U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[Des Lynam]

10 minutes ago, Cade said:

 

 

[JFK-1]

Sam Harris - AN INSURRECTION OF LIES

 

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by JFK-1

[Riccarton3]

9 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Just saw this in twitter, scary stuff. 

Quite ironic as everything they represent is anti democracy.  Unable to succeed with the  numbers required via argument, the truth is twisted. What freedom is this you speak of? 

[Cade]

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”

― Isaac Asimov

[Riccarton3]

The United States military should be making noises DEMANDING a presence at all state Capitols. Their role is to protect the nation from external and internal terrorism that threatens the very fabric of democracy. what more evidence do they need?

[John Findlay]

3 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

The United States military should be making noises DEMANDING a presence at all state Capitols. Their role is to protect the nation from external and internal terrorism that threatens the very fabric of democracy. what more evidence do they need?

Know why you said that, but, that would be a bad move, the US military are more trigger happy than their law enforcement. 

The FBI taken action now should avoid further bloodshed and bloodbaths that seriously imho could happen if they allow these nutters to carry out what their Intel is telling them.

[Riccarton3]

7 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Know why you said that, but, that would be a bad move, the US military are more trigger happy than their law enforcement. 

The FBI taken action now should avoid further bloodshed and bloodbaths that seriously imho could happen if they allow these nutters to carry out what their Intel is telling them.

Apparently there are 10k home guard actually on call for 20th. Only 2k more than in 2017? There seems to be a curious reluctance to show real strength , here, against enemies of the state in p!ain sight. I want some shock and awe against Nazis.

[Pasquale for King]

44 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Quite ironic as everything they represent is anti democracy.  Unable to succeed with the  numbers required via argument, the truth is twisted. What freedom is this you speak of? 

Shouting USA whilst beating up the cop that died, that kind of freedom. 

[Cade]

"In a tense, 30-minute-plus phone call with House minority leader Kevin McCarthy, Trump trotted out the Antifa line.
McCarthy would have none of it, telling the president: “It’s not Antifa, it’s MAGA. I know. I was there,” according to a White House official and another source familiar with the call.

The source, a White House official, said the call was tense and aggressive at times, with Trump ranting about election fraud and an exasperated McCarthy cutting in to say, “Stop it. It’s over. The election is over.”

He told Trump he should call Joe Biden, meet with the president-elect and follow tradition and leave a welcome letter in the Resolute Desk for his successor.
The president told him he hadn’t decided whether to do so for Biden."

Two sources say McCarthy, relayed the president’s sentiment on a call Monday with the House GOP Conference. McCarthy, on the call Monday with Republicans, agreed that Trump bore blame for the unrest which sent Congress into lockdown as they tried to certify the results of the 2020 presidential election last week."

 

[Sharpie]

3 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Begs the question in my mind. If the FBI have this Intel, why dont they arrest the ringleaders now? Prevention being better than cure.

Or do they prefer to wait until there is possibly several dead bodies on the steps of all 50 state Capitol buildings and again on the Capitol building in Washington DC itself.

Amateur doesn't even come close to describing US law enforcement.

It is possible they have an informant who has some of the information but not enough for arrests, I watched an FBI man interviewed last night, he pointed out the FBI had 15,000 agents. At this time they are working on threats to Capitol Buildings in fifty of the States, they will do what is their mandate pass the information to affected Police Departments to protect the targets in their jurisdictions.  Informants pass the information as they get it, sometimes it is good sometimes not,  to make the arrests based on minimal information and strictly words of intent may actually be more counterproductive  than helpful. If there is a report that someone is talking about planting a bomb in a Capitol Building and is arrested, does that mean the organisation that are planning to invade the building will not. It is better sometimes to sit on the information and advise all jurisdictions to take extreme care and action and organise preventive plans, distribution of manpower etc. Just the opposite of the actions of the Capitol Police.   

 

 

[Nucky Thompson]

I can't see Biden lasting his full term, I reckon he'll be in a care home before then.

The guy is a geriatric.

I was watching him on BBC news getting his 2nd jab and when he stood up he had a dodgy looking white stain on his trousers 

I feel sorry for the American people having to put up with a lunatic for the last few years, now they have this clown

[Riccarton3]

2 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I can't see Biden lasting his full term, I reckon he'll be in a care home before then.

The guy is a geriatric.

I was watching him on BBC news getting his 2nd jab and when he stood up he had a dodgy looking white stain on his trousers 

I feel sorry for the American people having to put up with a lunatic for the last few years, now they have this clown

At least he'll be working as part of a team, I guess

[JFK-1]

Pence has reportedly said that he still isn't entirely ruling out invoking the 25th amendment to remove Trump. But he is reluctant to do so for fear of what Trump may do if he goes down that path.

So let me get this straight. You're leaving a man in office who you apparently think is too unstable to remove? For fear of what he may do?

This is confusing me. I was thinking he had to be removed for fear of what he may do. Not kept in office for fear of what he may do if threatened with removal.

[John Findlay]

16 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

It is possible they have an informant who has some of the information but not enough for arrests, I watched an FBI man interviewed last night, he pointed out the FBI had 15,000 agents. At this time they are working on threats to Capitol Buildings in fifty of the States, they will do what is their mandate pass the information to affected Police Departments to protect the targets in their jurisdictions.  Informants pass the information as they get it, sometimes it is good sometimes not,  to make the arrests based on minimal information and strictly words of intent may actually be more counterproductive  than helpful. If there is a report that someone is talking about planting a bomb in a Capitol Building and is arrested, does that mean the organisation that are planning to invade the building will not. It is better sometimes to sit on the information and advise all jurisdictions to take extreme care and action and organise preventive plans, distribution of manpower etc. Just the opposite of the actions of the Capitol Police.   

 

 

Bob, I think their intelligence is more substantial than just informers.

I also personally believe the FBI cannot just leave it to the local law enforcement, as I dont think alot of local law enforcement are qualified or perharps even have the stomach to defend their Capitol buildings fully/correctly. 

I just dont have the faith in them.

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

12 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I can't see Biden lasting his full term, I reckon he'll be in a care home before then.

The guy is a geriatric.

I was watching him on BBC news getting his 2nd jab and when he stood up he had a dodgy looking white stain on his trousers 

I feel sorry for the American people having to put up with a lunatic for the last few years, now they have this clown

I still think it’s a shoe in for Kamala Harris to become President at some point.

[Pasquale for King]

14 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I can't see Biden lasting his full term, I reckon he'll be in a care home before then.

The guy is a geriatric.

I was watching him on BBC news getting his 2nd jab and when he stood up he had a dodgy looking white stain on his trousers 

I feel sorry for the American people having to put up with a lunatic for the last few years, now they have this clown

Yet you support and voted for BJ 😆😂🤣🤪. 

[Pasquale for King]

Seems legit 

[Sharpie]

1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

Bob, I think their intelligence is more substantial than just informers.

I also personally believe the FBI cannot just leave it to the local law enforcement, as I dont think a lot of local law enforcement are qualified or perharps even have the stomach to defend their Capitol buildings fully/correctly. 

I just dont have the faith in them.

 

 Fair enough John,  I just see it differently. As I said the FBI man on TV last night said that there were 15,000 appointed agents. We must not forget that police and FBI still have other crimes and investigations to work on. Manpower for something this big is a problem.  To be honest I am not sure the US Army can be used for all the requirements of this situation, thats why the National Guard who are basically civilians in uniform are utilised. Certainly see body armored FBI men rushing in to places to make arrests, but that is concluding a Federal investigation, they are neither sufficiently manpowered or trained in basic policing actions i.e crowd control they are more like the coach of a team sitting on the bench directing play and researching the other teams tactics.   

 

I have my problems with what like everyone else I see on TV and hear about U.S.Police, but for a situation like this we cannot prejudge al based on the actions of the Capitol Police.To be blunt I believe their command structure betrayed the members, the public and the Government officials they were sworn to protect.    

 

I can understand your lack of faith and that of others, I am less confident than I might have been in the past, reports last night of police members being past of the mob on Wednesday casts a serious doubt not on the ability of the police but the desire and motivation to protect something that some of them apparently disagree with, if this is so there is a more serious problem than riots, there is the total possibility of complete anarchy. History ha shown that the leadership by a person with mental problems has not been a blocking factor for radicals, such a leader gives them as here and now with Trump the motivation and cause for action they need.

 

I have to say I do not come up with my rantings just from TV, I have lived in the environment, seen humans at their worst, I have also fortunately seen those who were considered not the best when the time came perform their duty as expected and required.

 

This situation has gone past the right to demonstrate, free speech ,it is now on the verge of  revolution and the fire is being stoked by a narcissistic, mentally disturbed would be dictator.

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

24 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

I still think it’s a shoe in for Kamala Harris to become President at some point.

 

America would never vote for a woman to become President, they are not ready to do that yet, so this is the only way that a woman can get the top job.  If she make's a half decent job of it, then America might be brave enough to actually vote for a woman President.

[I P Knightley]

42 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I was watching him on BBC news getting his 2nd jab and when he stood up he had a dodgy looking white stain on his trousers 

 

I'll be excited when I get my injection, but not that excited.

[The Real Maroonblood]

13 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

America would never vote for a woman to become President, they are not ready to do that yet, so this is the only way that a woman can get the top job.  If she make's a half decent job of it, then America might be brave enough to actually vote for a woman President.

They nearly got one with Clinton who had 3 million votes more than Trump.

Getting Obama must have upset a few.

[redjambo]

42 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

America would never vote for a woman to become President, they are not ready to do that yet, so this is the only way that a woman can get the top job.  If she make's a half decent job of it, then America might be brave enough to actually vote for a woman President.

 

They did in 2016, it's just that the electoral college system meant that Trump won.

[Sharpie]

38 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

They nearly got one with Clinton who had 3 million votes more than Trump.

Getting Obama must have upset a few.

Yes its funny the electoral college didn't pull Trump through this time.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Sharpie

[SwindonJambo]

4 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

Yes its funny the electoral college didn't pull Trump through this time.

Al Gore got more votes than Dubya Bush in 2000 yet the latter won after a wafer thin win in Florida.

 

The Electoral College System is as bent as a Shepherd's Crook and overwhelmingly favours the Republicans in a close vote.

[Sharpie]

5 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

Al Gore got more votes than Dubya Bush in 2000 yet the latter won after a wafer thin win in Florida.

 

The Electoral College System is as bent as a Shepherd's Crook and overwhelmingly favours the Republicans in a close vote.

 That whole Bush/Gore fiasco was settled reasonably amicably and without civic unrest because of the actions of Gore accepting the ultimate result. Good man , looking even better many years later.

[Mysterion]

7 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

 That whole Bush/Gore fiasco was settled reasonably amicably and without civic unrest because of the actions of Gore accepting the ultimate result. Good man , looking even better many years later.

 

Gore/Bush was still in a time where the polarised media was getting going but there were some heavyweight politicians who viewed the institutions as sacrosanct. Since that time the likes of Fox have ramped up in new and incredibly unfathomable ways whilst the old guard have retired or passed away. 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Mysterion

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, Sharpie said:

 Fair enough John,  I just see it differently. As I said the FBI man on TV last night said that there were 15,000 appointed agents. We must not forget that police and FBI still have other crimes and investigations to work on. Manpower for something this big is a problem.  To be honest I am not sure the US Army can be used for all the requirements of this situation, thats why the National Guard who are basically civilians in uniform are utilised. Certainly see body armored FBI men rushing in to places to make arrests, but that is concluding a Federal investigation, they are neither sufficiently manpowered or trained in basic policing actions i.e crowd control they are more like the coach of a team sitting on the bench directing play and researching the other teams tactics.   

 

I have my problems with what like everyone else I see on TV and hear about U.S.Police, but for a situation like this we cannot prejudge al based on the actions of the Capitol Police.To be blunt I believe their command structure betrayed the members, the public and the Government officials they were sworn to protect.    

 

I can understand your lack of faith and that of others, I am less confident than I might have been in the past, reports last night of police members being past of the mob on Wednesday casts a serious doubt not on the ability of the police but the desire and motivation to protect something that some of them apparently disagree with, if this is so there is a more serious problem than riots, there is the total possibility of complete anarchy. History ha shown that the leadership by a person with mental problems has not been a blocking factor for radicals, such a leader gives them as here and now with Trump the motivation and cause for action they need.

 

I have to say I do not come up with my rantings just from TV, I have lived in the environment, seen humans at their worst, I have also fortunately seen those who were considered not the best when the time came perform their duty as expected and required.

 

This situation has gone past the right to demonstrate, free speech ,it is now on the verge of  revolution and the fire is being stoked by a narcissistic, mentally disturbed would be dictator.

 

Thank you for this reply Bob.

[Cade]

Bush/Gore still gives me the seethe even now after all these years.

Bush's brother, as Governor of Florida, stopped the recount and handed the victory to GW.

 

Banana republic.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

They nearly got one with Clinton who had 3 million votes more than Trump.

Getting Obama must have upset a few.

 

Probably more than a few tbh.

 

Just imagine for some of the real rednecked misogynistic racists, it must be like the end of their World for them, not only having a black man as President but then a woman as well within their lifetime. 

[Cade]

New head of Capitol police is a black woman, Yogananda Pittman.

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

37 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Probably more than a few tbh.

 

Just imagine for some of the real rednecked misogynistic racists, it must be like the end of their World for them, not only having a black man as President but then a woman as well within their lifetime. 

[SwindonJambo]

12 minutes ago, Cade said:

New head of Capitol police is a black woman, Yogananda Pittman.

 

Excellent News. Her 1st week in the job could be a baptism of fire, hopefully not literally 😳

[Sharpie]

Just watched as much as I could stand of the Rule Commitee session. The Democrats wanting Trump removed, Jim Jordan Republican asked if he is willing to state that Joe Biden won the election fair and square, Jordan forcefully declined spouting the party line of misdoings that have been quashed by courts, he then spouts historical events where Democrats reneged against election results, to be honest all thats missing is the temper caused stamping of the feet, and my faither could beat your faither retorts. Turned it off ,if I was a doctor , and America my patient I would be advising it sorry but there is nothing more we can do, in the absence of a miracle you are going to suffer a painful sad death. You have a large orange topped tumour that is going to be extremely difficult to remove.

 

[Maple Leaf]

15 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

Just watched as much as I could stand of the Rule Commitee session. The Democrats wanting Trump removed, Jim Jordan Republican asked if he is willing to state that Joe Biden won the election fair and square, Jordan forcefully declined spouting the party line of misdoings that have been quashed by courts, he then spouts historical events where Democrats reneged against election results, to be honest all thats missing is the temper caused stamping of the feet, and my faither could beat your faither retorts. Turned it off ,if I was a doctor , and America my patient I would be advising it sorry but there is nothing more we can do, in the absence of a miracle you are going to suffer a painful sad death. You have a large orange topped tumour that is going to be extremely difficult to remove.

 

 

The 'official' Republican position is that Trump was cheated in the 2020 election.  In Congress last week, 147 Republican lawmakers voted against accepting the election results, and people like Jordan, Cruz, Rubio, and others repeat it at every opportunity.

 

A generation from now, if people discuss the 2020 election, Republicans will still maintain that Trump was cheated.

[Riccarton3]

22 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

The 'official' Republican position is that Trump was cheated in the 2020 election.  In Congress last week, 147 Republican lawmakers voted against accepting the election results, and people like Jordan, Cruz, Rubio, and others repeat it at every opportunity.

 

A generation from now, if people discuss the 2020 election, Republicans will still maintain that Trump was cheated.

Sound like Hibs fans

[Sharpie]

John you served in an area where as the result of an action against British territory the Falklands took place. Like the Capitol Building they were a small part of a greater entity. They were protected  by a well trained but because of no threat  small force.

 

Argentina invaded, humiliated Britain and its military, a sudden well planned, sufficient  personnell  and equipment,an Armada of Naval, Army, and Air Force was dispatched forthwith. The result was a successful recovery of the Falklands.  

 

The United States has to do the same with the rioters, incursionists, and secessionists. Of course an Armada such as Britain launched would be ridiculous, but the concept of strong trained efficient law enforcement personnel. well trained, well led, and with researched and implemented tactics should be utilised to confront head on these rebels against the accepted mores of the United States. I would think the National Guard, State Police, and City Police could provide the proper manpower. There may have to be some hurried legislation to make their activity legal, national and correct, but extreme as it is, in a normally reasonably behaved Country exceptional maladies sometimes require exceptional and unusual treatments.

 

 

[redjambo]

2 hours ago, Sharpie said:

 That whole Bush/Gore fiasco was settled reasonably amicably and without civic unrest because of the actions of Gore accepting the ultimate result. Good man , looking even better many years later.

 

Indeed. I remember at the time thinking "Why did you give up so easily?!". However, he did the statesman-like thing in deciding to admit defeat. He would probably have made a great President.

[SwindonJambo]

8 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Indeed. I remember at the time thinking "Why did you give up so easily?!". However, he did the statesman-like thing in deciding to admit defeat. He would probably have made a great President.

He graciously conceded to a wafer thin Electoral College defeat. Dump has gone down to a resounding defeat by  7 million votes in the popular vote and 232-306 in the Electoral College, not even close yet still can't concede. 

 

There is absolutely nothing remotely gracious about Trump. 

[CavySlaveJambo]

Chuck Schumer has just said that to recall senate it only needs the agreement of 2 Senators. The Majority and Minority Leaders. If that is the case what is Mitch McConnell doing except delaying the impeachment trial? 

[Seymour M Hersh]

50 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Indeed. I remember at the time thinking "Why did you give up so easily?!". However, he did the statesman-like thing in deciding to admit defeat. He would probably have made a great President.

 

 

That reads like a shite Hearts player either having left the club or on a long term injury. The longer he's away from the public eye on the pitch the better a player he becomes even although he's still shite.

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

 

That reads like a shite Hearts player either having left the club or on a long term injury. The longer he's away from the public eye on the pitch the better a player he becomes even although he's still shite.

 

No, I thought he was well suited to the job. Still do.

[Seymour M Hersh]

20 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

No, I thought he was well suited to the job. Still do.

 

The same Al Gore who in 2006 said we have ten years left before the earth cooks. Still he became a multi millionaire on the back of his debunked movie. 

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

No doubt in my mind that McConnell wanted this to be leaked.
 

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

.

..and so it begins. Very important that the House impeachment vote doesn’t happen purely along party lines. I’m guessing a dozen or so Republicans in the House will vote to impeach. Hopefully including my local Rep, Fred Upton, although he’s been pretty quiet on the topic.

 

[redjambo]

 

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

Next up: Liz Cheney, no. 3 Republican in the House (and Dick Cheney’s daughter) will vote to impeach.

[SwindonJambo]

1 minute ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

Next up: Liz Cheney, no. 3 Republican in the House (and Dick Cheney’s daughter) will vote to impeach.

Excellent. It sounds like there's a good chance of it happening. If so, then it's no post presidential perks, barred from ever holding office again, and with any luck, the rest of his life in prison. 

[Tazio]

I’m just watching the programme on ITV about last week. Some of the footage is amazing to say the least from a camera in the middle of the crowd. Never mind the archive footage from previous rallies. 
It never fails to baffle me when you see people in full battle gear carrying heavy arms yards from policemen. 

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

33 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

Excellent. It sounds like there's a good chance of it happening. If so, then it's no post presidential perks, barred from ever holding office again, and with any luck, the rest of his life in prison. 

Impeachment in the House will happen, it’s just a question of how many Republicans go along with it. Conviction in the Senate is a tougher stretch but we’ll see. But to be clear, impeachment doesn’t remove any post-presidential perks, only conviction by the Senate - and I’m not clear about what would happen in the scenario of a conviction that happens after Trump leaves office (Schumer is still pushing for a vote on this before Inauguration Day but McConnell would need to agree)

 

Anyway, here’s the final impeachment documents...

 

 

[J.T.F.Robertson]

6 hours ago, Sharpie said:

John you served in an area where as the result of an action against British territory the Falklands took place. Like the Capitol Building they were a small part of a greater entity. They were protected  by a well trained but because of no threat  small force.

 

Argentina invaded, humiliated Britain and its military, a sudden well planned, sufficient  personnell  and equipment,an Armada of Naval, Army, and Air Force was dispatched forthwith. The result was a successful recovery of the Falklands.  

 

The United States has to do the same with the rioters, incursionists, and secessionists. Of course an Armada such as Britain launched would be ridiculous, but the concept of strong trained efficient law enforcement personnel. well trained, well led, and with researched and implemented tactics should be utilised to confront head on these rebels against the accepted mores of the United States. I would think the National Guard, State Police, and City Police could provide the proper manpower. There may have to be some hurried legislation to make their activity legal, national and correct, but extreme as it is, in a normally reasonably behaved Country exceptional maladies sometimes require exceptional and unusual treatments.

 

 

 

Bob, hypothetically, how long do you think Britain would have suffered an Argentinian claim to say Orkney or Shetland?

Just saying.