U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[Maple Leaf]

3 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Can someone explain wtf the USA are getting their oar about Taiwan ? Whats it to do with them ?

 

Taiwan, formerly Formosa, is an American ally, and has been since the breakaway from communist China in the 1940s.

 

But Pelosi's visit is certainly intended to be provocative.  It might be an attempt to improve Biden's poor ratings; flipping the bird at the Chinese is always popular with the American public.  The Chinese are responsible for COVID, don'tcha know?

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Taiwan, formerly Formosa, is an American ally, and has been since the breakaway from communist China in the 1940s.

 

But Pelosi's visit is certainly intended to be provocative.  It might be an attempt to improve Biden's poor ratings; flipping the bird at the Chinese is always popular with the American public.  The Chinese are responsible for COVID, don'tcha know?

Thats exactly what i was thinking.  The Americans really are trouble making c**** .  Thats all it is. 

[Tommy Brown]

8 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Can someone explain wtf the USA are getting their oar about Taiwan ? Whats it to do with them ?

You couldn't care if Taiwan was invaded by China?

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

You couldn't care if Taiwan was invaded by China?

 

It’s none of my business . What’s it got to do with me ? Or indeed the Uk ? 

[Unknown user]

Just for the record, Formosa had the best flag

 

[Cade]

Three months to the mid-terms.

That's why they're arming Ukraine and noising up the Chinese.

 

Taiwan/Chinese Taipei/Formosa/whatever is a strange case.

After the Dutch and Spanish took turns colonising it in the early 1600s, it was part of China from 1683 to 1895, then an independent nation for about 4 months then Japan took over then after the end of WW2 it was China again then after the Chinese civil war ended in 1949 the losing side all moved there and to this day continue to claim to be the actual ruling government of all of China.

 

Nobody can agree whether the island should reunify with China and if so, how and who would run it, the Chinese government directly or an autonomous unit within Chinese law or if it should be independent and if so, whether it would be a new nation and stop trying to claim all of China or something in between all of those options.

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Cade

[Cade]

The UN formally ejected the Republic of China (the guys in Taiwan) from the UN and installed the People's Republic of China (the guys on the mainland) as the legal Chinese government in 1971.

And as the Chinese civil war never legally ended, Taiwan was never legally split off from China.

So the PRC still claims sovereignty over the island, as it legally is still part of China.

But on the other hand, Taiwan was never legally handed back to China after WW2 either.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_2758

 

For their part, the guys in Taiwan still claim sovereignty over all of the Chinese mainland.

Because the civil war never legally ended.

 

Most sensible nations are staying well out of it, refusing to take sides.

Almost all opinions boil down to "they'll have to sort it out themselves, hopefully peacefully"

 

It's a mess.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan#Question_of_sovereignty_over_Taiwan

Edited August 2, 2022 by Cade

[JFK-1]

15 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Can someone explain wtf the USA are getting their oar about Taiwan ? Whats it to do with them ?

 

They're an ally who have had US security guarantees for around 70 years. What I want explained is why anyone would think they can toss around threats because a dignitary from one nation visits a friend and ally.

Edited August 3, 2022 by JFK-1

[A Boy Named Crow]

20 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

Looking more and more as if there is no way out of this for Trump, the evidence is already overwhelming and I would bet it will become even more compelling. People are going to jail, very likely Mike Stone and this time there will be no orange co-conspirator with the power to pardon him.

 

I was thinking Trump will be indicted and convicted but sadly i'm thinking it's going to be impractical to put him in prison. We know he's a total idiot, and this total idiot knows shit. And I seriously wouldn't put it past him to abscond to Russia if he thought he were jail bound. Putin would be so ecstatic he would put Trump in one of his palaces.

 

But all that aside even if Trump couldn't flee and he were convicted it is just impractical to put the clown in prison. For obvious reasons just one of them being he has a secret service protection team for life. Are they going to be in the slammer with him?

 

But he simply can't go free after this. I was thinking some sort of house arrest. Preferably on some little mid Atlantic island like they did with Napoleon because he too had to be taken out of circulation. He will whine about golf courses, they should give him a pitch and putt to play with. Just to torment him further.

24 cracked it with Charles Logan 

Edited August 3, 2022 by A Boy Named Crow

[Watt-Zeefuik]

20 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

Looking more and more as if there is no way out of this for Trump, the evidence is already overwhelming and I would bet it will become even more compelling. People are going to jail, very likely Mike Stone and this time there will be no orange co-conspirator with the power to pardon him.

 

I was thinking Trump will be indicted and convicted but sadly i'm thinking it's going to be impractical to put him in prison. We know he's a total idiot, and this total idiot knows shit. And I seriously wouldn't put it past him to abscond to Russia if he thought he were jail bound. Putin would be so ecstatic he would put Trump in one of his palaces.

 

But all that aside even if Trump couldn't flee and he were convicted it is just impractical to put the clown in prison. For obvious reasons just one of them being he has a secret service protection team for life. Are they going to be in the slammer with him?

 

But he simply can't go free after this. I was thinking some sort of house arrest. Preferably on some little mid Atlantic island like they did with Napoleon because he too had to be taken out of circulation. He will whine about golf courses, they should give him a pitch and putt to play with. Just to torment him further.

 

We're a long way from Trump being indicted, notably because there's a lot of great big public steps that would have to happen before we got there. With that caveat said, this is the first really great big public step in that direction we've seen:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ex-white-house-counsel-subpoenaed-by-federal-grand-jury-investigating-jan-6-attack/ar-AA10fmjo

 

While I'd prefer him in prison, I would be perfectly happy with him eating his well-done steaks with ketchup next to Vlad on Putin's private beach. Let his legacy be the guy who blustered hard then ran for the hills when it got tight.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Also, in the election news tonight, this is a really big deal. Kansas is an extremely GOP-dominated state, which voted for Trump by 15 points in 2020. It just rejected an amendment to the state constitution that would have allowed the legislature to ban abortion by 25 points.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/08/02/kansas-abortion-referendum/

 

A lot of us were pessimistic but still hopeful the amendment wouldn't pass. I didn't see anyone predict it getting swamped by nearly a 2-1 margin.

[JFK-1]

2 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

 

We're a long way from Trump being indicted, notably because there's a lot of great big public steps that would have to happen before we got there.

 

For days now the legal analysts have been saying they're certain he will be indicted, on the evidence, if that's all that's being taken into consideration. Apparently Trumps have already lawyers have begun forming a defence presuming an indictment is on the way.

 

Seems an initial defence was formed by Trump, the defence being he really believed all the lies. In fact he still says he does, doesn't he.

 

But he's an idiot, the lawyers aren't. Even if that were true, which the committee showed beyond doubt is not true. But even if it were, it's still not a defence for trying to get a VP murdered on top of everything else.

 

Be fascinating to see what they do come up with because as I said, I see no possible defence. Unless they plead insanity. And if I were on the jury I would believe that. I believe right now he's a simple minded raving lunatic.

[JFK-1]

Regarding the Taiwan issue, one thing I definitely find troubling is that Chinese leader, who declared himself dictator for life. There's a  bit of the Putin about him when it comes to Taiwan, a legacy hunter.

 

It's thought he wants to take Taiwan in his lifetime, which would catapult him to legendary status, the leader who unified the motherland.

[A Boy Named Crow]

4 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

For days now the legal analysts have been saying they're certain he will be indicted, on the evidence, if that's all that's being taken into consideration. Apparently Trumps have already lawyers have begun forming a defence presuming an indictment is on the way.

 

Seems an initial defence was formed by Trump, the defence being he really believed all the lies. In fact he still says he does, doesn't he.

 

But he's an idiot, the lawyers aren't. Even if that were true, which the committee showed beyond doubt is not true. But even if it were, it's still not a defence for trying to get a VP murdered on top of everything else.

 

Be fascinating to see what they do come up with because as I said, I see no possible defence. Unless they plead insanity. And if I were on the jury I would believe that. I believe right now he's a simple minded raving lunatic.

How does it work over there, can you keep appealing all the way up to the supreme court? Given he's stacked that in his favour, could he be indicted,  convicted then appeal his way through to a panel of his mates...?

[Watt-Zeefuik]

7 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

For days now the legal analysts have been saying they're certain he will be indicted, on the evidence, if that's all that's being taken into consideration. Apparently Trumps have already lawyers have begun forming a defence presuming an indictment is on the way.

 

Seems an initial defence was formed by Trump, the defence being he really believed all the lies. In fact he still says he does, doesn't he.

 

But he's an idiot, the lawyers aren't. Even if that were true, which the committee showed beyond doubt is not true. But even if it were, it's still not a defence for trying to get a VP murdered on top of everything else.

 

Be fascinating to see what they do come up with because as I said, I see no possible defence. Unless they plead insanity. And if I were on the jury I would believe that. I believe right now he's a simple minded raving lunatic.

 

I may not be reading the same thing you're reading. It's certain he *should* be indicted, as his crimes are evident. To me it's not yet clear that he *will* be indicted, which is a decision that will involve political actors with political motivations.  Famously, Nixon was pardoned instead of being indicted, and while I don't see that happening with Trump, the fact remains that there's zero precedent here either way.

[RobboM]

1 hour ago, Led Tasso said:

 

I may not be reading the same thing you're reading. It's certain he *should* be indicted, as his crimes are evident. To me it's not yet clear that he *will* be indicted, which is a decision that will involve political actors with political motivations.  Famously, Nixon was pardoned instead of being indicted, and while I don't see that happening with Trump, the fact remains that there's zero precedent here either way.

It was Nixon's former Vice President who pardoned Nixon and there was some chat that Nixon had made his resignation conditional on the pardon. Ford was always of the opinion that a pardon could only be granted for someone who was guilty so the pardon was, in a sense, a guilty verdict without a prison sentence.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Just now, RobboM said:

It was Nixon's former Vice President who pardoned Nixon and there was some chat that Nixon had made his resignation conditional on the pardon. Ford was always of the opinion that a pardon could only be granted for someone who was guilty so the pardon was, in a sense, a guilty verdict without a prison sentence.

 

Right, my point is just that no one knows how you go about indicting a former President for crimes committed in office. It's legal terra nova.

[RobboM]

2 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Right, my point is just that no one knows how you go about indicting a former President for crimes committed in office. It's legal terra nova.

Ah gotcha. Could start by just beating a confession out of him? Worth a shot?

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Just now, RobboM said:

Ah gotcha. Could start by just beating a confession out of him? Worth a shot?

 

I'm aghast by the use of torture by the US in Iraq and Afghanistan, particularly given that we know that the kind of physical interrogation shown in 24 gets you crap intelligence, but in this instance I volunteer to give it a shot.

[JFK-1]

On 03/08/2022 at 05:14, A Boy Named Crow said:

How does it work over there, can you keep appealing all the way up to the supreme court? Given he's stacked that in his favour, could he be indicted,  convicted then appeal his way through to a panel of his mates...?

 

I would imagine he could appeal it all the way to the top. But he's now so evidently guilty even Murdoch and Fox are becoming embarrassed. And that's just from a committee investigation. If he goes to court it will be broken down in even more explicit detail.

 

The SP all voted in favour of releasing documents to the committee Clarence Thomas and his wife didn't want released. No wait not all of them, all but one. Guess who.

Edited August 5, 2022 by JFK-1

[A Boy Named Crow]

6 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I would imagine he could appeal it all the way to the top. But he's now so evidently guilty even Murdoch and Fox are becoming embarrassed. And that's just from a committee investigation. If he goes to court it will be broken down in even more explicit detail.

 

The SP all voted in favour of releasing documents to the committee Clarence Thomas and his wife didn't want released. No wait not all of them, all but one. Guess who.

I'll send out for more popcorn then...

[Watt-Zeefuik]

22 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I would imagine he could appeal it all the way to the top. But he's now so evidently guilty even Murdoch and Fox are becoming embarrassed. And that's just from a committee investigation. If he goes to court it will be broken down in even more explicit detail.

 

The SP all voted in favour of releasing documents to the committee Clarence Thomas and his wife didn't want released. No wait not all of them, all but one. Guess who.

 

Also, while Trump thinks of his three appointees as his personal agents on the court, they are far more wedded to the conservative legal movement than they are to him. As the Dobbs ruling showed, they're more than happy to junk good legal practice if it gets them the results they want, but in terms of bailing his rancid ass out of jail, they have no motivation whatsoever to do so unless they somehow think that he's needed to get conservatives back in power. Aside from Thomas, of course, who's neck deep in the Trumpian mire.

[Maple Leaf]

16 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Also, while Trump thinks of his three appointees as his personal agents on the court, they are far more wedded to the conservative legal movement than they are to him. As the Dobbs ruling showed, they're more than happy to junk good legal practice if it gets them the results they want, but in terms of bailing his rancid ass out of jail, they have no motivation whatsoever to do so unless they somehow think that he's needed to get conservatives back in power. Aside from Thomas, of course, who's neck deep in the Trumpian mire.

When the history is written of this sordid period in American politics, McConnell and Thomas will be highlighted for their blatant partisan behaviour.  McConnell is expected to be biased, but Thomas' is a disgrace for a person who is supposed to be impartial. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Pending what is almost certainly a formality in the House, the US will finally, after God knows how many false starts, pass major climate legislation. It's not enough and it's loaded down with shite but it's actually a meaningful start that will substantially reduce our emissions.

[Mysterion]

2 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

Pending what is almost certainly a formality in the House, the US will finally, after God knows how many false starts, pass major climate legislation. It's not enough and it's loaded down with shite but it's actually a meaningful start that will substantially reduce our emissions.

Now approved in the Senate with Kamala Harris casting her vote to take it to 51 votes in favour!

 

Biden is slowly building momentum, with the mid terms approaching he needs a lot of luck. Roe vs Wade is becoming a key issue to swing votes towards Dem candidates too.

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 minute ago, Mysterion said:

Now approved in the Senate with Kamala Harris casting her vote to take it to 51 votes in favour!

 

Biden is slowly building momentum, with the mid terms approaching he needs a lot of luck. Roe vs Wade is becoming a key issue to swing votes towards Dem candidates too.

 

 

There's definitely light on the horizon, but it also requires Democratic Senators in particular reaching around with both hands and actually finding their own arses. You'd think they'd be up to it, but these are Democratic Senators we're talking about, and too of them are spineless weathervanes at heart . . .

 

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/roe-and-reform-matters-even-more-for-the-house-than-the-senate

[Watt-Zeefuik]

he FBI has raided Mar a Lago. From early reports, it sounds like it's about the missing documents for the national archives, which is a much smaller crime than the Jan 6 stuff, but still a pretty big deal with the Presidential Records Act.

 

What would be best in life is if they got the warrant based on evidence on Alex Jones' phone.

 

Who knows what will come of it. But we can all dance little jigs while we wait to find out.

[JFK-1]

4 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

he FBI has raided Mar a Lago. From early reports, it sounds like it's about the missing documents for the national archives, which is a much smaller crime than the Jan 6 stuff, but still a pretty big deal with the Presidential Records Act.

 

What would be best in life is if they got the warrant based on evidence on Alex Jones' phone.

 

Who knows what will come of it. But we can all dance little jigs while we wait to find out.

 

Some think his lawyers should be telling him he's looking at jail time. So whatever it is must be pretty big. And I was thinking there is absolutely no way they would have done this if they didn't already know beyond a shadow of a doubt they could nail him.

 

Trump's Lawyer Should Advise Him He's 'Looking At Jail Time' Says Katyal

 

Former acting U.S. Solicitor General Neal Katyal joins MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell and says, after the FBI's search of Trump's Florida home, he believes Donald Trump is the target of a Justice Dept. investigation.

 

 

[JFK-1]

It's being reported that Trump removed documents from the WH which were so highly classified they can't even be described. Only a very small number of people would ever see these documents. At least for a very long time. And this feckin moron took them.

 

And I suspect possibly copied them. And who knows who saw these documents while this halfwit had them. Potentially in Putin's safe now.

 

 

[ri Alban]

His son in law has done him for deal  .

[Jambo-Jimbo]

49 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

It's being reported that Trump removed documents from the WH which were so highly classified they can't even be described. Only a very small number of people would ever see these documents. At least for a very long time. And this feckin moron took them.

 

And I suspect possibly copied them. And who knows who saw these documents while this halfwit had them. Potentially in Putin's safe now.

 

 

 

I heard that Trump had returned some documents, but not the most classified and even the ones that he had returned, some showed clear signs of being tampered with, pages missing, torn pages, clear evidence that somebody had went through them, probably on several occasions.

 

[Bindy Badgy]

I would assume that it takes quite a lot of evidence to get a judge to sign off on a unnannounced raid at a former president's property? All people should be equal in the eyes of the law but, I think that most judges will be a bit more hesitant about authorising it when it's someone as high profile as Dumpth.

[ri Alban]

Trump is going to Guantanamo. Hair and suit to match.

[Bindy Badgy]

Timing of this might not be great from a Democrat point of view. BBC speculating that it could lead to increased Republican turn out in the midterms.

[JudyJudyJudy]

 

[Maple Leaf]

1 hour ago, Bindy Badgy said:

Timing of this might not be great from a Democrat point of view. BBC speculating that it could lead to increased Republican turn out in the midterms.

 

Donald Trump is a hero to conservative Americans.  He got the Supreme Court stacked with conservative judges, and it will be that way for a generation.  That alone offsets anything else he might do, even if it was a crime.

 

I think that the overturning of Roe v Wade will have a greater effect on the midterms, in a negative way for the Republicans, than the FBI action.

[Cade]

"but Hillary's e-mails!!"

 

 

Trumpy boy had boxes of classified papers stolen from the National Archives in his hoose FFS

[ri Alban]

I can see DT being taken out for National security and secrecy reasons.

[Dawnrazor]

35 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

I can see DT being taken out for National security and secrecy reasons.

I'm honestly surprised that he's still alive.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

I can see DT being taken out for National security and secrecy reasons.

 

He's obviously not opened Vlad's present of special tea leaves yet.

[Dawnrazor]

11 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

He's obviously not opened Vlad's present of special tea leaves yet.

I'd be very wary of touching door handles if I was him.

[Bindy Badgy]

1 hour ago, Dawnrazor said:

I'm honestly surprised that he's still alive.

 

His diet and lack of exercise should have been enough to kill him.

[Dawnrazor]

7 minutes ago, Bindy Badgy said:

 

His diet and lack of exercise should have been enough to kill him.

The perfect excuse you'd think to "bump him off" 

[Cade]

He's a living advert for McDonalds.

 

Nothing but their shite burgers at least three times a day for forty feckin years.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

16 minutes ago, Cade said:

He's a living advert for McDonalds.

 

Nothing but their shite burgers at least three times a day for forty feckin years.

 

Nah, he's moved up in the world. His own shite "Trump Steaks," always cooked well done, with nothing but ketchup. (I'm not making this up, he basically eats that all the time.)

[Cade]

He should be jailed for life just for having well done steaks with tomato sauce.

[dobmisterdobster]

6 minutes ago, Cade said:

He should be jailed for life just for having well done steaks with tomato sauce.

 

[Maple Leaf]

2 hours ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

 

One of the ventures of the "business genius".  

 

Trump Steaks folded after two months!!!!!!!

[The Real Maroonblood]

59 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

One of the ventures of the "business genius".  

 

Trump Steaks folded after two months!!!!!!!

The biggest mis(steak) is him being born.