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ri Alban

Did anyone see J Hunt and his R word pish. This man thinks he should be PM and he won't call Trump out.

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ri Alban

Sorry, but what's wrong with America. Shocking!

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All roads lead to Gorgie
12 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Sorry, but what's wrong with America. Shocking!

How the same country that is celebrating the fantastic achievement of putting a man on the moon can now elect this racist man child. Unbelievable! 

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Victorian

Trump is validating,  legitimising,  empowering a latent racism to manifest itself.      His natural support see him being an openly racist thug and are venting their own similar views.     It must be ok... the president is doing it.    

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Maple Leaf
2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Correct and predictable. The key question is whether the Democrats can respond more effectively than last time. The early signs are not too encouraging. So far they have been been more effective in attacking each other, maybe inevitable in a long primary campaign with a crowded field. An example was Kamala Harris's attack on Biden which gave her a high rating in the first TV debate, but historically a rather naïve, simplistic hit. Within days Harris herself came under attack for being , when District Attorney of San Francisco, about the only DA in the Bay Area who showed no interest in pursuing allegations of paedophilia in the Catholic Church, a stance she maintained when Californian DA. Digging up supposed skeletons in each others past doesn't seem the best way of beating the incumbent whose skeletons are openly rattling daily (and indeed are all too alive). 

 

For the Dems, there's a real danger of shooting themselves in the foot.

 

Trump's popularity has been pegged at about 42.5% for the last five months. He got 46% of the popular vote in 2016, so 42.5% is not enough for him to win. But if the Dems put forward a dodgy nominee, there could be a few % of the electorate who decide that the "devil they know" is a safer bet, and give Trump the margin he needs for victory.

 

The Democratic nomination process is turning into a disturbing farce.

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Francis Albert
1 hour ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

How the same country that is celebrating the fantastic achievement of putting a man on the moon can now elect this racist man child. Unbelievable! 

The nation who put a man on the moon was a LOT more racist than the USA of today. Fortunately it didn't have Trump, Fox News, social media etc. And it had some experienced politicians, many not very admirable, but capable of putting someone like Trump in his place.

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The Mighty Thor

I just saw footage of this on tv. Quite remarkable stuff. 

Nuremberg rally-esque IMO.

 

The individuals chanting and waving their placards were quite something. Surely TF they're not representative of the wider population? If they are then America is donald ducked. 

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jake
45 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The nation who put a man on the moon was a LOT more racist than the USA of today. Fortunately it didn't have Trump, Fox News, social media etc. And it had some experienced politicians, many not very admirable, but capable of putting someone like Trump in his place.

Never the less Trumps language is brutal.

But so are Americans in general in its relation to race I've noticed.

Haven't  black Americans fared better under his presidency?

 

 

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bobsharp

Not a good day for Trump.

Epstein refused bail, apparently lots of names from New York, Florida and DC in the evidence. One unnamed British Prime Minister.Many of Epsteins friends disc ussing who will be publicly named.

New York Court releases information on the hush money case. Phone tapes show Trump had knowledge as did Holly Hicks of what was in fact illegal use of campaign funds. Some say the case is closed, others say yes it is, but only until Trump is no longer President which will be when he is indicted.

Lots of criticism levelled at Trump for failing to advise his supporters to stop chanting Send Her Back, he disavows the actions, but did not and has not done anything to stop it.

Employee of gas station shop in Illinois fired for asking some Latino girls their citizenship, telling them to go back to their Country and threatening to call ICE. Seen as direct response to Trumps own tweets.

With a sigh of relief Trump makes a statement that a US ship has shot down an Iraqi drone. Sad when a possible action leading to military confrontation is the best relief a President can get from his foibles.

 

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All roads lead to Gorgie
1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

The nation who put a man on the moon was a LOT more racist than the USA of today. Fortunately it didn't have Trump, Fox News, social media etc. And it had some experienced politicians, many not very admirable, but capable of putting someone like Trump in his place.

I have visited a few cities in the States and you still see the Stark contrast between the areas where the white population live and the rest. Things have progressed since the 60s but not nearly enough and the segregation is breeding the ignorance of the Trump supporters and their hero in the White House. 

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ri Alban

This is like watching auld Hitler footage, and Britain is on appeasement  mode again.

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bobsharp
17 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

This is like watching auld Hitler footage, and Britain is on appeasement  mode again.

 

I remember well when it was Juden Raus, and screaming crowds chanting, it was strange watching that and then years later finding it hard to find anyone who had really believed in Hitler.

 

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Jambo-Jimbo
1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I just saw footage of this on tv. Quite remarkable stuff. 

Nuremberg rally-esque IMO.

 

The individuals chanting and waving their placards were quite something. Surely TF they're not representative of the wider population? If they are then America is donald ducked. 

 

The danger is that many a normal rational person can get caught up in the excitement, in the furore, in the moment of Trumps rallies.

I hear Nuremburg & Hitler being mentioned, just remember that not all German's who took up arms during WWII were Nazi's, yet they still fought on the same side as them. 

 

America is, as I feared it would, is descending down a dark & dangerous road, and time, I fear, is running out.

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All roads lead to Gorgie

Trump says he was not happy with the chanting at the rally. Then why not stop it at the time then you cretin. Notice the smug little grin on his glaikit face as the racists in the crowd let rip. 

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Francis Albert
48 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

This is like watching auld Hitler footage, and Britain is on appeasement  mode again.

Nonsense. Britain in 1938 had some influence today it has no influence over Trump's fantasies.

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Maple Leaf
2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

The nation who put a man on the moon was a LOT more racist than the USA of today. Fortunately it didn't have Trump, Fox News, social media etc. And it had some experienced politicians, many not very admirable, but capable of putting someone like Trump in his place.

 

It sure was.

 

If anyone is in any doubt about that, watch the movie "Hidden Figures", which is about Black women working in the NASA space program in the 1960s.

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Ray Gin
26 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

Trump says he was not happy with the chanting at the rally. Then why not stop it at the time then you cretin. Notice the smug little grin on his glaikit face as the racists in the crowd let rip. 

 

Stopped talking and basked in it for a full 13 seconds before carrying on with his speech.

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Notts1874

I couldn't give a shit what the world or America was like in the 60's. That's the past. America has a racist President now and if you ain't concerned about that then you are part of the problem.

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All roads lead to Gorgie
20 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Stopped talking and basked in it for a full 13 seconds before carrying on with his speech.

That is Trump, anything to stroke his ego no matter how controversial. Horrible human being!

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bobsharp
1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

The danger is that many a normal rational person can get caught up in the excitement, in the furore, in the moment of Trumps rallies.

I hear Nuremburg & Hitler being mentioned, just remember that not all German's who took up arms during WWII were Nazi's, yet they still fought on the same side as them. 

 

America is, as I feared it would, is descending down a dark & dangerous road, and time, I fear, is running out.

 

I think the resemblance to Nazism is incidental to camps for seperated families, where conditions are poor. The lack of criticism by Trump of groups sporting swastikas and giving Seig Heil salutes, instead stating on one occasion during a riot that there were good people on both sides. The 2016 campaign feature of lock her up calls was looked at as being a boon to his campaign success. His MAGA hats are symbols of the man not the party, and his failing to control the Go Back calls are similar to the famous rallies held by the social democratic party. The similarity also continues in the fact that as you say that not all Germans were Nazis, I would suggest that they were similar to the situation today where a minority of Americans support Trump, but the system unfortunately permits a man who did not win the popular vote to win the election. Certainly the comparison is a terrible and frightening thing, but having actually lived through both and not just read about it, I see similarities to what I saw as a child. The hysterical before, and the sad and tragic after.

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Hunky Dory

It'll take generations to recover from this presidency.

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ri Alban
4 hours ago, Hunky Dory said:

It'll take generations to recover from this presidency.

There's not enough.

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Francis Albert
11 hours ago, Notts1874 said:

I couldn't give a shit what the world or America was like in the 60's. That's the past. America has a racist President now and if you ain't concerned about that then you are part of the problem.

"Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it ...". The question of why in a much more racist and intolerant society no figure resembling Trump achieved his national standing seems to me, as someone "concerned" a valid question the answers to which might help to defeat him. Barry Goldwater I suppose came closest but was thrashed in a landslide. An endless loop in which people compete to be more outraged and disgusted on a remote football forum seems a wee bit beside the point.  

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bobsharp

Of course when there were no remote football forums on computers, it would have been good if there had been somewhere  like the Mound in Edinburgh, or Hyde Park Corner on a Sunday where people could just like here with similar rhetoric and comment express their praise, disdain or disgust at what they felt was happening. I suppose just like history thats something we have forgotten but it is repeating itself only on a different type of Forum. One of the consistencies of the human race is they can always seem to find a platform from which they can state their crticism or praise. The main change is the sophistication of communications, so that now views stated are not just localised but international. A screen can be viewed and the words and actions of the speaker can be assessed and judged.

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Francis Albert

 I am old enough to remember the speakers at the foot of the Mound and Hyde Park corner. They were viewed as eccentrics whose influence did not extend beyond the few dozen people they addressed. Yet they generally did express more or less coherent views  in.proper Emglisgh sentences. So comparison with today's social media seems to me far fetched. Social media has undoubtedly changed politics. The Obama campaign was probably the first to exploit it and was widely praised for doing so. The Trump campaign followed the example but of course to the benefit of the opposite of Obama's principles. And this isn't just an American phenomenon. The rise of a buffoon like Boris and numerous non-politicians and so called populists in Europe and beyond  are part of the same trend. 

The mainstream media feeding off social media and increasingly partisan and with no distinction between reporting news and comment adds to the deterioration of any serious political discourse.

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Francis Albert
25 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

 I am old enough to remember the speakers at the foot of the Mound and Hyde Park corner. They were viewed as eccentrics whose influence did not extend beyond the few dozen people they addressed. Yet they generally did express more or less coherent views  in.proper Emglisgh sentences. So comparison with today's social media seems to me far fetched. Social media has undoubtedly changed politics. The Obama campaign was probably the first to exploit it and was widely praised for doing so. The Trump campaign followed the example but of course to the benefit of the opposite of Obama's principles. And this isn't just an American phenomenon. The rise of a buffoon like Boris and numerous non-politicians and so called populists in Europe and beyond  are part of the same trend. 

The mainstream media feeding off social media and increasingly partisan and with no distinction between reporting news and comment adds to the deterioration of any serious political discourse.

in "proper English sentences" of course.

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bobsharp
Posted (edited)

Funny how memories differ. My memory of public speakers at the area between the Art Gallery and the Gardens, circa 1950/52, was a crowded throng dwelling on every word of the inimitable John Cormack sometime Councillor, and Burgh Court Judge. He was viewed as a strong advocate for the working man and was a bit Trumpian when he made statements such as during a Royal visit referred to the family as that pair with their two picanninies causing for a few days considerable media, News and Dispatch reports. His eccentric audience was made of working men quite a lot of them dockers at Leith. There was also McEwan the religious speaker, who was subject to considerable abuse from the teenage boys who were also busy trying to click with the lassies walking around the building. There was occasionally a Communist speaker, numerous socialist speakers, and as I say a good audience. There was not a helluva lot more to do in religiously run Edinburgh of these days.

I also when stationed in London circa 1955 went the famous Speakers Corner which was to say the least large attendance, no doubt many such as myself sightseers as the Corner was in fact world famous.

Edited by bobsharp

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Maple Leaf

I've been to The Mound on a Sunday evening, and also to Speaker's Corner in Hyde Park, and great entertainment it was.  The guys on their soap boxes and the banter with the crowd was both enlightening and entertaining.  Better than TV.

 

I recall one particularly voluble trade union guy raving about the power of the workers, and shouting "We have the power to shut them up," and some wee man in the crowd shouting back, "I wish we had the power to shut you up."

 

:rofl:

 

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Francis Albert
8 hours ago, bobsharp said:

Funny how memories differ. My memory of public speakers at the area between the Art Gallery and the Gardens, circa 1950/52, was a crowded throng dwelling on every word of the inimitable John Cormack sometime Councillor, and Burgh Court Judge. He was viewed as a strong advocate for the working man and was a bit Trumpian when he made statements such as during a Royal visit referred to the family as that pair with their two picanninies causing for a few days considerable media, News and Dispatch reports. His eccentric audience was made of working men quite a lot of them dockers at Leith. There was also McEwan the religious speaker, who was subject to considerable abuse from the teenage boys who were also busy trying to click with the lassies walking around the building. There was occasionally a Communist speaker, numerous socialist speakers, and as I say a good audience. There was not a helluva lot more to do in religiously run Edinburgh of these days.

I also when stationed in London circa 1955 went the famous Speakers Corner which was to say the least large attendance, no doubt many such as myself sightseers as the Corner was in fact world famous.

Probably more a matter of differing eras - my experience of the Mound was more than a decade after yours and of Speakers Corner more than two and a half decades after yours. 

Anyway even at their peak these had nothing like the reach and pervasive influence of social media today although as your examples show they shared some aspects!

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bobsharp
2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Probably more a matter of differing eras - my experience of the Mound was more than a decade after yours and of Speakers Corner more than two and a half decades after yours. 

Anyway even at their peak these had nothing like the reach and pervasive influence of social media today although as your examples show they shared some aspects!

 

Yes in my time it was the source of different information, and one of very little choice. I don't think I made my point well about the internet and football forumsi, I just felt that people make statements on social media with more availability of information than in the past, and again possibly not answering the original point you made, but find that anonymity and no direct contact cause views to be expressed probably more forcefully than again in the past.

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maroonlegions
Image may contain: 1 person, smiling, text
 
 
 
:gok:

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Justin Z

Look at this absolute ****ing imbecile.

 

 

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alfajambo
On 18/07/2019 at 22:27, Maple Leaf said:

 

It sure was.

 

If anyone is in any doubt about that, watch the movie "Hidden Figures", which is about Black women working in the NASA space program in the 1960s.

Yeah, it was a good film, or maybe as my dad would say, picture.

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Cade

Mueller's testimony is like trying to get blood out of a stone.

Feck knows why he's being to tight and economical with his answers.

 

He has confirmed though that Donny asked staff to falsify evidence, so that's clear obstruction of justice.

And that the only reason he hasn't been arrested is because he's President.

 

:jjyay:

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Boris
25 minutes ago, Cade said:

Mueller's testimony is like trying to get blood out of a stone.

Feck knows why he's being to tight and economical with his answers.

 

He has confirmed though that Donny asked staff to falsify evidence, so that's clear obstruction of justice.

And that the only reason he hasn't been arrested is because he's President.

 

:jjyay:

 

But when out of office could face charges. 

 

:levein_interesting:

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JackLadd

Mueller is a republican at heart, agrees Trump ticks every box for obstruction of justice but won't say he should be indicted. But it is galling what's being trotted out from the report: Trump's lies, witness tampering, repeated obstruction to stop any investigation. Trump is a total criminal by any measure. 

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Cade

Only reason he's not been indicted is because arresting a sitting President may constitute a national security crisis.

 

Hilarious.

 

2020 is do or die for Donny.

even if he wins he'll still get sent down in 2024 when he's dragged out of the white house by the cops.

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bobsharp

I watched the Hearing, it seemed to me Mueller had decided he would either not answer, refer to the report or give one word answers. I also got the impression that the Repubican panel members were told during the break to give credit to Mueller for his service, but make their point in a more considering his service in what would appear a more respectful way. I also felt that mueller had also been counselled, that he be more reactive and not accept the bullying attitude being adopted by some,  and a bit more verbal in his responses. I felt he did that and was a much better witness. I noticed his hands were shaking quite a lot and was surprised he would be showing nerves, but decided that was not so it is a syndrome of getting older, and things only get worse, he is still for me a young man.

 I think he served his purpose, he did not extrapolate, confirmed that he believes Trump obstructed justice, but also believes at this time it is not his decision to make. Should Trump lose the election and the Presidential immunity things may be quite different.

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J.T.F.Robertson

The Republicans are desperately trying to denigrate a man whose boots they are not fit to lace. All this in an attempt to defend a man they know (and they surely do) is the antithesis of all a POTUS is supposed to be. If Trump represented the other side of the house their outrage would be off the scale.

 

Help ma boab.

 

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Rodger Mellie

Mueller nervous and forgetful. No knockout blow for the Dems thus far...

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Francis Albert
3 hours ago, JackLadd said:

Mueller is a republican at heart, agrees Trump ticks every box for obstruction of justice but won't say he should be indicted. But it is galling what's being trotted out from the report: Trump's lies, witness tampering, repeated obstruction to stop any investigation. Trump is a total criminal by any measure. 

The backlash against Mueller for not doing what was expected of him begins?

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Notts1874
On ‎22‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 10:17, alfajambo said:

Yeah, it was a good film, or maybe as my dad would say, picture.

Hey. Maybe you can pray for Donald when he gets locked up.

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bobsharp

His performance in the second hearing was much improved. He and Trump have a few things in common, born of wealthy parents, educated at Ivy league schools. Both had an injury Trump with bone spurs, Mueller a wounded Marine who was awarded a Purple Heart and a Bronze Star for gallantry.  Different characters different ambitions, Trump always wants to be the centere of attention Mueller wants to do his job, and this has saved Trump. Mueller content to do his investigation. Also content because of policy, but I believe just as much that he does not want to be the person who goes down in history as the man who brought down a presidency. He is again content to leave it to a body with the power to do so  namely Congress.

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JackLadd

One takeaway I had today was it could be better not to impeach Trump in the House. Mueller says he can be prosecuted when out of office, so giving these Trump surrogate GOP senators the option not to impeach in the Senate might let him off the hook regards a prosecution post Jan 2021. 

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ri Alban
7 hours ago, JackLadd said:

One takeaway I had today was it could be better not to impeach Trump in the House. Mueller says he can be prosecuted when out of office, so giving these Trump surrogate GOP senators the option not to impeach in the Senate might let him off the hook regards a prosecution post Jan 2021. 

Trump the non Eton Boris. Or is it Alexander, now.

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alfajambo

 

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Francis Albert

Perhaps they could impeach or prosecute Mueller for obstructing justice!

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The Real Maroonblood
24 minutes ago, alfajambo said:

 

Just read up on this guy

What a scumbag.

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Joey J J Jr Shabadoo
7 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Just read up on this guy

What a scumbag.

He's everything I would expect from a good Christian.

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The Real Maroonblood
13 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

He's everything I would expect from a good Christian.

This.

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