U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[JFK-1]

4 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

Much as I loved seeing his mug after that terrible rally, the orange stains all over his shirt, for example.

 

Somebody threw water on him, the orange **** was melting. That's what he's referring to when he says witch hunt.

 

 

[Sharpie]

8 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Haha, cheers. I am 100% onboard with that feeling and I really, really want to give into it. But I just can't. 😅 Much as I loved seeing his mug after that terrible rally, the orange stains all over his shirt, for example.

 

I gave into it years ago when I pressed a wrong button on the tv remote and got the face of an idiot proudly declaring "you're fired". The act of power I discovered some time later although scripted was real in the poor inadequate individuals mind, and he carried it unbelievably into the White House as President of the United States. What a travesty.

[Justin Z]

2 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Somebody threw water on him, the orange **** was melting. That's what he's referring to when he says witch hunt.

 

 

 

[JFK-1]

53 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Haha, cheers. I am 100% onboard with that feeling and I really, really want to give into it. But I just can't. 😅 Much as I loved seeing his mug after that terrible rally, the orange stains all over his shirt, for example.

 

How would you feel about him continuing with his attempt to dismantle NATO which is the only thing that stands between Europe and Russian dominance? Would that have happened if Hillary had been elected. I think not.

Which is exactly why Putin wanted him elected and wants him re-elected. He is a de facto Putin puppet.

[Justin Z]

4 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

How would you feel about him continuing with his attempt to dismantle NATO which is the only thing that stands between Europe and Russian dominance? Would that have happened if Hillary had been elected. I think not.

Which is exactly why Putin wanted him elected and wants him re-elected. He is a de facto Putin puppet.

 

This is hard, and complicated. Long-term, do I think Europe is better off self-reliant, or at least operating with less reliance on NATO? Yes. Is that necessarily possible right now especially as long as a ***** like Putin is pulling the strings in Russia? (speaking of a monumental ****-up from 1990 onward by the US and the NATO countries) No, not necessarily.

 

Does Trump's presence lessen the US's clout generally, not just vis-a-vis Russia? Yes. Do I think that, overall is bad? No.

[JFK-1]

9 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

Do I think that, overall is bad? No.

 

I don't understand that line of thinking. Europe is incapable of standing up to Putin even in just a conventional military confrontation and will be for a long time to come.

Will likely never match their nuclear capability and would we even want them to? Start another nuclear arms race to be militarily independent?

And that's aside from the problems China can present in Asia which Europe has zero chance of ever confronting alone. This orange idiot is a global issue. 

[redjambo]

Worth keeping an eye on this perhaps?

 

https://www.270towin.com/maps/biden-trump-polling-map

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Yes, I was born there. My dad was in the air force and met my mum while stationed in Edinburgh (rented the flat above her office). I've got dual nationality, can vote here, can't (as far as I'm aware) vote in US elections. My dad never voted in US electionsin the 30 odd years he lived here (died years ago).  He never took out British citizenship, do couldn't vote here. I took out British citizenship in the 80s and thought I gave up my US citizenship. Turned out George W Bush changed a law and got my US passport back. Which was nice.

Edit: I think it was W's dad that changed the law, H W Bush.

 

Does that mean either can enlist you during a war?

[ri Alban]

29 minutes ago, redjambo said:

Worth keeping an eye on this perhaps?

 

https://www.270towin.com/maps/biden-trump-polling-map

I'm beginning to think Biden will walk this, Easily. 

[ri Alban]

41 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I don't understand that line of thinking. Europe is incapable of standing up to Putin even in just a conventional military confrontation and will be for a long time to come.

Will likely never match their nuclear capability and would we even want them to? Start another nuclear arms race to be militarily independent?

And that's aside from the problems China can present in Asia which Europe has zero chance of ever confronting alone. This orange idiot is a global issue. 

I'm quite sure Europe would feck Russia right up, American and China too, if it came to it. 

"We've X amount of nukes" says R/C/A. "Dae ye, Aye?!, We don't believe ye, ya bullshitters" Says Europe. 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

6 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

How would you feel about him continuing with his attempt to dismantle NATO which is the only thing that stands between Europe and Russian dominance? Would that have happened if Hillary had been elected. I think not.

Which is exactly why Putin wanted him elected and wants him re-elected. He is a de facto Putin puppet.

I wonder how long before China have troops on the US/Mexico border? The Latam countries seem to be getting wooed by thee Chinese.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/15/americas/latam-china-us-covid-diplomacy-intl/index.html

 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

5 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Does that mean either can enlist you during a war?

Possibly, but if the US wanted me to enlist (they're more likely), I'd tell them to bolt & probably cut all ties with them. I love the US, so wouldn't want that to happen.

Anyway, I'm far too old to be called up. I'd be more dad's army/home guard age.

[King prawn]

8 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Mate, what I'm saying is that it's abundantly clear—and keeps getting clearer by the day—that electing Joe Biden isn't going to solve anything. This analogy doesn't work because both buses go the opposite direction from what the country needs to recover from this.

 

The questions then are, which one goes farther and faster the wrong way? Is it better for all this shit to go down immediately and have Trump as the fall guy to pin it on, possibly putting an end to this destructive movement and putting us on a path to actual recovery? Or shall we wait four or eight years while fascists regroup, having already been the source of mass violence starting this week and continuing through election day, for the next one who's even worse than Trump? Because nothing will change in the meantime.

 

I haven't the foggiest ****ing clue. I can't just sit here and say "oh voting for Joe will get us partway there" because that's just simply not true to my eyes.

Anything would be better than Trump. A lot can change in 4 years.

[Cade]

Orange wankstain threatens to declare protests in Washington DC an insurrection, allowing him to deploy military assets against the protesters.

[Beni]

Do the dance!

[Beni]

@Barack

It crossed my mind too, but if it was a joke he'd have a smile on his face rather than a look of terror. I think his right leg gave way momentarily and he tried to style it out by pointing at the crowd. There's several videos of him dragging his right leg around like he's had a stroke. Or there's that time he was rushed to hospital for a routine medical.

 

 

Either way it's probably a nice distraction from the omnishitshow.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by fancy a brew

[maroonlegions]

The way i see it just now with the white American "moderates" ,, 

Conservative social media are lionising a 17 year old with two felonies shooting three people, killing two of them at a protest against yet another police shooting. All lives matter my aye....

 

 

 

[JFK-1]

10 hours ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

I wonder how long before China have troops on the US/Mexico border? The Latam countries seem to be getting wooed by thee Chinese.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/15/americas/latam-china-us-covid-diplomacy-intl/index.html

 

 

Hardly surprising is it? To the North they have an orange nutcase who frequently describes them as "rapists and criminals". And who demonstrates an unpredictable instability even the nations of Europe are concerned about.

A freak who runs with conspiracy theories as a global pandemic every layman knew was coming their way ramps up. He babbles mindless shite about it disappearing, "like magic"

Rational nations devise rational strategies to deal with it, Trump goes down the "miracle" route while disparaging any efforts to contain it. This shit wont be forgotten by the international community.

[JFK-1]

 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

1 hour ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Hardly surprising is it? To the North they have an orange nutcase who frequently describes them as "rapists and criminals". And who demonstrates an unpredictable instability even the nations of Europe are concerned about.

A freak who runs with conspiracy theories as a global pandemic every layman knew was coming their way ramps up. He babbles mindless shite about it disappearing, "like magic"

Rational nations devise rational strategies to deal with it, Trump goes down the "miracle" route while disparaging any efforts to contain it. This shit wont be forgotten by the international community.

Exactly.  He's too stupid to realise you need to get on with your neighbours. Pretty much why China has North Korea.

[The White Cockade]

On 28/08/2020 at 22:47, Justin Z said:

 

Basically it comes down to a few main points:

 

- Was a primary architect of the crime bill and doubling down on the War on Drugs which created the modern American carceral state and disproportionately imprisoned people from communities of colour

- Doesn't support Medicare for All even in the midst of Covid

- Voted in favour of Iraq War, generally shows warhawkish tendencies

- Has no plans to rein in any of the oppressive agencies or structures he helped create, for the sake of social justice

- Has done nothing to address the issues BLM want politicians to face and reform; just meaningless posturing and performativeness

 

So he's viewed, quite rightly imo, as a strong Republican dressed in Democrats' clothing. That's true of much of the Democratic Party these days, so it's hardly surprising, but it doesn't make it good.

 

Yet the orange moron calls him a Marxist and a Socialist and his half wit followers believe it

America is beyond parody at the moment 

 

[Sharpie]

I watched a short bit with Trump earlier, he was wearing his MAGA cap. What got me was his face was a bright shiny orange., obviously makeup, can his cosmetics appliers not figure what was going to be the conditions for the interview and apply make up accordingly. Even small fish like I when going on one of the few occasions got a dust with a powder puff to eliminate camera shine on some part of my face, he is he says a billionaire can he not afford a good one. I can just turn back the clock to about 1948 and in those days of no diversity  or correctness it would be interesting to hear good old Edinburgh working class men in a pub seeing that on a screen and hearing the comments. I am sure one would be vote for him I'd rather "insert expletive" him.

[JFK-1]

This is encouraging more crazies like Kyle Rittenhouse to take to the streets.
 

 

[JFK-1]

[JFK-1]

The GOP is strapped to a ticking time bomb

 

The Republican Party’s intellectual crisis was on full display during the GOP convention. On Monday, the party announced that it wouldn’t publish a new platform: Instead, its members promised to support “the President’s America-first agenda” and threw out some half-baked bullet points.

 

In the days that followed, speakers heaped praise on the president, making clear that his person, rather than a program, is the guiding light of the party.

 

The GOP used to be animated by a marriage of social conservatism, economic libertarianism and foreign policy hawkishness. Now there’s just  Trump and his instincts.

 

This intellectual hollowness is a ticking time bomb for the GOP. As soon as Trump leaves office, whether in 2021 or 2025, the Republican Party will have to deal with the intellectual and political consequences of elevating him. And it won’t be pretty.

 

The first problem: Even after Trump is out of office, he’ll still be in charge.

 

Jonathan V. Last at the Bulwark argues that while normal presidents ride off into the sunset and let their party move on, Trump won’t. Trump likely will want to hold onto his fan base, and he’ll do it by tweeting, going on cable TV and opining on every little thing the GOP tries to do in any forum that’s available to him.

 

Trump already governs by tweet. There’s no reason he couldn’t continue to lead the party from Mar-a-Lago.

 

Politically, Trump’s continued presence would probably hurt the GOP: He’s not popular outside the base, and his constant presence would harm the party’s efforts to rebrand or expand.

 

Intellectually, the effect would be even worse. Trump is vindictive and vacuous — he won’t have anything useful to contribute to the GOP’s self-reform efforts, but he’ll cut in anyway to shout down anyone who openly criticizes his tenure.

 

And when Trump finally exits the political stage, new problems will arise.

 

At that point, many in the GOP base will still remember him fondly, and Republicans will need to integrate the remnants of Trumpism into their next ideology.

 

But as an ideology, Trumpism is an inscrutable collection of instincts, insults, rants and tweets. Aspiring GOP leaders will try to bend the material into something comprehensible, but there will be no way to judge who is “right” about what Trump would have done on any issue, aside from immigration.

 

Like a perverse Bible study, Republicans will pore over Trump’s words looking for a divine political message, and they’ll all come away with flawed, irreconcilable interpretations.

 

Eventually, Republicans will solve this problem. Political parties, unlike religious groups, nominate their leaders in primaries. Might will make right, and the candidate who offers up the most popular version of Trumpism-plus-their-ideas will win.

 

The best realistic endgame for this fight: Republicans find someone who takes stylistic cues from Trumpism, fighting the media and throwing red meat to the base while taking governing and policy seriously and pursuing them with real competence.

 

In the Bible study metaphor, he or she would be a theological conservative who takes the text seriously but doesn’t think humans hung out with dinosaurs.

 

But much darker scenarios are on the table, too. Maybe a Trump fundamentalist will win by proclaiming Trump was perfect and trying to recreate his every move in office.

 

This could lead to a stagnant and increasingly toxic politics, where the next Republican president again tries to cut taxes for the wealthy, abuses his executive authority, spews bile about immigrants and pays too much attention to TV news and Twitter.

 

Or maybe a cynical celebrity businessman will win by aping Trump on cultural issues, only to use the office to expand his empire. Republicans spent decades mimicking Ronald Reagan — if they do the same with Trump, the results could be disastrous.

 

Regardless of the result, the fight will be ugly and costly. It’ll take years for the Republican Party to figure out what it stands for, and global problems won’t wait for it to catch up.

 

In the 2020s, Americans will have to recover from the coronavirus pandemic, push back on authoritarianism abroad, and deal with racial strife and inequality at home. And it’ll be all the more difficult with one party wandering around in the wilderness.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/08/27/gop-is-strapped-ticking-time-bomb/

[Francis Albert]

On 29/08/2020 at 01:20, JFK-1 said:

 

I don't understand that line of thinking. Europe is incapable of standing up to Putin even in just a conventional military confrontation and will be for a long time to come.

Will likely never match their nuclear capability and would we even want them to? Start another nuclear arms race to be militarily independent?

And that's aside from the problems China can present in Asia which Europe has zero chance of ever confronting alone. This orange idiot is a global issue. 

Not sure what you mean by Europe being unable to stand up to Putin even in just a conventional military confrontation. Ever since WW2 the Soviet Union/Russia has had the military capability to walk all over Europe in a conventional war. Even with conventional American military support and even if the US was willing to sacrifice another generation of young Americans to defend Europe which I doubt.

The nuclear deterrent has been Europe's main (only) line of defence since WW2.

I tend to agree with JustinZ if I understand him correctly. It is the ability of Europe to wipe out most Russian cities that would be its defence, NATO or no NATO. In fact NATO's stupid eastward expansion since the Soviet Union's collapse has been the main threat to Europe in the last few decades and the biggest boost to Putin's aim to rule Russia for life.

[King Of The Cat Cafe]

22 hours ago, Sharpie said:

I watched a short bit with Trump earlier, he was wearing his MAGA cap. What got me was his face was a bright shiny orange., obviously makeup, can his cosmetics appliers not figure what was going to be the conditions for the interview and apply make up accordingly. Even small fish like I when going on one of the few occasions got a dust with a powder puff to eliminate camera shine on some part of my face, he is he says a billionaire can he not afford a good one. I can just turn back the clock to about 1948 and in those days of no diversity  or correctness it would be interesting to hear good old Edinburgh working class men in a pub seeing that on a screen and hearing the comments. I am sure one would be vote for him I'd rather "insert expletive" him.

 

Reportedly, Trump does his own make up.

[JFK-1]

15 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Not sure what you mean by Europe being unable to stand up to Putin even in just a conventional military confrontation. Ever since WW2 the Soviet Union/Russia has had the military capability to walk all over Europe in a conventional war. Even with conventional American military support and even if the US was willing to sacrifice another generation of young Americans to defend Europe which I doubt.

The nuclear deterrent has been Europe's main (only) line of defence since WW2.

I tend to agree with JustinZ if I understand him correctly. It is the ability of Europe to wipe out most Russian cities that would be its defence, NATO or no NATO. In fact NATO's stupid eastward expansion since the Soviet Union's collapse has been the main threat to Europe in the last few decades and the biggest boost to Putin's aim to rule Russia for life.

 

Going nuclear isn't a rational option for anybody. It's a no win situation and no one is going to go down that path. The only purpose of these weapons is if you do that to me you know I will retaliate in kind. Thus no one considers it a feasible option. The Russians may be bad but they are not mad. And neither are we.

What they do consider an option is a conventional military confrontation and Russia currently has the upper hand over NATO far less Europe alone.

The last US tanks left Germany in 2013. Russia has 12,950 tanks. Contrast that with Britain who  have 227. Even if they hadn't withdrawn their tanks from Europe the US has a total of 6,289.

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Going nuclear isn't a rational option for anybody. It's a no win situation and no one is going to go down that path. The only purpose of these weapons is if you do that to me you know I will retaliate in kind. Thus no one considers it a feasible option. The Russians may be bad but they are not mad. And neither are we.

What they do consider an option is a conventional military confrontation and Russia currently has the upper hand over NATO far less Europe alone.

The last US tanks left Germany in 2013. Russia has 12,950 tanks. Contrast that with Britain who  have 227. Even if they hadn't withdrawn their tanks from Europe the US has a total of 6,289.

Britain left the EU. France and Germany won't be slow in the production of weaponry, if required. The UK are a wee Diddy team anyway, won't every win a war again. In fact Russia should just walk in and seize it, just like the Crimea. Feck even America wouldn't give a feck. 

Edited August 31, 2020 by ri Alban

[JFK-1]

 

 

 

[ri Alban]

15 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

 

 

What do you think, J? 

[Norm]

6 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Going nuclear isn't a rational option for anybody. It's a no win situation and no one is going to go down that path. The only purpose of these weapons is if you do that to me you know I will retaliate in kind. Thus no one considers it a feasible option. The Russians may be bad but they are not mad. And neither are we.

What they do consider an option is a conventional military confrontation and Russia currently has the upper hand over NATO far less Europe alone.

The last US tanks left Germany in 2013. Russia has 12,950 tanks. Contrast that with Britain who  have 227. Even if they hadn't withdrawn their tanks from Europe the US has a total of 6,289.

While Russia may have tanks, the US pishes all over them with air superiority. 13,000 aircraft to 4,000. 

 

Those tanks aren't going to be much use when one of the US gunships from their 5,700 strong helicopter unit can wipe them out before the tank can even see them. 

 

You also have a far, far stronger naval force with the Yanks too. 

 

Even looking at Europe, again while the Russians have tanks, the EU has far more personnel, superior air power and superior naval power. 

 

It's not the Russian cake walk you think it will be. 

[JFK-1]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

What do you think, J? 

 

I think Trump is compromised in countless ways through connections to US Mafia associates all the way to Russian criminals and oligarchs. And all Russian oligarchs are under the control of the Kremlin. The only way to become an oligarch is to be working with the Kremlin. And that means Putin.

Putin is effectively the biggest most powerful mob boss the world has ever seen. And very possibly the smartest when it comes to scheming. What else would we expect from a man who was a KGB officer?

It's been known for many decades that the KGB would spend years focusing on any high profile Western official or businessman who comes into their orbit. Trump would be in that category. These individuals will be plied with flattery, we know how much Trump craves that.

You can be guaranteed these individuals will be constantly surveilled and any residence they occupy in Russia itself is guaranteed to have every nook and cranny bugged with listening devices and cameras.

 Trump is stupid, greedy, easily manipulated with flattery and money. In my view it's pretty much guaranteed that they have compromising information on him.

There is and never has been any doubt that Putin was involved in a mass conspiracy to get Trump elected. Every Western intelligence agency confirmed this long before the Mueller investigation or the recent senate report which also confirmed it.

Yet to this day Trump wont admit it despite the fact it's proven beyond doubt and so many involved in his campaign have been jailed for lying about it. Why are they lying if there is nothing to hide? The obvious answer is that there is a lot to hide.

Trump has never said a single negative thing about Russia and particularly so about Putin. Which all alone is pretty bizarre given that every president since the end of WW2 has painted Russia as a power hostile the the US and the West in general.

What changed? It can't be that Russia changed. Putin is without a doubt the most malevolent and controlling Russian leader since Stalin.

Trump would love to be an American Putin. Putin controls the Russian press, no one would dare talk about him in the press the way the US press talks about Trump.

No political opposition if you could even say there is any would dare talk about him in the way the opposition talk about Trump. Because in Putins Russia that gets you whacked/poisoned. 

Putin has dirt on Trump in multiple ways. Trump knows it and is absolutely shitting his pants about the prospect of losing this election. Because if that happens Putin may decide this once useful idiot is of no further use.

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Britain left the EU. France and Germany won't be slow in the production of weaponry, if required. The UK are a wee Diddy team anyway, won't every win a war again. In fact Russia should just walk in and seize it, just like the Crimea. Feck even America wouldn't give a feck. 

What about our special relationship with USA?

 

[DETTY29]

Suppose could cover so many different threads just now.

[SwindonJambo]

6 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Britain left the EU. France and Germany won't be slow in the production of weaponry, if required. The UK are a wee Diddy team anyway, won't every win a war again. In fact Russia should just walk in and seize it, just like the Crimea. Feck even America wouldn't give a feck. 

 

You are confusing the EU with NATO. The EU is an economic bloc, not a military one. We are founder members of NATO and permanent members of the UN Security Council. Our relationship with our NATO Allies who also happen to be EU members too is unaffected by leaving the EU. Norway have twice voted against joining the EU but are NATO members.

 

i believe it’s SNP Policy for Scotland to join NATO and thank goodness for that. To join, you have to spend 2% or more of your GDP on military and that would be much easier to achieve than meeting the criteria to join the EU. Poland joined NATO in 1999, but didn’t join the EU until 5 years later. It’s a dangerous World out there with nasties like Putin all too keen to bully and intimidate. Scotland would probably do fine independent, but it must make the right choices and the protective umbrella of NATO is much more important than EU membership. It’s over 75 years since this country was directly attacked by a foreign power and we have NATO to thank for that.

 

 

[SwindonJambo]

3 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I think Trump is compromised in countless ways through connections to US Mafia associates all the way to Russian criminals and oligarchs. And all Russian oligarchs are under the control of the Kremlin. The only way to become an oligarch is to be working with the Kremlin. And that means Putin.

Putin is effectively the biggest most powerful mob boss the world has ever seen. And very possibly the smartest when it comes to scheming. What else would we expect from a man who was a KGB officer?

It's been known for many decades that the KGB would spend years focusing on any high profile Western official or businessman who comes into their orbit. Trump would be in that category. These individuals will be plied with flattery, we know how much Trump craves that.

You can be guaranteed these individuals will be constantly surveilled and any residence they occupy in Russia itself is guaranteed to have every nook and cranny bugged with listening devices and cameras.

 Trump is stupid, greedy, easily manipulated with flattery and money. In my view it's pretty much guaranteed that they have compromising information on him.

There is and never has been any doubt that Putin was involved in a mass conspiracy to get Trump elected. Every Western intelligence agency confirmed this long before the Mueller investigation or the recent senate report which also confirmed it.

Yet to this day Trump wont admit it despite the fact it's proven beyond doubt and so many involved in his campaign have been jailed for lying about it. Why are they lying if there is nothing to hide? The obvious answer is that there is a lot to hide.

Trump has never said a single negative thing about Russia and particularly so about Putin. Which all alone is pretty bizarre given that every president since the end of WW2 has painted Russia as a power hostile the the US and the West in general.

What changed? It can't be that Russia changed. Putin is without a doubt the most malevolent and controlling Russian leader since Stalin.

Trump would love to be an American Putin. Putin controls the Russian press, no one would dare talk about him in the press the way the US press talks about Trump.

No political opposition if you could even say there is any would dare talk about him in the way the opposition talk about Trump. Because in Putins Russia that gets you whacked/poisoned. 

Putin has dirt on Trump in multiple ways. Trump knows it and is absolutely shitting his pants about the prospect of losing this election. Because if that happens Putin may decide this once useful idiot is of no further use.

 

Top post. You bring a lot to the thread as a Scot based over there. Biden is far from wonderful but a second term for Trump would make the World a much more dangerous place. Biden has a consistent 7-8% lead in the opinion polls but odds are tightening for both at the bookies, which is worrying. Not many poor bookies around. https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election-2020/winning-party

[Dawnrazor]

6 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

You are confusing the EU with NATO. The EU is an economic bloc, not a military one. We are founder members of NATO and permanent members of the UN Security Council. Our relationship with our NATO Allies who also happen to be EU members too is unaffected by leaving the EU. Norway have twice voted against joining the EU but are NATO members.

 

i believe it’s SNP Policy for Scotland to join NATO and thank goodness for that. To join, you have to spend 2% or more of your GDP on military and that would be much easier to achieve than meeting the criteria to join the EU. Poland joined NATO in 1999, but didn’t join the EU until 5 years later. It’s a dangerous World out there with nasties like Putin all too keen to bully and intimidate. Scotland would probably do fine independent, but it must make the right choices and the protective umbrella of NATO is much more important than EU membership. It’s over 75 years since this country was directly attacked by a foreign power and we have NATO to thank for that.

 

 

I'd be interested in how the "Scottish Military" would work in the event of Independence. 

[SwindonJambo]

3 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I'd be interested in how the "Scottish Military" would work in the event of Independence. 

 

So would I! NATO have a nuclear policy so I imagine the nuke subs would be staying at Faslane for a while. And the RAF base at Lossiemouth. We’ve had 75 years of peace on these Isles and people take it for granted far too much. If Scotland leaves the U.K., there’s a good chance rUK would be removed from the permanent UN Security Council.  rUK would have diminished status on the World Stage for sure. What would the country be called and what flag would it use? The blue bits would have to be removed from the Union Flag.

Edited August 31, 2020 by SwindonJambo

[milky_26]

6 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I'd be interested in how the "Scottish Military" would work in the event of Independence. 

people in kilts standing at hadrians wall throwing rocks at england

[Dawnrazor]

3 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

people in kilts standing at hadrians wall throwing rocks at england

Just like the "Braveheart" film, this is some foks wet dream 😆

[Cade]

14 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I'd be interested in how the "Scottish Military" would work in the event of Independence. 

 

Same way the Irish, Norwegian, Swedish and Danish military work, presumably.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Cade

[SwindonJambo]

4 minutes ago, Cade said:

 

Same way the Irish, Norwegian, Swedish and Danish military work, presumably.

 

 

 

Norway and Denmark are in NATO so that may be a template. Ireland and Sweden aren’t. 

[Norm]

Not sure why we'd bother to join NATO. Let's face it, if Russia was to start something on an independent Scotland, there's not a ****ing hope in hell rUK would just let it happen. They'd be, rightfully, shit scared that the Russians would use it as a base to take the rest of the UK. Probably why the Irish don't bother either. They know the UK would never let it get to that stage in the first place, so why bother? 

 

 

[Cade]

What is all this constant pish about Russian instantly invading Scotland the day after Independence and what does it have to do with the Trump thread?

[SwindonJambo]

14 minutes ago, Normthebarman said:

Not sure why we'd bother to join NATO. Let's face it, if Russia was to start something on an independent Scotland, there's not a ****ing hope in hell rUK would just let it happen. They'd be, rightfully, shit scared that the Russians would use it as a base to take the rest of the UK. Probably why the Irish don't bother either. They know the UK would never let it get to that stage in the first place, so why bother? 

 

 

The founding principle of NATO is that an attack on one member is an attack on all. So if one member is attacked, the other 29 are committed to coming to their aid. About 10 of the 30 current members are smaller than Scotland. 

Devious Putin is trying to persuade thick as shit Trump to withdraw, which would be a disaster.

 

There has not been one military attack on these isles since 1945 and we've the powerful deterrent of NATO to thank for that. Far too many people take peace for granted.

[SwindonJambo]

1 minute ago, Cade said:

What is all this constant pish about Russian instantly invading Scotland the day after Independence and what does it have to do with the Trump thread?

Who ever mentioned that? It is relevant to Trump. He's made noises about pulling out of NATO, which would please Putin no end. If he gets a 2nd term, there's a good chance he'll do it.

[JackLadd]

Fear and loathing are certainly helping the conman's chances and we know he will never accept the result if it doesn't say he won. The civil strife we are seeing there just now could just be the start of something much bigger. 

[Ray Gin]

4 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

Suppose could cover so many different threads just now.

 

 

 

[Sharpie]

Last nights death due to conflict between BLM supporters and Trump supporters is only a portend to what is coming.  The visions of armed civilians only there to support the police, the action by the President to send National Guard to keep the peace, the constant fawning to the powerful police associations by the President, the very simple but totally  different from the past use by a President of the White House for his acceptance speech, the use of the garden where Mrs Kennedy had planted cherry trees which were cut down for Mrs Trumps appearance are all signs of an abnormal belief that these properties are now the personal property of the present incumbent, would indicate to me he has no intention of leaving, and is putting in place what are basically martial  plans to ensure his position whether legally elected or not. It can only lead to expanded civil unrest and conflict.  May God Bless and save America for the sake of the World.