U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[Cade]

Apart from the voter suppression in the deep south and other red states, they're also installing trumpites in the legal and governmental systems in those states.

The plan is to get the Supreme Court to give each State full control over their own election results.

Then each State's electoral college will simply give Trump the college votes no matter what the voters actually voted for in the next presidential election.

And that's the end of democracy in the USA.

It's happening right now.

[JFK-1]

9 hours ago, Riccarton3 said:

The defence is he didn't coordinate it. 

 

He's cooked if that's the best they can come up with. Insanity or mental incapacity due to extreme stupidity would be a better plea in his case.

Eisenhower didn't coordinate D day, the officers on the beaches did. But he was the guiding hand behind it.

If this were a court case he would be going down, there is no way anybody who has done what he has done could wriggle out of their involvement in it.

I'm confident they're going to prove beyond a doubt Trump and others were trying to execute a coup.

From there it's up to the DOJ.

[JFK-1]

2 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Absolutely batshit mental, I agree. However, he wasn’t the first US president asked to contemplate such heinous acts. The CIA wanted JFK to approve their shooting down of passenger aircraft over US soil along with a list of other acts of terrorism that could be blamed on Cuba. Thankfully, Kennedy refused.

 

Plus ca change……

 

Trump wasn't asked to contemplate bombing Mexico, he was the one suggesting it. Now consider how immensely stupid you would have to be to think that was remotely feasible.

Lob a few missiles at Mexico and pretend they came from somewhere else? Now i'm no military expert, but do I need to be to conclude that's idiotic beyond words?

[Norm]

Apologies to our US posters, but the country is a broken state in all but name. Slowly turning in to a capitalist dystopia from a Paul Verhoeven movie. 

[JFK-1]

The sheer scale of Donald Trump’s depravity is unmatched in the history of the American presidency, and the Republican Party made it possible.

 

By Peter Wehner JUNE 10, 2022, 1:39 PM ET

 

The Moral Desolation of the GOP

 

[JFK-1]

3 hours ago, Norm said:

Apologies to our US posters, but the country is a broken state in all but name. Slowly turning in to a capitalist dystopia from a Paul Verhoeven movie. 

 

I'm in the US and everybody knows, or at least the rational know this is a crisis point for their democracy. There's a conspiracy to take over power in the nation regardless of election results and that's not a democracy at all. That's a Russia like democracy.

This attempt is still ongoing with all manner of voting hindrance being rolled out and it's a reason this committee is critical. I had heard for weeks beforehand that they had stuff that would "bring the house down"

And it's critical this entire disaster be fully exposed for exactly what it was. What all honest people know it was. An attempted coup with weeks of pre planning involved.

Let's see what brings the house down. What sunk Nixon was a 17 minute tape which was 17 minutes missing from the official record. Trump has over 8 hours missing/being covered up.

Now that could bring the house down if they have masses of evidence from that missing 8 hours. 

 

[JFK-1]

Donald Trump is turning his fury to his daughter amid the fallout from Thursday's hearing. In sworn testimony, Ivanka Trump agreed with Attorney General Bill Barr that the former president’s claims of election fraud are not true. 

 

 

[ri Alban]

 

[JFK-1]

Brilliant breakdown in this clip, Trump really is in the shit this time. What happens after this isn't up to this committee.

But I feel they're going to nail him. When the opening remarks include Trump was at the centre of a conspiracy to overthrow the government you have to guess they really do have damning shit.

 

 

[WorldChampions1902]

11 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Trump wasn't asked to contemplate bombing Mexico, he was the one suggesting it. Now consider how immensely stupid you would have to be to think that was remotely feasible.

Lob a few missiles at Mexico and pretend they came from somewhere else? Now i'm no military expert, but do I need to be to conclude that's idiotic beyond words?

Like I said in my OP, I totally agree with what you are saying. But when one compares Trumps batshit mental Mexico proposal with the CIA Operation Northwoods proposal to blow up US passenger jets mid-air, bomb congested public places in major US cities and other state-terrorist atrocities, Trump probably thinks his proposal was OK and a mere ‘non-event’ in comparison.
 

FFS, the CIA were proposing to slaughter thousands of their own citizens on US soil for political/military purposes. In the warped mind of Trump, you can almost see him making the case for his proposal on that basis alone.

 

The world is truly f****d up.

[A Boy Named Crow]

1 hour ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Like I said in my OP, I totally agree with what you are saying. But when one compares Trumps batshit mental Mexico proposal with the CIA Operation Northwoods proposal to blow up US passenger jets mid-air, bomb congested public places in major US cities and other state-terrorist atrocities, Trump probably thinks his proposal was OK and a mere ‘non-event’ in comparison.
 

FFS, the CIA were proposing to slaughter thousands of their own citizens on US soil for political/military purposes. In the warped mind of Trump, you can almost see him making the case for his proposal on that basis alone.

 

America is truly f****d up.

FTFY

[Watt-Zeefuik]

14 hours ago, Norm said:

Apologies to our US posters, but the country is a broken state in all but name. Slowly turning in to a capitalist dystopia from a Paul Verhoeven movie. 

 

Nothing to apologize for. We got called alarmists for freaking out in 2016 and while I certainly can't say I saw all this coming, it felt like we had crossed a turning point, which has certainly turned out to be true.

 

What I feel I got wrong wasn't being devastated in 2016, but in not realizing how much toxicity had been brewing for decades. We always treated it like a fringe, and what Trump showed was that huge swaths of the country were fine with the fringe as long as they got tax breaks on their yachts or a leg up on non-white people. And while Trump broke the country in new ways, he isn't the chief villain in this story. Mitch McConnell in some ways played Trump to get what he wanted and is still the architect in chief of our federal government dysfunction.

 

The only argument I'd have is that the brokenness is relatively similar between the US and Europe. Not just Ukraine, but what Orban is doing in Hungary and AfD and Le Pen madness, and of course a certain serial liar and bumbling fool in No 10 who's enabled by right wing reactionaries. FFS is at this moment my spouse is texting me from Edinburgh that she got stuck in an Orange walk. An Orange walk. In 2022.

 

I don't know how this ends. In many ways, if the Democrats can ever get through renewed voting rights and pro-voting and pro-democracy reforms, that alone will undermine a lot of the lunatic fringe, who's currently exercising power far in excess of its proportion of voters due to the weirdness of the Senate, voting district manipulation, and outright voter suppression. The Democratic party remains a dysfunctional mess, particularly inside the Beltway, but it's nowhere near the cynical powergrubbing nihilists that the GOP have turned into.

 

The combination of the imminent demise of Roe, Uvalde, and the Jan 6 public hearings feel like the kind of triple that might cause a substantive break. But I have no idea how this goes or how it ends.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Led Tasso

[Unknown user]

18 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

FFS is at this moment my spouse is texting me from Edinburgh that she got stuck in an Orange walk. An Orange walk. In 2022.

 

I don't have the gifs, that's disgusting.

[Maple Leaf]

45 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Nothing to apologize for. We got called alarmists for freaking out in 2016 and while I certainly can't say I saw all this coming, it felt like we had crossed a turning point, which has certainly turned out to be true.

 

What I feel I got wrong wasn't being devastated in 2016, but in not realizing how much toxicity had been brewing for decades. We always treated it like a fringe, and what Trump showed was that huge swaths of the country were fine with the fringe as long as they got tax breaks on their yachts or a leg up on non-white people. And while Trump broke the country in new ways, he isn't the chief villain in this story. Mitch McConnell in some ways played Trump to get what he wanted and is still the architect in chief of our federal government dysfunction.

 

The only argument I'd have is that the brokenness is relatively similar between the US and Europe. Not just Ukraine, but what Orban is doing in Hungary and AfD and Le Pen madness, and of course a certain serial liar and bumbling fool in No 10 who's enabled by right wing reactionaries. FFS is at this moment my spouse is texting me from Edinburgh that she got stuck in an Orange walk. An Orange walk. In 2022.

 

I don't know how this ends. In many ways, if the Democrats can ever get through renewed voting rights and pro-voting and pro-democracy reforms, that alone will undermine a lot of the lunatic fringe, who's currently exercising power far in excess of its proportion of voters due to the weirdness of the Senate, voting district manipulation, and outright voter suppression. The Democratic party remains a dysfunctional mess, particularly inside the Beltway, but it's nowhere near the cynical powergrubbing nihilists that the GOP have turned into.

 

The combination of the imminent demise of Roe, Uvalde, and the Jan 6 public hearings feel like the kind of triple that might cause a substantive break. But I have no idea how this goes or how it ends.

 

You're absolutely right, that there's a lunatic fringe in every country, even relatively stable countries like Canada.  All it takes is one high-profile rabble-rouser, with the support of a large audience media outlet, and you have all the ingredients needed for trouble.

 

The USA is unique in that the lunatic "fringe" seems to be a significant part of the population, maybe as high as 30%, and they're all heavily armed and fired up with self-righteousness about the Constitution.

 

EDIT:  And an Orange Walk in Edinburgh in 2022???? 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 hour ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

You're absolutely right, that there's a lunatic fringe in every country, even relatively stable countries like Canada.  All it takes is one high-profile rabble-rouser, with the support of a large audience media outlet, and you have all the ingredients needed for trouble.

 

The USA is unique in that the lunatic "fringe" seems to be a significant part of the population, maybe as high as 30%, and they're all heavily armed and fired up with self-righteousness about the Constitution.

 

EDIT:  And an Orange Walk in Edinburgh in 2022???? 

Speaking of Canadian dysfunction, what’s your read on Ford winning yet again? I don’t follow provincial politics so it’s one of those things I just shake my head about.

[Maple Leaf]

17 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

Speaking of Canadian dysfunction, what’s your read on Ford winning yet again? I don’t follow provincial politics so it’s one of those things I just shake my head about.

His re-election was a foregone conclusion based on the polls.  It boils down to the short memories of the electorate.

He got elected in 2018 because people wanted a change from the Liberals, despite the fact that he was a low-intellect, right wing buffoon.  And his first two years in office were laughable, resulting in a popularity rating barely in double figures.  Then came COVID and it saved his bacon.

He kept a low-profile during the pandemic, leaving health announcements to the doctors.  The small amount of legislation that made it's way through parliament was much more centrist than conservative, so all the daft stuff from his first two years was forgotten by the voters.

Conservative politicians who implement right-wing policies don't survive long in Ontario and Ford has come to realise that.  He'll probably do OK over the next four years.

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

13 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

His re-election was a foregone conclusion based on the polls.  It boils down to the short memories of the electorate.

He got elected in 2018 because people wanted a change from the Liberals, despite the fact that he was a low-intellect, right wing buffoon.  And his first two years in office were laughable, resulting in a popularity rating barely in double figures.  Then came COVID and it saved his bacon.

He kept a low-profile during the pandemic, leaving health announcements to the doctors.  The small amount of legislation that made it's way through parliament was much more centrist than conservative, so all the daft stuff from his first two years was forgotten by the voters.

Conservative politicians who implement right-wing policies don't survive long in Ontario and Ford has come to realise that.  He'll probably do OK over the next four years.

 

 

Cheers. As I said I haven't been following but dispositionally I didn't think he was capable of putting his head down and letting the doctors do things. So while I won't say his re-election was a surprise, I was surprised at how easy it was.

[Maple Leaf]

2 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Cheers. As I said I haven't been following but dispositionally I didn't think he was capable of putting his head down and letting the doctors do things. So while I won't say his re-election was a surprise, I was surprised at how easy it was.

As were most people.  The leaders of the two left-leaning parties resigned the next day, more out of embarrassment than anything else.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 minute ago, Maple Leaf said:

As were most people.  The leaders of the two left-leaning parties resigned the next day, more out of embarrassment than anything else.

As they should have, I would think.

[JFK-1]

The case laid out by the January 6 committee on Thursday was effective and compelling. It will make it even more likely that Republicans in Congress will be running away from reporters — especially those who were seeking pardons from Trump for what they did on or around Jan. 6.

The accumulation of evidence may put pressure on the Justice Department to seriously consider a criminal indictment of Trump.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/06/10/jan-6-hearing-information-00038818

[JFK-1]

Seth takes a closer at multiple Trump aides and advisers confirming on tape there was no evidence of Trump’s stolen election lies and Rudy Giuliani getting wasted on election night.

 

 

[JFK-1]

Seth takes a closer at Rudy Giuliani getting very upset at the accusations that he was wasted on election night and Kimberly Guilfoyle making an obscene amount of money for a speech that lasted less than three minutes on January 6.

 

 

[JFK-1]

Is anyone still of the opinion no significant heads will roll following this committee. Let's face it, they only just got started and already pretty much demonstrated a whole conspiracy. Criminal behaviour and you would have to say even treasonous. And this includes Trump.

The committee can do nothing but present their findings. It's the DOJ who will make the decision to prosecute and I think the evidence is already so overwhleming they're going to have to dish our prosecutions.

And this is from a standpoint of a lot more to come while beforehand insiders were predicting material that would "bring the house down"

I think they will save the best till last, but for me bringing the house down would be bringing Trump down. Prosecution.

In the meantime it looks like Clarence Thomas wife may be in deep shit for conspiracy. She's neck deep in criminal activity with already ample evidence to prove it and probably more to come.

Clarence Thomas's Wife Ginni Needs A 'Great F---ing Criminal' Lawyer

 

[Maple Leaf]

I'm still of the opinion that Trump will walk away scot-free, even 'though he's more guilty than any of the January 6 rioters he incited, and some of them are in jail.  He has too much political clout, too much support among the population, and the fact that he's an ex-Prez buys him some protection.

 

As for Ginni Thomas, she deserves everything she gets.  She's a nasty piece of work.  If Clarence Thomas had an ounce of integrity he'd have resigned months ago when her antics became known.  But he doesn't and he won't.

[Gizmo]

33 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

I'm still of the opinion that Trump will walk away scot-free, even 'though he's more guilty than any of the January 6 rioters he incited, and some of them are in jail.  He has too much political clout, too much support among the population, and the fact that he's an ex-Prez buys him some protection.

 

As for Ginni Thomas, she deserves everything she gets.  She's a nasty piece of work.  If Clarence Thomas had an ounce of integrity he'd have resigned months ago when her antics became known.  But he doesn't and he won't.

 

She probably irons his robes for him. Both types.

[The Real Maroonblood]

38 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

I'm still of the opinion that Trump will walk away scot-free, even 'though he's more guilty than any of the January 6 rioters he incited, and some of them are in jail.  He has too much political clout, too much support among the population, and the fact that he's an ex-Prez buys him some protection.

 

As for Ginni Thomas, she deserves everything she gets.  She's a nasty piece of work.  If Clarence Thomas had an ounce of integrity he'd have resigned months ago when her antics became known.  But he doesn't and he won't.

Finding Trump guilty of something in the riots would go a long way in proving the USA is not a complete basket case country.

We can always dream.

[Riccarton3]

What's the derogatory p word allegedly  aimed at Pence by Trump. Patriot?

[JFK-1]

I can't get my head around a way they could let Trump walk away from this. They only just started their proceeding and already it's been demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt there's been criminal seditious activity here. With Trump up to the neck in it.

 

How can the DOJ retain any credibility as this unfolds if they don't prosecute. It's not as if they're hampered by a Trump like administration who would simply fire any department head and put in a mouthpiece.

 

And that's with at least 2 weeks still to run since it's predicted to go till around the end of June. They're gunning for Trump, it's obvious. And I can't be the only one thinking they will save the most explosive elements till last. Because that's what will be taken away from it, the finale.

 

Trump apparently recently ranted that he wanted equal time on the committee. That wont happen and not because they wouldn't let him speak. But because he never would entertain the thought of it. 

 

Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon and Watergate was trivial in comparison to this. But he was Nixon's VP and replaced him as President. What chance is there of Biden giving Trump a pardon?

 

And if Trump weren't prosecuted that's the precedent here? You can carry out any criminal activity you like while plotting to overthrow the government and just walk away from it?

 

Can't get my head around how that would be presented.

Edited June 17, 2022 by JFK-1

[Maple Leaf]

42 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

I can't get my head around a way they could let Trump walk away from this. They only just started their proceeding and already it's been demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt there's been criminal seditious activity here. With Trump up to the neck in it.

 

How can the DOJ retain any credibility as this unfolds if they don't prosecute. It's not as if they're hampered by a Trump like administration who would simply fire any department head and put in a mouthpiece.

 

And that's with at least 2 weeks still to run since it's predicted to go till around the end of June. They're gunning for Trump, it's obvious. And I can't be the only one thinking they will save the most explosive elements till last. Because that's what will be taken away from it, the finale.

 

Trump apparently recently ranted that he wanted equal time on the committee. That wont happen and not because they wouldn't let him speak. But because he never would entertain the thought of it. 

 

Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon and Watergate was trivial in comparison to this. But he was Nixon's VP and replaced him as President. What chance is there of Biden giving Trump a pardon?

 

And if Trump weren't prosecuted that's the precedent here? You can carry out any criminal activity you like while plotting to overthrow the government and just walk away from it?

 

Can't get my head around how that would be presented.

 

As I've said before, I hope that you're right and that I'm wrong. 

 

Maybe it would stop him from running in 2024 if he was under indictment.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

56 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

I can't get my head around a way they could let Trump walk away from this. They only just started their proceeding and already it's been demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt there's been criminal seditious activity here. With Trump up to the neck in it.

 

How can the DOJ retain any credibility as this unfolds if they don't prosecute. It's not as if they're hampered by a Trump like administration who would simply fire any department head and put in a mouthpiece.

 

And that's with at least 2 weeks still to run since it's predicted to go till around the end of June. They're gunning for Trump, it's obvious. And I can't be the only one thinking they will save the most explosive elements till last. Because that's what will be taken away from it, the finale.

 

Trump apparently recently ranted that he wanted equal time on the committee. That wont happen and not because they wouldn't let him speak. But because he never would entertain the thought of it. 

 

Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon and Watergate was trivial in comparison to this. But he was Nixon's VP and replaced him as President. What chance is there of Biden giving Trump a pardon?

 

And if Trump weren't prosecuted that's the precedent here? You can carry out any criminal activity you like while plotting to overthrow the government and just walk away from it?

 

Can't get my head around how that would be presented.

The way it happens is that Trump has gotten the entire GOP/conservative movement in the US to swear fealty to him, including the raft of ultraconservative judges he and Mitch McConnell rammed through. If the GOP retake control of Congress in the fall, they can sabotage the executive in 50 different ways, which paves the way for a GOP President (Trump or otherwise) in 2024, who issues a blanket pardon.

 

The only hope is to make the charges so blatantly awful that ordinary GOP voters who haven't totally gone MAGA zombie have their stomachs turn, which is difficult when the entire conservative news apparatus is doing its damnedest to ignore the whole proceedings.

 

Right now I would settle for Trump's personal brand being damaged enough that he's not viable in 2024 and that the chickenhearts in the GOP who have shied away from contradicting him get comfortable enough in crossing him and his toadies. Yes, of course I hope he perp-walks, as he absolutely should, but I'm not holding my breath.

[JFK-1]

19 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

which is difficult when the entire conservative news apparatus is doing its damnedest to ignore the whole proceedings.

 

While the likes of Tucker Carlson and Trump too will be glued to it. 

[JFK-1]

This is damning. It strongly suggests pre-planning of the attack on the Capitol. The day before the riot video of 'tourists' being shown thorough the Capitol.

 

One there were no tours of the Capitol at the time. It was covid regulations and members of the security team said even their families weren't allowed in the building.

 

Two these 'tourists' are being shown no tour anybody recognises. They're being shown stuff tour groups are never shown. They're being shown security points and tunnels etc. A knowledge of which would be required to go through the building and reach the floor. 

 

A Republican congressman showing them around who when questioned about this refused to provide any explanation.

 

Three, at least one of these 'tourists' is caught on video taking part in the attack on the building. The implication is obvious. How high does it go? Who told this Congressman to do this?

 

 

[JFK-1]

There Has To Be Further Investigation Into Jan. 5 Tour, Says Former CIA officer

 

 

 

[escobri]

 

🤣

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 hour ago, escobri said:

 

🤣

I wish it was funny but it’s genuinely sad to see old age cognitive decline in public like this. He can’t string a sentence together and has fallen on camera about a dozen times. At some point it’s going to be a bad one and he’s going to crack his head or his hip or something. Crazy situation.

[jack D and coke]

Pretty accurate…

[ri Alban]

 

[ri Alban]

On 18/06/2022 at 16:40, escobri said:

 

🤣

Hopefully someone videos Trump a split second after the sniper.

[ri Alban]

I find it strange that people take great delight seeing a man who fights a stutter and has been through endless family heartbreak making the odd mistake or mishap. And is described as not mentally fit, yet don't seem to see the psychopath in Donald Trump. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

7 hours ago, jonesy said:

The poor bloke caught his foot in a pedal clip thing. It's easily done. Doesn't help his image, but, IMO, doesn't show any further decline.

 

Still, don't think he's this version of himself from waaaay back in 2009 anymore  

 

https://www.theonion.com/shirtless-biden-washes-trans-am-in-white-house-driveway-1819570732

His press secretary is being asked directly by left wing commentator Don Lemon on CNN if he’s mentally fit to run in 2024. CNN, not Fox. And prominent members of his own party have outright refused to endorse him for 2024. It’s not lookin good for Joe.

[JFK-1]

Too much is made of Biden's let's say lack of sprightliness. He's in his late 70's FFS, it's not uncommon. And I don't recall any of the fans of the orange halfwit making a big deal of it when Trump couldn't negotiate a ramp, he's only a couple of years behind Biden and a fat ****.

 

In addition the vast majority of people half his age would stumble over a speech frequently, not everybody is a great public speaker but that's not at the core of what we hire them for.

 

The purpose of Biden is to use his vast knowledge to negotiate through all manner of problems in the most expedient manner. He could do that even if he couldn't talk at all. And I trust his judgement when it comes to decisions that can effect not just Americans but all of us.

 

I'm not kept awake at night worrying about Biden's lack of bike riding skills, I have been kept awake at night over the thought of what might be happening right now in Ukraine if that witless semi literate orange buffoon had stolen that election. 

[JFK-1]

The article i'm going to copy/paste is from the Atlantic magazine, an interesting take on what the author perceives to be an attempt by the committee to give those who have supported Trump from congressmen on down an off ramp. Right on down to some of the grass roots MAGA cultists.

 

Quote

Trump’s Savviest Aides Already Headed for the Exits

The hearings give the former president’s followers a new excuse to quietly back away.

 

Many sophisticated observers of the January 6 committee will judge its success by two key metrics: whether the panel refers former President Donald Trump for criminal investigation and, if so, whether Attorney General Merrick Garland actually proceeds.

 

But committee members are doing another job at least as important as advising the Justice Department: They are giving an off-ramp to those who accepted Trump’s insistence that the 2020 election was stolen out from under him—and who might excuse or even support violence done in his name.

 

Democracies do not fail in a single moment; they gradually break down from within. The same can be said of violent movements. Since the Capitol riot, the United States has been waging what is essentially a counter-extremism effort against Trump and the forces that nearly toppled our democracy.

 

Such movements grow by portraying themselves as successful and their leadership as exceptional. The committee hearings have shown Trump to be not only an insurrectionist and an inciter of violence, but also a desperate sore loser.

 

Almost everyone around Trump was telling him that his public claims of election fraud were “bullshit,” as former Attorney General William Barr put it. The people who continue spreading that myth need to know that Trump is making a fool of them.

 

The savviest of his advisers long ago headed for the exits, and the ones who haven’t are not to be believed.

Notably, most of the committee’s witnesses against the former president are or were members of Team Trump or the GOP. Look at them, the committee is saying—there is a way out. Trump, according to Representative Liz Cheney, the committee’s Republican vice chair, was advised by an “apparently inebriated” Rudy Giuliani.

 

This description, based on the accounts of Trump-campaign figures, isn’t idle gossip, but is meant to humiliate Trump, make him seem like a puppet of the unhinged and reckless.

 

Run away from that guy! Trump is also betrayed by his daughter Ivanka, who in videotaped testimony looks deflated and pale as she sides with the forces telling Trump to stop his madness. The implication is clear: If his own daughter isn’t with him, why should you be?

The former president’s critics may rightly ask why neither she nor Barr spoke up in the moment. But longtime Trump skeptics aren’t the committee’s target audience.

 

The message to his remaining supporters is: Trump has peaked. His best days are behind him. You won’t be the first to take the off-ramp, but you don’t want to be the last.

Instead of subscribing to Trump’s stolen-election fantasies, Republicans can join Team Normal, the term used by the former campaign manager Bill Stepien to describe those who were not instigating violence.

 

If these former Trump loyalists can reject the lies, the committee is effectively telling his current followers, then so can you.

 

And by the way, there was no honor among Trump’s abettors; the committee has evidence, one of its two Republican members has said, that GOP politicians who may have been involved with coordinating the January 6 effort had sought pardons, leaving everybody else exposed to prosecution.

According to evidence aired Thursday, John Eastman—a Trump legal adviser who kept insisting that then–Vice President Mike Pence had the power to alter the Electoral College vote—presumptuously declared in an email after the riot, “I’ve decided that I should be on the pardon list, if that is still in the works.”

 

One of Trump’s White House lawyers testified that he’d told Eastman, “Get a great effing criminal-defense lawyer. You’re gonna need it.” The message to Trump supporters: With company like this, do you need any more reason to take an exit?

My background is in homeland security, and I have previously argued that counterterrorism holds lessons in how to isolate Trump and de-radicalize MAGA extremists.

(Earlier this year, I was among hundreds of experts contacted by committee staffers who were seeking perspective about the events of January 6.)

 

The committee and its investigators plainly understand the one way in which extremist groups gain a foothold politically: Their leaders present themselves as more reasonable and less violent than they really are.

 

The committee is trying to deny Trump and his MAGA allies that option by reminding Americans that the threat of brute force was always the undercurrent behind “Stop the Steal.”

A single congressional committee cannot make Trump’s most violent supporters better, kinder, more accepting of America’s diversity. But it can help separate the former president from elites, donors, and those who would support him simply because they don’t like the alternative.

The committee’s case against Trump is relentless and personal—and one apparently targeted at Americans who might have voted for the former president or been sympathetic to his ideas. As Cheney said, “There will come a day when Donald Trump is gone, but your dishonor will remain.” The committee and its investigators aren’t being nasty for its own sake.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/06/january-6-committee-hearings-trump-supporters/661324/

  

[jack D and coke]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/jesus-could-have-survived-crucifixion-if-he-was-armed-us-congresswoman-claims/?fbclid=IwAR2ZitfASMRbsoOpzkDX48jkju7NKEgo2Ml_DkyrH9x1N-gEat_mGnjXPl4
😐

[JFK-1]

I'm wondering if they're going to get back to the threats on Mike Pence. Their first plan, and this was plotted from the top down, had to involve Trump, was to basically abduct Pence away from the capitol.

 

Do that and he can't certify the election result thus Trump basically refuses to leave office because the result isn't certified. But Pence refused to leave because he knew exactly what was happening. And he didn't want to be that guy who enabled it.

 

As for plan two as far fetched as this would have appeared pre Trump there's compelling evidence to suggest at least an assault on Pence was plotted to prevent the certification or even murder, that would do the trick nicely too.

 

The VP has been murdered, Trump retains power and declares martial law because this is a national emergency, which it is. Then does everything in his power to prevent that election ever being certified.

 

As I said, I wonder if they will get back to that, maybe even close with it while providing some last minute explosive details. Isn't that one of the most disturbing features of this whole thing? WTF, it's come to mafia style state and you can get away with it?

 

The committee can refer certain elements to the Attorney General, or not. Anybody think given the tone set so far that they wont?

[JFK-1]

10 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/jesus-could-have-survived-crucifixion-if-he-was-armed-us-congresswoman-claims/?fbclid=IwAR2ZitfASMRbsoOpzkDX48jkju7NKEgo2Ml_DkyrH9x1N-gEat_mGnjXPl4
😐

 

I wonder if that vacuous drivel was being delivered to a Christian audience. I'm not religious but I did learn that one of the most striking elements of the Jesus story was his opposition to all violence, right up to turn the other cheek.

 

Or is that interpreted to be turn the other cheek while unslinging the assault rifle every man, woman, teacher, shopper, toddler and Messiah should have.  

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I wonder if that vacuous drivel was being delivered to a Christian audience. I'm not religious but I did learn that one of the most striking elements of the Jesus story was his opposition to all violence, right up to turn the other cheek.

 

Or is that interpreted to be turn the other cheek while unslinging the assault rifle every man, woman, teacher, shopper, toddler and Messiah should have.  

Jesus was the most “woke” person ever I think. These people would hate him  

[Unknown user]

On 16/06/2022 at 18:58, Maple Leaf said:

I'm still of the opinion that Trump will walk away scot-free, even 'though he's more guilty than any of the January 6 rioters he incited, and some of them are in jail.  He has too much political clout, too much support among the population, and the fact that he's an ex-Prez buys him some protection.

 

As for Ginni Thomas, she deserves everything she gets.  She's a nasty piece of work.  If Clarence Thomas had an ounce of integrity he'd have resigned months ago when her antics became known.  But he doesn't and he won't.

Maybe, but surely their main goal isn't to jail him or bankrupt him, it's to prevent him becoming president again because people around him will have learned and he could REALLY do some damage next time.

[ri Alban]

Jesus was a good lad. He'd have hated Christians. 

[ri Alban]

 

[il Duce McTarkin]

4 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/jesus-could-have-survived-crucifixion-if-he-was-armed-us-congresswoman-claims/?fbclid=IwAR2ZitfASMRbsoOpzkDX48jkju7NKEgo2Ml_DkyrH9x1N-gEat_mGnjXPl4
😐

 

 

16 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Jesus was a good lad.

 

Agreed.