U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[gjcc]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

The VP gets the gig.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession

Unfortunately it’s probably the only way a woman will get the gig under the current voting system. 

[Captain Slog]

5 minutes ago, Norm said:

I can't speak for the other poster but to me, any untrained, heavily armed random member of the public dressed up like it's the Purge comes across as a nutjob. 

 

So when you have 2 different, idealogically opposed, untrained, heavily armed groups square up to each other, that's an accident waiting to happen. 

 

Let the police do their job. Strolling up armed, to counter the other group strolling up armed, isn't helpful. 

Thanks Norm, more succinct than me.

[The Real Maroonblood]

22 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

The VP gets the gig.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession

 

22 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 Harris takes over. 

 

If Biden steps back it will be for health issues. He will be protected and supported by his team, he has selected a cabinet that on the surface is competent.

Thanks to you both. 

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, Captain Slog said:

Sorry Justin, I in no way mean to demean any decent human being that is prepared to defend their democracy.

 

However, maybe I'm spoiled being brought up in Scotland, I just think there are more appropriate methods of defending that democracy, and that by picking up assault rifles they are reducing themselves to the standards of the other side.  But, and I stress, I truly didn't know how bad things were in the US when I was considering emigrating last year, just how bad the right are, and concede that maybe these people think that's the only defence left to them.

 

No no, no apology needed. I just wasn't understanding you.

 

Regarding the bold bit, I can tell you from my own experience, that's right where I've arrived, as a lifelong gun control advocate. It was over this past summer that I joined a gun education association and started to gain competency in the use of firearms, not because I have any enthusiasm for that at all, but exactly because of what we ultimately saw at the Capitol in DC. They are ****ing nutters. We've been backed into this corner by need—a need I feel when I'm forced to be present in the US. If I never saw another gun in my entire life I'd be far happier.

 

I'm fortunate enough to have had a patchwork solution to date, to spend much of my time in Scotland. That's obviously not viable for a great many folk. And for what it's worth, they are far braver than me anyway. I have no qualms admitting that. But as I mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I made a conscious decision over five years ago that America was my accident of birth, not my “country”, and I've never regretted taking that position.

 

1 hour ago, Captain Slog said:

What I do know is that Im glad Dorothy is coming here instead of me going there, and she's getting out of that gun culture.

 

I'm glad for you too. That's brilliant to hear.

  

1 hour ago, Norm said:

I can't speak for the other poster but to me, any untrained, heavily armed random member of the public dressed up like it's the Purge comes across as a nutjob. 

 

So when you have 2 different, idealogically opposed, untrained, heavily armed groups square up to each other, that's an accident waiting to happen. 

 

Let the police do their job. Strolling up armed, to counter the other group strolling up armed, isn't helpful. 

 

This again presupposes the police would in any way help. Having seen them already open the gates to let the invaders into the Capitol, or an apt comparison I found humorous, “Nobody's asking where Miley Cyrus is when Hannah Montana is on stage”, this just doesn't work in the States. They are each other.

 

Actually, this brilliant thread about Black activist Fred Hampton, who was assassinated by the FBI a half century ago, might give you some idea as to why people to this day feel they cannot just “let the police do their job”—and how deep things run against regular people, in the halls of power in the US.

[Sharpie]

8 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

No no, no apology needed. I just wasn't understanding you.

 

Regarding the bold bit, I can tell you from my own experience, that's right where I've arrived, as a lifelong gun control advocate. It was over this past summer that I joined a gun education association and started to gain competency in the use of firearms, not because I have any enthusiasm for that at all, but exactly because of what we ultimately saw at the Capitol in DC. They are ****ing nutters. We've been backed into this corner by need—a need I feel when I'm forced to be present in the US. If I never saw another gun in my entire life I'd be far happier.

 

I'm fortunate enough to have had a patchwork solution to date, to spend much of my time in Scotland. That's obviously not viable for a great many folk. And for what it's worth, they are far braver than me anyway. I have no qualms admitting that. But as I mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I made a conscious decision over five years ago that America was my accident of birth, not my “country”, and I've never regretted taking that position.

 

 

I'm glad for you too. That's brilliant to hear.

  

 

This again presupposes the police would in any way help. Having seen them already open the gates to let the invaders into the Capitol, or an apt comparison I found humorous, “Nobody's asking where Miley Cyrus is when Hannah Montana is on stage”, this just doesn't work in the States. They are each other.

 

Actually, this brilliant thread about Black activist Fred Hampton, who was assassinated by the FBI a half century ago, might give you some idea as to why people to this day feel they cannot just “let the police do their job”—and how deep things run against regular people, in the halls of power in the US.

 

[Mysterion]

Anyone see the new footage this morning ? (*edit - think it was from The Atlantic)

 

The people who entered the Capitol building getting to folders left. Guy with a camera photographing documents saying along the line of 

"there must be something of their plan here we can get them with" as they go through pages.

 

One guy saying "Cruz would want us to do this" before they misread a doc and thought it was suggesting Cruz had sold them out and wasn't going to object. 

 

The level of crazy is unbelievable. 

The damage the lunatics have done to themselves and their family is actually sad. They'll sit in their jail cell and still blame Democrats and/or Biden.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Mysterion

[Sharpie]

  The problem with the United States that I see goes back to the Founders in that in their innocence they wanted to make the Country they were founding safer, more opportunity available to all, and by allowing reasonable access to self defence by allowing weapons primarily firearms, and the rights to free speech and protest which most of the new emigrants were not allowed in their royalty based  societies they left behind to seek opportunity  in a new world.

 

As happens with the good thoughts of man and now in this modern world women, there are those who would take those old mores and twist them into how they would use them to their advantage, which is a long way moved from what the Founders wanted to achieve. The actions by rioters a week ago were shocking to any reasonable observer. To see crowds enter the halls of government, do damage and call for the hanging of the second most powerful man in the Country is shameful, and dangerous.

 

There are civilian authorities responsible for assuring that the historic rights are freely used, they also are responsible to ensure they are not abused, recently in the United States we watched the Minneapolis unnecessary death of a black man with a knee to his throat, this gave rise to BLM, who used their rights, but did over use them to an extent. This has led to discussions, promises to lower  police budgets and manpower. Now the upholders of the law are angry, demoralised, and in some cases acting in a manner similar to those they should be policing.  About all that was needed to create a total breakdown of society was a President who has been identified by many as mentally deficient,a total stranger to the truth, and who in his damaged mind has often stated his desire to become President for life. On losing an election he immediately went into non acceptance role, and again lied to enhance his opportunities. One thing that concerned me prior to the election and after was his connection to the leaders of Police Unions, this concerned me because as a rule you only get in return what you give , the situation at the Capitol Building  was the type of thing I had feared, the working police did what they could, but the command were the complete opposite the actions and happenings indicate they did not do what they should. The worst police officer in the world seeing or being advised of the Presidents words some time prior to 6th January should have been stimulated to action. His words on the day of the riot were condoning and encouraging actions that would be breaches of the law. He is now being investigated and Impeached.

 

So now for an Inauguration, we have a retiring President refusing to welcome and honour a new President, and now the whole Country is in a state of defence only seen in the threat of war, generally from an outside invader, and the fear is in fact from Americans who feel their cause is just and legal because of the prompting of a soon to be former President. Faith and confidence in the police and lawmakers has been shattered and the military in the form of the National Guard utilised, but even they are being vetted in case of unsuitable allegiance. 

 

America is and there is only one word to describe, but it is a censored word commonly used when describing a deplorable situation.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Mysterion said:

Anyone see the new footage this morning ? (*edit - think it was from The Atlantic)

 

The people who entered the Capitol building getting to folders left. Guy with a camera photographing documents saying along the line of 

"there must be something of their plan here we can get them with" as they go through pages.

 

One guy saying "Cruz would want us to do this" before they misread a doc and thought it was suggesting Cruz had sold them out and wasn't going to object. 

 

The level of crazy is unbelievable. 

The damage the lunatics have done to themselves and their family is actually sad. They'll sit in their jail cell and still blame Democrats and/or Biden.

 

CNN was showing the same footage, unbelievable the level of delusion in these people.

[trotter]

1 hour ago, Sharpie said:

  The problem with the United States that I see goes back to the Founders in that in their innocence they wanted to make the Country they were founding safer, more opportunity available to all, and by allowing reasonable access to self defence by allowing weapons primarily firearms, and the rights to free speech and protest which most of the new emigrants were not allowed in their royalty based  societies they left behind to seek opportunity  in a new world.

 

As happens with the good thoughts of man and now in this modern world women, there are those who would take those old mores and twist them into how they would use them to their advantage, which is a long way moved from what the Founders wanted to achieve. The actions by rioters a week ago were shocking to any reasonable observer. To see crowds enter the halls of government, do damage and call for the hanging of the second most powerful man in the Country is shameful, and dangerous.

 

There are civilian authorities responsible for assuring that the historic rights are freely used, they also are responsible to ensure they are not abused, recently in the United States we watched the Minneapolis unnecessary death of a black man with a knee to his throat, this gave rise to BLM, who used their rights, but did over use them to an extent. This has led to discussions, promises to lower  police budgets and manpower. Now the upholders of the law are angry, demoralised, and in some cases acting in a manner similar to those they should be policing.  About all that was needed to create a total breakdown of society was a President who has been identified by many as mentally deficient,a total stranger to the truth, and who in his damaged mind has often stated his desire to become President for life. On losing an election he immediately went into non acceptance role, and again lied to enhance his opportunities. One thing that concerned me prior to the election and after was his connection to the leaders of Police Unions, this concerned me because as a rule you only get in return what you give , the situation at the Capitol Building  was the type of thing I had feared, the working police did what they could, but the command were the complete opposite the actions and happenings indicate they did not do what they should. The worst police officer in the world seeing or being advised of the Presidents words some time prior to 6th January should have been stimulated to action. His words on the day of the riot were condoning and encouraging actions that would be breaches of the law. He is now being investigated and Impeached.

 

So now for an Inauguration, we have a retiring President refusing to welcome and honour a new President, and now the whole Country is in a state of defence only seen in the threat of war, generally from an outside invader, and the fear is in fact from Americans who feel their cause is just and legal because of the prompting of a soon to be former President. Faith and confidence in the police and lawmakers has been shattered and the military in the form of the National Guard utilised, but even they are being vetted in case of unsuitable allegiance. 

 

America is and there is only one word to describe, but it is a censored word commonly used when describing a deplorable situation.

Great and thoughtful post Bob. 

 

Some thoughts from my side, and whilst not as long as you, I've lived on this side of The Pond for 8 years now. 

 

1) Not all Republicans are bad/crazy/gun-toting lunatics. Most of them that I know are very pleasant. I'm very shortly going to be engaged to one actually. My office is basically full of them and none of them act like the idiots you see on TV. Yes they have opinions on things that I don't necessarily agree with, but they are happy to debate and then agree to disagree.

2) The Constitution is/was a great document, very much like the Magna Carta in that respect. However, I believe it was written as a set of ideals to form a unified country rather than some inviolable rule that can never be changed. That is why there are a shit-tonne of Amendments to it. 

Where the problem lies is people who cannot, or will not, accept that it needs to be adapted and interpreted differently as time goes by to reflect modern society and not just used as a blanket excuse for shitty behaviour, "But you're violating my xx Amendment right" - **** right off.

3) I hope Donald finds himself sharing a 6 x 8 with an immigrant called El Burro very, very shortly indeed

4) Maybe controversial, but I don't think Ivanka is that bad. She seems to be the only one in that family at least trying to use her status for good. I have no doubt there is self-interest there, but she does come across as relatively genuine in many respects. Compare and contrast with the sons who are just dicks. 

5) America isn't a broken or lost country. She is fundamentally good, but has just lost her way right now. Too much time looking at problems outside her borders has left problems festering inside unchecked. This can be fixed, but it needs firm and decisive action to do so, something I hope and believe the Biden administration can do.

[Sharpie]

9 minutes ago, trotter said:

Great and thoughtful post Bob. 

 

Some thoughts from my side, and whilst not as long as you, I've lived on this side of The Pond for 8 years now. 

 

1) Not all Republicans are bad/crazy/gun-toting lunatics. Most of them that I know are very pleasant. I'm very shortly going to be engaged to one actually. My office is basically full of them and none of them act like the idiots you see on TV. Yes they have opinions on things that I don't necessarily agree with, but they are happy to debate and then agree to disagree.

2) The Constitution is/was a great document, very much like the Magna Carta in that respect. However, I believe it was written as a set of ideals to form a unified country rather than some inviolable rule that can never be changed. That is why there are a shit-tonne of Amendments to it. 

Where the problem lies is people who cannot, or will not, accept that it needs to be adapted and interpreted differently as time goes by to reflect modern society and not just used as a blanket excuse for shitty behaviour, "But you're violating my xx Amendment right" - **** right off.

3) I hope Donald finds himself sharing a 6 x 8 with an immigrant called El Burro very, very shortly indeed

4) Maybe controversial, but I don't think Ivanka is that bad. She seems to be the only one in that family at least trying to use her status for good. I have no doubt there is self-interest there, but she does come across as relatively genuine in many respects. Compare and contrast with the sons who are just dicks. 

5) America isn't a broken or lost country. She is fundamentally good, but has just lost her way right now. Too much time looking at problems outside her borders has left problems festering inside unchecked. This can be fixed, but it needs firm and decisive action to do so, something I hope and believe the Biden administration can do.

 An interesting and educating read, always good to get a well thought out post. Thats what discussion and debate are all about the access to new and open information and views.

[I P Knightley]

1 hour ago, trotter said:

5) America isn't a broken or lost country. She is fundamentally good, but has just lost her way right now. Too much time looking at problems outside her borders has left problems festering inside unchecked. This can be fixed, but it needs firm and decisive action to do so, something I hope and believe the Biden administration can do.

Perhaps it's because of the time spent foreign wars that the domestic problems have grown?

 

When a country goes to war, there are goodies and there are baddies. For a country that's (generally) as ignorant of lands beyond its borders as the US is, that becomes "foreigners are baddies" and you get the kind of suspicion of dark-skinned folk and folk of other religions that Trump has spent the last 5 or 6 years preying on and amplifying. It's kind of exemplified by the fact that "socialist" is such a dirty word there. For them, 'socialist' = 'communist' = 'Russky' and not the good kind of Russky, the one that will piss on you in a Moscow hotel room; the type of Russky that queues for bread and is grey.

[trotter]

2 hours ago, Sharpie said:

 An interesting and educating read, always good to get a well thought out post. Thats what discussion and debate are all about the access to new and open information and views.

👍

[trotter]

20 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

Perhaps it's because of the time spent foreign wars that the domestic problems have grown?

 

When a country goes to war, there are goodies and there are baddies. For a country that's (generally) as ignorant of lands beyond its borders as the US is, that becomes "foreigners are baddies" and you get the kind of suspicion of dark-skinned folk and folk of other religions that Trump has spent the last 5 or 6 years preying on and amplifying. It's kind of exemplified by the fact that "socialist" is such a dirty word there. For them, 'socialist' = 'communist' = 'Russky' and not the good kind of Russky, the one that will piss on you in a Moscow hotel room; the type of Russky that queues for bread and is grey.

Pretty much bang on in my view. The number of Americans who either don't know, or more worryingly just don't care what happens outside their borders is staggering. I have many good friends here, some of them extremely well educated and the above still applies. 

 

The whole socialism/communism thing harks back to the Cold War when Russia was 'the enemy', and a lot of Americans haven't seem to let that go yet for some reason.

[Cade]

War;

God's way of teaching the Americans Geography.

[Sharpie]

I'll harp on with my usual peeve, but I just find it ironic that the President preaches war and military strength, and the word fight, is the one who in accordance with his life habit of lieing, cheating and used  both to avoid serving his Country in time of war. He even lied to his faithful followers  when he told them they would be following him on the walk to the Capitol. The last thing Mr Trump will do is put his corpulent person in any danger of physical contest.  He is a cowturd.

[DETTY29]

13 minutes ago, Cade said:

War;

God's way of teaching the Americans Geography.

Quite often pops up on my YouTube.

 

Spoof surely?

 

 

 

[haveyouheard1874]

What a fantastic thread and phenomenal read. Learned so much reading this, took a while but thoroughly enjoyable . thanks for all the contributions, certainly opened my eyes to many things and hopefully  Trump  will face  a multitude of court cases that financially ruin him and then the  pokey for delusional mad man

Edited January 18, 2021 by haveyouheard1874

[jambopilms]

It's what happens when village idiots get a voice and the internet as a medium. These people don't represent the majority, just make far to much noise. The media give them too much air time, it makes you think the whole country is at it. 

[Lone Striker]

On 16/01/2021 at 23:30, Jambos_1874 said:

 

I'm going off on a bit of a tangent, but I just watched a documentary on Jimmy Carter (about his love of music, on Sky Arts) and he came across as a genuinely compassionate, honest, caring man. The human rights work he has done since leaving office is remarkable and although his presidency seems to have been regarded as unsuccessful, from what I have read he did many good things and consistently acted in a moral, fair way on most issues and without dragging the US into various conflicts, as has have many of his successors/predecessors. He certainly seems to be the complete opposite of the current president and stands head and shoulders above the vast majority to have held that office (in my opinion).

 

Excellent summary. 👍  Yes, I saw that documentary too - made me realise how poor my awareness was of his life and rise to become President.  Very interesting to see how he used music and his many celeb contacts to facilitate the tense Camp David  Sadat-Begin talks ... and the visit of the Chinese rulers too.      He seemed a very approachable, clever  and likeable guy who didn't mind being the target of a joke....  but who was clearly respected and loved by loads and loads of people. 

 

It was a brilliantly informative documentary with lots of  music legends popping up.

[Sharpie]

Trump apparently considering one hundred Pardons tomorrow. He is also believed to be releasing a video tomorrow where it is suspected he will go through the whole election fraud thing. Still thlnking about his big ceremony twenty one guns, military band, and Guard of Honour, apparently now talking about a fly past of Air Force fighter planes. Any thing to get his team of thugs wired up.

[Justin Z]

8 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

Excellent summary. 👍  Yes, I saw that documentary too - made me realise how poor my awareness was of his life and rise to become President.  Very interesting to see how he used music and his many celeb contacts to facilitate the tense Camp David  Sadat-Begin talks ... and the visit of the Chinese rulers too.      He seemed a very approachable, clever  and likeable guy who didn't mind being the target of a joke....  but who was clearly respected and loved by loads and loads of people.

 

But this just wouldn't do for “real Murricans”. I can remember my dad, decades ago, pontificating about the coincidental timing of Reagan's inauguration and Iran's releasing the hostages they'd taken, and how that's what happened when we didn't have a “pushover wimp” in the White House anymore.

 

Carter did his best to tell Americans some hard truths about our country and ourselves. We didn't want to hear it, because though many of us are decent people individually, collectively we are arseholes. Reagan ramped the American mythology up to 11, and well and truly started us down the path to where we are now.

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Justin Z

[JFK-1]

A Reporter’s Footage from Inside the Capitol Siege | The New Yorker

 

Luke Mogelson followed Trump supporters as they forced their way into the U.S. Capitol, using his phone’s camera as a reporter’s notebook.

 

 

[JFK-1]

7 hours ago, Sharpie said:

Trump apparently considering one hundred Pardons tomorrow. He is also believed to be releasing a video tomorrow where it is suspected he will go through the whole election fraud thing. Still thlnking about his big ceremony twenty one guns, military band, and Guard of Honour, apparently now talking about a fly past of Air Force fighter planes. Any thing to get his team of thugs wired up.

 

Giuliani Peddles $2M Pardons While The President Spends His Final Days In Dubious Company

 

 

 

[DETTY29]

The Trump Show series on BBC iPlayer has just dropped in Ep 4 this morning titled 'Downfall'

 

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by DETTY29

[Mysterion]

9 hours ago, Sharpie said:

Trump apparently considering one hundred Pardons tomorrow. He is also believed to be releasing a video tomorrow where it is suspected he will go through the whole election fraud thing. Still thlnking about his big ceremony twenty one guns, military band, and Guard of Honour, apparently now talking about a fly past of Air Force fighter planes. Any thing to get his team of thugs wired up.

Pentagon denied his military request.

[Justin Z]

[RobboM]

Opening podcast of what promises to be an interesting insight into Trump's strategy to steal the election and the aftermath. I listened to the opening episode this morning

https://www.axios.com/podcasts/how-it-happened/

In part one of How It Happened: Trump's Last Stand, Axios political correspondent Jonathan Swan draws a direct line from President Trump's election night speech, in which he falsely declared victory, to the Jan. 6 insurrection at the Capitol.

[Justin Z]

An article on why "leaving it to the police" simply doesn't work:

 

An FBI Agent Went Undercover to Study White Supremacists. He's Now Speaking Out About Racist Police.

 

The storming of the Capitol has revived concerns about the ties between police and white supremacists, in part because officers arrested far more Black Lives Matter protesters this summer than they did Trump supporters who broke into the legislative building with weapons, at least one Confederate flag, and bundles of zip ties.

 

It wasn’t just on-duty cops who raised eyebrows: Off-duty law enforcement officers were allegedly part of the mob itself, with some flashing their badges and identification cards as they rushed through the doors, according to an on-duty DC Metro Police officer who saw them. “If these people can storm the Capitol building with no regard to punishment, you have to wonder how much they abuse their powers when they put on their uniforms,” the officer wrote later on Facebook, according to Politico.

 

It's worth a reminder that the FBI first received intelligence about the white supremacist infiltration of US law enforcement nearly 15 years ago. As you can see from what happened at the Capitol, they haven't done shit about it. But as shared in the Twitter thread above, Black people trying to better their—and everyone's—station in life? Send in a mole, assassinate the target, and cover it up.

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Justin Z

[Sharpie]

3 hours ago, Mysterion said:

Pentagon denied his military request.

  I didn't see that, quit news watching to watch a Canucks hockey game, they are just like my days watching Hearts, when you give up other interests to watch them they get beat, and your night is ruined. So I missed good news about Trump to watch a different disaster.

[Cade]

Georgia certifies both Democrat Senators

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

16 minutes ago, Cade said:

Georgia certifies both Democrat Senators

 

👍

[Mysterion]

8 hours ago, Sharpie said:

  I didn't see that, quit news watching to watch a Canucks hockey game, they are just like my days watching Hearts, when you give up other interests to watch them they get beat, and your night is ruined. So I missed good news about Trump to watch a different disaster.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9156861/Pentagon-denies-Donald-Trumps-request-military-style-farewell-parade.html

 

This is the article i saw - however i saw an update suggesting he may get a gun salute or something like that. 

 

None the less - good to see the Pentagon break tradition as a bit of an FU to the Ego in Chief.

[Cade]

 

[Lone Striker]

13 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

The Trump Show series on BBC iPlayer has just dropped in Ep 4 this morning titled 'Downfall'

 

 

Just watched it -  essential viewing.   

 

Showed one of the 2016 debates with Hilary, when he got his claims of rigged election in  BEFORE  the vote - Hilary spoke of  several prior events where he did the same.    Also mentioned the storyline in one of his favourite films - Citizen Kane - basically a blueprint for how a dishonest powerful candidate can respond to electoral defeat by spreading fake news of widespread fraud.  

 

Scaramucci  looks and sounds the epitome of a NY crime boss - but he'd sussed Trump out  pretty accurately in the 10 days he was at the White House before he was fired.

 

View it here -   https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p093rzhd/the-trump-show-downfall?xtor=CS8-1000-[Discovery_Cards]-[Multi_Site]-[SL03]-[PS_IPLAYER~C~~P_TheTrumpShowTheDownfall]

[Mikey1874]

There are probably some hidden regulatory changes he made to help the economy long term. 

 

But his main impact and achievement is probably the 3 Supreme Court appointments. 

[Mikey1874]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

Georgia certifies both Democrat Senators

 

 

Or his actual greatest achievement. 

 

To be continued. 

[Dorothy]

12 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

It's worth a reminder that the FBI first received intelligence about the white supremacist infiltration of US law enforcement nearly 15 years ago. As you can see from what happened at the Capitol, they haven't done shit about it.

 

This.

 

It took me a good while into my adult years to understand how not okay the police situation is in the US. Just like gun rights, I knew it was different in other parts of the world, but not THAT different. Once I saw, I can't un-see. This is not the America you're raised to love and respect. What is pushed through on the pro-American rhetoric and the difference that is reality is astounding. If the US was anything like it tries to portray, I would be a patriot, but now all I can see is the "with liberty and justice to all" where "all" means middle to upper class white men.

[Pasquale for King]

Still waiting on these 100 pardons. 

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Pasquale for King

[Pasquale for King]

14 minutes ago, Dorothy said:

This.

 

It took me a good while into my adult years to understand how not okay the police situation is in the US. Just like gun rights, I knew it was different in other parts of the world, but not THAT different. Once I saw, I can't un-see. This is not the America you're raised to love and respect. What is pushed through on the pro-American rhetoric and the difference that is reality is astounding. If the US was anything like it tries to portray, I would be a patriot, but now all I can see is the "with liberty and justice to all" where "all" means middle to upper class white men.

Spot on 

[Sharpie]

Twelve National Guardsmen removed from their duties in D.C. after security investigations. Some concerns being expressed about serving regular members of the US military , and retired members of all these services attended in the riots, and may have been armed. So the military, the National Guard, Police and Firemen all reportedly took part in the riot last week,  I live a short distance from the Border, no longer but was a regular traveller into the States. Love the Country, and love the people, a good many are a bit different to my Scottish and Canadian neighbours, but I never felt the difference could ever become threatening, but I am afraid things have changed, and after Impeachment, and time out of office the Trump rhetoric will encourage further acts of violence, even directed towards friendly neighbours. Some say, "but he is going to be in prison with all the stuff he has  done", to me that will only give him a greater pulpit to spout his "they are all out to get me crap."

Edited January 20, 2021 by Sharpie

[DETTY29]

Jonathan Pie holding back a little.

 

 

 

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, DETTY29 said:

Jonathan Pie holding back a little.

 

 

 

I could listen to him all day. Brilliant 

[trotter]

3 hours ago, Sharpie said:

Twelve National Guardsmen removed from their duties in D.C. after security investigations. Some concerns being expressed about serving regular members of the US military , and retired members of all these services attended in the riots, and may have been armed. So the military, the National Guard, Police and Firemen all reportedly took part in the riot last week,  I live a short distance from the Border, no longer but was a regular traveller into the States. Love the Country, and love the people, a good many are a bit different to my Scottish and Canadian neighbours, but I never felt the difference could ever become threatening, but I am afraid things have changed, and after Impeachment, and time out of office the Trump rhetoric will encourage further acts of violence, even directed towards friendly neighbours. Some say, "but he is going to be in prison with all the stuff he has  done", to me that will only give him a greater pulpit to spout his "they are all out to get me crap."

Bob, again replying from my perspective living in "deepest, darkest Texas"...

 

@jamboplims made the point more succinctly that I can above. The vast, vast majority of Americans (at least the ones that I have met) understand the mechanisms of a democratic voting system. You may not like the result, but you respect the process that led you there and then you move on. 

For all his bluster about being the greatest ever, all Trump did within his presidency (or at least harnessed in his quest for absolute power - remember the phrase Lenin used of 'useful idiots'?) was to give a very, very minority of the lunatic fringe a platform that legitimized their otherwise illegitimate position. His inflammatory statements, his baseless rhetoric of everyone being out to get him and 'them', just galvanized them into a fight THAT SIMPLY DOES NOT EXIST IN REALITY. 

 

Biden has a hell of a job on his hands, but I hope, and fully expect, he will use his experience to reunite the now Fractured States of America.

[John Gentleman]

Trump's just gone and created another 'first' by pardoning Bannon - charged with federal offences, but yet to face trial.
I'd hope the incoming administration has the fortitude to refer this to the Supreme Court. It would be very 'insightful' to read their ruling on pre-emptive pardons (Nixon's was never tested).

[Spitonastranger]

6 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

Jonathan Pie holding back a little.

 

 

 

Thats excellent can he do one on BoJo 

[Justin Z]

9 hours ago, Dorothy said:

This.

 

It took me a good while into my adult years to understand how not okay the police situation is in the US. Just like gun rights, I knew it was different in other parts of the world, but not THAT different. Once I saw, I can't un-see. This is not the America you're raised to love and respect. What is pushed through on the pro-American rhetoric and the difference that is reality is astounding. If the US was anything like it tries to portray, I would be a patriot, but now all I can see is the "with liberty and justice to all" where "all" means middle to upper class white men.

 

Thank you for this post. It's a long road from the image we portray of ourselves (and to ourselves!) to the sobering reality of the way things really are.

[JFK-1]

President Biden (full documentary) | FRONTLINE

 

 

 

[JFK-1]

41 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Thank you for this post. It's a long road from the image we portray of ourselves (and to ourselves!) to the sobering reality of the way things really are.

 

I feel the endless talk of liberty and justice for all has been a sham since day one. Who were the first permanent colonisers? The revered 'pilgrim fathers' right? Almost but not quite as revered as the 'founding fathers'.

Why were the pilgrim fathers there? Well to escape religious persecution apparently. And the moment they became settled began to enthusiastically inflict religious persecution on anyone not of their religion. The irony.

Then the almost deity like worship of the founding fathers and their declaration of independence. Which included this.
 

Quote

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

All men except those black folks i'm holding in slavery and any offspring they may have too will be born into a lifetime of slavery. Further irony.

Then almost a century later they fight a civil war which ultimately frees the black people. Sort of. Then sit back for another century while the black folks are Jim Crowed back into submission.

And in many ways it still hasn't changed much. If it had the curse of Trump would never have befallen the nation.

[The Real Maroonblood]

8 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

Jonathan Pie holding back a little.

 

 

 

Brilliant.

[Justin Z]

34 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

I feel the endless talk of liberty and justice for all has been a sham since day one. Who were the first permanent colonisers? The revered 'pilgrim fathers' right? Almost but not quite as revered as the 'founding fathers'.

 

Well exactly. And yet you still to this day have cursed centrists in their millions “both sides”ing everything into meaningless oblivion. Folks of colour, tired of being roughed up and murdered by police, engage in largely nonviolent, direct action around the nation. For these useless apologists, that's the moral equivalent to an insurrection on the Capitol.

 

Rant incoming. What we end up with thanks to them is pish like Trump's 1776 Report, which was just released on MLK Day, no less:

 

‘A hack job,’ ‘outright lies’: Trump commission’s ‘1776 Report’ outrages historians

 

“It’s a hack job. It’s not a work of history,” American Historical Association executive director James Grossman told The Washington Post. “It’s a work of contentious politics designed to stoke culture wars.”

. . .
The 45-page report is largely an attack on decades of historical scholarship, particularly when it comes to the nation’s 400-year-old legacy of slavery, and most of those listed as authors lack any credentials as historians. While claiming to present a nonpartisan history, it compares progressivism to fascism and claims the civil rights movement devolved into “preferential” identity politics “not unlike those advanced by [slavery defender John C.] Calhoun and his followers.”

 

But all's fair when "both sides are looneys." Away to ****.

 

“I don’t know where to begin,” said public historian Alexis Coe. “This ‘report’ lacks citations or any indication books were consulted, which explains why it’s riddled in errors, distortions, and outright lies.”

 

Kali Nicole Gross, a history professor at Rutgers and Emory universities and the co-author of “A Black Women’s History of the United States,” said it was “dusty, dated” and “the usual dodge on the long-lasting, harmful impacts of settler-colonialism, enslavement, Jim Crow, the oppression of women, the plight of queer people … as the true threat to democracy.”

 

The people and the political movement responsible for this “historical analysis” are looneys. They don't like history, they don't like what it says, and they want to whitewash centuries of American wrongs. So they have pitted themselves up against historical consensus and sensible interpretation. Are we now to deem the accredited historians whose work they've criticised “looneys” as well, and declare that somewhere in the middle must be the right answer?

 

So yeah, this is what we get when millions of us are cowards who won't take a stand against obviously wrong things. And the media does it too, with everything, because that's what drives audiences to them. Evolution, abortion, the legitimacy of the election, and on and on. It's the exact same logic, when faced with two people—one in favour of ethnic cleansing and one who thinks it is bad—that would lead you to decide that maybe gulags or segregation is the “reasonable”, “middle of the road” answer.