U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Well one way or another either sooner or later the presidential powers are being removed. That's guaranteed. But that wont stop him continuing to incite insanity will it? And I think it's another guarantee that he will continue to do so if he can. 

And you have to think that there are rational people in the background who know this just can't go on. He has to be stopped. 

 

I think the Republican party will want shot of him as soon as he leaves office regardless of splits it may cause.  He is a cancer that will not help them either way.

 

My guess is that he will flee the country and room up with Edward Snowdon at the courtesy of his Russian buddies.

[Mikey1874]

9 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

That's pretty much it.  The American tech companies have more lax standards than, for example, the media in Ireland and the UK, but they still have some basic standards.  I've seen plenty of racists and homophobes being kicked off Twitter, and yet freedom of expression remains intact.

 

Twitter  confirmed yesterday that they have special rules for heads of state. Basically they can break the rules because it's in the public interest for people to see what they say. 

 

A little problematic for the anti free speech argument. 

[Mikey1874]

I would say that will definitely be the end of Trump in mainstream politics it he pardons the 'patriots'. 

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Twitter  confirmed yesterday that they have special rules for heads of state. Basically they can break the rules because it's in the public interest for people to see what they say. 

 

A little problematic for the anti free speech argument. 

 

That privilege will no longer sit with Trump after his suspension, so they can then terminate his accounts under their terms of use.

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

I would say that will definitely be the end of Trump in mainstream politics it he pardons the 'patriots'. 

I'm not sure it would, unless he can be legally stopped from running in the next election I think he'd get huge amounts of votes.

[John Gentleman]

40 minutes ago, RobboM said:

Genius.
Sadly it has since been deleted and DoJ has issued a statement denying its authenticity

Probably the FBI planting a honey trap. The dopes might fall for it too....

[Riccarton3]

I genuinely believe we are getting to the centre of the storm. It has been building for years with alt right's poison feeding fertile minds.

Unfortunately, many police departments in the US can't be relied on to act without fear or favour. Law enforcement is embattled and torn between duty and MAGA supporters. Chaos may result in a militarized situation. With the collapse of law and order - surely the neo Nazis (MAGA by another name)  ultimate aim without political success - recognised laws become obsolete, almost quaint, being replaced by military law. Who benefits ultimately from militarized law  in historical examples\precedence and how is it in turn replaced and by what?

[Beni]

27 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Twitter  confirmed yesterday that they have special rules for heads of state. Basically they can break the rules because it's in the public interest for people to see what they say. 

 

A little problematic for the anti free speech argument. 

 

There was an account tweeting what Trump tweeted word for word which has received multiple bans, which backs up what you've said.

But fomenting an insurrection is just one step too far, seems fair enough to me.

 

[JFK-1]

12 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Law enforcement is embattled and torn between duty and MAGA supporters. Chaos may result in a militarized situation. With the collapse of law and order - surely the neo Nazis (MAGA by another name)  ultimate aim without political success - recognised laws become obsolete, almost quaint, being replaced by military law.

 

Pretty much the very point i'm making when I say I can foresee them devising some way to take him down permanently. Who could have imagined such a situation say just 5 years ago during the Obama term?

Nobody. This catastrophic situation which can only get worse if he isn't silenced is entirely down to Trump. It's intolerable and he has to be stopped before it does get worse.

[Felix Lighter]

5 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Pretty much the very point i'm making when I say I can foresee them devising some way to take him down permanently. Who could have imagined such a situation say just 5 years ago during the Obama term?

Nobody. This catastrophic situation which can only get worse if he isn't silenced is entirely down to Trump. It's intolerable and he has to be stopped before it does get worse.

 

Who is them? It's already been suggested that he be impeached and locked up, so if that isn't enough to shut him up what would you suggest they do to take him down permanently?

[Sharpie]

 I never thought I would read a post anywhere that despite general complaints about the police or being a force the people can rely on. What I find even more incredible is that I totally agree with the sentiment, and have stated previously that j'accuse Trump and police union leaders.

 

I know and understand that I would say very few support my views of the woman who was killed, and I do so because this and other things are all indicative of the problem. My own life has been one of discipline. There were rules when I started school at 4 years old, because of when my birthday fell. When I worked in the garage the boss had his rules, when I went to the Guards Depot they had their rules and when I became a policeman they had their rules, this has created a rules orientated person. but in every one of those rule stating environmemts, I and others found ways to circumvent them, sometimes we were caught and further training was administered, some physical, some mental and some deprival of money or time off.   

 

Now I read newspapers or watch TV and there are not too many days when police misconduct is not reported at some level. The knee to the throat situation, use of unnecessary force, are common and also some of those who have done these things escape any form of discipline as a result of Union or Association defences.

 

Police are covered by rules, regulations and statutes, most possible situations are covered in these statutes, directives, in the case of the unarmed woman being shot I have doubts the shooting conforming with the rules of lethal action, I may be totally wrong I may be totally correct but until a Hearing or Trial is conducted and all evidence heard we will not know for sure the full story.   

 

A long way round to get to my point of agreement that the police cannot be relied on, American police have never had the reputation of the old British Bobby or the Canadian RCMP. They  by people like myself were often judged as slovenly, slouching in uniform, chewing gum, crude in their tactics of arrest. Now they seem to be protected by strong Unions and I suspect the Unions have become embroiled with Trump, they get no budget cuts, no reductions of staff, and he gets the best example for all ever, the lack of police preparation and action on 6th January 2021.

 

The opposite views on the woman shot between me and many  are quite extreme, but some are based on their opposition to the rioters, mine is not support for either, but is actually  emotional in a way as a policeman I have seen too many  wasted lives, in this case if there is evidence the shooting was justified so be it, if it is adjudged not so ergo. My main concern is that the police never be allowed to drop to the standards of those they are dealing with and a a result be seen as unreliable.

[JFK-1]

19 minutes ago, Felix Lighter said:

 

Who is them? It's already been suggested that he be impeached and locked up, so if that isn't enough to shut him up what would you suggest they do to take him down permanently?

 

Them is the establishment. The rational actors in a democracy. I don't know what they need to do to silence him. I don't know what's available to them. All I know is they need to do it somehow or he could completely destroy their society.

He's already started the process. If he isn't stopped he will simply become crazier and elevate the process. That's guaranteed. And given I know that they have to know it too.

[Des Lynam]

1 hour ago, Riccarton3 said:

I genuinely believe we are getting to the centre of the storm. It has been building for years with alt right's poison feeding fertile minds.

Unfortunately, many police departments in the US can't be relied on to act without fear or favour. Law enforcement is embattled and torn between duty and MAGA supporters. Chaos may result in a militarized situation. With the collapse of law and order - surely the neo Nazis (MAGA by another name)  ultimate aim without political success - recognised laws become obsolete, almost quaint, being replaced by military law. Who benefits ultimately from militarized law  in historical examples\precedence and how is it in turn replaced and by what?

The media both left and right have been hugely complicit in the situation we find ourselves in. 

[Felix Lighter]

2 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Them is the establishment. The rational actors in a democracy. I don't know what they need to do to silence him. I don't know what's available to them. All I know is they need to do it somehow or he could completely destroy their society.

He's already started the process. If he isn't stopped he will simply become crazier and elevate the process. That's guaranteed. And given I know that they have to know it too.

 

I imagine what is available to the establishment is the powers granted to them under the written constitution. They could, I suppose, come up with an amendment that enables them to use more draconian means of dealing with someone they disagree with. That though would be a sinister, slippery slope imo. I think it would be far more dangerous to have him viewed as some sort of martyr to 70 million+ supporters than it would be to leave him spouting on social media. I reckon once he is out Republicans will expend their energy putting the boot into Biden and Trump will become less relevant as time passes.  

[Weakened Offender]

3 hours ago, Norm said:

Apparently, he did taser himself and have a heart attack but it's unconfirmed if he tased himself in the nuts.

 

I think that's funny. 

[Riccarton3]

3 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

The media both left and right have been hugely complicit in the situation we find ourselves in. 

Both left and right in the media know the output of QAnon and neo-Nazis. But it is the right wing press that is more likely to have influence on those already on the Right? I think the Right wing media is then far more culpable in its often eye popping support of Trump never mind ignoring alt Right poison.

[Lovecraft]

Kicking Trump off social media is a bit of a power flex from those in control of it, and quite scary for freedom of speech, but.... and it's a huge but, if he doesn't have his voice removed, he will start an armed uprising.  The next time he gets a chance it will be a real call to arms.  The scary part is that in America they easily have access to guns and it would appear to be mostly right wing nutters that stockpile them.  Lot of Americans are just looking for an excuse to start a gunfight.

 

 

 

 

[Maple Leaf]

3 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

Through my German parentage, I’ve listened to my older relatives, no longer with us, talk about the regime that consumed them in the 1930s. 
They knew it had all gone horribly wrong, and the outcome inexcusable, but they had clearly been sucked in by the narrative of making Germany great again. Sound familiar?

The thing that most bothered me was that they, despite being ordinary, decent and respectful people, still seemed to have some aspects of the rhetoric rattling about in their heads. Occasionally a phrase or opinion might slip out that was met with some debate from the others.

Lovely people, to me, who had been damaged by a nutcase and his mob, who had used the hopes and aspirations of good people, to twist their poisonous narratives, to embed those thoughts into the heads of masses of people.

My cousins used to, and still do wonder, how their parents’ generation could have tolerated the Nazis. They know, however, that once power was given to those evil people, it was too late to be able to reverse the process, as fear of violence and reprisal was dominant.

My point here is, that people like Trump can put thoughts into good peoples heads, as well as get the expected support from the morons. It’s understandable that Trump has put thoughts into the heads of good Americans that they wouldn’t have had without him. The drip effect of constant lies and propaganda does it’s job over time. Thankfully, he lost the election before he could really create his own Reich, and the events of last week should, hopefully, provide a wake up call from the hypnotic effect felt by many, in thinking it was essential to believe in all of his distorted words and beliefs. 
It may take some time.

 

Interesting historical perspective.  The parallels between Hitler and Trump are quite striking.

 

We'll never know now, but I'm of the opinion that if Trump had won the 2020 election, he would have used the four years of his second term to campaign for a constitutional amendment that would allow him to run for a third term in 2024.  In other words, he would never have left the White House without a fight.

 

In the meantime, the shambles Trump has created will stay with America for a long time to come.  State and federal authorities will be lining up to charge him.  Right-wing media will be working hard to prove that the attempted coup was conducted, not by Trump supporters, but by leftists and antifa.  In the eyes of millions of Americans, Trump will be elevated to the status of persecuted martyr.  Hitler has been dead for 75 years, but there are still Americans who admire him.  And so it will be with Trump.

[Cade]

Islamic extremists get kicked off social media, locked up or deported when they call for uprisings.

Donald Trump should be treated the same way.

It's really that simple.

 

White folk are falling over themselves to cry free speech over this.

5 people are dead.

Gunfire in the Congress chamber.

Stockpiles of explosives and petrol bombs discovered in vehicles close by.

Participants openly saying they were there to overthrow the government and kill politicians.

 

FFS.

[Riccarton3]

8 minutes ago, Cade said:

Islamic extremists get kicked off social media, locked up or deported when they call for uprisings.

Donald Trump should be treated the same way.

It's really that simple.

 

White folk are falling over themselves to cry free speech over this.

5 people are dead.

Gunfire in the Congress chamber.

Stockpiles of explosives and petrol bombs discovered in vehicles close by.

Participants openly saying they were there to overthrow the government and kill politicians.

 

FFS.

Free Speech trolling, is it really anything  other than this, is a bit like the gun laws argument: the right to bear arms no matter how bad the death toll gets year on year. The actual fanaticism is stress inducing and its designed to stress the fabric of society.  It will need highly coordinated, consistent and determined activity to crush the cult.

[Sharpie]

The American system is behind the times for such a forward looking country in theory. Gun law as which I seem to recall are embedded since the days of anticipated attacks by the British. The right to armed protection and to defend by death. anyone trying to enter your home. Probably had a lot of worthiness in the 1700s where people lived in isolated areas, and again in the 1800's wild west. In the 2000's if the protection the citizen i paying through taxes isn't sufficient take action legally as a group and demand change, you would not go into a store and pay for something you don't receive. I spent most of my adult employment life one way or another armed, it is a high level of responsibility,  I don't see that in any of  the rioters armed with automatic weapons .  I am and have always been a high admirer of the United States of America, even when drinking beer with Americans some of whom were from the South and after a few wets, toasted every beer with the call "The South Shall Rise Again"

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

Islamic extremists get kicked off social media, locked up or deported when they call for uprisings.

Donald Trump should be treated the same way.

It's really that simple.

 

White folk are falling over themselves to cry free speech over this.

5 people are dead.

Gunfire in the Congress chamber.

Stockpiles of explosives and petrol bombs discovered in vehicles close by.

Participants openly saying they were there to overthrow the government and kill politicians.

 

FFS.

Does Guantanamo still deal with religious terrorists?

[redjambo]

A Truth Reckoning: Why We’re Holding Those Who Lied For Trump Accountable

https://www.forbes.com/sites/randalllane/2021/01/07/a-truth-reckoning-why-were-holding-those-who-lied-for-trump-accountable/?sh=5320b4ef5710

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Interesting historical perspective.  The parallels between Hitler and Trump are quite striking.

 

We'll never know now, but I'm of the opinion that if Trump had won the 2020 election, he would have used the four years of his second term to campaign for a constitutional amendment that would allow him to run for a third term in 2024.  In other words, he would never have left the White House without a fight.

 

In the meantime, the shambles Trump has created will stay with America for a long time to come.  State and federal authorities will be lining up to charge him.  Right-wing media will be working hard to prove that the attempted coup was conducted, not by Trump supporters, but by leftists and antifa.  In the eyes of millions of Americans, Trump will be elevated to the status of persecuted martyr.  Hitler has been dead for 75 years, but there are still Americans who admire him.  And so it will be with Trump.

[DETTY29]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

Islamic extremists get kicked off social media, locked up or deported when they call for uprisings.

Donald Trump should be treated the same way.

It's really that simple.

 

White folk are falling over themselves to cry free speech over this.

5 people are dead.

Gunfire in the Congress chamber.

Stockpiles of explosives and petrol bombs discovered in vehicles close by.

Participants openly saying they were there to overthrow the government and kill politicians.

 

FFS.

Freedom of press, freedom of expression, free speech, indeed all freedoms come with responsibility and as many can't be responsible we need laws and limitations (i.e rules and laws) in all aspects of our lives, otherwise you risk the Trumps of this world and where it leads.

Edited January 10, 2021 by DETTY29

[Jambo-Jimbo]

22 minutes ago, redjambo said:

A Truth Reckoning: Why We’re Holding Those Who Lied For Trump Accountable

https://www.forbes.com/sites/randalllane/2021/01/07/a-truth-reckoning-why-were-holding-those-who-lied-for-trump-accountable/?sh=5320b4ef5710

 

CNN have been having a real pop at Fox News all day, basically saying that them and other TV news channels that have spread Trump's lies for years should face some sort of reckoning for their part in all of this and whilst they have been careful not to single anyone out and name anyone in particular, the two clips they show are of Hannity & Carlson spouting their Trump pish.

 

There was a woman on this morning, who at the time of Trump's election win in 2016 was a Fox News Contributor, she said that even back then half of the news team privately called Trump a nutcase and unhinged, they knew back then that he was a nutter.

 

[Ulysses]

6 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Twitter  confirmed yesterday that they have special rules for heads of state. Basically they can break the rules because it's in the public interest for people to see what they say. 

 

A little problematic for the anti free speech argument. 

 

Twitter confirmed that before yesterday, and you'll recall that the courts have ruled at least once or twice that Donald Trump could not block people on Twitter on public interest grounds because he was using his personal account to conduct government business.

[Pasquale for King]

 

[Riccarton3]

10 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Extended youtube video of the protests, with the shooting at 35 minutes in.

 

 

Oh. Man. This is so feisty. This is surreal. Bro.

 

'You've just gotta stand down' (to the Police)

 

Then Jayden X goes kinda quiet. The bravado is on the wane. And you can start hearing them whining.

 

'I never thought I'd see someone get shot.'

 

The grey haired woman - Pelosi, we're coming for you, you traitorous ****!

 

Effectively a lynch mob, brainwashed with hate.

 

 

 

[Sharpie]

I just heard on the TV that Trump is heading to Alamo Texas to examine  to examine the progress of the Wall. Thats the Wall Mexico were going to pay for and was going to cover the full length of the Border. Do you think he might be going to ask Mexico for refugee status.😃

[gjcc]

5 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

I just heard on the TV that Trump is heading to Alamo Texas to examine  to examine the progress of the Wall. Thats the Wall Mexico were going to pay for and was going to cover the full length of the Border. Do you think he might be going to ask Mexico for refugee status.😃

No signor my name is Donaldo Trumpandez. 

[Captain Slog]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

 

Just watched this, never have i had so much respect for Arnie

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

 

Very good.

[John Findlay]

2 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

 

Should have ended that speech  with I'll be back.

[Pasquale for King]

23 minutes ago, Captain Slog said:

Just watched this, never have i had so much respect for Arnie

When he’s making sense you know there’s some strange things afoot. 

[frankblack]

Watching BBC News at 10.

 

Trump supporters saying left wing groups like Antifa infiltrated the group who stormed the capital.

 

**** me, how thick are these people?

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

Watching BBC News at 10.

 

Trump supporters saying left wing groups like Antifa infiltrated the group who stormed the capital.

 

**** me, how thick are these people?

 

[Riccarton3]

10 minutes ago, frankblack said:

Watching BBC News at 10.

 

Trump supporters saying left wing groups like Antifa infiltrated the group who stormed the capital.

 

**** me, how thick are these people?

 

lying, opportunist, conniving ********. Much like the guy they want

[Sooperstar]

51 minutes ago, frankblack said:

Watching BBC News at 10.

 

Trump supporters saying left wing groups like Antifa infiltrated the group who stormed the capital.

 

**** me, how thick are these people?

 

They've been claiming that since during the 'revolution' was going on. Not surprising really. They are the thickest people around. You'd like to think that the majority don't believe the shite they spout, but unfortunately that isn't the case.

[Horatio Caine]

7 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Interesting historical perspective.  The parallels between Hitler and Trump are quite striking.

 

We'll never know now, but I'm of the opinion that if Trump had won the 2020 election, he would have used the four years of his second term to campaign for a constitutional amendment that would allow him to run for a third term in 2024.  In other words, he would never have left the White House without a fight.

 

In the meantime, the shambles Trump has created will stay with America for a long time to come.  State and federal authorities will be lining up to charge him.  Right-wing media will be working hard to prove that the attempted coup was conducted, not by Trump supporters, but by leftists and antifa.  In the eyes of millions of Americans, Trump will be elevated to the status of persecuted martyr.  Hitler has been dead for 75 years, but there are still Americans who admire him.  And so it will be with Trump.

Absolutely.  And he would have tried to install a dynasty whereby family members would take over from him, consigning the States to decades of Trump rule.  

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Horatio Caine said:

Absolutely.  And he would have tried to install a dynasty whereby family members would take over from him, consigning the States to decades of Trump rule.  

Like the Eisenhower’s, Kennedy’s,Bush’s and Clinton’s? 

[Pasquale for King]

Hahahahaha 

 

[JFK-1]

11 hours ago, Felix Lighter said:

 

I imagine what is available to the establishment is the powers granted to them under the written constitution. They could, I suppose, come up with an amendment that enables them to use more draconian means of dealing with someone they disagree with. That though would be a sinister, slippery slope imo. I think it would be far more dangerous to have him viewed as some sort of martyr to 70 million+ supporters than it would be to leave him spouting on social media. I reckon once he is out Republicans will expend their energy putting the boot into Biden and Trump will become less relevant as time passes.  

 

When I speak of the establishment I don't necessarily mean just the government in power. It's everything including the law. I would be willing to bet there must be a whole catalogue of corruptive/criminal activity they could nail him on if they want to. Should he get away with that activity because he has a criminally active base?

Prior to the capitol incident Biden had expressed a reluctance to go after Trump. Presumably because it's a poor optic to go after a previous incumbent. But Trump has now proven to be so dangerous I feel they have little option.

As for Trump's cult like base I don't go for this you can't martyr him because that wont help line of thought. What wont help is leaving him at liberty to raise continual anarchy. A lot worse prospect than the alternative.

Edited January 11, 2021 by JFK-1

[JFK-1]

6 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

 

 

Great speech by Arnie, I will hazard a guess he didn't write that. Though probably had input. 

[Hansel]

58 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Hahahahaha 

 

GIRFUY

 

[Lovecraft]

22 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Great speech by Arnie, I will hazard a guess he didn't write that. Though probably had input. 

I'm gonna guess that Arnie had 0.00005% of that.

 

 

[Sharpie]

3 hours ago, Horatio Caine said:

Absolutely.  And he would have tried to install a dynasty whereby family members would take over from him, consigning the States to decades of Trump rule.  

 The parallels are exactly the same, I watched the travel guy on TV with a show about the German rise of Fascism. It also showed Mussolini, I mentioned way back during the 2016 campaign that many of his mannerisms were very Mussolini like, the turning the head to the left with the pursed lips and strong stare. The program I watched also mentioned Hitlers infrastruction works, and grand sports arenas, and of course the Autobahn which produced in its construction lot of jobs. Of course its main purpose was to provide a quick road route for troop and material  movement. Mussolini was also into building large expensive beautiful buildings. Hitler ended up a suicide, and Mussolini ended up with a crowd looking at his poor deid body hanging from a lamp post. Trump will be remembered like the two though history will place him with them in the worst leaders ever for their countries in history.

 

[Hansel]

11 hours ago, Lovecraft said:

Kicking Trump off social media is a bit of a power flex from those in control of it, and quite scary for freedom of speech, but.... and it's a huge but, if he doesn't have his voice removed, he will start an armed uprising.  The next time he gets a chance it will be a real call to arms.  The scary part is that in America they easily have access to guns and it would appear to be mostly right wing nutters that stockpile them.  Lot of Americans are just looking for an excuse to start a gunfight.

 

 

 

 

I'm just glad these guys in charge of social media weren't pro Trump. Can you imagine how ****ed the situation would be be if Zuckerberg et al had been sucked in by all of the lies?

[Lovecraft]

1 minute ago, Ted (Theodore) Logan said:

I'm just glad these guys in charge of social media weren't pro Trump. Can you imagine how ****ed the situation would be be if Zuckerberg et al had been sucked in by all of the lies?

I'm more concerned about how they influence the 2024 election TBH

 

Social media needs reined in quickly.

 

BUT......  It's already too late.

 

[Sharpie]

I just reread my last post its hard for me to believe I have been spouting on the Trump/Biden thread for four years. I am sure if there is a phsychiatrist on JKB he would have me certified with some of my statements and opinions, others who have been right along with me I am sure would/could swear to my utter contempt, diagnosis of mental illness,and just all around contempt fo the man. Of course they could also swear to my own possible head problems because of my irrational statements about one individual.