U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[Ron Burgundy]

9 hours ago, ri Alban said:

I find it strange that people take great delight seeing a man who fights a stutter and has been through endless family heartbreak making the odd mistake or mishap. And is described as not mentally fit, yet don't seem to see the psychopath in Donald Trump. 

It is possible to hate both Trump and Sniffy Biden.

Like hating Bojo and Wee Nic in equal measures is possible as well.

[XB52]

7 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

Too much is made of Biden's let's say lack of sprightliness. He's in his late 70's FFS, it's not uncommon. And I don't recall any of the fans of the orange halfwit making a big deal of it when Trump couldn't negotiate a ramp, he's only a couple of years behind Biden and a fat ****.

 

In addition the vast majority of people half his age would stumble over a speech frequently, not everybody is a great public speaker but that's not at the core of what we hire them for.

 

The purpose of Biden is to use his vast knowledge to negotiate through all manner of problems in the most expedient manner. He could do that even if he couldn't talk at all. And I trust his judgement when it comes to decisions that can effect not just Americans but all of us.

 

I'm not kept awake at night worrying about Biden's lack of bike riding skills, I have been kept awake at night over the thought of what might be happening right now in Ukraine if that witless semi literate orange buffoon had stolen that election. 

I'm sorry but Biden isn't competent enough to be president. Yes he is a million miles better than Trump but surely, in a country of 350 million people, they can find better

[Maple Leaf]

Here we are in 2022 and the Supreme Court of the United States will be issuing new judgements this week, probably in the following areas;

 

Turn the clock back 50 years on the right of American women to a safe abortion.

Strike down a NY state law that restricts the carrying of a concealed weapon.

Make it easier to introduce religion (ie Christianity) into public schools.

Limit the EPA's ability to regulate carbon emissions.

 

Normally these judgements are released in a public setting, but this year they will be done via the internet as the Justices are in fear of their lives following threats.

 

The conservatives are ruling the roost, and will do so for the foreseeable future. 

 

 

[J.T.F.Robertson]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

 

 

Loved Bernie and after that, even moreso. (if only ..... )

 

[Cade]

Texas Republican Party formally adopts The Big Lie as party policy.

Also deems any non-straight relationship as "abnormal".

 

 

[Riccarton3]

45 minutes ago, Cade said:

Texas Republican Party formally adopts The Big Lie as party policy.

Also deems any non-straight relationship as "abnormal".

 

 

Sad ****ers

[Maple Leaf]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

Texas Republican Party formally adopts The Big Lie as party policy.

Also deems any non-straight relationship as "abnormal".

 

 

 

Texas Republicans are the people who can hear about schoolchildren being massacred in their own state, and think that they have nothing more to do about it than offer thoughts and prayers.

 

They're the ones who are abnormal.

[The Real Maroonblood]

18 hours ago, ri Alban said:

 

Great stuff from Bernie.

[JFK-1]

On 17/06/2022 at 16:15, Led Tasso said:

The only hope is to make the charges so blatantly awful that ordinary GOP voters who haven't totally gone MAGA zombie have their stomachs turn, which is difficult when the entire conservative news apparatus is doing its damnedest to ignore the whole proceedings.

 

Did you read the Atlantic magazine article I posted? Everything in the Trump universe revolves around the big lie,and supporting it. The support for it is crumbling as the article demonstrates.

 

I was thinking there have to be people in positions of power who know the biggest problem here is Trump. Trump has dragged the GOP into an all out world of crazy populated by conspiracy nuts.

 

It's developing into a situation If they could take down Trump it's likely even the majority of GOP politicians would breathe a sigh of relief. McConnell would, and Cheney would be back in favour in the GOP.

 

And the country would have a better chance of easing back to some degree of normalcy. Liz Cheney etc., they know that.

If this were a court case the defence could already have rested and be confident of a conviction.

 

This guy is already  beyond beyond any reasonable doubt guilty as sin of so many crimes I can't count them all.

 

Up to and including a plot to somehow by hook or by crook take Mike Pence out of the picture. After Pence had refused to to be the fall guy in this attempted coup.

 

Evidence presented today demonstrated a plot to infiltrate the ballot with something like 100 fake electors. I think they're going to get back to that tomorrow. And I still predict they will save something big for last.

 

And incidentally, a new poll said that 60% of Americans already think Trump should be charged with criminal conspiracy. Among other things, presumably a major reason being he and others are so plainly guilty.

 

Trump’s Secret Plot Exposed?: Jan. 6 Panel Points To Trump In Fake Electors Scheme

 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by JFK-1

[JFK-1]

Trump Criminal Charges? Majority Of Americans Say He Should Be Indicted And Not Just Democrats

 

After evidence presented by the Jan. 6 committee during its public hearings showed Donald Trump knew he lost the election and still tried to steal it, nearly 60 percent of Americans believe Trump should be criminally charged, according to an ABC News/Ipsos poll.

 

In a major shift, the number of Republicans who think Trump is criminally liable has roughly doubled from April to June. Now, Trump is saying Kevin McCarthy was “foolish” to largely cancel the GOP out of the hearings.

 

MSNBC’s Ari Melber is joined by former Watergate prosecutor Jill Wine-Banks to discuss the evidence against Trump.

 

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

5 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Did you read the Atlantic magazine article I posted? Everything in the Trump universe revolves around the big lie,and supporting it. The support for it is crumbling as the article demonstrates.

 

I was thinking there have to be people in positions of power who know the biggest problem here is Trump. Trump has dragged the GOP into an all out world of crazy populated by conspiracy nuts.

 

It's developing into a situation If they could take down Trump it's likely even the majority of GOP politicians would breathe a sigh of relief. McConnell would, and Cheney would be back in favour in the GOP.

 

And the country would have a better chance of easing back to some degree of normalcy. Liz Cheney etc., they know that.

If this were a court case the defence could already have rested and be confident of a conviction.

 

This guy is already  beyond beyond any reasonable doubt guilty as sin of so many crimes I can't count them all.

 

Up to and including a plot to somehow by hook or by crook take Mike Pence out of the picture. After Pence had refused to to be the fall guy in this attempted coup.

 

Evidence presented today demonstrated a plot to infiltrate the ballot with something like 100 fake electors. I think they're going to get back to that tomorrow. And I still predict they will save something big for last.

 

And incidentally, a new poll said that 60% of Americans already think Trump should be charged with criminal conspiracy. Among other things, presumably a major reason being he and others are so plainly guilty.

 

Trump’s Secret Plot Exposed?: Jan. 6 Panel Points To Trump In Fake Electors Scheme

 

 

 

You are continuing to assume that sufficient democratic illegitimacy is sufficient to undermine the GOP, when they are rather blatantly continuing to try to constrain democratic (small D intentional there) control of government in an effort to stay in power as their popularity continues to decline. For instance, the GOP is utterly dominant in Mississippi politics, but should at best be a narrow plurality party if not a minority party if Black voting was not so suppressed.

 

For all of the US's bold talk of democracy, the US as a whole has a pretty undemocratic history with our suppression of minority votes, as well as with the weird highly unproportionate representation in the Senate.

 

This is why Manchin and Sinema's refusal to support voting rights legislation is so infuriating. If we could actually pass pro-democracy reforms, Trumpism would be a fringe movement. It's both the historical quirks of the US system combined with active anti-democratic action by the GOP that keeps it relevant. And all the MSNBC videos that approximately .5% of the country is watching won't change that a bit.

 

I'm not fatalist or defeatest about this—the committee hearings absolutely help drive home what some of us already knew but not everyone tuned into. And the Democratic party has some of its best candidates in key races that I can remember, including Warnock, Abrams, Fetterman, Beasley, Booker, O'Rourke, and so on. But it's not enough that people don't like Trumpism. They still have to turn out to vote and to vote for Democrats. And with the antidemocratic headwinds the GOP have put in, that's going to take a lot of work.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

On 20/06/2022 at 09:07, Ron Burgundy said:

It is possible to hate both Trump and Sniffy Biden.

Like hating Bojo and Wee Nic in equal measures is possible as well.

 

23 hours ago, XB52 said:

I'm sorry but Biden isn't competent enough to be president. Yes he is a million miles better than Trump but surely, in a country of 350 million people, they can find better

 

I am not a huge fan of Biden by any means but to make an equivalence between the two of them is absolutely and completely absurd. It's like saying you don't like dying of COVID or having an itchy rash on your bum in the same sentence—it can be technically true but it sounds absurd.

 

Biden isn't failing mentally. His verbal stumbles have been around since the 80s, and all this is just more of that ridiculous "Hilary conquers the stairs" crap from 2016. What's becoming increasingly obvious is that the Presidency is frankly too difficult a job for anyone to do very well, but which is far too easy for someone to do badly or corruptly. If the Democrats pick up a few Senate seats and hold onto the House, and pass more of Biden's agenda, he'll have a decent argument to be the best President of my lifetime, and I'm 46.

 

FWIW, in that time span, the most decent, thoughtful, intelligent, caring person to be President was undoubtedly Jimmy Carter, and the office at him alive.

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

 

 

I am not a huge fan of Biden by any means but to make an equivalence between the two of them is absolutely and completely absurd. It's like saying you don't like dying of COVID or having an itchy rash on your bum in the same sentence—it can be technically true but it sounds absurd.

 

Biden isn't failing mentally. His verbal stumbles have been around since the 80s, and all this is just more of that ridiculous "Hilary conquers the stairs" crap from 2016. What's becoming increasingly obvious is that the Presidency is frankly too difficult a job for anyone to do very well, but which is far too easy for someone to do badly or corruptly. If the Democrats pick up a few Senate seats and hold onto the House, and pass more of Biden's agenda, he'll have a decent argument to be the best President of my lifetime, and I'm 46.

 

FWIW, in that time span, the most decent, thoughtful, intelligent, caring person to be President was undoubtedly Jimmy Carter, and the office at him alive.

Is Jimmy's foundation still building houses for the less well off?

[Watt-Zeefuik]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Is Jimmy's foundation still building houses for the less well off?

 

Two different things, I think. The Carter Center continues to be one of the better US-based NGOs for promoting peace around the world. Habitat for Humanity isn't his org, but at age 95 he was still out raising money for them and hammering nails.

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Two different things, I think. The Carter Center continues to be one of the better US-based NGOs for promoting peace around the world. Habitat for Humanity isn't his org, but at age 95 he was still out raising money for them and hammering nails.

👍

[Sharpie]

On 20/06/2022 at 06:48, XB52 said:

I'm sorry but Biden isn't competent enough to be president. Yes he is a million miles better than Trump but surely, in a country of 350 million people, they can find better

 That is exactly how I feel, during the election I was in favor of Biden because I was so anti Trump. But I do have a considerable disappointment in Biden, I think he is a well meaning inividual but having been through his pesent age stage I can say without contradiction that we do not think, act, react  in a manner that is conducive to being a well publicised person such as President. Joe is too old, he was too old when he stood for the job and it is showing more now, no doubt exemplified by the demands of the position. He will have to finish his term but he should already be handing over more of his duties to his V.P. I would offer a guess that if Trump runs anyone standing as President from the Democrats can win, but if there is a different candidate the Dems will struggle

 

 

[JFK-1]

On 21/06/2022 at 20:34, Sharpie said:

 That is exactly how I feel, during the election I was in favor of Biden because I was so anti Trump. But I do have a considerable disappointment in Biden, I think he is a well meaning inividual but having been through his pesent age stage I can say without contradiction that we do not think, act, react  in a manner that is conducive to being a well publicised person such as President. Joe is too old, he was too old when he stood for the job and it is showing more now, no doubt exemplified by the demands of the position. He will have to finish his term but he should already be handing over more of his duties to his V.P. I would offer a guess that if Trump runs anyone standing as President from the Democrats can win, but if there is a different candidate the Dems will struggle

 

 

 

So say some young cops came to you asking for advice from your vast experience. You think your age would make you incapable of beneficially guiding them?

[JFK-1]

Imagine flipping this and say it was Obama the committee were investigating. And producing exactly the same evidence they are now even with all the same characters aside from Obama replacing Trump.

 

Fox 'news', it's not a news source though tens of millions treat it as such, are the only network not covering the hearings. At all. Don't know if they even mention it.

 

Think about that, a channel with "news" in it's title isn't covering the biggest trial of the century and further in all American history.  And that's what this, it's a trial though this court can bring no charges.

 

They're publicly trying Trump and they're doing a fantastic job of it, better than I could have imagined. But in saying that the evidence they have been given is a prosecutors dream.

 

And this major "news" network isn't covering it?  Imagine BBC news had declined to cover the Falklands war. Not even speak about it.

 

This is an incredible situation and to my mind perfectly demonstrates what they really are and what they are is an entity at the heart of creating this political/societal crisis paralyzing the US at this very minute.

 

In the alternate reality scenario I introduced above, swapping Trump to Obama, Tucker Carlson and Fox in total would be all over it like a rash.

 

And being even more incredulous than the rest of us currently are at the irrefutable and absolutely damning evidence.

 

Trump was knowingly executing a criminal coup with multiple threads that ultimately cost human life and could have resulted in the death of a VP.

 

Some highly respected commentators are now predicting Trump is likely to be charged. Presumably initially with just something, rather than trying to cover the broad scope of his crimes. A start.

 

These commentators think that the fake electors scam will be the trigger for the DOJ. They have to act now, if they don't any public perception of justice in this country is irreparably damaged.

 

Another thing the commentators are predicting is that Trump will try to throw the lawyer Eastman under the bus, and wriggle out of it by claiming he truly believed it was all above board.

 

Everything, including the stolen election lie, which right now he is still punting at his yahoo rallies and still collecting millions on it.

 

While the committee is demonstrating beyond reasonable doubt he knew everything was a load of shit, but he ran with it anyway in an attempt to steal an election. The irony.

 

They're saying he wont wriggle out of it like that though I would bet he will still try to. Trump has got away with saying black is white all his life and just expecting people to believe it but that wont fly in a court scenario.

 

There's apparently something called willful ignorance the law recognises as guilty behaviour and Trump will be nailed by it. The lawyer Eastman will probably go to jail, likely Rudy Giuliani too.

 

Trump they think very possibly though it's recognised as a tricky situation. Unprecedented, and hopefully never duplicated. What do you do with something like that? This guy knows shit.

 

And a thought just occurred to me. I would expect Trump if he thought jail time were a real possibility to attempt to flee since if he gets jail time for this he's going to die in prison.

 

If he could get out to someplace he would be out of US jurisdiction and still living comfortably on a golf course. His best pal Putin would take him and give him all that in a heartbeat, what a coup for Vlad if a scenario like that played out.

 

But in theorising all that I don't see how someone like Trump could carry out an an exit. Must be agents around him at all times. More than Trump would have to be in on it. And that would appear difficult.

 

Also, if Trump were canned in at least some fashion, even if they put him in a luxurious island golf course in Florida. Tell him if he ever leaves it he's going to real prison. Murdoch should also be joining him on that island.

 

Fox is the major factor in creating an environment ripe for Trump to exploit. They had been introducing obvious utter bullshit as "news" for years before Trump.

 

Trump unleashed Fox to yet another level of detachment from reality and another level of societal disruption. And just like Trump and co they too know it's not true but still run with it.

 

They aren't running with the hearings because the evidence is impossible to refute, Trump is obviously guilty even before proceedings are done. And while I don't watch or read anything from Fox unless another broadcaster mentions it I think they too, like Trump right now, are still backing the big lie.

 

The commentators I mentioned before think Trump is doing great damage to his case by continuing with this 100% demonstrable lie. If that's so shouldn't the same reasoning be applied to Murdoch?

 

If he wanted it to be covered, no matter what Tucker Carlson wanted, they would run it. And they would run it with any core response Murdoch decided on.

 

Unlike Trump who gets some of his craziest shit from the fringe internet and various nutcases Murdoch actually is a smart guy and the core message always comes from him. All his own work.

 

Some legal framework is required to cover this shit, make illegal this blatant and extremely damaging denial of indisputable reality. They let religions way with that, fair enough, but it can't extend to this faux news network creating this societal disturbance that could at worst result in civil war.

 

There would be complaints that it was some sort of tyrannical government overreach limiting freedom of speech, but in reality they wouldn't be the first advanced and liberal nation to outlaw a denial of indisputable reality.

 

It's illegal in Germany to deny the holocaust and I think in some other European countries too. For obvious reasons, it's a deliberately malicious attempt to negate an indisputable fact which is detrimental and slanderous to an entire group of people every single one of whom probably lost most if not all the people they knew. Friends and family.

 

This Murdoch directed attack on societal cohesion and sheer sanity is like an American holocaust with a blatant denial of the indisputable truth that it's even happening at all.

 

I'm hoping Trump is convicted, because for just one thing if he isn't the democracy is irreparably damaged, and for another it will give the green light to others and perhaps even Trump again that you can do anything, criminal or not, and get away with it. So why not try to execute a coup. Gotta get it right once. Simply try and try again.

 

And that's exactly what will happen at the next presidential election if this isn't knocked on the head, if the GOP were still Trump beheld they would again say, even before the election, that it's going to be rigged.

 

Then win or lose maintain it was still rigged anyway, Trump won in 2016 and decaled both before and after that it was rigged. And if people like that did get the presidency imagine the chaos come the next election, and even more chaos if they lose while again maintaining it's rigged. And firing up the Fox crazies and the MAGA cult.

 

I think there are smart people on that committee and outside it who know something has to be done or this will continue till ir becomes catastrophic. As a suggestion making illegal denial of the fact Biden won the election, denial of this American holocaust.

 

This committee has over a year meticulously collated a mountain of evidence we're being introduced to, what they gathered is vast. We're seeing just significant factors of their trial of Trump. They have vastly more than we will see even when the committee ends.

 

But that vast trove will be meticulously pored over by DOJ prosecutors, you can be guaranteed of that. I feel the committee has from the outset focused on getting Trump out of the equation, they pretty much said it on day one.

 

Think they actually basically said on day one he's guilty as sin. What confidence they have in their trove of evidence. With Trump gone they will be hoping for the GOP to shake back into some from of normalcy, for them that is.

 

At least tell plausible lies that aren't already literally thrown out of over 60 courts by Trump appointed judges. The MAGA cult must be thoroughly discredited, proven to be as insane as it always was. That would be a start, then get Murdoch, or at least Fox with legal means.

 

Anybody distributing and making money from this demonstrable and extremely divisive lie. One more thing about Fox. They were the first to call a Biden win in either a key state or the presidential race, can't remember which.

 

But the upshot of that was a mightily pissed off Trump and many MAGA cultists began moving to other crazy networks. So Fox decided to get back on board and run the big lie to the hilt, to get those MAGA millions back on board. Then Jan 6th happened.

Edited June 23, 2022 by JFK-1

[JFK-1]

 

[Bindy Badgy]

On 17/06/2022 at 22:14, JFK-1 said:

I can't get my head around a way they could let Trump walk away from this. They only just started their proceeding and already it's been demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt there's been criminal seditious activity here. With Trump up to the neck in it.

 

How can the DOJ retain any credibility as this unfolds if they don't prosecute. It's not as if they're hampered by a Trump like administration who would simply fire any department head and put in a mouthpiece.

 

And that's with at least 2 weeks still to run since it's predicted to go till around the end of June. They're gunning for Trump, it's obvious. And I can't be the only one thinking they will save the most explosive elements till last. Because that's what will be taken away from it, the finale.

 

Trump apparently recently ranted that he wanted equal time on the committee. That wont happen and not because they wouldn't let him speak. But because he never would entertain the thought of it. 

 

Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon and Watergate was trivial in comparison to this. But he was Nixon's VP and replaced him as President. What chance is there of Biden giving Trump a pardon?

 

And if Trump weren't prosecuted that's the precedent here? You can carry out any criminal activity you like while plotting to overthrow the government and just walk away from it?

 

Can't get my head around how that would be presented.

 

There were many times during his presidency where I thought 'this is it'. He kept on going, the Republicans kept making excuses for him, and nothing changed. Unfortunately, I think Maple Leaf may be correct on this. I hope we're both wrong, obviously.

[Maple Leaf]

3 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

Imagine flipping this and say it was Obama the committee were investigating. And producing exactly the same evidence they are now even with all the same characters aside from Obama replacing Trump.

 

Fox 'news', it's not a news source though tens of millions treat it as such, are the only network not covering the hearings. At all. Don't know if they even mention it.

 

Think about that, a channel with "news" in it's title isn't covering the biggest trial of the century and further in all American history.  And that's what this, it's a trial though this court can bring no charges.

 

They're publicly trying Trump and they're doing a fantastic job of it, better than I could have imagined. But in saying that the evidence they have been given is a prosecutors dream.

 

And this major "news" network isn't covering it?  Imagine BBC news had declined to cover the Falklands war. Not even speak about it.

 

This is an incredible situation and to my mind perfectly demonstrates what they really are and what they are is an entity at the heart of creating this political/societal crisis paralyzing the US at this very minute.

 

In the alternate reality scenario I introduced above, swapping Trump to Obama, Tucker Carlson and Fox in total would be all over it like a rash.

 

And being even more incredulous than the rest of us currently are at the irrefutable and absolutely damning evidence.

 

Trump was knowingly executing a criminal coup with multiple threads that ultimately cost human life and could have resulted in the death of a VP.

 

Some highly respected commentators are now predicting Trump is likely to be charged. Presumably initially with just something, rather than trying to cover the broad scope of his crimes. A start.

 

These commentators think that the fake electors scam will be the trigger for the DOJ. They have to act now, if they don't any public perception of justice in this country is irreparably damaged.

 

Another thing the commentators are predicting is that Trump will try to throw the lawyer Eastman under the bus, and wriggle out of it by claiming he truly believed it was all above board.

 

Everything, including the stolen election lie, which right now he is still punting at his yahoo rallies and still collecting millions on it.

 

While the committee is demonstrating beyond reasonable doubt he knew everything was a load of shit, but he ran with it anyway in an attempt to steal an election. The irony.

 

They're saying he wont wriggle out of it like that though I would bet he will still try to. Trump has got away with saying black is white all his life and just expecting people to believe it but that wont fly in a court scenario.

 

There's apparently something called willful ignorance the law recognises as guilty behaviour and Trump will be nailed by it. The lawyer Eastman will probably go to jail, likely Rudy Giuliani too.

 

Trump they think very possibly though it's recognised as a tricky situation. Unprecedented, and hopefully never duplicated. What do you do with something like that? This guy knows shit.

 

And a thought just occurred to me. I would expect Trump if he thought jail time were a real possibility to attempt to flee since if he gets jail time for this he's going to die in prison.

 

If he could get out to someplace he would be out of US jurisdiction and still living comfortably on a golf course. His best pal Putin would take him and give him all that in a heartbeat, what a coup for Vlad if a scenario like that played out.

 

But in theorising all that I don't see how someone like Trump could carry out an an exit. Must be agents around him at all times. More than Trump would have to be in on it. And that would appear difficult.

 

Also, if Trump were canned in at least some fashion, even if they put him in a luxurious island golf course in Florida. Tell him if he ever leaves it he's going to real prison. Murdoch should also be joining him on that island.

 

Fox is the major factor in creating an environment ripe for Trump to exploit. They had been introducing obvious utter bullshit as "news" for years before Trump.

 

Trump unleashed Fox to yet another level of detachment from reality and another level of societal disruption. And just like Trump and co they too know it's not true but still run with it.

 

They aren't running with the hearings because the evidence is impossible to refute, Trump is obviously guilty even before proceedings are done. And while I don't watch or read anything from Fox unless another broadcaster mentions it I think they too, like Trump right now, are still backing the big lie.

 

The commentators I mentioned before think Trump is doing great damage to his case by continuing with this 100% demonstrable lie. If that's so shouldn't the same reasoning be applied to Murdoch?

 

If he wanted it to be covered, no matter what Tucker Carlson wanted, they would run it. And they would run it with any core response Murdoch decided on.

 

Unlike Trump who gets some of his craziest shit from the fringe internet and various nutcases Murdoch actually is a smart guy and the core message always comes from him. All his own work.

 

Some legal framework is required to cover this shit, make illegal this blatant and extremely damaging denial of indisputable reality. They let religions way with that, fair enough, but it can't extend to this faux news network creating this societal disturbance that could at worst result in civil war.

 

There would be complaints that it was some sort of tyrannical government overreach limiting freedom of speech, but in reality they wouldn't be the first advanced and liberal nation to outlaw a denial of indisputable reality.

 

It's illegal in Germany to deny the holocaust and I think in some other European countries too. For obvious reasons, it's a deliberately malicious attempt to negate an indisputable fact which is detrimental and slanderous to an entire group of people every single one of whom probably lost most if not all the people they knew. Friends and family.

 

This Murdoch directed attack on societal cohesion and sheer sanity is like an American holocaust with a blatant denial of the indisputable truth that it's even happening at all.

 

I'm hoping Trump is convicted, because for just one thing if he isn't the democracy is irreparably damaged, and for another it will give the green light to others and perhaps even Trump again that you can do anything, criminal or not, and get away with it. So why not try to execute a coup. Gotta get it right once. Simply try and try again.

 

And that's exactly what will happen at the next presidential election if this isn't knocked on the head, if the GOP were still Trump beheld they would again say, even before the election, that it's going to be rigged.

 

Then win or lose maintain it was still rigged anyway, Trump won in 2016 and decaled both before and after that it was rigged. And if people like that did get the presidency imagine the chaos come the next election, and even more chaos if they lose while again maintaining it's rigged. And firing up the Fox crazies and the MAGA cult.

 

I think there are smart people on that committee and outside it who know something has to be done or this will continue till ir becomes catastrophic. As a suggestion making illegal denial of the fact Biden won the election, denial of this American holocaust.

 

This committee has over a year meticulously collated a mountain of evidence we're being introduced to, what they gathered is vast. We're seeing just significant factors of their trial of Trump. They have vastly more than we will see even when the committee ends.

 

But that vast trove will be meticulously pored over by DOJ prosecutors, you can be guaranteed of that. I feel the committee has from the outset focused on getting Trump out of the equation, they pretty much said it on day one.

 

Think they actually basically said on day one he's guilty as sin. What confidence they have in their trove of evidence. With Trump gone they will be hoping for the GOP to shake back into some from of normalcy, for them that is.

 

At least tell plausible lies that aren't already literally thrown out of over 60 courts by Trump appointed judges. The MAGA cult must be thoroughly discredited, proven to be as insane as it always was. That would be a start, then get Murdoch, or at least Fox with legal means.

 

Anybody distributing and making money from this demonstrable and extremely divisive lie. One more thing about Fox. They were the first to call a Biden win in either a key state or the presidential race, can't remember which.

 

But the upshot of that was a mightily pissed off Trump and many MAGA cultists began moving to other crazy networks. So Fox decided to get back on board and run the big lie to the hilt, to get those MAGA millions back on board. Then Jan 6th happened.

 

Very good post, and an excellent update for people like me who are too pissed-off with the situation in the USA to watch the hearings personally.  And I have never watched Fox 'News'.

 

If this was anyone but Trump being investigated, the matter would already be in the hands of federal prosecutors.  But Trump is no ordinary criminal. The racist buffoon still has a stranglehold on the GOP and still has wide support among the Republican electorate.  And Biden's administration, including the DOJ, will have on eye on the upcoming mid-term elections and be wondering how the Jan 6 committee's findings will affect those. Would criminal charges against Trump galvanise the GOP vote or scunner them?

 

It's a mess of historic proportions and future historians will be writing tomes about how a real-estate broker and former TV-show host, a man of  clearly limited intelligence, could turn the most powerful country into a political shambles simply by using the same propaganda techniques used by Goebbels 80 years ago ... if you repeat a lie often enough, people will eventually believe it.

[Cade]

Supreme Court over-rules New York's open carry restrictions.

 

Anybody in the States can now walk around with any (loaded) gun they want for any reason.

 

[ri Alban]

Crazy.

[ri Alban]

That handmaid's tale is going to happen. America has lost the plot and the good guys are doing nothing to stop it.

[Cade]

Roe/Wade will be repealed tomorrow.

 

 

[ri Alban]

4 minutes ago, Cade said:

Roe/Wade will be repealed tomorrow.

 

 

Hopefully this brings the good guys out on the street. Men telling women what they can't do again, is a fecking disaster.

[The Real Maroonblood]

43 minutes ago, Cade said:

Supreme Court over-rules New York's open carry restrictions.

 

Anybody in the States can now walk around with any (loaded) gun they want for any reason.

 

Mental.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Supreme Court over-rules New York's open carry restrictions.

 

Anybody in the States can now walk around with any (loaded) gun they want for any reason.

 

 

The only way out of this now is getting enough Democrats in the Senate with a bit of spine and passing court expansion, to undo Mitch McConnell's court seat theft.

[Rodger Mellie]

51 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Hopefully this brings the good guys out on the street. Men telling women what they can't do again, is a fecking disaster.

I’m not sure even the repeal of Roe v Wade will be enough to bring that many people out on the streets. I’ve been living/working in the US for 10 years and I’m surprised at how little people seem to care/talk about current affairs. It’s very rare to hear my coworkers discuss anything that’s newsworthy (gas and food prices aside), and even the recent shootings at the elementary school in Texas barely got a mention. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Hopefully this brings the good guys out on the street. Men telling women what they can't do again, is a fecking disaster.

 

We've been in the streets for 7 years now.

 

This isn't a surprise. This, and the Roe repeal, have been in the works since McConnell stonewalled Garland and then stole Ginsburg's seat.

 

But the "good moderates" have been telling us we were overreacting since 2016. They're just finally catching up with how bad it actually is now.

[Cade]

58 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

The only way out of this now is getting enough Democrats in the Senate with a bit of spine and passing court expansion, to undo Mitch McConnell's court seat theft.

  The only way to counter illegal court stuffing is to legally stuff the court.

 

Feckin disgrace that the USA has politically appointed judiciary in the first place. A mickey mouse banana republic.

[Maple Leaf]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

  The only way to counter illegal court stuffing is to legally stuff the court.

 

Feckin disgrace that the USA has politically appointed judiciary in the first place. A mickey mouse banana republic.

 

It's equally disgraceful that the spouse of one of the judges was heavily involved with the people who were trying to over-rule the 2020 election results, and there were no repercussions.  The members of SCOTUS make no attempt to hide their biases.

[Ked]

I'm torn on abortion to be honest.

The more we learn about an unborn baby and its development makes me uneasy about .

However I do not like its political divide and I certainly am suspicious of political gain on the subject.

It definitely is not just about a woman's choice though.

It cannot be .

 

[Cade]

Yes there are grown up debates to be had because medical science is able to save premature babies at younger and younger ages.

But then all the courts need to do is to change the abortion threshold to match the advances in science, to prevent the blurred lines and grey areas of fetal viability.

 

And it most certainly IS up to the mother.

That point is not up for debate.

 

[Maple Leaf]

28 minutes ago, Ked said:

I'm torn on abortion to be honest.

The more we learn about an unborn baby and its development makes me uneasy about .

However I do not like its political divide and I certainly am suspicious of political gain on the subject.

It definitely is not just about a woman's choice though.

It cannot be .

 

I recognise that the subject of abortions is very emotive.  The rhetoric is often extreme.

 

But, in my view, the debate is not about abortions, it's about safe abortions. Women who are desperate to end an unwanted pregnancy will find a way to end it; they always have and they always will.  Instead of having a pregnancy terminated in a sterile clinic performed by trained medical personnel, it will be the person down the street who'll do it in their garage with a wire coat hanger. And women will die.

 

And the women who die will be mainly poor women, because rich women will still have access to a gynecologist who will perform a procedure on the uterus that will end a pregnancy, except it will have a different name than abortion. 

[Greedy Jambo]

Why does nobody ask boris why it's so cheap to buy junk food and so expensive to buy a salad. 

It's absolutely mental, take some pressure off the NHS ffs. 

 

[Ked]

32 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

I recognise that the subject of abortions is very emotive.  The rhetoric is often extreme.

 

But, in my view, the debate is not about abortions, it's about safe abortions. Women who are desperate to end an unwanted pregnancy will find a way to end it; they always have and they always will.  Instead of having a pregnancy terminated in a sterile clinic performed by trained medical personnel, it will be the person down the street who'll do it in their garage with a wire coat hanger. And women will die.

 

And the women who die will be mainly poor women, because rich women will still have access to a gynecologist who will perform a procedure on the uterus that will end a pregnancy, except it will have a different name than abortion. 

It's true that a lot is available to the wealthy and not the poor.

I tried to think of something else that would equate to that but stopped myself.

As I don't want to try and justify my feelings on the matter.

That it's become a definition of where you stand politically is perhaps the worst thing.

 

For my own view I've always felt that children despite the most vulnerable in our societies seem to have the least rights.

And i do think about abortion in that sense .

 

 

 

[FWJ]

5 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Hopefully this brings the good guys out on the street. Men telling women what they can't do again, is a fecking disaster.

https://amp.theguardian.com/science/the-lay-scientist/2014/apr/30/why-are-women-more-opposed-to-abortion
 

And yet more women than men want tougher abortion laws - in this country anyway.

 

“That raises some pretty big implications, the most obvious being that if it were left to women to vote on the issue, with men out of the picture, there’s a good chance that the result would be in favour of restricting abortion. On the flip side, if only men voted, they’d almost certainly vote in favour of women’s reproductive rights.”

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by FWJ

[JFK-1]

7 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

 

We've been in the streets for 7 years now.

 

This isn't a surprise. This, and the Roe repeal, have been in the works since McConnell stonewalled Garland and then stole Ginsburg's seat.

 

But the "good moderates" have been telling us we were overreacting since 2016. They're just finally catching up with how bad it actually is now.

 

Yeah, let me think, 'Trump derangement syndrome'? Whose deranged now?

[JFK-1]

13 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Very good post, and an excellent update for people like me who are too pissed-off with the situation in the USA to watch the hearings personally.  And I have never watched Fox 'News'.

 

If this was anyone but Trump being investigated, the matter would already be in the hands of federal prosecutors.  But Trump is no ordinary criminal. The racist buffoon still has a stranglehold on the GOP and still has wide support among the Republican electorate.  And Biden's administration, including the DOJ, will have on eye on the upcoming mid-term elections and be wondering how the Jan 6 committee's findings will affect those. Would criminal charges against Trump galvanise the GOP vote or scunner them?

 

It's a mess of historic proportions and future historians will be writing tomes about how a real-estate broker and former TV-show host, a man of  clearly limited intelligence, could turn the most powerful country into a political shambles simply by using the same propaganda techniques used by Goebbels 80 years ago ... if you repeat a lie often enough, people will eventually believe it.

 

I only do it to convince you he's going down, and it's working. You're not as convinced as you previously were that he will walk away from this. 😉

[JFK-1]

In his testimony to the Jan. 6 Committee, Arizona’s Republican House Speaker, Rusty Bowers, spoke about why he couldn’t go along with Trump’s pressure campaign.

 

Yet he also said this week that if Trump ran against Biden in 2024, he’d vote for Trump again. What does it say about our country that a party can employ such cognitive dissonance, fully recognizing Trump’s threat to democracy and still being open to supporting him?

 

The Cognitive Dissonance Infiltrating The GOP

 

 

 

[Maple Leaf]

1 hour ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I only do it to convince you he's going down, and it's working. You're not as convinced as you previously were that he will walk away from this. 😉

You're right.  Previously I thought that there was 100% probability of him dodging any indictment, now it's about 90%   But indictment is not conviction, and I'm still at 100% on him dodging that.

[JFK-1]

14 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

You're right.  Previously I thought that there was 100% probability of him dodging any indictment, now it's about 90%   But indictment is not conviction, and I'm still at 100% on him dodging that.

 

I'm watching some of todays proceedings right now,about 2 hours 19 minutes into a 2 hour 36 minute video. Right now, in this closing part they're demonstrating wire fraud on the part of Trump, another indictable offence with ample evidence, he's on video countless times pushing the fraud.

 

Quote

Wire fraud is a federal crime that carries a sentence of not more than 20 years' imprisonment and fines of up to $250,000 for individuals and $500,000 for organizations. 

 

And in this case i'm not talking about fraudulent election claims, I'm talking about fraudulent collection of money, a lot of money predominately from "small donors"

 

Well over $200 million supposed to be used for legal challenges, but never was. Largely due to the fact there was nothing to challenge.

 

That's fraud on a massive scale and they say they're going to come back to this later.   

[JFK-1]

I just noticed the video I watched was from a couple of days ago, but still, wire fraud is another brick in the wall so to speak. Watching most recent hearing now.

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I only do it to convince you *he's going down, and it's working. You're not as convinced as you previously were that he will walk away from this. 😉

*Do you promise.

[Pans Jambo]

13 hours ago, Cade said:

Supreme Court over-rules New York's open carry restrictions.

 

Anybody in the States can now walk around with any (loaded) gun they want for any reason.

 

If that happens what does that mean in reality? I

take my kids to Florida Disneyland and hundreds of Yanks are walking about with loaded 9mm semi automatic hand guns on their person?

 

Or my wife and I are in a New York bar and dozens of people there are strapped whilst getting half pissed?

 

Can they not see what theyre doing? I think these yanks need to travel more. Theyre living in a bubble. 
 

Seriously, if that becomes the new reality I wont be going back there. Be safer going on holiday in Iraq!

[kila]

54 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

If that happens what does that mean in reality? I

take my kids to Florida Disneyland and hundreds of Yanks are walking about with loaded 9mm semi automatic hand guns on their person?

 

Or my wife and I are in a New York bar and dozens of people there are strapped whilst getting half pissed?

 

Can they not see what theyre doing? I think these yanks need to travel more. Theyre living in a bubble. 
 

Seriously, if that becomes the new reality I wont be going back there. Be safer going on holiday in Iraq!

Just the GOP ensuring their supporters can openly carry everywhere, ready for their next coup.

[Maple Leaf]

7 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

If that happens what does that mean in reality? I

take my kids to Florida Disneyland and hundreds of Yanks are walking about with loaded 9mm semi automatic hand guns on their person?

 

Or my wife and I are in a New York bar and dozens of people there are strapped whilst getting half pissed?

 

Can they not see what theyre doing? I think these yanks need to travel more. Theyre living in a bubble. 
 

Seriously, if that becomes the new reality I wont be going back there. Be safer going on holiday in Iraq!

I used to visit Florida on a regular basis, and in the process I became good friends with a local guy.  He strongly recommended that I never go for a pint in a bar but, if I did, not to get into any discussion with another patron.  He said that many subjects are taboo, people are very intolerant, and the other patron might be packing heat.  Alcohol, arguments, and guns are obviously a toxic combination.

 

I followed his advice. 

[ri Alban]

America is fecked. Roe v Wade over turned.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

America just took a massive step backwards.