U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Hold on I thought, isn't Trump the head of the Government, but I got the distinct impression that these people don't see Trump as part of the Government, they see him as Trump who is fighting against the Government, in other words they see Trump as being above the Government above the establishment, and that is a cult, and it's clear that many of his supporters see him as their cult leader.

 

 

 

And if it wasn't him it would be some other useful idiot.

Trumps enablers should be looking at the long-drop too.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

10 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

 

And if it wasn't him it would be some other useful idiot.

Trumps enablers should be looking at the long-drop too.

 

Indeed, as long as Trump tells them what they want to hear they'll blindly follow him, until such time that either he dies or somebody else comes along.

[Cade]

Yesterday wasn't the end of something, it was the start of it.

 

Expect civil disobedience in every red state, starting with tax withholding.

 

 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

One of the Christian terrorists on CBS now blaming Antifa and Communists for the coup.

She's a deluded religious arsehole.

[Justin Z]

 

[Tazio]

I can’t be the only person focussing on the fact that Trump once again used the word fight in his half arsed statement about the handover? Because sure as hell his daft supporters will be. 

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

It would be great if this country could just close down the deranged cretins business interests over here. I don't think I despise any human being still alive on the planet more than Trump. 

[Justin Z]

3 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

As a Supporter of Scottish Independence and member of the SNP, I fully endorse this view, flag waving and patriotic marches are never a good idea.

 

Hmm, maybe we should do a thread on civic nationalism, since many anti-independence folks, unsatisfied with their lack of real arguments, like to use dishonest bait-and-switch tactics. They conflate Scottish Indy's civic nationalism with the white supremacist, alt-right nationalism at the root of Trump cult worship. Anyone can tell the difference with a little effort, but their desperation has made for some pretty outlandish yarns.

[Cade]

Iraq issues an arrest warrant for Donald J Trump on the charge of premeditated murder, in relation to the drone strike that killed General Soleimani.

This charge carries a death sentence by hanging.

 

 

[DETTY29]

It's not as if Scotland has had a major divisive election in recent times and once the result known, how either side would conduct themselves at a mass gathering.

Edited January 7, 2021 by DETTY29

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Trump say's that he's glad Loeffler & Purdue lost, why...........................because they didn't defend HIM enough.

 

It's all about him.

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Mike Mulvaney is the latest to resign.

[Francis Albert]

Ironic that yesterday's events in Washington happened on the same day as an article in the Guardian by a British, now New York based, columnist whose friends apparently now deride post-Brexit Britain as a third world country and that while Brits used to have some kudos in the States she was now ashamed of being British. Obviously believing that New York City is in some way representative of America. Or need her friends representative of New York City.

 

The Guardian plumbs new depths daily.

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

It's not as if Scotland has had a major divisive election in recent times and once the result known, how either side would conduct themselves at a mass gathering.

Which election was that? Can you provide evidence of any arrests or storming of buildings in Scotland? Any pipe bombs, weapons etc? Any huge gatherings not socially distanced? 

[Pasquale for King]

21 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Hmm, maybe we should do a thread on civic nationalism, since many anti-independence folks, unsatisfied with their lack of real arguments, like to use dishonest bait-and-switch tactics. They conflate Scottish Indy's civic nationalism with the white supremacist, alt-right nationalism at the root of Trump cult worship. Anyone can tell the difference with a little effort, but their desperation has made for some pretty outlandish yarns.

Indeed, they also seem to think that the British nationalism/separatism that fuelled Brexit is completely different. 

[Riccarton3]

9 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Mike Mulvaney is the latest to resign.

SFA boy?

[Justin Z]

9 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

We still have marches with too much focus on flags IMHO

 

Maybe, but whatever core problems there are, none of them is flags. In fact, one of the ways you can easily tell the difference is that when I've been to those marches, there have been flags of a hundred countries there, no exaggeration. Imagine what would happen to the poor ******* waving a Mexico flag around at one of these Trump banger rallies.

 

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Indeed, they also seem to think that the British nationalism/separatism that fuelled Brexit is completely different. 

 

Yeah, and likewise, imagine waving the flag of any other European nation at one of those rallies.

[DETTY29]

6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Which election was that? Can you provide evidence of any arrests or storming of buildings in Scotland? Any pipe bombs, weapons etc? Any huge gatherings not socially distanced? 

Once the Indy ref result both sides gathered in Glasgow.

 

Any public disorder wasn't by nationalists...as was alluded to that nationalst gatherings lead to public disorder.

 

Of course plenty unioinist gatherings don't lead to violence either in the UK.

Edited January 7, 2021 by DETTY29

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

 

Maybe, but whatever core problems there are, none of them is flags. In fact, one of the ways you can easily tell the difference is that when I've been to those marches, there have been flags of a hundred countries there, no exaggeration. Imagine what would happen to the poor ******* waving a Mexico flag around at one of these Trump banger rallies.

 

 

Yeah, and likewise, imagine waving the flag of any other European nation at one of those rallies.

Absolutely, a few Swastika or SS tattoos seem quite popular though 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️?!?!

[pablo]

I know,  imagine refusing to accept the result of democratic vote and marching on the HQ of a media outlet you felt didn't toe the line? 

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, DETTY29 said:

Once the Indy ref result both sides gathered in Glasgow.

 

Any public disorder wasn't by nationalists...as was alluded to that nationalst gatherings lead to public disorder.

 

Of course plenty unioinist gatherings don't lead to violence either in the UK.

Yeah your memory has gone, two lassies with Saltires as British Unionists caused problems. 
Can you see any Independence supporters in these photos? 
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/gallery/clashes-in-george-square-4290605

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/512958/George-Square-Scottish-independence-referendum-Yes-No

 

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2014/09/19/violence-in-glasgow-supporters-square-off/

 

 

Hows that proof of independence supporters violent protests or problems for police coming along?

 

[Justin Z]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah your memory has gone, two lassies with Saltires as British Unionists caused problems. 
Can you see any Independence supporters in these photos? 
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/gallery/clashes-in-george-square-4290605

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/512958/George-Square-Scottish-independence-referendum-Yes-No

 

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2014/09/19/violence-in-glasgow-supporters-square-off/

 

 

Hows that proof of independence supporters violent protests or problems for police coming along?

 

 

Mate he's just said the bother wasn't caused by nationalists, I took that to mean indy supporters since he separately referenced unionists later in the post.

[CavySlaveJambo]

They’re is an attempt to get an “Unexplained Wealth Order” against Trump here. 
 

Also this is scary. Trump could pardon everyone involved in storming the White House today.  Even without knowing their names 

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, pablo said:

I know,  imagine refusing to accept the result of democratic vote and marching on the HQ of a media outlet you felt didn't toe the line? 

 

 

Yeah was there any violence involved? 
The well known impartial BBC with the newly appointed Sunaks old boss Goldman Sachs Tory donor  🤣. 
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jan/07/richard-sharp-bbc-chair-may-be-a-tory-donor-but-it-could-be-far-worse

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Mate he's just said the bother wasn't caused by nationalists, I took that to mean indy supporters since he separately referenced unionists later in the post.

Here was me thinking he meant the guys with the Butchers Aprons, who he clearly doesn’t seem to understand are nationalists. 
Both sides didn’t gather either. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Pasquale for King

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, CavySlaveJambo said:

They’re is an attempt to get an “Unexplained Wealth Order” against Trump here. 
 

Also this is scary. Trump could pardon everyone involved in storming the White House today.  Even without knowing their names 

The SG have refused the Greens request to do this months ago, all his businesses all seem to make losses somehow so they don’t pay tax. 
 

I’m still trying to work out how you can pardon folk who haven’t been charged or convicted of a crime yet 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️🙈?!?!

 

He can also pardon the woman who was shot  clearly fuelled by his inane ramblings, but can’t bring her back. 

[Sharpie]

10 hours ago, CJGJ said:

It may not be your intention but this 'support' you seem to show for those demonstrating and storming the building is worrying

 

The waffle about 'pointed at the capitol building' is just what I'd expect from a Trump follower looking for any excuse....sorry but that is how you are coming over

 I accept you views and respect your right to publish them, but I cannot accept  your suggestion that I would support any actions of illegal violence. I was introduced to service to my Country and Citizens at age seventeen, served honorably s a soldier for three years ,at one stage on active service, defending our right to ownership and operation of a legally gained entity, I was all of eighteen in that armed conflict. I left that service to become a police officer, I served thirty six years in that service,  in that time had the good fortune to attend some of the professions highest regarded training facilities.  

 

When President Trump stated his intention to give a speech on 6 January, I commented on this forum that this could lead to violence, bloodshed, and possibly death. I was proved correct on all items. In later viewings of the news I saw comment and read items outlining the personnel that were being made available to the Washington DC authorities particularly the police. This included, National Guard, State and other police departments, F.B.I.

 

Yesterday I watched the march, I watched people actually climb walls  to get to the Building. I watched what are now being referred to as rioters enter that building which is being stated as the epitomy of Democracy being entered almost unimpeded by a mob. I even saw at one stage where building employees were removing tables to allow access. What I did not see at any stage was police activity or the deployment of any of the numbers that were available for deployment, that did not come until the later enforcement by riot gear clad of an order to move people out of the area.  

 

My comments about the Building employees was not in support of rioters, but a criticism of lack of police resources to deny access to the building to prevent entry. I cannot understand why with the resources that were allegedly made available protection of the Building was left to non uniformed personnel pointing firearms at a window possibly with intent of  opening lethal fire at persons who up to this time had not indicated a possession of lethal weapons. In fact an unarmed woman had been shot it turned out fatally a shot time earlier.

 

My experience and training made me consider what I could see going on, my point was not in support of the rioters, on the contrary but was in total dismay as a former police manager that entry to  sacred building was so simple by a mob. 

 

I normally would take great exception to your suggestion that I would in any way support perpetrators of any   act of violence acting in an illegal manner, but I m prepared to accept what I would hope is an erroneous opinion of my comments and belief that in my stage of life I would defend, support or otherwise condone, support, or agree with law breaking hooligans.

[Cade]

Anyone attempting to in any way equate the events of yesterday with Scottish independence rallies is either a wind up merchant or an idiot.

[Auld Reekin']

5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Indeed, they also seem to think that the British nationalism/separatism that fuelled Brexit is completely different. 

 

* Sigh *  We've been through this before... It's a very simple and easy-to-remember formula, so please try to do so and allow the debate to move on (or, better still, cease forthwith):

 

Right-wing, xenophobic, narrow-minded, separatist British nationalism =

Absolutely top-notch and simply spiffing. Tally-ho chaps!  (GOOD)   

 

Centre-left, inclusive, outward-looking, Scottish nationalism / independence campaign =

Disgraceful, divisive, deplorable, and damaging.  (Very, very, BAD indeed)   

[Boof]

Am I right in thinking that if the processes for implementation of the 25th Amendment get started then Pence takes over the Presidential duties until the process is completed?

 

If so that could be a way of keeping the bloated, orange buffoon's fingers out of things until Biden's inauguration.

[Pans Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Auld Reekin' said:

 

* Sigh *  We've been through this before... It's a very simple and easy-to-remember formula, so please try to do so and allow the debate to move on (or, better still, cease forthwith):

 

Right-wing, xenophobic, narrow-minded, separatist British nationalism =

Absolutely top-notch and simply spiffing. Tally-ho chaps!  (GOOD)   

 

Centre-left, inclusive, outward-looking, Scottish nationalism / independence campaign =

Disgraceful, divisive, deplorable, and damaging.  (Very, very, BAD indeed)   

This is correct (it seems).

[Mikey1874]

There wasn't proper policing at and around the entrance to the building.

 

But there was proper security protecting the politicians. It was that security that set a line not to cross.

 

Which the protestor killed tried to cross. 

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, Auld Reekin' said:

 

* Sigh *  We've been through this before... It's a very simple and easy-to-remember formula, so please try to do so and allow the debate to move on (or, better still, cease forthwith):

 

Right-wing, xenophobic, narrow-minded, separatist British nationalism =

Absolutely top-notch and simply spiffing. Tally-ho chaps!  (GOOD)   

 

Centre-left, inclusive, outward-looking, Scottish nationalism / independence campaign =

Disgraceful, divisive, deplorable, and damaging.  (Very, very, BAD indeed)   

Some seem to have wilfully forgot. 

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, Boof said:

Am I right in thinking that if the processes for implementation of the 25th Amendment get started then Pence takes over the Presidential duties until the process is completed?

 

If so that could be a way of keeping the bloated, orange buffoon's fingers out of things until Biden's inauguration.

It seems Pence is already running things. It looks like nothing will happen though as it says up there 👆. 
I suppose it’s understandable that they might not want to convene again considering what happened yesterday. 

[ri Alban]

American news please. 

[Francis Albert]

16 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

 I accept you views and respect your right to publish them, but I cannot accept  your suggestion that I would support any actions of illegal violence. I was introduced to service to my Country and Citizens at age seventeen, served honorably s a soldier for three years ,at one stage on active service, defending our right to ownership and operation of a legally gained entity, I was all of eighteen in that armed conflict. I left that service to become a police officer, I served thirty six years in that service,  in that time had the good fortune to attend some of the professions highest regarded training facilities.  

 

When President Trump stated his intention to give a speech on 6 January, I commented on this forum that this could lead to violence, bloodshed, and possibly death. I was proved correct on all items. In later viewings of the news I saw comment and read items outlining the personnel that were being made available to the Washington DC authorities particularly the police. This included, National Guard, State and other police departments, F.B.I.

 

Yesterday I watched the march, I watched people actually climb walls  to get to the Building. I watched what are now being referred to as rioters enter that building which is being stated as the epitomy of Democracy being entered almost unimpeded by a mob. I even saw at one stage where building employees were removing tables to allow access. What I did not see at any stage was police activity or the deployment of any of the numbers that were available for deployment, that did not come until the later enforcement by riot gear clad of an order to move people out of the area.  

 

My comments about the Building employees was not in support of rioters, but a criticism of lack of police resources to deny access to the building to prevent entry. I cannot understand why with the resources that were allegedly made available protection of the Building was left to non uniformed personnel pointing firearms at a window possibly with intent of  opening lethal fire at persons who up to this time had not indicated a possession of lethal weapons. In fact an unarmed woman had been shot it turned out fatally a shot time earlier.

 

My experience and training made me consider what I could see going on, my point was not in support of the rioters, on the contrary but was in total dismay as a former police manager that entry to  sacred building was so simple by a mob. 

 

I normally would take great exception to your suggestion that I would in any way support perpetrators of any   act of violence acting in an illegal manner, but I m prepared to accept what I would hope is an erroneous opinion of my comments and belief that in my stage of life I would defend, support or otherwise condone, support, or agree with law breaking hooligans.

The scenes were as I alluded to before reminiscent of scenes in third world countries or countries where democracy has very shallow roots. It is not as if the US authorities lack experience of dealing with riots and violent demonstrations.

[I P Knightley]

35 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

 I accept you views and respect your right to publish them, but I cannot accept  your suggestion that I would support any actions of illegal violence. I was introduced to service to my Country and Citizens at age seventeen, served honorably s a soldier for three years ,at one stage on active service, defending our right to ownership and operation of a legally gained entity, I was all of eighteen in that armed conflict. I left that service to become a police officer, I served thirty six years in that service,  in that time had the good fortune to attend some of the professions highest regarded training facilities.  

 

When President Trump stated his intention to give a speech on 6 January, I commented on this forum that this could lead to violence, bloodshed, and possibly death. I was proved correct on all items. In later viewings of the news I saw comment and read items outlining the personnel that were being made available to the Washington DC authorities particularly the police. This included, National Guard, State and other police departments, F.B.I.

 

Yesterday I watched the march, I watched people actually climb walls  to get to the Building. I watched what are now being referred to as rioters enter that building which is being stated as the epitomy of Democracy being entered almost unimpeded by a mob. I even saw at one stage where building employees were removing tables to allow access. What I did not see at any stage was police activity or the deployment of any of the numbers that were available for deployment, that did not come until the later enforcement by riot gear clad of an order to move people out of the area.  

 

My comments about the Building employees was not in support of rioters, but a criticism of lack of police resources to deny access to the building to prevent entry. I cannot understand why with the resources that were allegedly made available protection of the Building was left to non uniformed personnel pointing firearms at a window possibly with intent of  opening lethal fire at persons who up to this time had not indicated a possession of lethal weapons. In fact an unarmed woman had been shot it turned out fatally a shot time earlier.

 

My experience and training made me consider what I could see going on, my point was not in support of the rioters, on the contrary but was in total dismay as a former police manager that entry to  sacred building was so simple by a mob. 

 

I normally would take great exception to your suggestion that I would in any way support perpetrators of any   act of violence acting in an illegal manner, but I m prepared to accept what I would hope is an erroneous opinion of my comments and belief that in my stage of life I would defend, support or otherwise condone, support, or agree with law breaking hooligans.

It can't just be JKB that identified the threat of disorder from Trump's earlier calls to arms. The failure to have a sizeable force on hand to defend the Capitol is negligence at best.

 

I can't tell who the guys are who looked like polis, carrying sidearms and night sticks but I'm guessing that they are security guards for the Capitol building itself; possibly lacking sufficient training to handle such an incursion. In the clips posted here, you can see them walking in ahead of the rioters, seeming to try to reason with them and (sensibly, in my view) refraining from drawing their weapons.

 

Somebody earlier posted a picture of the Mall Cop to compare to the policing of the BLM protests. That's exactly what it looked like. As I say, negligence at best but I fear something more sinister prevented there being a more serious and secure force posted given the heads up we'd all had.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Riccarton3 said:

SFA boy?

 

Your thinking of Mike Mulraney and no it's not him.

[Riccarton3]

Security situation reminded me of the Godfather where Vito is on hospital....

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

33 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

It seems Pence is already running things. It looks like nothing will happen though as it says up there 👆. 
I suppose it’s understandable that they might not want to convene again considering what happened yesterday. 

 

The Pentagon released a list of it's chain of command last night and Pence was on the list but Trump wasn't on it.

 

They were saying on CNN that they know for a fact that members of the cabinet have been bypassing and sidelining Trump for some time now, Jim Mattis was keeping things from Trump.

 

[Pasquale for King]

21 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

It can't just be JKB that identified the threat of disorder from Trump's earlier calls to arms. The failure to have a sizeable force on hand to defend the Capitol is negligence at best.

 

I can't tell who the guys are who looked like polis, carrying sidearms and night sticks but I'm guessing that they are security guards for the Capitol building itself; possibly lacking sufficient training to handle such an incursion. In the clips posted here, you can see them walking in ahead of the rioters, seeming to try to reason with them and (sensibly, in my view) refraining from drawing their weapons.

 

Somebody earlier posted a picture of the Mall Cop to compare to the policing of the BLM protests. That's exactly what it looked like. As I say, negligence at best but I fear something more sinister prevented there being a more serious and secure force posted given the heads up we'd all had.

If they have insufficient training in dealing with this kind of thing, what have they been trained to do? 
As you say it’s a massive failure on the part of whoever was in charge, considering how well prepared they were for other events is why questions have been asked. 

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Pasquale for King

[Pasquale for King]

This is our 1776 ffs 🙈. 

[DETTY29]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Here was me thinking he meant the guys with the Butchers Aprons, who he clearly doesn’t seem to understand are nationalists. 
Both sides didn’t gather either. 

There was a post alluding that if you allow nationalists to converge there will be bother in terms of violence.  It was clear imo that was aimed at Scottish Indy supporters.

 

At the end of the last Indy Ref both sides gathered in Glasgow.

 

The trouble from any at the gatherings came from the pro union side, no doubt on the whole, knuckle dragging Rangers supporting twats.

 

Imagine if the result was the other way. 

 

But, for balance, I recognised that, if we speak on UK terms, some unionist organisations can gather too, without causing bother as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DETTY29]

Trump deletes tweets in lead up to 12 hour suspension expiry.

 

Can't live without Twitter.

 

Well Twitter what have you learned overnight....

[Justin Z]

2 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

The trouble from any at the gatherings came from the pro union side, no doubt on the whole, knuckle dragging Rangers supporting twats.

 

Imagine if the result was the other way. 

 

But, for balance, I recognised that, if we speak on UK terms, some unionist organisations can gather too, without causing bother as well.

 

Absolutely fair.

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, DETTY29 said:

There was a post alluding that if you allow nationalists to converge there will be bother in terms of violence.  It was clear imo that was aimed at Scottish Indy supporters.

 

At the end of the last Indy Ref both sides gathered in Glasgow.

 

The trouble from any at the gatherings came from the pro union side, no doubt on the whole, knuckle dragging Rangers supporting twats.

 

Imagine if the result was the other way. 

 

But, for balance, I recognised that, if we speak on UK terms, some unionist organisations can gather too, without causing bother as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I still can’t find any proof that both sides were there, just two lassies with Saltires. 
It was aimed at Indy supporters without any proof, but unfortunately other types of nationalists do cause problems wherever they go. 
I usually take a brolly, gloves and a hat. 

[PortyJambo]

 

😭 😭

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Trump deletes tweets in lead up to 12 hour suspension expiry.

 

Can't live without Twitter.

 

Well Twitter what have you learned overnight....

Ban is up around now, CNN saying he can’t run in 2024 without using his main vehicle of connecting with his base. 
Surely a chat show on RT is the way to go for failed pervy demigods?!?!

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, PortyJambo said:

 

😭 😭

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, PortyJambo said:

 

😭 😭