registered, if it does not show on the manual voting system they can legally basically enter a second vote, the first mail in vote when processed will not be accepted in the programmed machine. This it seems was clarified because of Barrs apparent absence of knowledge of the voting system, but it was not so, he was asking the State so it could be clarified what their rule was.  Voting twice is a crime under Federal Law, but it would seem that States have some control over how they implement the Federal voting laws. If so and the man was from one of the States that allow this Trump was using that, and stated so, and that was what I heard.

[JFK-1]

The following is a 13+ minutes cut from a new Trump documentary called "#Unfit: The Psychology of Donald Trump " which was first released on September 1st. A friend uploaded it and gave me the link.

The video can't be found with a YouTube search. You need to have the link to see it.

The full documentary is around 84 minutes or so and was created by a group of historians and psychologists. The psychologists come from a group who call themselves 'Duty To Warn'. It refers to a ruling in psychology that they must never diagnose political figures they haven't actually had on the couch so to speak.

These people say that in general that's all very well but in this instance the public actions of Trump on a daily basis pretty much puts on the couch and that's added to by all we know of him from people who have worked with him for decades and even his own family.

They have decided that in the case of Trump the potential consequences are so disastrous they have a 'Duty To 'Warn'

The clip isn't so much going into his psychology though much of the rest of the documentary does. The clip is more focusing on comparisons with equivalent historical figures and pointing out the startling similarities. Right down to small details like pardoning convicted criminals and not because they are innocent.

Watch this then tell me you don't see the striking similarities and the potential disaster that's unfolding before our eyes. And keep in mind the full documentary contains much more than this.
 

 

[The Internet]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Seems the majority of nice and very clever people of the USA are tarred by the same shitty brush. Not all Scots are alkies and not all English are snobs. America is a good country with many hard working folk, just like Scotland and England. The Media magnification of the bad, leads to unrest. They should shut off the Oxygen to the Devil that is Trump. 

 

They're hard working because they're not allowed time off. 

[JFK-1]

5 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

They're hard working because they're not allowed time off. 

 

That's a fact. There is no legal requirement in the US to provide any paid time off. In Britain a minimum 20 days is a legal requirement. A whole 25% of the US working population have no paid time off.

And you have to understand how expensive health insurance is for them. And how even when they have it doctor visits and prescriptions still cost a significant sum.

Many of them are working 2 or even 3 jobs just to keep their heads above water.

[luckydug]

4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Seems the majority of nice and very clever people of the USA are tarred by the same shitty brush. Not all Scots are alkies and not all English are snobs. America is a good country with many hard working folk, just like Scotland and England. The Media magnification of the bad, leads to unrest. They should shut off the Oxygen to the Devil that is Trump. 

All well and good but Trump has the support of millions of 'ordinary' Americans. 

There could well be trouble if Trump loses the election. 

Please don't compare Scotland with America we are nothing like them. 

[Carl Fredrickson]

9 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

No I know, and that's true, but unlike in Scotland we've never gotten our numbers down to where even social distancing is really all that viable. We should still be in lockdown but we're just pretending.

 

I have never got my head round how the US political system works but read this thread every day trying to grasp things. Things look darker than a long, ,long time and I cant see how the US can recover from what has been going on. 

 

The US in general from what I have read have almost been in denial about Covid and wouldnt do a proper lockdown due to the economy.  

 

I hope you and yours keep safe. 

[Sidelight]

The leftists have gambled their chips on a race war.

 

 

[luckydug]

Reading this thread is an eye opener. 

I'm always having a pop and laughing at the absurdity of our Royal family but at least with monarch as head of state we don't lay ourself wide open to people like Trump embarrassing our country. 

One question that I have is about their health care. 

What happens with people who are to poor to afford health insurance who have been severely affected by Covid and have had to be hospitalised ? 

[Willie Hamilton genius]

8 minutes ago, alfajambo said:

The leftists have gambled their chips on a race war.

 

 

You believe Biden's supporters are destroying communities?

You believe Biden is a leftist?

You believe anything Donald Trump says?

[luckydug]

32 minutes ago, Willie Hamilton genius said:

You believe Biden's supporters are destroying communities?

You believe Biden is a leftist?

You believe anything Donald Trump says?

Going by the philosophy of Trump and his supporters everyone in Britain is a communist 🤣🤣🤣

[trotter]

39 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Reading this thread is an eye opener. 

I'm always having a pop and laughing at the absurdity of our Royal family but at least with monarch as head of state we don't lay ourself wide open to people like Trump embarrassing our country. 

One question that I have is about their health care. 

What happens with people who are to poor to afford health insurance who have been severely affected by Covid and have had to be hospitalised ? 

By law hospitals have to treat you until such time as you are able to leave without dying the minute you step outside. Hospital will then send you an invoice in the post for whatever your costs are. Although these are not legally enforceable (they can't garnish your wages for example), it goes on your credit file which can absolutely ruin your life when it comes to getting loans, mortgages, etc. Not to mention the fact that a lot of debt is written off and sold for pennies on the dollar to collection companies who will then try every dirty trick in the book to get you to pay it off in full.

Edited September 7, 2020 by trotter

[luckydug]

2 minutes ago, trotter said:

By law hospitals have to treat you until such time as you are able to leave without dying the minute you step outside. Hospital will then send you an invoice in the post for whatever your costs are. Although these are not legally enforceable (they can't garnish your wages for example), it goes on your credit file which can absolutely earn your life when it comes to getting loans, mortgages, etc. Not to mention the fact that a lot of debt is written off and sold for pennies on the dollar to collection companies who will then try every dirty trick in the book to get you to pay it off in full.

Thanks I just wondered how they would get blood out of a stone. 👍

[jack D and coke]

38 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Thanks I just wondered how they would get blood out of a stone. 👍

There was a program on not that long ago that explained what it costs over there for even the most basic stuff we completely take for granted. Even daft stuff like delivering a baby it was an extra few hundred dollars for them to let you hold the baby after the birth. Absolutely mental and makes you realise how we shouldn’t ever take the NHS for granted. 
It’s something special. 

[Sidelight]

1 hour ago, Willie Hamilton genius said:

You believe Biden's supporters are destroying communities?

You believe Biden is a leftist?

You believe anything Donald Trump says?

a) Some.

b) Does Biden Know?

c) Some.

[luckydug]

4 minutes ago, alfajambo said:

a) Some.

b) Does Biden Know?

c) Some.

It's clear the idea of a leftist in America is anyone who doesn't agree with Trump. 

I've always believed America has rwo Conservative parties. 

That's why so many don't bother voting. 

So many people are unrepresented. 

Dont think I'd bother either if I was unfortunate enough to have to live there. 

[SwindonJambo]

8 minutes ago, luckydug said:

It's clear the idea of a leftist in America is anyone who doesn't agree with Trump. 

I've always believed America has rwo Conservative parties. 

That's why so many don't bother voting. 

So many people are unrepresented. 

Dont think I'd bother either if I was unfortunate enough to have to live there. 

 

I still believe the far from perfect Biden is an upgrade on Trumpet. Liken it to being forced to choose between being drinking your own urine or eating your own faeces. I know what I would choose.

Edited September 7, 2020 by SwindonJambo

[Cade]

Is Biden an ideal candidate? nope.

 

Is he better than Trump? of course.

 

It's a feckin no brainer

[JackLadd]

Quite moving when Biden speaks about his deceased Iraq veteran son, especially in light of the coward Trump's sucker and loser remarks.

[King prawn]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Is Biden an ideal candidate? nope.

 

Is he better than Trump? of course.

 

It's a feckin no brainer

[JimKongUno]

2 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

I still believe the far from perfect Biden is an upgrade on Trumpet. Liken it to being forced to choose between being drinking your own urine or eating your own faeces. I know what I would choose.

 

Eat the poop and wash it down with a nice glass of warm piss. Best of both worlds 

[Maple Leaf]

4 hours ago, luckydug said:

Reading this thread is an eye opener. 

I'm always having a pop and laughing at the absurdity of our Royal family but at least with monarch as head of state we don't lay ourself wide open to people like Trump embarrassing our country. 

One question that I have is about their health care. 

What happens with people who are too poor to afford health insurance who have been severely affected by Covid and have had to be hospitalised ? 

 

I have very little knowledge of the American system but I do have a story.

 

My brother-in-law, aged 55 and unemployed, took ill with what turned out to be lung cancer.  Despite having no insurance, he was admitted to a hospital in Saginaw Michigan. When it was realised that he was terminally ill, the hospital contacted his daughter and insisted that she come and get him.  By this time he was in very bad shape and needing round-the-clock care. She ignored the hospital, who resorted to phoning her almost hourly for several days. To everyone's relief, he died and that solved the problem.

 

The hospital sent her a bill for hundreds of thousands of dollars, which she ignored, and she never heard any more about it.

 

It was a nightmare for everyone involved.  

[SwindonJambo]

48 minutes ago, JimKongUno said:

 

Eat the poop and wash it down with a nice glass of warm piss. Best of both worlds 

 

Thankfully no one like Trumpet would get anywhere near leadership of any major political party in Scotland or the UK.  Not even Boris comes anywhere close to how much of a bullying ,ignorant , overpriveleged, delusional, obnoxious, semi literate, corrupt, abusive, thin skinned, worthless, infantile nasty piece of work like Trumpet.

[Maple Leaf]

13 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

Thankfully no one like Trumpet would get anywhere near leadership of any major political party in Scotland or the UK.  Not even Boris comes anywhere close to how much of a bullying ,ignorant , overpriveleged, delusional, obnoxious, semi literate, corrupt, abusive, thin skinned, worthless, infantile nasty piece of work like Trumpet.

 

Reasonable summary.

[Sharpie]

13 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

Thankfully no one like Trumpet would get anywhere near leadership of any major political party in Scotland or the UK.  Not even Boris comes anywhere close to how much of a bullying ,ignorant , overpriveleged, delusional, obnoxious, semi literate, corrupt, abusive, thin skinned, worthless, infantile nasty piece of work like Trumpet.

 

I apologise sincerely if I am wrong, but from your post do I get the sense you don't really like Trump.

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, luckydug said:

All well and good but Trump has the support of millions of 'ordinary' Americans. 

There could well be trouble if Trump loses the election. 

Please don't compare Scotland with America we are nothing like them. 

I didn't say we were, but if you don't think there's plenty of bams in Scotland, your kidding yourself. 

[SwindonJambo]

19 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

 

I apologise sincerely if I am wrong, but from your post do I get the sense you don't really like Trump.

 

That was me holding back His opponent doesn't exactly inspire either but surely much the lesser of 2 evils. The steady decline (across the political spectrum) of the quality of character of politicians to ascend to high office in the developed World  greatly concerns me. Societies are becoming polarised and adversarial with said politicians often being mere rabble rousers.

Edited September 7, 2020 by SwindonJambo

[Mysterion]

Another good Lincoln Project ad.