U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[Mysterion]

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/497697-fbi-serves-search-warrant-on-sen-richard-burr-amid-stock-trading-scandal
 

Burr sold off stocks ahead of crashes. He’s also not Trump’s good books and suddenly being investigated. 

[DarthVodka]

1 hour ago, Boof said:

 

And if someone else gets there first he'll either try to buy up the rights to it or have a tantrum when he doesn't get it for a knockdown price.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/12/the-race-for-a-vaccine-how-trumps-america-first-approach-slows-the-global-search

 

 

[JamboDrew]

22 hours ago, Sharpie said:

 

I see why you are a fan of Donald you have the same difficulty of comprehension as he does. Just to try and explain a wee bit further fifteen years ago the medication being discussed was possibly quite effective in treatment of the known corona viruses, and well may have been   correctly recommended by Dr Fauci, but this is a different strain and he does/did not recommend its use for covid 19.

 

 

Plenty of other "proper" doctors (the type that actually treat patients), throughout the world seem to be in favour of it.

 

A few links

 

French frontline doctors begging to be given it: https://uk.news.yahoo.com/french-doctors-renew-push-clear-133952022.html

 

Africa: https://www.france24.com/en/20200503-covid-19-in-cameroon-a-chloroquine-therapy-hailed-by-french-expert-becomes-state-protocol

             https://www.theafricareport.com/26726/coronavirus-recovery-rate-is-there-a-senegalese-exception/

 

Middle East: https://english.alarabiya.net/en/coronavirus/2020/05/15/UAE-uses-hydroxychloroquine-remdesivir-to-treat-coronavirus-Health-official

 

Florida (in contravention of the esteemed  "Dr" Faucci) https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coronavirus/os-ne-coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine-central-florida-20200514-db6gt5huf5cjtczj62omjppire-story.html

 

Asia: https://www.msn.com/en-in/health/medical/covid-19-india-gives-200000-hydroxychloroquine-tablets-other-medical-supplies-to-myanmar/ar-BB13CbNd

 

 

 

 

 

[JamboDrew]

14 hours ago, graygo said:

 

Yes, he's posted it 3 times.

How much proof do you need?

Here's seven years ago: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/wow-dr-fauci-cheered-hydroxychloroquine-success-treating-mers-coronavirus-2013-today-skeptical-weird/

[graygo]

4 minutes ago, JamboDrew said:

Here's seven years ago: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/wow-dr-fauci-cheered-hydroxychloroquine-success-treating-mers-coronavirus-2013-today-skeptical-weird/

 

Here's something else -

 

MERS is not Covid-19.

 

[JamboDrew]

Just now, graygo said:

 

Here's something else -

 

MERS is not Covid-19.

 

Just now, graygo said:

 

But it is a corona virus? As is Covid-19?

[redjambo]

A study of 1438 patients with Covid-19 in New York (the largest study of its kind) was published a few days ago, showing that:

 

Among patients hospitalized with COVID-19, treatment with hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, or both was not associated with significantly lower in-hospital mortality.

 

In other words, hydroxychloroquine is snake oil when it comes to the treatment of Covid-19.

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766117

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, JamboDrew said:

 

But it is a corona virus? As is Covid-19?

 

And measles and canine distemper virus are both morbilliviruses. However, that doesn't mean that the treatment for similar viruses is the same.

 

I don't know who you are but your sort of fake politicised science is not only dangerous, but is also disrespectful of the scientific knowledge that we humans have carefully amassed over thousands of years. It is almost like you and your ilk are intentionally trying to take humanity back to the era of lucky charms and magic potions sold by charlatans and quacks. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

 

 

[trotter]

2 hours ago, JamboDrew said:

Plenty of other "proper" doctors (the type that actually treat patients), throughout the world seem to be in favour of it.

 

A few links

 

French frontline doctors begging to be given it: https://uk.news.yahoo.com/french-doctors-renew-push-clear-133952022.html

 

Africa: https://www.france24.com/en/20200503-covid-19-in-cameroon-a-chloroquine-therapy-hailed-by-french-expert-becomes-state-protocol

             https://www.theafricareport.com/26726/coronavirus-recovery-rate-is-there-a-senegalese-exception/

 

Middle East: https://english.alarabiya.net/en/coronavirus/2020/05/15/UAE-uses-hydroxychloroquine-remdesivir-to-treat-coronavirus-Health-official

 

Florida (in contravention of the esteemed  "Dr" Faucci) https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coronavirus/os-ne-coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine-central-florida-20200514-db6gt5huf5cjtczj62omjppire-story.html

 

Asia: https://www.msn.com/en-in/health/medical/covid-19-india-gives-200000-hydroxychloroquine-tablets-other-medical-supplies-to-myanmar/ar-BB13CbNd

 

 

 

 

 

Why do you feel the need to use quote marks around "Dr"? He is a board certified physician and a globally-recognized expert in the field of infectious diseases. There is absolutely no question of his qualifications and title. Yet "people" like yourself and every other misinformed internet expert insist on attempting to cast doubt on things like this because it doesn't fit with the irrational, ill-conceived and barely coherent narrative you have come up with. 

COME ON SHEEPLE, LISTEN!! THE DEEP STATE IS BREEDING TERRORIST GAYS UNDER THE CONTROL OF RUSSIAN SATELLITES USED TO HIDE DATA ABOUT UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS THAT GIVE HOUSE PRICES AIDS!! WHEN WILL YOU WAKE UP AND THINK FOR YOURSELF!!

It's both genuinely astonishing and truly frightening the level of stupidity some people on this planet possess. 

[JamboDrew]

11 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

And measles and canine distemper virus are both morbilliviruses. However, that doesn't mean that the treatment for similar viruses is the same.

 

I don't know who you are but your sort of fake politicised science is not only dangerous, but is also disrespectful of the scientific knowledge that we humans have carefully amassed over thousands of years. It is almost like you and your ilk are intentionally trying to take humanity back to the era of lucky charms and magic potions sold by charlatans and quacks. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

 

 

I don't know who you are either.

 

Look above at my links.

 

Doctors, who know better than I, are trying to save lives using drugs they beleive to work.

 

Are you suggesting those doctors in third world countries are somehow beneath you and your superior knowledge?

 

Or are you just one of the usual JKB bigots?

[Notts1874]

Jambo Drew is definitely a burner account for somebody who has previously been banned. 

 

He is also a nasty and dangerous individual. 

[DarthVodka]

There is not much conclusive data on hydrochloroquine, trials contradict themselves - one in Brazil actually increased the death rate in the treatment group when compared to control

 

FDA approved this as there is nothing else. Some people have recovered after treatment, but they may have recovered anyway 

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 hours ago, Notts1874 said:

Jambo Drew is definitely a burner account for somebody who has previously been banned. 

 

He is also a nasty and dangerous individual. 

[Norm]

3 hours ago, Notts1874 said:

Jambo Drew is definitely a burner account for somebody who has previously been banned. 

 

He is also a nasty and dangerous individual. 

 

6 hours ago, JamboDrew said:

I don't know who you are either.

 

Look above at my links.

 

Doctors, who know better than I, are trying to save lives using drugs they beleive to work.

 

Are you suggesting those doctors in third world countries are somehow beneath you and your superior knowledge?

 

Or are you just one of the usual JKB bigots?

Are you suggesting you're smarter than the even bigger **** ton of doctors who say hydromahoogywaggy is no use? 

[graygo]

2 hours ago, DarthVodka said:

There is not much conclusive data on hydrochloroquine, trials contradict themselves - one in Brazil actually increased the death rate in the treatment group when compared to control

 

FDA approved this as there is nothing else. Some people have recovered after treatment, but they may have recovered anyway 

 

Is it not the case that hydroxychloroquine has been approved by the FDA because it is a useful drug for treating malaria? Nothing to do with Covid-19. Aspirin is also FDA approved but nothing to do with Covid-19.

Not sure if what I've typed makes sense or not.

[ri Alban]

Has that pub in Canada changed it's name.

[redjambo]

6 hours ago, JamboDrew said:

I don't know who you are either.

 

Look above at my links.

 

Doctors, who know better than I, are trying to save lives using drugs they believe to work.

 

Are you suggesting those doctors in third world countries are somehow beneath you and your superior knowledge?

 

Or are you just one of the usual JKB bigots?

 

You are of course confused. It is not my knowledge we're talking about here, it is accepted scientific knowledge, as illustrated by in-depth field research in New York and backed up by other recent research. My knowledge, and your knowledge, and especially my opinions and your opinions, are nothing in comparison to such science.

 

If you want to personally go back and live in the dark ages, then by all means do so, that's your choice, but don't try and drag others back there with you in the name of fake science.

[JamboDrew]

6 hours ago, trotter said:

Why do you feel the need to use quote marks around "Dr"? He is a board certified physician and a globally-recognized expert in the field of infectious diseases. There is absolutely no question of his qualifications and title. Yet "people" like yourself and every other misinformed internet expert insist on attempting to cast doubt on things like this because it doesn't fit with the irrational, ill-conceived and barely coherent narrative you have come up with. 

COME ON SHEEPLE, LISTEN!! THE DEEP STATE IS BREEDING TERRORIST GAYS UNDER THE CONTROL OF RUSSIAN SATELLITES USED TO HIDE DATA ABOUT UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS THAT GIVE HOUSE PRICES AIDS!! WHEN WILL YOU WAKE UP AND THINK FOR YOURSELF!!

It's both genuinely astonishing and truly frightening the level of stupidity some people on this planet possess. 

Because real doctors, without quotation marks, actually treat patients.

 

They don't stand on stage, promoting untested and expensive drugs, that would  make them or their mates rich,  whilst downplaying a cheap alternative, that has been safely used in the  treatment of malaria for decades.

 

The same "Dr" having previously recommended this cheap drug for other corona viruses in the past.

 

All the while, real doctors, treating real patients, throughout the world, are using this cheap drug.

 

If you were a real doctor, treating real patients, when tens of thousands are dying, would you not maybe consider this cheap drug?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tazio]

4 minutes ago, JamboDrew said:

.

The same "Dr" having previously recommended this cheap drug for other corona viruses in the past.

 

Which bit of viruses evolve, change, and mutate is so difficult to grasp? 

[milky_26]

6 minutes ago, Tazio said:

Which bit of viruses evolve, change, and mutate is so difficult to grasp? 

1+1=2 is too much for that poster to grasp

[Maple Leaf]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Has that pub in Canada changed it's name.

 

[ri Alban]

7 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

[DarthVodka]

1 hour ago, graygo said:

 

Is it not the case that hydroxychloroquine has been approved by the FDA because it is a useful drug for treating malaria? Nothing to do with Covid-19. Aspirin is also FDA approved but nothing to do with Covid-19.

Not sure if what I've typed makes sense or not.

 

Yes makes sense to me - but the FDA has granted emergency approval for COVID http://www.pmlive.com/pharma_news/fda_grants_emergency_authorisation_to_chloroquine_for_covid-19_1331981

 

the MHRA has approved no COVID treatments - but is heavily prompting adverse reactions/safety events on off label use to be reported to them.  UK is also doing their own study of chloroquine under the ACCORD-1 program

[trotter]

2 hours ago, JamboDrew said:

Because real doctors, without quotation marks, actually treat patients.

Isn't helping patients through co-ordination of research into the most effective forms of treatment helping them as well? Or should we just leave that to 'real' doctors who have been given no guidance on this brand new mutation of a virus?

2 hours ago, JamboDrew said:

 

They don't stand on stage, promoting untested and expensive drugs, that would  make them or their mates rich,  whilst downplaying a cheap alternative, that has been safely used in the  treatment of malaria for decades.

But we're not trying to treat malaria are we? Additionally, there appears to be evidence cited numerous times by people above that it doesn't do any real good against COVID-19

2 hours ago, JamboDrew said:

 

The same "Dr" having previously recommended this cheap drug for other corona viruses in the past.

What part of all viruses (even within the same family) aren't the same can you not grasp? What works for one does not necessarily work for another. To use an example that I am familiar with, if you spilled some acid or some phosphorus on your skin you'd probably just rinse them with water, because they are 'both' chemical burns after all aren't they? Wrong, water is precisely the right thing to use for acid, but it will make a phosphorus burn significantly worse. 

2 hours ago, JamboDrew said:

 

All the while, real doctors, treating real patients, throughout the world, are using this cheap drug.

See above

2 hours ago, JamboDrew said:

 

If you were a real doctor, treating real patients, when tens of thousands are dying, would you not maybe consider this cheap drug?

Not if it doesn't actually work. Why waste peoples time?

 

 

I sincerely hope that you are either at it for attention, or are somewhere in the region of 12 - 15 years old.

[Sharpie]

Some suggestions the Donald is going to cut all relations with China and will no longer converse with Xi.  Oh Jambo Drew baby get your bone spurs working, or learn "Yes Master " in Chinese.

 

[Unknown user]

11 hours ago, trotter said:

Why do you feel the need to use quote marks around "Dr"? He is a board certified physician and a globally-recognized expert in the field of infectious diseases. There is absolutely no question of his qualifications and title. Yet "people" like yourself and every other misinformed internet expert insist on attempting to cast doubt on things like this because it doesn't fit with the irrational, ill-conceived and barely coherent narrative you have come up with. 

COME ON SHEEPLE, LISTEN!! THE DEEP STATE IS BREEDING TERRORIST GAYS UNDER THE CONTROL OF RUSSIAN SATELLITES USED TO HIDE DATA ABOUT UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS THAT GIVE HOUSE PRICES AIDS!! WHEN WILL YOU WAKE UP AND THINK FOR YOURSELF!!

It's both genuinely astonishing and truly frightening the level of stupidity some people on this planet possess. 

 

Getting sick of the conspiracy theorists and tiptoeing around them, pretending they're not being thick ****s.

 

They demand proof upon proof upon proof from you, but they'll believe anything a YouTube video with professional graphics tells them.

 

Thick ****s

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Sharpie said:

Some suggestions the Donald is going to cut all relations with China and will no longer converse with Xi.  Oh Jambo Drew baby get your bone spurs working, or learn "Yes Master " in Chinese.

 

It coming. Trump's last stand. 

[Justin Z]

14 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Getting sick of the conspiracy theorists and tiptoeing around them, pretending they're not being thick ****s.

 

They demand proof upon proof upon proof from you, but they'll believe anything a YouTube video with professional graphics tells them.

 

Thick ****s

 

 

Speaking about Holocaust deniers, Deborah Lipstadt said, “There are facts, there are opinions and there are lies. What deniers were trying to do … was take the lies and dress them up as opinions.”

 

Science is not up for debate. Full stop, end of discussion. It isn't up for debate, and that isn't an attack on opinion. Indeed, all of us should be happily willing to debate opinion in order to refine our own. Drew's baseless appeals to conspiracy and his forsaking of the Enlightenment values that inform our politics are anything but.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Justin Z

[dsk1210]

33 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Getting sick of the conspiracy theorists and tiptoeing around them, pretending they're not being thick ****s.

 

They demand proof upon proof upon proof from you, but they'll believe anything a YouTube video with professional graphics tells them.

 

Thick ****s

It's pretty scary how easy people are manipulated.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

13 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

And measles and canine distemper virus are both morbilliviruses. However, that doesn't mean that the treatment for similar viruses is the same.

 

I don't know who you are but your sort of fake politicised science is not only dangerous, but is also disrespectful of the scientific knowledge that we humans have carefully amassed over thousands of years. It is almost like you and your ilk are intentionally trying to take humanity back to the era of lucky charms and magic potions sold by charlatans and quacks. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

 

 

 

You're going on the assumption those with even minimal common sense give any credence to their ravings.

 

In the Rose Garden following his answer to an Indian journalist's question; "say hello to your prime minister". 

 

 

 

[DarthVodka]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

Getting sick of the conspiracy theorists and tiptoeing around them, pretending they're not being thick ****s.

 

They demand proof upon proof upon proof from you, but they'll believe anything a YouTube video with professional graphics tells them.

 

Thick ****s

with the size of the population in the US, there is more folk like that around. I have family over there, they are well educated and think the nonsense the comes out of Trumps mouth is gospel, plus one of them (in his 60’s) believes all the you tube shite. He sent me about 3 links about how Fauci is wrong,/profiteering conspiracy links. He was going on about that Plandemic video too claiming it’s the truth.

 

there is no hope. If there is a vaccine created by a Chinese company and trump tells them all its evil, he will believe it

[Sharpie]

Just watched Trump as the flag of the the Space Force was unfurled. Also  watched his pronouncement of a vaccine by the end of the year, statement questioned by some, there is agreement by naysayers that you cannot complete the testing and results required by the FDA in that time. Most like myself despite misgivings about Trump would welcome something that would release us from this sentence of home custody. Despite all one has gone through in this life war, epidemic, personal grief, this Covid19 is the worst of the lot. All the others brought about unity and joint cooperation , whilst the solution to this one so far has been isolation, safe distancing and masks.

[The Real Maroonblood]

10 hours ago, Barack said:

Just...

 

 

 

 

The bestest ever President.

[The Real Maroonblood]

14 hours ago, Sharpie said:

Just watched Trump as the flag of the the Space Force was unfurled. Also  watched his pronouncement of a vaccine by the end of the year, statement questioned by some, there is agreement by naysayers that you cannot complete the testing and results required by the FDA in that time. Most like myself despite misgivings about Trump would welcome something that would release us from this sentence of home custody. Despite all one has gone through in this life war, epidemic, personal grief, this Covid19 is the worst of the lot. All the others brought about unity and joint cooperation , whilst the solution to this one so far has been isolation, safe distancing and masks.

The new vaccine. I quote from the clown.

”Operation Warp Speed.”

[Der Kaiser]

8 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

The new vaccine. I quote from the clown.

”Operation Warp Speed.”

 

"That means its big and its fast"

 

Someone should ask him if its true the Romulans are closer to developing a vaccine.....

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, Der Kaiser said:

 

"That means its big and its fast"

 

Someone should ask him if its true the Romulans are closer to developing a vaccine.....

He’s unbelievable.

 

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, Der Kaiser said:

 

"That means its big and its fast"

 

Someone should ask him if its true the Romulans are closer to developing a vaccine.....

 

North Romula or South Romula?

[milky_26]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

North Romula or South Romula?

Central Romula

[redjambo]

33 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

Central Romula

 

Splitters.

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, Der Kaiser said:

 

"That means its big and its fast"

 

Someone should ask him if its true the Romulans are closer to developing a vaccine.....

The Pope is on it.

[JackLadd]

Just wish somebody would give him the right hander from hell and shut his big dumb mouth. 

[Jeff]

Just think if Robert Kennedy wasn't assassinated it may have started a domino effect to stop Trump being in charge

[Justin Z]

Imagine our shock. It's almost like actual science by actual scientists works, and snake oil by delusional, narcissistic reality show hosts harms people. Who ever could have possibly had the wherewithal and intelligence to conclude that in the first place, I mean really?!

 

Hydroxychloroquine drug promoted by Trump as coronavirus 'game changer' increasingly linked to deaths

 

For two months, President Trump repeatedly pitched hydroxychloroquine as a safe and effective treatment for coronavirus, asking would-be patients “What the hell do you have to lose?”

 

Growing evidence shows that, for many, the answer is their lives.

 

Clinical trials, academic research and scientific analysis indicate that the danger of the Trump-backed drug is a significantly increased risk of death for certain patients. Evidence showing the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine in treating covid-19 has been scant. Those two developments pushed the Food and Drug Administration to warn against the use of hydroxychloroquine outside of a hospital setting last month, just weeks after it approved an emergency use authorization for the drug.

. . .

“So we have had some great response, in terms of doctors writing letters and people calling on the hydroxychloroquine,” Trump told reporters Thursday. “And this guy is fighting it. There’s no reason to fight it. There’s no reason. But more importantly than that, we’ve had tremendous response to the hydroxy.”

 

But doctors, health experts and officials from Trump’s own administration say the evidence does not back up the president’s positive assertions. Those assertions, which Trump has claimed are partly based on “a feeling,” could be costing lives, they said.

 

[milky_26]

Just now, Justin Z said:

Imagine our shock. It's almost like actual science by actual scientists works, and snake oil by delusional, narcissistic reality show hosts harms people. Who ever could have possibly had the wherewithal and intelligence to conclude that in the first place, I mean really?!

 

Hydroxychloroquine drug promoted by Trump as coronavirus 'game changer' increasingly linked to deaths

 

For two months, President Trump repeatedly pitched hydroxychloroquine as a safe and effective treatment for coronavirus, asking would-be patients “What the hell do you have to lose?”

 

Growing evidence shows that, for many, the answer is their lives.

 

Clinical trials, academic research and scientific analysis indicate that the danger of the Trump-backed drug is a significantly increased risk of death for certain patients. Evidence showing the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine in treating covid-19 has been scant. Those two developments pushed the Food and Drug Administration to warn against the use of hydroxychloroquine outside of a hospital setting last month, just weeks after it approved an emergency use authorization for the drug.

. . .

“So we have had some great response, in terms of doctors writing letters and people calling on the hydroxychloroquine,” Trump told reporters Thursday. “And this guy is fighting it. There’s no reason to fight it. There’s no reason. But more importantly than that, we’ve had tremendous response to the hydroxy.”

 

But doctors, health experts and officials from Trump’s own administration say the evidence does not back up the president’s positive assertions. Those assertions, which Trump has claimed are partly based on “a feeling,” could be costing lives, they said.

 

but but but those saying that are only 'Doctors' they are not dealing with patients day in day out. they want to use this cheap drug as Fauci has previously promoted it to treat coronaviruses

[Justin Z]

Just now, milky_26 said:

but but but those saying that are only 'Doctors' they are not dealing with patients day in day out. they want to use this cheap drug as Fauci has previously promoted it to treat coronaviruses

 

Exactly. These would also work but you're all SHEEPLE who listen to 'Dr' Fauccccccci

 

 

[Jeff]

13 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Exactly. These would also work but you're all SHEEPLE who listen to 'Dr' Fauccccccci

 

 

 

The same people who can't work out why we don't have a cure for the cold yet

[The Internet]

Proper depressing how widespread these lies are and how easily people believe them. Folk joke about 'fake news' and stuff but it's a serious problem that's just plaguing this generation. Depressing times. 

[jake]

23 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

 

Speaking about Holocaust deniers, Deborah Lipstadt said, “There are facts, there are opinions and there are lies. What deniers were trying to do … was take the lies and dress them up as opinions.”

 

Science is not up for debate. Full stop, end of discussion. It isn't up for debate, and that isn't an attack on opinion. Indeed, all of us should be happily willing to debate opinion in order to refine our own. Drew's baseless appeals to conspiracy and his forsaking of the Enlightenment values that inform our politics are anything but.

 

 

Isnt Science always up for debate?

I'm not taking the posters side at all here and his views are easily debunked.

I think the situation with healthcare in the US is now based on a lot of distrust?

The relationship between America and pharmaceutical drugs relating to Iill health the ongoing vaccination arguments are legitimate concerns with science to back them up.

Just to say all of my kids have been vaccinated but from what I can gather about the programs in America it's a more intense .

There is a fair body of evidence about this .

 

Would you agree on that.

And if you do are those points being lost in the noise.

 

And if you dont I'm probably gonnae get fried

[Justin Z]

16 minutes ago, jake said:

Isnt Science always up for debate?

I'm not taking the posters side at all here and his views are easily debunked.

I think the situation with healthcare in the US is now based on a lot of distrust?

The relationship between America and pharmaceutical drugs relating to Iill health the ongoing vaccination arguments are legitimate concerns with science to back them up.

Just to say all of my kids have been vaccinated but from what I can gather about the programs in America it's a more intense .

There is a fair body of evidence about this .

 

Would you agree on that.

And if you do are those points being lost in the noise.

 

And if you dont I'm probably gonnae get fried

 

Of course science is up for debate. But that's not what the poster is doing. The poster is questioning legitimate, peer reviewed science as if it's mere opinion, and using fictitious claims to do so. It's not mere opinion and his dressing his lies up as opinions doesn't change this. Science is our best attempt, as collective humanity, at establishing a common, factual reality we can all then have a debate about.

 

Science doesn't become science without intense scrutiny and testing of the claims it makes, and that's what differentiates it from mere opinion. That's also what differentiates it from things like politics, where there are indeed objective, quantitative markers we can base our opinions off of, but which is still significantly more subject to opinion than science is. Indeed, one of my biggest complaints about a lot of people is that their standards for political evidence are as bad as their standards for scientific evidence.

 

There is absolutely zero "legitimate" argument against vaccination--in the US, or anywhere. There is no "fair body of evidence" against it as practiced. People having legitimate concerns about pharmaceutical companies' profiteering and putting money over people's lives (see, for example, the so-called "opioid crisis") have zero bearing on this.

 

The missing step--and it's lazy--is this tendency to say "oh well it's The Guardian you can't believe anything they print" for example. That's just simply not true. Maybe you feel things The Guardian print aren't as trustworthy as other sources. Fine. Then scrutinise them more. The same goes for pharmaceutical companies and vaccines. Facebook mummys "doing their research" by watching nutty YouTube videos doesn't change this. Faked research by Andrew Wakefield doesn't change this. Reactions in 1 in 10,000 or 1 in 100,000 people doesn't change the science and methodology of vaccination.

 

The scientific system has problems. Predatory journals publishing anything that gets submitted because they're profit-making enterprises are a big problem. This in no way means that anything I listed at the end of the previous paragraph bears on the science. It does not.

[SpruceBringsteen]

1 hour ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

Proper depressing how widespread these lies are and how easily people believe them. Folk joke about 'fake news' and stuff but it's a serious problem that's just plaguing this generation. Depressing times. 

 

The actual plague is a population of barely functioning morons due to a continual lack of education funding. Still, at least we've got nuclear subs and deid kids in Yemen.