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I guess its a backhanded way of sort of excusing Trump, but I would suggest that he was told what to say by an aide, but in his stable genius mode he forgot the whole context and screwed up.

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Watt-Zeefuik
42 minutes ago, bobsharp said:

I guess its a backhanded way of sort of excusing Trump, but I would suggest that he was told what to say by an aide, but in his stable genius mode he forgot the whole context and screwed up.

Same with his NHS comment. He’d been told what to say but didn’t understand it.

 

Not being nasty, but he is a fairly old man who doesn’t look to be in great health trying to do a very hard job and was jetlagged. It happens.

 

if he weren’t putting kids in cages I’d have sympathy for him.

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I was out for some beers after work last night with some of the other engineers and I accidentally raised a point that has some merit. 

 

When this weird social experiment is over, either 2020 or 2024, will people still hound him for the allegations of criminal misconduct (on his personal/business life), or will they just move on?

 

America has a lot of faults, but they do not take kindly to corporate shenanigans when they are exposed for all to see (see Enron, Martha Stewart, Tyco, et al). 

Edited by trotter
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35 minutes ago, Ugly American said:

Same with his NHS comment. He’d been told what to say but didn’t understand it.

 

Not being nasty, but he is a fairly old man who doesn’t look to be in great health trying to do a very hard job and was jetlagged. It happens.

 

if he weren’t putting kids in cages I’d have sympathy for him.

 

Christ he is just a bairn, at least from where I am looking.:527:

Edited by bobsharp
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Francis Albert
5 hours ago, trotter said:

I was out for some beers after work last night with some of the other engineers and I accidentally raised a point that has some merit. 

 

When this weird social experiment is over, either 2020 or 2024, will people still hound him for the allegations of criminal misconduct (on his personal/business life), or will they just move on?

 

America has a lot of faults, but they do not take kindly to corporate shenanigans when they are exposed for all to see (see Enron, Martha Stewart, Tyco, et al). 

A rather rose tinted view of American corporate history. Those guilty of "shenanigans" have down the years done pretty well, from the railroad and steel barons who built fortunes through ruthless cartels and monopolies and corruption, to Ford and others employing a private army to break strikes with bullets, and so on and so on. Trump's shenanigans won him the big prize of the Presidency. 

There have been a few exceptions including those you mention, who were too stupid or too greedy or too self-obsessed to get away with it. 

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5 hours ago, trotter said:

I was out for some beers after work last night with some of the other engineers and I accidentally raised a point that has some merit. 

 

When this weird social experiment is over, either 2020 or 2024, will people still hound him for the allegations of criminal misconduct (on his personal/business life), or will they just move on?

 

America has a lot of faults, but they do not take kindly to corporate shenanigans when they are exposed for all to see (see Enron, Martha Stewart, Tyco, et al). 

 

:cornette_dog:

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Watt-Zeefuik

Trump cancelling Mexico tariffs, claiming victory because Mexico is going to send some National Guard folks to the Guatemalan border.

 

Except that Mexico agreed to do this months before Trump threatened the tariffs.

 

Cheap metal chair, folded.

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Maple Leaf
11 hours ago, Ugly American said:

Trump cancelling Mexico tariffs, claiming victory because Mexico is going to send some National Guard folks to the Guatemalan border.

 

Except that Mexico agreed to do this months before Trump threatened the tariffs.

 

Cheap metal chair, folded.

 

The only question to be asked at the end of this fiasco: is he actually clueless about the details, or is he deliberately misleading the people? Whatever the answer, is reflects poorly on him.

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35 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

The only question to be asked at the end of this fiasco: is he actually clueless about the details, or is he deliberately misleading the people? Whatever the answer, is reflects poorly on him.

 

I would say the latter, he figured he would play strong threatening tariffs, knowing full well that was a no go, he then comes back from what some claim was a highly succesful trip to D Day ceremonies, and immediately claims that his tough talk pushed Mexico into making a decision. There is no shortage of evidence that he will prevaricate to make himself look good. Unfortunately that positive look is only in his own mind.

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The Real Maroonblood
1 hour ago, Maple Leaf said:

The Stock Market did better under Obama than it has done under Trump.

 

https%3A%2F%2Fs3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com

Fake news. ?

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On 09/06/2019 at 15:52, Maple Leaf said:

 

The only question to be asked at the end of this fiasco: is he actually clueless about the details, or is he deliberately misleading the people? Whatever the answer, is reflects poorly on him.

Can't  be and sorry if mentioned before,  but in Trump's world, the J. in his name stands for 'Jenius'

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Can't  be and sorry if mentioned before,  but in Trump's world, the J. in his name stands for 'Jenius'

 

 

 

 

:biggrin:

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Just watched a report on the news that Kim's half brother was a CIA assset. The Trumpinator was interviewed and he says that would not happen under his auspices, he would not have used him to get information. It was commented that  he would not allow the CIA to do this so why have a CIA.  He also contradicted Bolton, his appointment, who concurs with many that Kim is not adhering to the agreements previously made. Then it shows a todays other interview with Trump where he comments about another beautiful letter he got from Kim, he says it is a work of art. He then in his way says you would all love to see it but you won't. Why not?.

This man who has dropped sanctions, cut back on military exercises is a complete buffoon, playing with toys that are well above his intellectual ability to realise there danger.

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3 minutes ago, bobsharp said:

Just watched a report on the news that Kim's half brother was a CIA assset. The Trumpinator was interviewed and he says that would not happen under his auspices, he would not have used him to get information. It was commented that  he would not allow the CIA to do this so why have a CIA.  He also contradicted Bolton, his appointment, who concurs with many that Kim is not adhering to the agreements previously made. Then it shows today's other interview with Trump where he comments about another beautiful letter he got from Kim, he says it is a work of art. He then in his way says you would all love to see it but you won't. Why not?.

This man who has dropped sanctions, cut back on military exercises is a complete buffoon, playing with toys that are well above his intellectual ability to realise there danger.

 

This is the same Kim that he once threatened with destruction. If you keep flattering the dimwit he turns all mooshy and squishy, like a wee obese puppy dog.

 

It's beyond troubling that such a shallow man has attained the presidency of the world's most powerful country. 

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7 hours ago, ri Alban said:

How do think Mayor Pete will do in his 2020 run. He's only 37.

There was quite a lot of coverage about the Democrats contenders yesterday. It seems to me that Biden is still the favorite, some of the pundits say we will not really know how its going to go until they start debating face to face and a bit of rancor develops. I personally suspect that Biden will be the candidate, and have an ill conceived feeling if it is not him they are not quite ready for a gay man, or even another black man so soon and may just stagger  to a woman candidate. I think when the debates get bloody there are some pretty tough women there.

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6 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Not well, but watching him, a Gay Christian, make bigoted evangelical Christians squirm while they continue to support Donald Trump, is a thing of beauty.

 

2 hours ago, bobsharp said:

There was quite a lot of coverage about the Democrats contenders yesterday. It seems to me that Biden is still the favorite, some of the pundits say we will not really know how its going to go until they start debating face to face and a bit of rancor develops. I personally suspect that Biden will be the candidate, and have an ill conceived feeling if it is not him they are not quite ready for a gay man, or even another black man so soon and may just stagger  to a woman candidate. I think when the debates get bloody there are some pretty tough women there.

Cheers Lads ? I hope he does well.

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1 hour ago, jake said:

Doubt it.

Trump second term nap

 

13 points behind Biden. Only second term Trump is getting is in a 6 by 8 cell. 

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Francis Albert
13 hours ago, bobsharp said:

There was quite a lot of coverage about the Democrats contenders yesterday. It seems to me that Biden is still the favorite, some of the pundits say we will not really know how its going to go until they start debating face to face and a bit of rancor develops. I personally suspect that Biden will be the candidate, and have an ill conceived feeling if it is not him they are not quite ready for a gay man, or even another black man so soon and may just stagger  to a woman candidate. I think when the debates get bloody there are some pretty tough women there.

It seems Biden is the clear front runner at present with Warren and Bernie close in 2nd and 3rd, the rest nowhere as yet.

I hope that it doesn't become again all about identity politics, which would suit Trump. I don't give a toss whether a candidate is old, young, white or "of colour", a woman or a man, or what if any religion he or she adheres to, or what his or her sexual preferences are. It would be good to hear candidates talk about policies. 

As an example the media in LA is currently awash with the city's burgeoning homeless problem, resulting public  squalor (downtown and in many of the tourist sights like Venice Beach) , the return of diseases long thought eradicated, rats in City Hall etc. The LA Times noted that none of the potential candidates have yet mentioned the issue of growing homelessness and destitution, which is by no means confined to LA.

Edited by Francis Albert
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1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

It seems Biden is the clear front runner at present with Warren and Bernie close in 2nd and 3rd, the rest nowhere as yet.

I hope that it doesn't become again all about identity politics, which would suit Trump. I don't give a toss whether a candidate is old, young, white or "of colour", a woman or a man, or what if any religion he or she adheres to, or what his or her sexual preferences are. It would be good to hear candidates talk about policies. 

As an example the media in LA is currently awash with the city's burgeoning homeless problem, resulting public  squalor (downtown and in many of the tourist sights like Venice Beach) , the return of diseases long thought eradicated, rats in City Hall etc. The LA Times noted that none of the potential candidates have yet mentioned the issue of growing homelessness and destitution, which is by no means confined to LA.

Personally, I'm a bit sick of the old brigade. A younger generation needs to step up to the plate, right across the world.

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Francis Albert
2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Personally, I'm a bit sick of the old brigade. A younger generation needs to step up to the plate, right across the world.

Of course, and inevitably they will. But they need to do more than be young. Like have some ideas and policies that could conceivably get enough support for them to be elected and implement them. 

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6 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Of course, and inevitably they will. But they need to do more than be young. Like have some ideas and policies that could conceivably get enough support for them to be elected and implement them. 

 

There's a novel idea. I hope that I live long enough to see something like that.

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I'm beginning to think he does this sort of shite on purpose. How many things can you get wrong in one tweet?

 

 

C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_D88eHwnXkAAxfi4.jpg

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The Real Maroonblood
Just now, Notts1874 said:

I'm beginning to think he does this sort of shite on purpose. How many things can you get wrong in one tweet?

 

 

C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_D88eHwnXkAAxfi4.jpg

:rofl:

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Somebody will be along to say it's only a tweet what does it matter? Its the way he chooses to communicate with the rest of the world and he can't even get that right.

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Kalamazoo Jambo
1 minute ago, Notts1874 said:

Somebody will be along to say it's only a tweet what does it matter? Its the way he chooses to communicate with the rest of the world and he can't even get that right.

 

You clearly don’t care about marine mammal monarchies like he does.

 

He deleted the tweet, BTW ?

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1 minute ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

 

You clearly don’t care about marine mammal monarchies like he does.

 

He deleted the tweet, BTW ?

I was more concerned about Queen of England (UK)??. Which he hasn't been deleted. I'm not being consigned to a bracket ffs??

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What must be worrying for the people in the White House are his obviously unscripted, off the cuff comments, that are increasiongly becoming definitely from a disturbed mind.

At one stage he was asked about his statement regarding his comments on Kims brother. He rambled on something about that is not what I meant, I meant what I said, you just interpreted it wrong. I mean really this is the supposedly most powerful man in the world, and he cannot explain himself and lives in a cocoon world that is a creation of his failing mind.

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The Real Maroonblood
11 minutes ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

 

You clearly don’t care about marine mammal monarchies like he does.

 

He deleted the tweet, BTW ?

Pity he can’t delete himself.

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22 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

I'm beginning to think he does this sort of shite on purpose. How many things can you get wrong in one tweet?

 

 

C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_D88eHwnXkAAxfi4.jpg

 

 

Prince of Whales?  That is a feckin beauty. ?

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Linsey Graham speaking a few minutes ago, yes the President made a mistake in what he said but remember the Democrats bought information from Steele in 2016, so then he went on about FISA warrants etc, anything rather than saying the President was absolutely wrong, what he is suggesting is breaking the law. Instead its the old strategy deflect, protect, and give up any moral value to maintain a majority at least in the Senate.

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22 minutes ago, bobsharp said:

Linsey Graham speaking a few minutes ago, yes the President made a mistake in what he said but remember the Democrats bought information from Steele in 2016, so then he went on about FISA warrants etc, anything rather than saying the President was absolutely wrong, what he is suggesting is breaking the law. Instead its the old strategy deflect, protect, and give up any moral value to maintain a majority at least in the Senate.

 

Graham is a Trump sock! Only problem with But Hillary is the file's contents were sent to the FBI and it wasn't authored by a foreign govt's intelligence service. Btw, Trump swore an oath to uphold the law and constitution as POTUS. He just desecrated that oath.

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The Real Maroonblood
2 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

Graham is a Trump sock! Only problem with But Hillary is the file's contents were sent to the FBI and it wasn't authored by a foreign govt's intelligence service. Btw, Trump swore an oath to uphold the law and constitution as POTUS. He just desecrated that oath.

He bestest ever president.

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Joey J J Jr Shabadoo
2 hours ago, Notts1874 said:

I'm beginning to think he does this sort of shite on purpose. How many things can you get wrong in one tweet?

 

 

C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_D88eHwnXkAAxfi4.jpg

He has the IQ of a tadpole. 

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Watt-Zeefuik
On 12/06/2019 at 01:49, ri Alban said:

How do think Mayor Pete will do in his 2020 run. He's only 37.

 

Almost no chance of the nomination. Who knows, something could happen, but he's doing a spectacular job of raising his profile.

 

I hope he raises buckets of money then turns and runs for governor of Indiana. It's a tall task to win in a pretty red state, but if Trump really implodes next year (a possibility but far from certain) he could do it. That would set him up nicely for a run in 2028 or something. He'd still be in his mid-40s and have proof he can flip a red state.

 

Meanwhile he's doing great things for increasing the visibility of progressive mainline Protestant Christianity, which of course does my heart good. ;)

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Watt-Zeefuik
1 hour ago, JackLadd said:

 

Graham is a Trump sock! Only problem with But Hillary is the file's contents were sent to the FBI and it wasn't authored by a foreign govt's intelligence service. Btw, Trump swore an oath to uphold the law and constitution as POTUS. He just desecrated that oath.

 

I don't like outing people without their consent but Graham has pushed it far enough that it needs to be said.

 

Graham is gay, and everyone who's anyone in SC knows it, but everyone pretends they don't. He's cynical enough that he's willing to go along with Trump if he gets a few of his priorities, plus I'm sure he's terrified that Trump will go after him like a schoolyard bully if he went against him. Which of course Trump would, because he's a schoolyard bully.

 

The sad thing is I think he could come out and even red South Carolina would actually be okay with it, but Graham himself is too scared (and who can blame him given his age and the world he grew up in), so he plays Trump's toady and gets to keep his cushy Senate seat.

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9 minutes ago, Ugly American said:

 

Almost no chance of the nomination. Who knows, something could happen, but he's doing a spectacular job of raising his profile.

 

I hope he raises buckets of money then turns and runs for governor of Indiana. It's a tall task to win in a pretty red state, but if Trump really implodes next year (a possibility but far from certain) he could do it. That would set him up nicely for a run in 2028 or something. He'd still be in his mid-40s and have proof he can flip a red state.

 

Meanwhile he's doing great things for increasing the visibility of progressive mainline Protestant Christianity, which of course does my heart good. ;)

?

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Watt-Zeefuik

Okay, long post about the Dem side (maybe we should start a new thread that's not about Trump?):

 

There's still a lot of time for someone in the lower tiers to break from the pack, but right now there's a "top 5":

 

Biden

Warren

Sanders

Buttigieg

Harris

 

Mayor Pete had a boomlet and it's not certain if he can sustain it. He completely pushed O'Rourke out of the spotlight (for good reason -- O'Rourke needs to just freakin' drop out and run for Senate again rather than trying to catch lightning in a bottle twice).

 

My guess is there's room for 1-2 more in the "serious contender" set. I've been predicting Washington State Governor Jay Inslee will have a moment at some point, but it hasn't come yet. Montana Gov. Steve Bullock has the "red state governor" thing going for him and wouldn't be a terrible pick, but I don't think there's anyone super-excited for him. New Jersey Corey Booker always seems to be just-about-ready to be a big thing, but he always seems to be trying to hard to be the next Obama to his own detriment.

 

On Biden. Ugh. Lord I wish he hadn't decided to run. There's a dozen reasons he's never gotten close to the nomination despite trying for decades. Right now he's got the Obama nostalgia thing going for him, but he's starting to remind people that he's gaffe-prone, disorganized, and has a really problematic record that goes back to the 70s and includes opposition to Roe v. Wade, helping to write the very problematic 90s Crime bill, support for the Iraq War, and so forth. He's going to get taken down a peg, which I hate to see since he's not a bad guy, but I really don't want to put our 2020 hopes on him. He's way to erratic. He's also 76, and would be 82 when he came up for re-election in 2024.

 

Sanders is doing his thing. I'm grateful to him for waking up the long-slumbering left wing of the party, but I also think he's got all kinds of problems in terms of getting to be President. He'd be a good Senate Majority Leader if he'd actually deign to join the Democratic Party, but that's not happening.

 

My money right now is on Warren. She's going for the long game and building up a lot of support in critical states through lots of visits and really good policy proposals that are thorough, ambitious, and which she can articulate clearly and emphatically. She has Hilary's brains but not her public reticence or policy timidity, and doesn't mind getting in someone's face, which she'll need to do to beat Trump. She has Harvard bona fides but her affect is still Oklahoma City, which will go over well in Iowa. And her campaign, by all appearances, remains one of the best organized and well-run in the whole field.

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I am almost totally bewildered, in my effort to see alternative sides to a discussion I often watch Fox news. I just got there to hear a Republican congressman comment on the Trump comments about information from foreign governments. His point of argument was that if a media reporter as has happened receives information from a source about Trumps income tax thats a crime. The information has been wrongfully obtained and Trump has given no permission for it to be published. This in comparison to Trumps statement that it is alright to accept dirt on an opponent from an adversarial foreign government as long as it is just dirt on the opponent. This would be what he describes as opp research. Trump is low in my character assessment, but these supposedly intelligent men talking absolute rubbish to defend him is atrocious.

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SpruceBringsteen

I love it over here, but imagine voting for a guy that would - without exaggeration - struggle to read the Very Hungry Caterpillar. :lol:

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GOP in full But Hillary mode to deflect Trump's treason. The Steele file was legit opposition research. Steele handed it over to the FBI and it wasn't the sole basis for the fisa warrant on Trump acolyte Carter Page (a guy Trump claimed he never knew). It never impacted the election at all like Trump's timed Russian help on Wiki leaks. 

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9 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

GOP in full But Hillary mode to deflect Trump's treason. The Steele file was legit opposition research. Steele handed it over to the FBI and it wasn't the sole basis for the fisa warrant on Trump acolyte Carter Page (a guy Trump claimed he never knew). It never impacted the election at all like Trump's timed Russian help on Wiki leaks. 

Can you hear yourself?

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