U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[Maple Leaf]

20 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Well and that's sort of the point, right? Just saw someone say this and it resonated: "They're not the lesser evil. They're the more effective one."

 

You're clearly on the horns of a dilemma, Justin.  

 

You despise Trump and are revolted by Biden.  What's a fella to do, huh?

 

I'm serious.  It's a very important election and you detest the two candidates. Decisions, decisions.

[Justin Z]

18 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

You're clearly on the horns of a dilemma, Justin.  

 

You despise Trump and are revolted by Biden.  What's a fella to do, huh?

 

I'm serious.  It's a very important election and you detest the two candidates. Decisions, decisions.

 

I feel like the more we threaten not to vote for Biden, the more it might actually compel the Democratic establishment to do something for the benefit of the people. Maybe even that is naïve at this point. But we need to put a stop not just to Trump but what caused Trump, and Biden exemplifies it.

 

Horns of a dilemma indeed.

[Maple Leaf]

 

[Unknown user]

12 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

I feel like the more we threaten not to vote for Biden, the more it might actually compel the Democratic establishment to do something for the benefit of the people. Maybe even that is naïve at this point. But we need to put a stop not just to Trump but what caused Trump, and Biden exemplifies it.

 

Horns of a dilemma indeed.

 

TBH I think you're being a bit OTT with this. You don't like Biden's running mate and that's putting you off voting for him. Meanwhile, Coco the clown's running mate is Satan and you're at risk of letting them back in.

Coco and Satan have to be stopped.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

15 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

I feel like the more we threaten not to vote for Biden, the more it might actually compel the Democratic establishment to do something for the benefit of the people. Maybe even that is naïve at this point. But we need to put a stop not just to Trump but what caused Trump, and Biden exemplifies it.

 

Horns of a dilemma indeed.

 

I'd *hope to hell you don't want to risk another 4 years of this spoiled brat/megalomaniac in hopes it might lead to some utopian Democratic candidate next time around. That goes a bit further than naive.

 

*I'm sure you don't.

 

[kingsknowe_jambo]

https://twitter.com/msnbc/status/1294057171580342272?s=21

[Justin Z]

8 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

TBH I think you're being a bit OTT with this. You don't like Biden's running mate and that's putting you off voting for him. Meanwhile, Coco the clown's running mate is Satan and you're at risk of letting them back in.

Coco and Satan have to be stopped.

 

It's far, far, far from just Biden's running mate, it's just that's the current topic because of the timing.

 

You might not feel I'm being OTT if you were actually from here, or had ever lived here for any extended period.

 

4 minutes ago, J.T.F.Robertson said:

 

I'd *hope to hell you don't want to risk another 4 years of this spoiled brat/megalomaniac in hopes it might lead to some utopian Democratic candidate next time around. That goes a bit further than naive.

 

*I'm sure you don't.

 

 

Thanks. And yeah, this is basically exactly why it's so bad. Spoiled brat megalomaniac has focused people's attention. Like 98% of Democrats voted in favour of the Patriot Act and have contributed just as much as Republicans towards making this a police surveillance state that violates human rights on the reg. Why do we want to get back to a "normal" like that?

 

There's just no winning. This is an especially high stakes game because there's certainly no guarantee of it being burned down in a less harmful way than just going back to the same old decay and millions uninsured and needlessly dying and being killed in foreign wars that the Dems always just sort of slowly settled us into, callously and quietly.

 

If I'm honest, I'll probably capitulate in November. But I'll feel like a terrible person.

[Maple Leaf]

39 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

It's far, far, far from just Biden's running mate, it's just that's the current topic because of the timing.

 

You might not feel I'm being OTT if you were actually from here, or had ever lived here for any extended period.

 

 

Thanks. And yeah, this is basically exactly why it's so bad. Spoiled brat megalomaniac has focused people's attention. Like 98% of Democrats voted in favour of the Patriot Act and have contributed just as much as Republicans towards making this a police surveillance state that violates human rights on the reg. Why do we want to get back to a "normal" like that?

 

There's just no winning. This is an especially high stakes game because there's certainly no guarantee of it being burned down in a less harmful way than just going back to the same old decay and millions uninsured and needlessly dying and being killed in foreign wars that the Dems always just sort of slowly settled us into, callously and quietly.

 

If I'm honest, I'll probably capitulate in November. But I'll feel like a terrible person.

 

What you're suggesting is that you live in one massively fecked-up country and this election isn't going to change that, regardless of who wins.

 

You're probably right, but it's a depressing thought.

[JFK-1]

It's a country in shambles for many reasons and was in shambles in many ways before Trump. But Trump is making it immeasurably worse and given the chance would accelerate it to dystopian levels previously unimaginable in a high income Western democracy.

I'm living in the US and more than that living in deepest darkest Trump country. Given the chance I would vote for anything, a cartoon character, Homer Simpson, to be rid of this curse.

Nothing on offer is worse than Trump by a very long way. And nothing on offer would make it even worse as Trump assuredly will if he gets the chance to. If he were to get that chance things may happen this country might never recover from.

It's already going to be a long haul to regain any modicum of international credibility. A Biden administration will be one the international community will be ready to accommodate. Another does of Trump will see them go their own way leaving the US ever more isolated. 

It wont be America first. It will be America alone as the international scene reorganises without them. I can think of not a single reason to do anything that could conceivably assist this simple minded deranged tango creature in achieving that.
 

 

[JFK-1]

Someone with inside information on Trump stating that.
 

Quote

"The president “will never leave office peacefully.”

I’m certain that Trump knows he will face prison time if he leaves office, the inevitable cold Karma to the notorious chants of 'Lock Her Up!'"

 
Michael Cohen book accuses Trump of corruption, fraud
 

President Trump’s former lawyer Michael Cohen’s book accused the president of corruption and fraud, according to an excerpt released Thursday.

In the book entitled “Disloyal, A Memoir,” Cohen made several accusations, including that the president “cheated” in the 2016 election with the help of Russia.
 

Cohen, Trump’s former fixer, wrote that Trump attempted to get close to Russian President Vladimir Putin and “his coterie of corrupt billionaire oligarchs.”

“Trump had colluded with the Russians, but not in the sophisticated ways imagined by his detractors. I also knew that the Mueller investigation was not a witch-hunt,” Cohen wrote.

“Trump had cheated in the election, with Russian connivance, as you will discover in these pages, because doing anything — and I mean anything — to ‘win’ has always been his business model and way of life,” he added. 
 

Trump has repeatedly denied any collusion with Russia during the 2016 presidential election, and he and his allies have called the Russia probe a "hoax" and a "witch hunt."
 

The investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election concluded that the country interfered through a series of social media disinformation and influence campaigns. It also did not find that the Trump campaign coordinated with the Russian government in the 2016 election.
 

Trump’s former lawyer also predicted that the president “will never leave office peacefully.”

"The types of scandals that have surfaced in recent months will only continue to emerge with greater and greater levels of treachery and deceit," the excerpt read.
 

"If Trump wins another four years, these scandals will prove to only be the tip of the iceberg. I’m certain that Trump knows he will face prison time if he leaves office, the inevitable cold Karma to the notorious chants of 'Lock Her Up!'" Cohen wrote.
 

The White House labeled the book as “fan fiction” in a statement obtained by NBC News.
 

"He readily admits to lying routinely but expects people to believe him now so that he can make money from book sales," the statement said. "It’s unfortunate that the media is exploiting this sad and desperate man to attack President Trump."

The president has slammed Cohen since he cooperated in former special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into the campaign’s ties to Russia, calling him a fraud and a liar.
 

In the book, Cohen also portrays himself as a “bad guy” who helped the president, who he said acted “like a mob boss.”

“From golden showers in a sex club in Vegas, to tax fraud, to deals with corrupt officials from the former Soviet Union, to catch and kill conspiracies to silence Trump’s clandestine lovers, I wasn’t just a witness to the president’s rise—I was an active and eager participant,” he wrote.

Cohen was sentenced to three years in prison for financial crimes and lying to Congress, but he was released to serve his sentence at home amid concerns about the pandemic.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/511976-michael-cohen-book-accuses-trump-of-corruption-fraud

[JFK-1]

Michael Cohen Teases A Bombshell Book While Trump Admits He's Slowing USPS To Tilt The Election
 

 

[JFK-1]

A 3,7000 word foreword to the Cohen book on Trump due for a timely release in October. Presumably we can expect an attempt from Trump consigliere's to block or delay it as they did with the Mary Trump book. Or maybe make Cohen "an offer he can't refuse"

THE FOREWORD: THE REAL REAL DONALD TRUMP

[Unknown user]

5 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

It's far, far, far from just Biden's running mate, it's just that's the current topic because of the timing.

 

You might not feel I'm being OTT if you were actually from here, or had ever lived here for any extended period.

 

 

And I might feel differently if I had tits and a tail, but so what? What perspectives are you expecting on a Scottish football forum?

If you're the man you seem to be you need to get over it and vote the ***** out. IMO, obvs.

If nothing else, a Democrat president trying Trumpian shenanigans would get proper pushback from within his party.

They might not be perfect but there are more good guys in there than in the GOP.

[Cade]

Superb ambush at the daily presser.

Reporter: "After nearly four years in office do you regret the thousands of lies you've told?"

Donny: "The what?"
Reporter: "The lies, the untruths, the dishonesties..."
Donny: "That's who's done?"

Reporter: "You, Mr President"

Donny: "NEXT QUESTION"

 

[JFK-1]

Possibly just sheer frustration from the one who asked about the lies. They all know before he comes out there that the entire farce is just going to be yet another litany of utter shit.

While others will be thinking well if we just ask about the constant lying he will stop talking and/or leave. May as well just go through the ritual of asking the questions to get something. 
 

Quote

According to a fact-checking database compiled by the Washington Post, Trump has made 20,055 “false or misleading claims” since the start of his presidency.

 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

8 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

You might not feel I'm being OTT if you were actually from here, or had ever lived here for any extended period.

 

 

I'll remind you of this one too next time you're hanging shit on me for my petty loathing of all things Celtic.

 

[Cade]

Trump right off the bat suggesting that Harris maybe possibly wasn't born in the USA and is ineligible to hold office.

 

Another election, another racist "birther" conspiracy theory.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Cade

[JFK-1]

I think I would play along. Oh a paper contest Donny? Okay I will play, you bring your tax returns and I will bring my birth certificate.

[Maple Leaf]

2 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

I think I would play along. Oh a paper contest Donny? Okay I will play, you bring your tax returns and I will bring my birth certificate.

 

That's the game to play for sure.  I saw a commentator on TV last night, with tongue planted firmly in cheek, suggest that Trump had been born in Scotland. 

 

I thought about calling in to the station and saying that there was no chance Trump was born in Scotland, that we drown children like him at birth, in a bucket of water.

 

[milky_26]

54 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

That's the game to play for sure.  I saw a commentator on TV last night, with tongue planted firmly in cheek, suggest that Trump had been born in Scotland. 

 

I thought about calling in to the station and saying that there was no chance Trump was born in Scotland, that we drown children like him at birth, in a bucket of water.

 

it is different on the islands, a wicker man is used

[Cade]

3 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

I think I would play along. Oh a paper contest Donny? Okay I will play, you bring your tax returns and I will bring my birth certificate.

 

AOC kicked his erse on Twitter after he called her "not a smart person"

 

[Justin Z]

9 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

And I might feel differently if I had tits and a tail, but so what? What perspectives are you expecting on a Scottish football forum?

If you're the man you seem to be you need to get over it and vote the ***** out. IMO, obvs.

If nothing else, a Democrat president trying Trumpian shenanigans would get proper pushback from within his party.

They might not be perfect but there are more good guys in there than in the GOP.

 

I am 100% not convinced of the bit in bold, at all. Nor the sentence after it.

 

And yeah, I obviously don't expect insights about American politics born of lived experiences on a Scottish football forum. I also don't think it's unreasonable, given that backdrop, to gently tell you that you're talking shite, have no idea what you're on about, and I'll "get over it" on my own good time, thanks.

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Justin Z

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

 

I am 100% not convinced of the bit in bold, at all. Nor the sentence after it.

 

And yeah, I obviously don't expect insights about American politics born of lived experiences on a Scottish football forum. I also don't think it's unreasonable, given that backdrop, to gently tell you that you're talking shite, have no idea what you're on about, and I'll "get over it" on my own good time, thanks.

 

Maybe, maybe not, these are opinions not hard facts so who's to say?

 

I think sometimes you can be too close to a problem and lose the big picture, at the end of the day Trump's a threat to our planet and has to be removed.

[Sharpie]

It is hard to get excited about an election where the combatants are two  very elderly men. I am in no position to criticise these much younger elderly persons, but have been their age and know that there does come a time where even if its your surname  you are not as sharp as you once were. In saying this I am talking about a normal job, President of the United States is anything but. Unbelievable that a Country the size of the USA, with the high level educational opportunities available cannot find   a suitable candidate in the middle age range to run for the Office. In Trump they have a man  of strapped in obesity, some questions unanswered about his health, and Biden who if he served two terms would be an even older relic than he is now. Neither man can elucidate what he is saying, both stumble despite having written words to follow, the whole thing is like a movie the type we often see with a group of old actors acting the way they really are, old farts.

[Justin Z]

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

Maybe, maybe not, these are opinions not hard facts so who's to say?

 

I think sometimes you can be too close to a problem and lose the big picture, at the end of the day Trump's a threat to our planet and has to be removed.

 

You are right about losing the forest for the trees, but mate. The DNC doesn't give a **** about defeating Trump. They would not have hand-picked Biden if they did. There are too many legitimate reasons to never vote for him and they would not literally ignore the breakaway of an entire election-winning portion of voters, if what they actually cared about was getting Trump out of office.

 

Not only is the DNC run by 1%ers who very much benefit from this administration, they get to look damn good opposing Trump in the public eye—a win-win. When it comes to their bank accounts and the public's opinion they will choose themselves every time, and still pretend to sell us on a candidate we can't make an argument for based on any actual merits.

 

In the meantime what's left is we are forced to compromise on every single bit of ethics we claim to want Trump out of office for.

 

That's the forest I see. What are the trees getting in my way?

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, Sharpie said:

know that there does come a time where even if its your surname  you are not as sharp as you once were.

 

This one-liner alone proves you're still sharper than most.

[JFK-1]

 

[XB52]

3 hours ago, Smithee said:

Maybe, maybe not, these are opinions not hard facts so who's to say?

 

I think sometimes you can be too close to a problem and lose the big picture, at the end of the day Trump's a threat to our planet and has to be removed.

My cousins in California are the biggest trump haters going but they are no fans of Biden and detest Harris. Pretty  sure they will hold their noses and vote Biden though

[JFK-1]

To lift the spirits a little while hoping the curse of Trump will soon be lifted from our era. The type of coming together moment that would be impossible in the US in the age of Trump?
 

 

[J.T.F.Robertson]

8 hours ago, Sharpie said:

I have been their age and know that there does come a time where even if its your surname  you are not as sharp as you once were. 

 

It doesn’t only apply to whatever your surname might be, but right on the button.

Hope you're somehow hanging in, Bob.

 

[Cade]

USA got humiliated at the UN

They'd pushed a resolution to re-instate arms embargoes on Iran.

 

Votes for: USA, Dominican Republic.

Votes against: Russia, China.

Absentions: Rest of the world.

 

Trump's feckin raging and threatening to invoke the "spring back" clause in the Iran Nuclear deal which allows one party of the deal to instantly reimpose sanctions.

Only thing is, he pulled the USA out of that deal a while back.

 

 

[Maple Leaf]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

USA got humiliated at the UN

They'd pushed a resolution to re-instate arms embargoes on Iran.

 

Votes for: USA, Dominican Republic.

Votes against: Russia, China.

Absentions: Rest of the world.

 

Trump's feckin raging and threatening to invoke the "spring back" clause in the Iran Nuclear deal which allows one party of the deal to instantly reimpose sanctions.

Only thing is, he pulled the USA out of that deal a while back.

 

 

 

America likes to think of itself as a big player in the Middle East, and it once was, but actions by the Trump administration have put it on the sidelines.  Russia and China are happy to fill the void.

 

I'm guessing that this has been part of Trump's MAGA strategy.

[Cade]

USA now saying that although they said they pulled out of the Iran deal they never really pulled out of it and so can invoke the sanctions clause.

 

 

They're a laughing stock

[Justin Z]

Oh my ****ing god

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, weehammy said:

You on Kamala Harris - ‘She’s awful’!

 

Correct! You have successfully shown that it's possible for multiple people to be awful at the same time. You will not see me wishing Kamala Harris or Ghislaine Maxwell, well.

 

Any other questions?

[JFK-1]

 

[Maple Leaf]

China is establishing a strong presence in Latin America and the Caribbean.  Previous Presidents would never have allowed this to go unchallenged.  MAGA?

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/15/americas/latam-china-us-covid-diplomacy-intl/index.html

 

[JFK-1]

I gave up on highlighting how stupid the MAGA thing is a while back. We all know it was always meaningless. Nothing but a stupid slogan/chant for the citizens of idiocracy.

[JFK-1]

Just How Far Will Trump Go?

President Donald Trump’s open admission yesterday that he’s sabotaging the Postal Service to improve his election prospects crystallizes a much larger dynamic: He’s waging an unprecedented campaign to weaponize virtually every component of the federal government to partisan advantage.

Trump is systematically enlisting agencies, including the Postal Service, Census Bureau, Department of Justice, and Department of Homeland Security, that traditionally have been considered at least somewhat insulated from political machinations to reward his allies and punish those he considers his enemies.

He is razing barriers between his personal and political interests and the core operations of the federal government to an extent that no president has previously attempted, a wide range of public-administration experts have told me.

“There’s always been temptation … but no president in modern times has taken action so explicitly and obviously—or transparently—to influence and actually direct these agencies to favor the party in power,” Paul Light, a public-service professor at New York University, told me. “None. None.”

Presidents have always put their stamp on the federal government. It’s common for regulatory agencies, for instance, to dramatically shift direction in their attitude toward Big Business when partisan control of the White House changes.

And presidents have always rewarded their political supporters, at times causing scandals because of questionable Cabinet appointments or procurement decisions.

But no matter which individuals were appointed to lead them, some agencies have always been considered more protected from politics. It’s those barriers that Trump, with the tacit support of congressional Republicans, is steadily dismantling.

Presidents have used the Postal Service to reward loyalists with jobs since the country’s earliest history. But they didn’t expect what Trump does from the agency.

“The whole spoils system goes back to having supporters who were appointed as postmasters,” says Kedric Payne, the general counsel of the nonpartisan Campaign Legal Center and a former top official at the Office of Congressional Ethics. “But it wasn’t to disrupt the election.”

The result of Trump’s moves: an executive branch whose full reach and power is being conscripted to serve the president’s immediate interests.

“All of it comes from a place that whatever is in his personal interest—whether it’s financial, reputational, or political—if it benefits him, the government is merely a tool for serving himself,”

Walter Shaub, the director of the Office of Government Ethics under former President Barack Obama, told me. “He has simply crossed lines that no one would even conceive of crossing in the past.”

His determination to harness federal power to his personal advantage links his choices throughout his presidency, including funneling federal dollars into businesses he owns and withholding military aid for Ukraine in exchange for an election favor, the actions that led to his impeachment in the House last year.

Experts I spoke with said that Trump has dramatically accelerated the pace of his efforts to weaponize federal actions since his Senate acquittal, when every Republican, except Utah’s Mitt Romney, voted to dismiss the charges against him with no sanction and not even a full-scale trial to explore the evidence.

Beyond his recent efforts to impede mail delivery, Trump has:
 

Rapidly purged inspectors general across the federal government, replacing five of them within a short period, including the intelligence-community IG who forwarded to Congress the whistleblower complaint that triggered Trump’s impeachment.

Openly pressured the Justice Department to back off the prosecution of his former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn, and to request more lenient sentencing for his ally Roger Stone. Trump later commuted Stone’s sentence outright.

Deployed federal law-enforcement officials from the Department of Homeland Security to confront protesters in Portland, Oregon, and other cities over the explicit objection of governors and mayors.

Enlisted the military into his campaign against protesters, drafting Defense Secretary Mark Esper and Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Mark Milley to accompany him during his walk to St. John’s Church in Washington, D.C., after armed personnel forcibly cleared out peaceful protesters. The decision prompted so much concern in the military that Milley later apologized.

Taken repeated steps to manipulate the results of the decennial census in a manner that could undercount people of color and benefit the Republican Party.

he Supreme Court stopped Trump from adding a citizenship question to the census, but the administration now says it intends to exclude undocumented immigrants from the population counts used to apportion congressional seats and Electoral College votes among the states.

It also announced it will cut off efforts to contact households that haven’t responded to the census on September 30, despite the disruption caused by the coronavirus outbreak. Census experts and former Census Bureau directors have said that such a truncated schedule is guaranteed to undercount minorities.

The deployment of federal agents this summer may represent the most tangible manifestation of Trump’s determination to wield the federal government as a weapon against his political enemies.

Light, who has studied the federal government’s operations for decades and is usually no alarmist, describes it as “shocking.” Sending those assets into cities over the objection of their mayors, he told me, “does resemble the early days of a police state, I’m sorry to say it.”

But if those deployments comprise the most visceral example, Trump’s attempts to manipulate the census may provide the most revealing measure of just how much he’s willing to distort federal operations to benefit himself and his party—and how far congressional Republicans will go in abetting him.

In the past, the census has occasionally faced questions about its accuracy. But never before has there been evidence of a president deliberately trying to skew the results in a manner that helps one party.

“I don’t think there’s ever been a charge that the census was systematically unfair,” says Donald Kettl, a longtime scholar of federal administration, now at the University of Texas at Austin.

Until now, the reason for avoiding census tampering has seemed obvious: It was thought that everyone benefits from an accurate count (just as everyone was thought to benefit from an apolitical military, among other institutions Trump has tried to manipulate).

Billions of dollars in federal aid are tied to population, so presumably every state would want as many of its people counted as possible. “A complete count is important no matter what state you are in, because so many federal and state programs are tied to the numbers of people,” Steve Murdock, who served as the Census Bureau’s director under President George W. Bush, told me.

“You don’t gain much by not counting the people you have to provide services for.”

But in a political environment defined by widening polarization along racial and geographic lines, that traditional restraint has apparently broken down. Hardly any congressional Republicans have raised concerns about Trump’s determination to curtail the census count.

That includes Republicans from highly diverse states across the Sun Belt, which are likely to be among the biggest losers if minority populations are systematically undercounted, both in terms of federal aid and the apportionment of congressional seats and Electoral College votes.

This week, I asked the offices of GOP senators from Florida, Texas, Arizona, and Georgia if they had any objection to Trump short-circuiting the census count.

All refused to respond, except Florida’s Marco Rubio, whose staff referred me only to a comment he’d made on a related issue, Trump’s effort to exclude the undocumented from apportionment.

(And even on that question, Rubio avoided taking a definitive position.) Republican governors in those states have not raised concerns publicly either.

“I am just dumbfounded,” said Murdock, who also served for many years as Texas’s state demographer. “I don’t know why Texas would let this happen. The elected officials should be screaming: ‘Count those people; we are providing services for them.’”

Although the House has approved legislation extending the deadline for reporting census results until next April, giving the bureau more time to reach unresponsive Americans, the Senate has refused to consider the measure.

Instead, just as with Postal Service slowdowns that may disproportionately hurt rural communities, many Republicans appear to have concluded that they are willing to accept collateral damage to their own constituencies for the partisan gain Trump’s actions could provide.

Counting fewer people of color in Texas or Florida might mean fewer federal dollars, and even less representation in Congress. But it also could benefit Republicans in next year’s redistricting, making it tougher for civil-rights groups to legally challenge gerrymandered lines for providing insufficient representation to minorities.

“Republicans are in on the deal,” says Simon Rosenberg, the founder of the Democratic research-and-advocacy group NDN, referring to the GOP’s effective approval of Trump’s actions concerning both the census and the Postal Service.

“They want Trump to blunt the size of the Democratic victory this year at all costs … They want Trump to stick his finger in the demographic dam that could make them the minority party for a generation.”

This corrosive synergy binds other elements of Trump’s campaign to weaponize more federal functions. Payne says Trump’s offensive has proceeded in two stages.

First, he systematically defied congressional oversight—ignoring subpoenas and demands for testimony—and fired inspectors general who were in his path.

Congressional Republicans helped by supporting his defiance of oversight and voting almost unanimously not to punish his actions in Ukraine.

With those potential sources of resistance blunted, Payne says, Trump has moved more openly than before to manipulate federal operations that will directly influence the outcome of this election (the Postal Service) and the distribution of political power for years to come (the census).

“Where now that you have no recourse that Congress can take to impeach or investigate the administration, and you don’t have the IGs, that lays the groundwork to then go after these positions that could influence the election,” Payne says.

By politicizing agencies so overtly, Trump is creating a situation in which the right will accuse Joe Biden, if he wins, of engaging in political manipulation simply by reverting them to their more traditional roles. Conservatives, for instance, will surely scream if a President Biden removes loyalists whom Trump has installed in inspector-general positions.

An even more dramatic outcome of Biden winning in November: Some experts believe that his administration could reopen the census before transmitting the data for reapportioning congressional seats.

Under current federal law, Trump must transmit the results to Congress for reapportionment purposes by year’s end. But some believe a President Biden could order the bureau to spend several more months pursuing the households it has not yet reached.

The next president can say, ‘I decertify it,’” says Robert Shapiro, who helped oversee the 2000 census as the Commerce Department’s undersecretary for economic affairs under Bill Clinton. “You can say, ‘I’m not going to redo it, [but] we are going to carry out the operation that was truncated.’”

(There’s no apparent precedent for reopening the census during a change of administrations, which means that the Supreme Court would likely decide whether doing so is legal if Biden takes that route.)

And if Trump wins? The public-administration experts universally told me that the accelerating pace of Trump’s excesses—without meaningful complaint from congressional Republicans—signals that in a second term, he is likely to push much further in refashioning the federal government for his own ends.

Rosenberg framed Trump’s actions in dramatic terms. Trump, in his combative speeches around the July 4 holiday, claimed that “far-left fascism” is trying to “overthrow” and “destroy” American “civilization”—allegations that could justify almost any level of “authoritarian crackdown by the government of the United States against the president’s domestic political opponents,” Rosenberg argues.

“We are watching an authoritarian in action before our eyes. And we haven’t woken up to the significance of what we are seeing, frankly.”

Those are accusations that have rarely been directed at an American president. But as students of democracy point out, the pattern of subordinating all government operations to the interests of one party, and even one individual, is a core characteristic of illiberal and authoritarian countries.

Shaub, like Rosenberg, sees exactly that end point. “I think if he’s reelected, the republic may die—and I’m having to force myself to say ‘may’ so I don’t sound like a complete alarmist,” Shaub, now a senior adviser to the government-watchdog group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, said starkly.

“But I don’t see how the government can survive four more years of this … Whatever your worst fears are for whatever comes next aren’t as bad as it will be, by a long shot.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/08/trumps-weaponization-usps-and-census/615235/

[Justin Z]

See, that's the thing

 

 

Exact same shit Trump is pulling now, but spread across two terms, not two months.

 

"The Republic may die?" With everything I have, I want to believe I'd be doing the right thing by putting that tick next to Joe Biden's name—on the premise that the Republic not dying would be a good thing. All the evidence tells me otherwise. All the evidence tells me, this is what the Republic is and has always been, just now it's a hundred times more in our face than before, and that's the only difference.

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Justin Z

[Justin Z]

Yeah. This.

America's death march: Whoever wins, this election won't save us

 

"We run heedlessly into the abyss after putting something in front of us to stop us seeing it," Pascal wrote.

 

Exactly.

[Jamhammer]

I just watched the four part Sky Doc Hilary, about Hilary Clinton. They pretty much agreed Trump is the vehicle for other people's actual agendas and is, somehow getting away with doing and saying things that would have destroyed other presidents. The bit with the debates with Trump is eye opening.

I'd recommend the documentary. I didn't know a lot about her. The blatant sexism throughout her political career is mad.

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

13 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

China is establishing a strong presence in Latin America and the Caribbean.  Previous Presidents would never have allowed this to go unchallenged.  MAGA?

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/15/americas/latam-china-us-covid-diplomacy-intl/index.html

 

 

They've been getting aggressive in that region since 2011 and especially since 2015. What did Obama do to stop them? 

[Norm]

7 hours ago, Justin Z said:

Yeah. This.

America's death march: Whoever wins, this election won't save us

 

"We run heedlessly into the abyss after putting something in front of us to stop us seeing it," Pascal wrote.

 

Exactly.

I do kind of feel sorry for you, Mr Z. 

 

We're giving it all "You have to vote for Biden, you can't let that **** stump win a second term! And anyway, what's the problem? Biden is a Democrat, he's on the left, he's a good guy!" 

 

But it's pretty clear your political persuasion is a more European style left, as opposed to the American style left-but-actually-more-conservative-than-the-Conservatives.

 

You don't actually have a candidate who represents you. I can only imagine it's akin to me being asked to vote between Farage or Boris. 

 

But for the sake of the rest of the world, gonnae suck up the shit and vote Biden, eh? Because the truth is, unfortunately, that your country is ****ed. You're not going to get the US that you want. You guys are too far gone. If I was you, I'd vote Biden and get the hell out of dodge, move overseas. To me, it's pretty clear you are never going to get to live in a US that you believe in. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Normthebarman

[Governor Tarkin]

2 minutes ago, Normthebarman said:

I do kind of feel sorry for you, Mr Z. 

 

We're giving it all "You have to vote for Biden, you can't let that **** stump win a second term! And anyway, what's the problem? Biden is a Democrat, he's on the left, he's a good guy!" 

 

But it's pretty clear your political persuasion is a more European style left, as opposed to the American style left-but-actually-more-conservative-than-the-Conservatives.

 

You don't actually have a candidate who represents you. I can only imagine it's akin to me being asked to vote for Farage or Boris. 

 

But for the sake of the rest of the world, gonnae suck up the shit and vote Biden, eh? Because the truth is, unfortunately, that your country is ****ed. You're not going to get the US that you want. You guys are too far gone. If I was you, I'd vote Biden and get the hell out of dodge, move overseas. To me, it's pretty clear you are never going to get to live in a US that you believe in. 

 

This is a good post, @Justin Z.

 

Maybe get that pint eventually. 👍

[Boof]

If Biden wins (where if = surely to **** they can't let that ****ing lunatic loose for another 4 years) how long is it going to take him to undo all the shit Trump has done and actually get on with being the President?

[Sharpie]

The problems faced by Americans who no doubt can be held responsible for their own particular political views is so comprehensive now there is no single solution.

They have a media that is so politically motivated it is difficult for someone like me to get a true perspective on the truth.CNN and MSNBC slant their stories in favor of Democratic candidates, whilst Fox is all Trump. They each call their non favorite candidate a liar, and a dittering old fool, { my terminology} but for an ineligible voter it would seem both are actually correct. Trump is nothing short of a disgrace, Biden is a " unfortunately at this time the best we got" candidate who is using the race card to bolster his chances with a black female VP candidate. The reports I see do not make her sound the most reliable person, other than for her own advancement, she is no doubt tough,but is criticised strongly for her performance as  Attorney in California. 

 

The murder by police in Minnesota has created an intolerable situation. In two towns geographically close to where I live, Portland and Seattle are occupied by rioting groups, both are run by Democratic councils, are accused by Trump of allowing civil unrest and are a foreboding of a USA under Democratic rule, meanwhile Democrats say its all GOP caused. In both cities Federal law enforcement officers were used to protect Federal buildings these men were unidentified used unmarked vehicles and seemed to be under the control of no identified authority. In both Trump has offered to use the National Guard, a military organisation.  The rioters seem to be those composed of BLM believers and those with an alternative view. Common to both was looting and unrelated damage to private property.  The type of thing we used to see in the real old days in countries none of us had yet visited or had been motivated to see.

 

An election one way or another is not going to help, we have the current President because he is so, has to accept responsibility for this chaos, Biden it is veilly suggested is looking at a four year term when he because of age will step down and hand over to his nominated Vice President candidate. 

 

The USA at the moment is very similar to newsreels I watched in the earliest days of my life, knowing what violence was, but not understanding the motivation and reasons for same, already being brainwashed with the advice "dinnae worry son it cannae happen here", well for me it is right now in the good old USA, and that is only a short drive from here, where I am sitting right now. I can understand our American Jambo who is torn how to vote in the election, to vote for one of the candidates could be seen as enabling, a vote for someone who has no hope of election is equally bad, the vote is sacred, but like sometimes in life you wonder what do I do now.

[JFK-1]

Whatever the flaws of Biden/Harris may be they're nothing beside the insanity of Trump and his crazed cult. He's trampling all over the norms of American democracy while not even trying to hide it. And given the chance will push the country ever further into dystopian authoritarianism.

He's not even trying to hide the fact he's trying to suppress votes to rig an election. Even in tin pot dictatorships they try to hide it. Biden does care about the future of the country. Trump cares about nothing but the future of Trump. And staying in that office may keep him out of jail.

Everybody knows he's been collaborating with not just a foreign power but a major enemy foreign power. That alone should be enough to accept anybody but him. And there's so much more it's too vast to go into.

[Unknown user]

4 hours ago, Normthebarman said:

I do kind of feel sorry for you, Mr Z. 

 

We're giving it all "You have to vote for Biden, you can't let that **** stump win a second term! And anyway, what's the problem? Biden is a Democrat, he's on the left, he's a good guy!" 

 

But it's pretty clear your political persuasion is a more European style left, as opposed to the American style left-but-actually-more-conservative-than-the-Conservatives.

 

You don't actually have a candidate who represents you. I can only imagine it's akin to me being asked to vote between Farage or Boris. 

 

But for the sake of the rest of the world, gonnae suck up the shit and vote Biden, eh? Because the truth is, unfortunately, that your country is ****ed. You're not going to get the US that you want. You guys are too far gone. If I was you, I'd vote Biden and get the hell out of dodge, move overseas. To me, it's pretty clear you are never going to get to live in a US that you believe in. 

 

[Justin Z]

4 hours ago, Normthebarman said:

But for the sake of the rest of the world, gonnae suck up the shit and vote Biden, eh? Because the truth is, unfortunately, that your country is ****ed. You're not going to get the US that you want. You guys are too far gone. If I was you, I'd vote Biden and get the hell out of dodge, move overseas. To me, it's pretty clear you are never going to get to live in a US that you believe in. 

 

I appreciate your post, especially this bit, and doubly especially the bit in bold. You've admittedly probably nailed what I'll do, at least up to the "move overseas" part. I tried that, and here I am stuck back in the desert, amidst a pandemic. That's a big part of why this is so personally frustrating, but that's neither here nor there.

 

Either way, can't wait to get our "leftists" back in office, eh?

$7.25—equivalent to about £5.50—in a country with no universal healthcare and few other social benefits/safety net, and in a place with a relatively high cost of living/rent index (the 14th highest in the world)

 

Everything you wrote is spot on, Norm. Having even a glimpse at the transformation we wanted to see snatched away from us in both 2016 and 2020 by a corrupt DNC will have been the final straw for a great many people who will simply not vote for Biden now as they have had it with the Dems, and as I said, I think the establishment are perfectly okay with that.

 

Ah well, no matter what I do, my ballot will doubtless "get lost in the post" anyway

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Justin Z