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Kalamazoo Jambo

The likelihood of impeachment proceedings has gone up dramatically in the last 24 hours. Impeachment may not be politically advantageous to Democrats but there’s a point where the rule of law and national security concerns have tooutweigh all other calculations.

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8 minutes ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

The likelihood of impeachment proceedings has gone up dramatically in the last 24 hours. Impeachment may not be politically advantageous to Democrats but there’s a point where the rule of law and national security concerns have tooutweigh all other calculations.

 

100%. He blocked the Ukraine military aid BEFORE the call that the whistleblower flagged to the Inspector General for Trump demanding Biden be investigated. Biden has ZERO case to answer btw, watched the fired Ukraine prosecutor in question rubbish the links to Clinton, Soros and a whole lot of smoke Giuliani and Trump are blowing about Hunter Biden. Trump is lying his head off. I actually see the hand of Putin in this. This is the same old collusion as 2016 finally out in the open, and impeachment is surely certain. Republicans will likely not put country first bar maybe Romney. 

Edited by JackLadd
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Seymour M Hersh
On 19/09/2019 at 04:33, Maple Leaf said:

 

I hope that Trump is smart enough to stay out of any Saudi versus Iran conflict, if it starts.

 

It's a Sunni versus Shiite hatred, and none of America's business. 

 

That's an odd way to look at it is it not? Do you take that point of view with every war? 

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9 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

That's an odd way to look at it is it not? Do you take that point of view with every war? 

 

No, just potential Sunni v Shiite wars.  America doesn't need to get involved in another Asian war they can't win.

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Seymour M Hersh
Just now, Maple Leaf said:

 

No, just potential Sunni v Shiite wars.  America doesn't need to get involved in another Asian war they can't win.

 

That's not Asia but fair enough. 

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I have always said that Trump would not finish his first term, but I do suspect this Ukraine situation may have people premature in saying the President is dead God Bless the President. I suspect the Democrats will want all the transcripts recordings and other records regarding these calls. The Bill Barr DoJ will balk at this, and it will go to the Supreme Court for a ruling, will the Republican majority Court with Kavanaugh et al rule against the President, mebbe but it will take so long he will be reelected before they do. Thursday will be a key day when the Acting DNI appears before Congress, what will he say, and more importantly what will he not.

As far as Iran it has become a convenient distraction. It however adds to Trumps failed promises, no more troops or wars in the Middle East, withdrawls the order of the day. Its strange that USA is having to defend a country who have a leader who murdered an American resident with no price paid. They are also a country with billions of dollars in US arms, yet they cannot defend themselves.

Donald Trump is a disgrace as President, he refuses to as required by law divulge his tax returns, he refuses and is abetted by offiicals to give information on his actions. He lies, and his obsessive hatred of Obama is to say the least a sign of obsessive compulsive behaviour a problem that can be treated, but Pelosi has procrastinated and the edge is lost, Impeachment is still a long way off, it will be poetic justice if his downfall is Income Tax just like Al Capone. Probably by the New York Courts.

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3 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

That's not Asia but fair enough. 

 

Bloody hell. Where do you think it is? Seymour, with pronouncements like this and the ones you've been having on the Brexit thread, you're having a mare today. So sad to see.

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Seymour M Hersh
3 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Bloody hell. Where do you think it is? Seymour, with pronouncements like this and the ones you've been having on the Brexit thread, you're having a mare today. So sad to see.

 

All my life I have never considered the middle east as Asia. I now sit corrected Many apologies. 

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Just now, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

All my life I have never considered the middle east as Asia. I now sit corrected Many apologies. 

 

It's no problem at all. I'm sorry if I was pretty dismissive with my comment, Seymour.

 

When it comes down to it, the continents aren't all geographical in nature. There should be, for example, one huge continent called EurAsia, or whatever, but we decided to split it down the middle, lumping the Middle East in with Asia rather than Europe, probably due in some part to different colours of skin if we're being entirely honest. There is also great debate as to whether North and South America should just be treated as one continent, etc. Different countries around the world treat the continents differently - for example in the UK we generally say there are 7 continents, while France often considers there to be 6 by combining the Americas, and Russia often considers Europe and Asia to be one continent.

 

Some more info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continents

 

It's strange having Lebanon, for example, in the same continent as Japan, but there you go, That's just the way the map drawers decided it was to be.

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Kalamazoo Jambo
29 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

 

 

The likelihood is that the House will eventually vote to impeach. However, the likelihood of the Senate convicting is minuscule given that something like 20 Republican senators would need to vote to convict and they’re all terrified of Trump’s base.

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9 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

That's not Asia but fair enough. 

 

As you are well aware, I despise Trump.  My reasons have been stated on this thread many times, so I'll not repeat them.

 

Having said that, I think he's well aware of the serious implications of another war and will avoid it. The ruinous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have cost the Americans trillions of dollars, many thousands of lives, and have gained the Americans nothing in return. Despite his bellicose words and the hawkish suggestions from his advisors, I think he will ultimately turn away from a military solution.

 

He'll not make the mistake of his predecessors, imo. 

 

I hope.

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20 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

As you are well aware, I despise Trump.  My reasons have been stated on this thread many times, so I'll not repeat them.

 

Having said that, I think he's well aware of the serious implications of another war and will avoid it. The ruinous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have cost the Americans trillions of dollars, many thousands of lives, and have gained the Americans nothing in return. Despite his bellicose words and the hawkish suggestions from his advisors, I think he will ultimately turn away from a military solution.

 

He'll not make the mistake of his predecessors, imo. 

 

I hope.

I agree with your comments, I would add that I sometimes suspect that he has some fear of sending troops into actual military combat. My suggestion would be that as flag covered coffins start to appear as a result of his war, some parents and others will connect this with his own well known avoidance of another war.

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Seymour M Hersh
7 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

What did you consider the Middle East as? Just 'The Middle East'? 

 

No, I was probably under the illusion it was Africa. 

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The Real Maroonblood
5 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

As you are well aware, I despise Trump.  My reasons have been stated on this thread many times, so I'll not repeat them.

 

Having said that, I think he's well aware of the serious implications of another war and will avoid it. The ruinous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have cost the Americans trillions of dollars, many thousands of lives, and have gained the Americans nothing in return. Despite his bellicose words and the hawkish suggestions from his advisors, I think he will ultimately turn away from a military solution.

 

He'll not make the mistake of his predecessors, imo. 

 

I hope.

You maybe right but a war can be convenient to detract from other issues.

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So the transcript is released, like everything else subject of discussion with claims that it dismisses any allegation of wrong doing and of course the contrary opinion that it does.

The most concerning thing I heard on the news brief was that the Whistleblower was not actually a witness to the phone conversation, but merely reported what they had heard from others, this if I recall my legal days is known as Hearsay, less credible than direct evidence.

I also slipped into old beat man days, one of the assets that one sought was to gain the ability to think like the people you are dealing with. What an asset it would be to Trump to again be accused of Collusion and then find that the main witness was not a witness a  direct witness at all, they being a person you hired and gave a job now you have proof that all these allegations are nothing more than a Witch Hunt and Presidential harrassment. I know spent too much time in Niddrie.

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1 hour ago, JackLadd said:

Trump is done. Withheld the Ukraine aid and then tried to shake them down on this call for dirt on his political rival. textbook abuse of power.  

 

The guy is Teflon.  Nothing sticks to him. He'll survive this one, just like he's survived all the others.

 

Because he has the support of the NRA and the right wing Christians, he has the political power to make or break any Republican who opposes him, therefore none will. This Ukraine thing will blow over.

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5 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

The guy is Teflon.  Nothing sticks to him. He'll survive this one, just like he's survived all the others.

 

Because he has the support of the NRA and the right wing Christians, he has the political power to make or break any Republican who opposes him, therefore none will. This Ukraine thing will blow over.

 

And just like a non-stick Teflon frying pan, it's only a matter of time before the non stick coating comes loose and things start to stick.

 

It really is just a matter of time.

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This is worse than Watergate, not even taking into account all the other crimes still under investigation (obstruction, election hush money...) but Trump 100% abused his power to get dirt on the Bidens and then covered it up with some secret file, listed in the call and the complaint. Trump's conduct was 100% criminal, likewise Barr implicated in the complaint then blocked the FBI and IG from investigating it. 

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It seems to be the same on both sides of the pond. Those in charge are getting up to no good and then trying (quite successfully) to use the power of populism and "anger towards the enemies of the people" to justify their actions as "Nothing to see here. Move along now."

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"There can be no whitewash at the White House.    No whitewash in the White House folks.    None whatsoever.   You know?   Where's the evidence?    No evidence for it folks.   None at all.   Not a shred of evidence.   Where's the proof?   No proof.    They haven't got the proof folks.     Because there's no proof.   No evidence.    No proof or evidence folks.   Not a thing".

 

Probably.

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5 hours ago, Lovecraft said:

Documents released.

 

Trump is ****ed

 

 

 

I hope so, but there have been so many false dawns with this low-life that I'm going to wait and see.

 

Trump will be the Republican nominee in 2020, and all the Republicans in Congress will be doing everything within their power to protect him and deflect from his crimes.

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If things stay as they are Trump is far from finished. I watched McGuire, he said nothing that can be used as direct evidence. I have read the Whistleblowers report, I said in an earlier post, it seems to be Hearsay, reading the actual report that is all it is. He said, she said, who are they, are they prepared to give evidence proving the President guilty as c harged, are they and the whistleblower prepared to sit in a Hearing or Trial and on Oath say what the whistleblower alleges they said.

No one wants to see Trump out more than I, but even in my minor by comparison life Hearsay was not seen as reliable. We saw in the Kavanaugh Hearings a woman who I and many others thought c redible give first hand direct evidence and being torn to shreds by Heariing members, where is Kavanaugh now, oh right in a life time position on the Supreme Court. People of the same ilk will be convening the Whistleblowers testimony which will include responses such as I cannot identify the person who told me as the y do not wish me to. Trump could live on, and because of Pelosi procrastination, and Democrats pissing people off, Trump could indeed win the election.

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A Boy Named Crow

I’ve heard plenty from the Democrats on the news crowing about how his time is up - Clinton in particular is acting as if it’s a done deal. On the other hand, everybody knows the Republicans have he numbers to kill it, should they want to. I’ve not seen or heard any direct statements from them setting out how this will go. 

 

Im not really an expert on US politics, so this might be common knowledge, but what are the Republicans, who have the power to swing this, actually saying?

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39 minutes ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

I’ve heard plenty from the Democrats on the news crowing about how his time is up - Clinton in particular is acting as if it’s a done deal. On the other hand, everybody knows the Republicans have he numbers to kill it, should they want to. I’ve not seen or heard any direct statements from them setting out how this will go. 

 

Im not really an expert on US politics, so this might be common knowledge, but what are the Republicans, who have the power to swing this, actually saying?

The whistleblower is CIA agent. Trump is done.

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A Boy Named Crow
29 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

The whistleblower is CIA agent. Trump is done.

Aye, that’s what I keep hearing, but surely the Republicans have the means (superior numbers in the Senate) and the motivation (not taking down “their guy”, avoiding a backlash from his supporters...) to just kill this. Have any of them (I think we need about 20) come out and said they are willing to get this done?

 

If not, regardless of the rights and wrongs, can he not just ride this out?

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2 minutes ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

Aye, that’s what I keep hearing, but surely the Republicans have the means (superior numbers in the Senate) and the motivation (not taking down “their guy”, avoiding a backlash from his supporters...) to just kill this. Have any of them (I think we need about 20) come out and said they are willing to get this done?

 

If not, regardless of the rights and wrongs, can he not just ride this out?

Republicans are about to take DT out. Barr is shitting himsel anaw. He's done, he's even been recorded say " You know how we used to deal with spies and traitors" 

 

Bye Trump, I hope Guantanamo is awfie comfie.

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12 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

I hope so, but there have been so many false dawns with this low-life that I'm going to wait and see.

 

Trump will be the Republican nominee in 2020, and all the Republicans in Congress will be doing everything within their power to protect him and deflect from his crimes.

 

This is what I fear. Never underestimate what self serving, awful ***** the Republicans are.

His core support will still vote for him so the GOP aren't really under any pressure except for what their moral compass dictates.

 

And that means we're relying on the Republicans' ability and willingness to do the right thing and put the law above their own interests. 

 

Let's not hold our collective breath just yet. 

 

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A Boy Named Crow
35 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

This is what I fear. Never underestimate what self serving, awful ***** the Republicans are.

His core support will still vote for him so the GOP aren't really under any pressure except for what their moral compass dictates.

 

And that means we're relying on the Republicans' ability and willingness to do the right thing and put the law above their own interests. 

 

Let's not hold our collective breath just yet. 

 

It just seems to me that there is no upside for the Republicans in doing this, other than the warm fuzzy feeling of having done the right thing. From what I’ve seen of these people, they don’t seem the type to get their kicks from doing the right thing.

 

With the amount of evidence that is building up now, it should look bad for Trump, but as a manager told me early in my career, nearly never bulled a cow!

Edited by A Boy Named Crow
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1 hour ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

It just seems to me that there is no upside for the Republicans in doing this, other than the warm fuzzy feeling of having done the right thing. From what I’ve seen of these people, they don’t seem the type to get their kicks from doing the right thing.

 

With the amount of evidence that is building up now, it should look bad for Trump, but as a manager told me early in my career, nearly never bulled a cow!

 

I agree with you. Trump sailed through the Russian connection investigation with nary a scratch and will probably sail through this one too. The only thing that will make the Republicans jump ship will not be whether Trump did wrong or not, but whether he trails consistently in the polls for the next Presidential election. He does trail to Biden in the polls but not to a sufficient degree that means that some healthy populism and negative publicity about Biden won't see a resurgence in Trump's polling figures. Trump would have to get up to much much worse to really have an effect, and even then he would still retain a level of base support within the country.

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The election is about 13 months away. Polls soon will show the Biden thing having an impact on his polls. If the situation ever goes to an Impeachment it will not likely happen before the very end of this year or into next year, they are already into serious campaign mode, and Trump has been whipping up his base for nearly three years towards this election. Its not even known who the Democrat candidate will be. Trump is a terribele man one person said he was a terrible human being, that was the present Attorney General Bill Barr prior to 2016, Lindsey Graham was critical of him then as were many Republicans, where are they now, right in front of the crowd cheerleading for him.

It and I know it doesn't mean much to many but I think Trump lives, thinks and ac ts like the criminal he is, remember Al Capone murdered, stole, defrauded bullied, lied, and flaunted his wealth and power, and all the kings horses and all the kings men couldn't bring him down until Elliot Ness got him for Income Tax offences, John Gotti the same none of his crime actions but he ended up dying in jail, and Trump is following suit, if he goes down it will be because of something he figured trivial and leave himself open.

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Because of background and experience I look at incidence from all sides. To do so in the Trump case I often watch and study the Fox news broadasts. Its like when you had to go into a dirty smelly locale and look for evidence but it is sometimes the only way to prepare.

In a panel discussion with "experts" they suggest that the letter

written by the Whistleblower is too precise, too knowledgeable, too heavy in legaleses to be written by one person. The suggestion is that it is a plot by the Democrats to take away from the crimes of Obama, Clinton and Biden. Ridiculous as it seems there is a certain panache to the suggestion, the fact is you don't have to prove shit, you just have to create doubt and an alternative theory, think of the type of mind that voted for Trump in the first place this is Manna from heaven, (if there is such a place.) Sometimes the more ridiculous the defence presentation is the mnore believable it seems to become.

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Apologies, this is a long read if you can be bothered as to why rail tracks are the size they are.

 

Bizarrely it's something I knew the answer too as it was brought up in a team meeting at work a while ago.

 

The relevance to Trump and many other elements of society is the punchline tweet at the end.

 

If I had been quick enough off the mark I'd have said the punchline to my Department Head although it wouldn't have went down too well.

 

 

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  • Kalamazoo Jambo changed the title to U.S. Politics megathread (title updated)
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