U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[Justin Z]

7 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

I’m really confused at what’s happening over there I’ll be honest. This can’t all be Trump’s fault this has surely been building for years?
Also not sure what the Democrats are playing at having another almost unelectable tosser like Biden running. Surely put someone decent up and it’s a tap in? Hilary and now that creep? It was like Labour here they didn’t want to win with Corbyn in the driving seat ffs. I can see Trump winning again tbh. What a state of affairs...

 

Careful now, pointing out these hard truths is "enabling Trump". There can be no criticism of our Dear Leader Biden who will lead us to the Promised Land, because that's not exactly the way Trump Cultists behave towards their Chosen One.

 

7 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

The short answer is the emergence of social media.

 

This has had a massive effect, no doubt. QAnon started as a joke on 4chan, and look at it now. Millions in its thrall. It's mental.

[Justin Z]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

Racism and far-right ideology has been deeply rooted in the USA for years.

It's always been there.

It's just right out in the open now.

 

They have, and Democrats have not just done nothing to address it, they've worsened it, through people like Joe "I wrote the crime bill" Biden and Barack Obama there to quash any sign of progressivism with a few phone calls, whether to primary candidates or NBA players—equal opportunity establishment maintainers. Yet that same establishment are somehow shocked Biden is polling the way he is, when he's among the top politicians to have caused harm to those communities over the past several decades.

 

Quoting Jack again...

  

8 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Surely put someone decent up and it’s a tap in? Hilary and now that creep?

 

This is exactly why I've argued the Democrats know this, and they don't actually care whether they beat Trump or not. They've sabotaged progressives not once, but twice, and have given nothing in policy or platform. Now they're expecting us to vote for their hand-picked candidate again, like we did in quite significant numbers in 2016. And yet got blamed for the loss.

 

**** them.

[ri Alban]

8 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

It's mental, eh.

 

I think most of us over here are looking at America with a similar level of puzzlement.

 

Aye cause electing Boris is much better. 

[jack D and coke]

16 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Aye cause electing Boris is much better. 

No it’s not but by the same token what the actual **** were labour playing at with Corbyn? These really should be the easiest elections ever for any sane person yet they put up these cretins? What are they doing?

[jack D and coke]

24 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

They have, and Democrats have not just done nothing to address it, they've worsened it, through people like Joe "I wrote the crime bill" Biden and Barack Obama there to quash any sign of progressivism with a few phone calls, whether to primary candidates or NBA players—equal opportunity establishment maintainers. Yet that same establishment are somehow shocked Biden is polling the way he is, when he's among the top politicians to have caused harm to those communities over the past several decades.

 

Quoting Jack again...

  

 

This is exactly why I've argued the Democrats know this, and they don't actually care whether they beat Trump or not. They've sabotaged progressives not once, but twice, and have given nothing in policy or platform. Now they're expecting us to vote for their hand-picked candidate again, like we did in quite significant numbers in 2016. And yet got blamed for the loss.

 

**** them.

It’s difficult to believe they really want to actually win. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

22 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Aye cause electing Boris is much better. 

I remember him.

Is he still alive?

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

It’s difficult to believe they really want to actually win. 

 

 

How many people are there like this guy, whose point is spot on? Especially in battleground states? Tens, hundreds of thousands? Millions?

 

It's hard to believe the establishment want to actually win because it isn't true.

[DETTY29]

if Scotland got independence, but not NATO membership I think it is safe to assume there is only one country in the world that would  (edit - consider) to invade us to steal our assets.

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by DETTY29

[redjambo]

8 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

if Scotland got independence, but not NATO membership I think it is safe to assume there is only one country in the world that would invade us to steal our assets.

 

 

Iceland?

[DETTY29]

Just now, redjambo said:

 

Iceland?

Isle of Man....

[redjambo]

Just now, DETTY29 said:

Isle of Man....

 

Bugger, I never thought of them. Any country that can routinely cut the tails off its cats can't be trusted, that's for sure!

[Justin Z]

37 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

if Scotland got independence, but not NATO membership I think it is safe to assume there is only one country in the world that would  (edit - consider) to invade us to steal our assets.

 

  BE COOL, MAN!!

[DETTY29]

41 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Bugger, I never thought of them. Any country that can routinely cut the tails off its cats can't be trusted, that's for sure!

😄

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Aye cause electing Boris is much better. 

 

 

Come back when we have heavily armed, right wing, white supremacist militia's roaming the streets and widespread unrest, rioting, and looting amongst our disenfranchised communities.

[Cade]

EDL, Britain First and various other heidbammers are planning to close the motorway out of Dover this weekend.

A man was arrested for assaulting an asylum seeker on Dover beach. 

A few of them have been arrested after barging into hotels being used as temporary accommodation for asylum seekers and pretending to be officials, demanding to see papers.

 

The arseholes of Little England are out in force and becoming increasingly emboldened and violent.

[maroonlegions]

15 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

 

Come back when we have heavily armed, right wing, white supremacist militia's roaming the streets and widespread unrest, rioting, and looting amongst our disenfranchised communities.

Well, i see a lot of them are getting real cocky and appearing from under the rocks in good old Blighty,,,

 

 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

1 hour ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

I remember him.

Is he still alive?

Hopefully he's in that ditch, like he promised us over a year ago.

[Governor Tarkin]

15 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

Well, i see a lot of them are getting real cocky and appearing from under the rocks in good old Blighty,,,

 

 

 

Good on them.

 

I include you as one of the loons for whom the internet probably hasn't been a good thing.

[Governor Tarkin]

27 minutes ago, Cade said:

EDL, Britain First and various other heidbammers are planning to close the motorway out of Dover this weekend.

A man was arrested for assaulting an asylum seeker on Dover beach. 

A few of them have been arrested after barging into hotels being used as temporary accommodation for asylum seekers and pretending to be officials, demanding to see papers.

 

The arseholes of Little England are out in force and becoming increasingly emboldened and violent.

 

They see their cousins across the pond having it their own way and want a slice. The Brexit rhetoric chickens have come home to roost.

 

This needs stamped out pronto. Just as well our police forces haven't been cut back to the bone.

Edited September 1, 2020 by Governor Tarkin

[Justin Z]

11 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

This needs stamped out pronto. Just as well our police forces haven't been cut back to the bone.

 

And just as well they won't be roping in the EDL, Britain First, etc. and deputising and gladhandling them a la the Kenosha Police.

[Governor Tarkin]

3 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

And just as well they won't be roping in the EDL, Britain First, etc. and deputising and gladhandling them a la the Kenosha Police.

 

The Strathclyde polis were a shower of ****s back in the day, but then Glasgow was a city with a specific suite of problems that required a police force capable of - and willing to - deal with them. They were a totally different breed to Lothian and Borders finest.

 

You obviously have greater insight into the state of US police departments than I, but it has been a bit of an eye opener learning just how institutionally racist and corrupt they are.

[Sharpie]

52 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

Well, i see a lot of them are getting real cocky and appearing from under the rocks in good old Blighty,,,

 

 

 

Remember it well. Been there seen that. It all today looks very familiar. One wee eedjit with a funny hairstyle and a wee square moustache, and another big fat eedjit with a funnier hair style and a shiny orange face, both happy to sacrifice many many lives to satisfy their  overblown egos.

Edited September 1, 2020 by Sharpie

[Justin Z]

8 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

The Strathclyde polis were a shower of ****s back in the day, but then Glasgow was a city with a specific suite of problems that required a police force capable of - and willing to - deal with them. They were a totally different breed to Lothian and Borders finest.

 

I can only imagine. I've heard divergent opinions on bringing everyone under the single Police Scotland umbrella—off topic but what do you think of how it's played out so far? It's not something that would be possible in the American federal system.

 

8 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

You obviously have greater insight into the state of US police departments than I, but it has been a bit of an eye opener learning just how institutionally racist and corrupt they are.

 

Shocking, eh? I wasn't all that aware, until I got to see how they operated on my clients with my own eyes. Obviously the race-related stuff is front and centre right now, and it represents even more hurdles for minority communities, but regardless of that, the corruption, the routine violation of accuseds' rights, the "circling the wagons" when bad cops do bad things (led by police unions) instead of proper disciplinary and restorative action, the far-too-cosy interrelationship with prosecutors' offices when they ought to be operating independently for the sake of justice, etc.—it's stark, for sure.

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Justin Z

[Sharpie]

33 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

I can only imagine. I've heard divergent opinions on bringing everyone under the single Police Scotland umbrella—off topic but what do you think of how it's played out so far? It's not something that would be possible in the American federal system.

 

 

Shocking, eh? I wasn't all that aware, until I got to see how they operated on my clients with my own eyes. Obviously the race-related stuff is front and centre right now, and it represents even more hurdles for minority communities, but regardless of that, the corruption, the routine violation of accuseds' rights, the "circling the wagons" when bad cops do bad things (led by police unions) instead of proper disciplinary and restorative action, the far-too-cosy interrelationship with prosecutors' offices when they ought to be operating independently for the sake of justice, etc.—it's stark, for sure.

 

 

I lived in the atmosphere for three months, forty years ago and there was racism by both black and white officers towards each other. I never saw them in police action but did see the social barrier that existed. Not hard to realise that the social feelings would transcend into the duty actions, but I was not exposed to that.

I cannot help but feel that many years later the attitudes probably remain the same, the main difference though the Supreme leader has similar views, and is not discouraging wrongful acts.

[JFK-1]

1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

 

And just as well they won't be roping in the EDL, Britain First, etc. and deputising and gladhandling them a la the Kenosha Police.

 

I think we all know there is no logical comparison. In all of 2019 UK police shot and killed 3 people. US police killed over 1,000 while it's not unusual for an entire year to pass in which UK police shoot no one at all. This Rittenhouse psycho killed almost as many as UK police did all of last year.

US police will on average kill 2 to 3 people over the next 24 hours or so. And as you say there is no way UK police would be complimenting/encouraging any kind of vigilantism.

And not even Boris, who is at the very least somewhat eccentric, would be twisting in circles trying to avoid branding vigilante murder as anything but murder.     

[JFK-1]

So despite being requested by the mayor and the Governor not to do so, Trump rolls into Kenosha to fan the flames.

Trump brands Kenosha mayor 'a fool' as he heads to city

[milky_26]

41 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

So despite being requested by the mayor and the Governor not to do so, Trump rolls into Kenosha to fan the flames.

Trump brands Kenosha mayor 'a fool' as he heads to city

i wouldn't say he was fanning the flames, more like throwing napalm on them

[Justin Z]

And yet

 

https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1300841861104500736

      

[JFK-1]

7 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

And yet

 

https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1300841861104500736

      

 

I feel disinclined to lend any credence at all to twitter polls.

[JFK-1]

Why Twitter Polls Should Have a Warning Label

[Justin Z]

That's great, but it's not a "Twitter Poll". It's a national poll posted to Twitter.

 

https://www.atlasintel.org/poll/usa-national-2020-09-01

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

What have Biden and the Dems supposedly done wrong to influence that drop in support?

 

Also, did Bernie not poll poorly with Black voters? Memory is hazy. 

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

What have Biden and the Dems supposedly done wrong to influence that drop in support?

 

Also, did Bernie not poll poorly with Black voters? Memory is hazy. 

 

Bernie polled significantly better with that demographic in 2020 than he did in 2016.

 

Biden is ceding ground because of his weak non-responses. He's not out in people's minds because he barely makes appearances anywhere, and when he does come out, he panders instead of taking a stand. Nobody thought Joe "I wrote the crime bill" Biden was sympathetic to rioters or looters, yet still he came out basically with the same broad brush crap Trump has come out with since the beginning . . . just a weaker version of it. So he'll win no votes with that. Meanwhile, he'll alienate those who might've supported him because he's shown no sympathy to the social conditions and plight that lead to those things.

 

Oh, and shit like this instead of policy that energises people:

 

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

6 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Bernie polled significantly better with that demographic in 2020 than he did in 2016.

 

Biden is ceding ground because of his weak non-responses. He's not out in people's minds because he barely makes appearances anywhere, and when he does come out, he panders instead of taking a stand. Nobody thought Joe "I wrote the crime bill" Biden was sympathetic to rioters or looters, yet still he came out basically with the same broad brush crap Trump has come out with since the beginning . . . just a weaker version of it. So he'll win no votes with that. Meanwhile, he'll alienate those who might've supported him because he's shown no sympathy to the social conditions and plight that lead to those things.

 

Oh, and shit like this instead of policy that energises people:

 

 

But surely the time for this stuff was during the primaries? Did he not win like over 40 states or something?

 

At this point it's a head-to-head. They had their chance to make these discussions and Biden won handsomely. Surely to Christ he hasn't done anything to warrant a 23% drop in support from Black voters. He's up against a proven out-and-out racist. I don't understand that at all. Madness. 

[JFK-1]

20 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

That's great, but it's not a "Twitter Poll". It's a national poll posted to Twitter.

 

https://www.atlasintel.org/poll/usa-national-2020-09-01

 

But you have to take it further and question the veracity/reliability of the pollster. This atlasintel is so unknown pollster ratings cannot even give it a bias rating. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/

Do you truly think 46% of Hispanics would vote for Trump? Of all the Hispanics I know not a single one has anything to say about him that doesn't involve expletives.

[Justin Z]

6 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

But you have to take it further and question the veracity/reliability of the pollster. This atlasintel is so unknown pollster ratings cannot even give it a bias rating. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/

Do you truly think 46% of Hispanics would vote for Trump? Of all the Hispanics I know not a single one has anything to say about him that doesn't involve expletives.

 

The point is more that it shouldn't be this close in any poll anywhere. Maybe you are right and these numbers are ridiculously wrong, but it's hardly the first time I've seen numbers like them.

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

But surely the time for this stuff was during the primaries? Did he not win like over 40 states or something?

 

 

Yes, and then whether there's meddling and collusion or not (which I am convinced there was), you're supposed to meet with your closest competitors and form a platform. The Democrats have ceded the square root of **** all to progressives, after rigging the game for the second election in a row. They won a court case in 2017 saying they were allowed to rig their primaries, then of course they did it again in 2020. People are fed up with that. Most have said they would still forgive them, if they would throw a few crumbs. Medicare for All in the middle of a pandemic, ffs. But no, they refuse.

 

3 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

At this point it's a head-to-head. They had their chance to make these discussions and Biden won handsomely.

 

 

 

 

By comparison:

 

 

People don't believe he did, and for good reason.

 

2 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

Surely to Christ he hasn't done anything to warrant a 23% drop in support from Black voters. He's up against a proven out-and-out racist.

 

He's considered a proven, out-and-out racist a significant chunk of the Black community, and it's many of his policies as a primary architect of the modern American carceral state that have made their lives worse over the past quarter century. Enough of them are aware of that, that if the Dems continue to refuse to cede ground on anything progressive, they don't give a **** who the president is, because it can't get any worse for them.

 

It's easy for us to sit back and say "yeah but I mean it's Trump" but if this is about their mindsets—and they're justified—what do you even say?

[Justin Z]

@Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Many Black folks are not impressed with this, for example:

 

Because this is Trump we're talking about, he's simultaneously targeting ads like this at minority demographics while racist dogwhistling white people, scaring them into believing Biden will be weak on crime and that what we're seeing right now, with Trump is office, is "Biden's America."

 

And the Dems' response to this duplicity has been pathetic, thus far.

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Justin Z

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

2 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

@Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Many Black folks are not impressed with this, for example:

 

Because this is Trump we're talking about, he's simultaneously targeting ads like this at minority demographics while racist dogwhistling white people, scaring them into believing Biden will be weak on crime and that what we're seeing right now, with Trump is office, is "Biden's America."

 

And the Dems' response to this duplicity has been pathetic, thus far.

 

 

Just seems crazy to me. Do you want Trump to win? Yes or no. If no, vote for Biden, right? That's where we are right now. I don't wanna tell these people what to do but the country right now is close to a civil war. An actual civil war. Shots are being fired every week. People are being killed. In what other western democracy is that happening? It's so serious and imperative Trump loses that "yeah, but the 1994 crime bill" wouldn't be enough for me. Granted, that's from a privileged position. 

[JackLadd]

2 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

Just seems crazy to me. Do you want Trump to win? Yes or no. If no, vote for Biden, right? That's where we are right now. I don't wanna tell these people what to do but the country right now is close to a civil war. An actual civil war. Shots are being fired every week. People are being killed. In what other western democracy is that happening? It's so serious and imperative Trump loses that "yeah, but the 1994 crime bill" wouldn't be enough for me. Granted, that's from a privileged position. 

 

Trump has no record to inspect save his appalling four years in office but he wanted to see the Central Park 5 executed in 1990. They were cleared by DNA and a confession 13 years later, no apology from Scrump though. 

[J.T.F.Robertson]

37 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Bernie polled significantly better with that demographic in 2020 than he did in 2016.

 

Biden is ceding ground because of his weak non-responses. He's not out in people's minds because he barely makes appearances anywhere, and when he does come out, he panders instead of taking a stand. Nobody thought Joe "I wrote the crime bill" Biden was sympathetic to rioters or looters, yet still he came out basically with the same broad brush crap Trump has come out with since the beginning . . . just a weaker version of it. So he'll win no votes with that. Meanwhile, he'll alienate those who might've supported him because he's shown no sympathy to the social conditions and plight that lead to those things.

 

Oh, and shit like this instead of policy that energises people:

 

 

Jesus, man. He shouldn't have to be constantly in the "public eye" for voters to know, whatever his faults, he's a far better option than this egotistical maniac currently "in office". Unless of course you're neo-nazi/white supremacist by nature.

He is actively encouraging these scary as feck, ignoramuses, to do whatever it takes to keep him where he is.

You know all this and more but for the life of me I cannot understand your dithering.

This prick gets in again and your country, along with the rest of us, is truly ****ed!

 

[JFK-1]

4 minutes ago, J.T.F.Robertson said:

 

Jesus, man. He shouldn't have to be constantly in the "public eye" for voters to know, whatever his faults, he's a far better option than this egotistical maniac currently "in office". Unless of course you're neo-nazi/white supremacist by nature.

He is actively encouraging these scary as feck, ignoramuses, to do whatever it takes to keep him where he is.

You know all this and more but for the life of me I cannot understand your dithering.

This prick gets in again and your country, along with the rest of us, is truly ****ed!

 

 

Pretty much the way I see it. It's like dicing with societal Armageddon because the opposition didn't say they would provide healthcare which the Armageddon option doesn't either.

There is absolutely nothing that can turn out well if this marmalade Mussolini gets another 4 years. There's going to be chaos just getting him out of the office even if he loses.

[Justin Z]

3 minutes ago, J.T.F.Robertson said:

 

 

You know all this and more but for the life of me I cannot understand your dithering.

This prick gets in again and your country, along with the rest of us, is truly ****ed!

 

 

My "dithering" is primarily criticism of Democrats and their apparent hell bent desire to lose this. I can "dither" in this way on a forum populated by 99.9% Scottish people without any risk of being taken the wrong way and that affecting votes. Even putting aside my own feelings about how shit they and their candidate are, I still don't want them to lose, deep down.

 

6 minutes ago, J.T.F.Robertson said:

Jesus, man. He shouldn't have to be constantly in the "public eye" for voters to know, whatever his faults, he's a far better option than this egotistical maniac currently "in office". Unless of course you're neo-nazi/white supremacist by nature.

He is actively encouraging these scary as feck, ignoramuses, to do whatever it takes to keep him where he is.

 

Maybe people should know, and yet here we are. The Democrats are still careening towards a loss, and I am "dithering" about how and why and what they could do to not lose.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

3 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

My "dithering" is primarily criticism of Democrats and their apparent hell bent desire to lose this. I can "dither" in this way on a forum populated by 99.9% Scottish people without any risk of being taken the wrong way and that affecting votes. Even putting aside my own feelings about how shit they and their candidate are, I still don't want them to lose, deep down.

 

 

Maybe people should know, and yet here we are. The Democrats are still careening towards a loss, and I am "dithering" about how and why and what they could do to not lose.

 

"Democracy" is by and large a joke, especially so in these days of appearance and to hell with substance.

The hoi paloi don't help the noble ideology, either.

All in all we're about as maleable as you can get, present company excluded. (insert jocular emoticon)

 

 

[Justin Z]

14 minutes ago, J.T.F.Robertson said:

 

"Democracy" is by and large a joke, especially so in these days of appearance and to hell with substance.

 

Yeah, that's a depressing truth!

 

Edited to add jocular emoticon:

Edited September 1, 2020 by Justin Z

[J.T.F.Robertson]

6 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Yeah, that's a depressing truth!

 

Edited to add jocular emoticon:

 

Never mind, the NFL will be starting soon. By the grace of Covid.

Signed; prioritising hoi paloi member.

 

[Justin Z]

11 minutes ago, J.T.F.Robertson said:

Never mind, the NFL will be starting soon. By the grace of Covid.

Signed; prioritising hoi paloi member.

 

[Justin Z]

19 minutes ago, J.T.F.Robertson said:

Never mind, the NFL will be starting soon. By the grace of Covid.

Signed; prioritising hoi paloi member.

 

This is extra funny to me because I thought something might actually happen when the NBA players were looking like striking long-term. It's America, so of course sports can have an effect—probably the biggest potential effect. But then LeBron James and Barack Obama (two billionaires-to-be) put the kibosh on that because of course they did.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

6 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

This is extra funny to me because I thought something might actually happen when the NBA players were looking like striking long-term. It's America, so of course sports can have an effect—probably the biggest potential effect. But then LeBron James and Barack Obama (two billionaires-to-be) put the kibosh on that because of course they did.

 

That kind of wealth, along with its influence, has always peed me off but long ago I realised it really doesn't matter a toss what my thoughts are on that, or anything else, for that matter.

Not the most positive of philosophic outlooks but we'll all be "poated" in next to no time and I doubt oblivion makes allowances for remembrances of wealth or influence while we were kicking around on this wee speck of dust. They can write as many  glowing obituaries, erect as many statues (that one has always given me a laugh) as "they" like, but once you're fini ........ 

 

HTF did I get onto this? Quit while I'm behind.

 

 

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, J.T.F.Robertson said:

HTF did I get onto this? Quit while I'm behind.

 

Mate, that was fantastic. Keep it up.