U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[jake]

Ah, you just roll over and like your belly being tickled then whatever. Nice one.

 

I've accepted the EU referendum, however, as has been proved in court today, the Government are not always correct and it's taking 2 memebers of the public to draw this out with their own cash.

 

Ive accepted the brexit.

 

Aye right fishface

[Space Mackerel]

Ive accepted the brexit.

Aye right fishface

Brexit has been the best thing that's happened to push for Indy ref 2. I love it! All the Scottish regions voting to remain whilst England and Wales pull us out.

It doesn't stop me mocking you for being economically thick though.

[Jamboelite]

Someone quoted Burns and Trump and started the comparison, expressing astonishment that anyone could be proud that Trump is their President. Yet a lot of us will be proudly celebrating Burns Day tomorrow without regard to his morality or personal behaviour. Just as Burns is celebrated for his poetry, maybe we should see how Trump performs as President before judging him in that capacity.

I can do both i can judge the man and thr actions so far neither have been great.

 

His executive orders since coming in have been awful he is also a sleazy predator and a human being who wouldnt understand democracy or peoples rights.

[Francis Albert]

Ah, you just roll over and like your belly being tickled then whatever. Nice one.

 

I've accepted the EU referendum, however, as has been proved in court today, the Government are not always correct and it's taking 2 memebers of the public to draw this out with their own cash.

Where did I say Governments are always correct and not subject to legal challenge?

 

The Scottish Government for one seems to have got its interpretation of the legal position on the devolved governments' rights on Brexit wrong, hasn't it?

[Francis Albert]

I can do both i can judge the man and thr actions so far neither have been great.

 

His executive orders since coming in have been awful he is also a sleazy predator and a human being who wouldnt understand democracy or peoples rights.

As a sleazy predator unable to understand democracy or peoples rights he is in good company ... many of his predecessors would qualify, and almost all on the democracy and peoples rights point.

[Space Mackerel]

Where did I say Governments are always correct and not subject to legal challenge?

 

The Scottish Government for one seems to have got its interpretation of the legal position on the devolved governments' rights on Brexit wrong, hasn't it?

Not as much as Maggie May and The Daily Mail though, eh?

[Boab]

Pretty strange we have a Burns/Trump thing going on considering Trump has said in the past that he has never read a book as he was too busy.

 

Yes, folks, that's the level of nutcracker in the White House.

 

[Space Mackerel]

Personally I think Donald thinks he's Frank Underwood from House of Cards, he's been watching the tele too much

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Diverting from the point being made by going "whatabout Burns' sexual proclivities" is quality now?

Thank God you don't do quality control where I work!

Was it today or yesterday that you likened New Amsterdam fur traders from yesteryear as being akin to today's New York financial types?

[Unknown user]

It was hardly a diversion. I was responding to someone else's (IMO hypocritical) comparison of Burns and Trump.

Comparing their prose is not the same as comparing the people

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Personally I think Donald thinks he's Frank Underwood from House of Cards, he's been watching the tele too much

As long as he doesn't go down to the Metro or forget he started the car in the garage.

[Unknown user]

Aye ok .

If the original point was relevant then so was the reply

Cant have it both ways .

You can't tell the difference between comparing the words of a president to a famous poet and comparing them as people either?

[Unknown user]

Was it today or yesterday that you likened New Amsterdam fur traders from yesteryear as being akin to today's New York financial types?

I talked about the birth of new York as an every man for himself type of place, an ethos which hasn't changed in the centuries since, and that Trump truly is a son of the city.

No judgement, and certainly no comparison made with fur traders.

Edited January 24, 2017 by Smithee

[John Findlay]

There is no hypocrisy from me surrounding Trump. He is a self-confessed sexual predator and a despicable human being because of that.

 

Your assertion that Burns was worse is absurd.

Why?. The dates of when a m man treated women disgracefully are immaterial. Robert Burns was a serial shagger or to be polite a womaniser. How do you know he never grabbed a woman's gennetalia? They couldn't run to the media back then or post on twitter or facebook. He was responsible for one or two bast Ards in his time.

[Unknown user]

Why?. The dates of when a m man treated women disgracefully are immaterial. Robert Burns was a serial shagger or to be polite a womaniser. How do you know he never grabbed a woman's gennetalia? They couldn't run to the media back then or post on twitter or facebook. He was responsible for one or two bast Ards in his time.

Why? Because it's irrelevant.

 

Should we compare him to Ghengis Khan next? Yeah, well Trump never dominated the steppes and swept westward, wiping out everything in his path, killing the male stock and impregnating the women so the mongol genes would flourish.

 

Good guy, Donald.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

I talked about the birth of new York as an every man for himself type of place, an ethos which hasn't changed in the centuries since, and that Trump truly is a son of the city.

No judgement, and certainly no comparison made with fur traders.

Your exact words are

"....only interested in making money from the fur trade"

"Money was God and the pursuit of riches and self serving was,and still is,the driving force behind New York"

If I misunderstood that then I apologize.

[Unknown user]

Your exact words are

"....only interested in making money from the fur trade"

"Money was God and the pursuit of riches and self serving was,and still is,the driving force behind New York"

If I misunderstood that then I apologize.

As I say, no judgement or comparison, but it's beginnings truly shaped the city's psyche, and Trump is a son of the city.

 

It's a practical place without much loyalty - when the English showed up to take over new amsterdam, the Dutch overseers wanted to fight but the population refused. To their eyes, there was no difference between being taxed the Dutch or the English and they'd rather trade then fight.

 

Money first

[jake]

Comparing their prose is not the same as comparing the people

 

Mate that was a excellently worded response.

 

And apt.

 

Grrrrrrrr

[Maple Leaf]

Why?. The dates of when a m man treated women disgracefully are immaterial. Robert Burns was a serial shagger or to be polite a womaniser. How do you know he never grabbed a woman's gennetalia? They couldn't run to the media back then or post on twitter or facebook. He was responsible for one or two bast Ards in his time.

There is no evidence that Burns treated women disgracefully.  There is no evidence that his many romances were anything but consensual.  There is no evidence that he grabbed any female genitals.  Your points are straw man arguments.

 

Trump is a self-confessed serial sex abuser.  What he has admitted to is a criminal offence.  Numerous women have come forward and confirmed that he did what he said he did.  If the FBI had any balls, they would have launched an investigation into his behaviour.  But they don't have any balls, so a billionaire Presidential candidate gets to act with impunity. That doesn't change the fact that he's a disgusting human being.

 

The fact that a sexual predator has just been elected POTUS should be worrisome to everyone.  

[John Findlay]

There is no evidence that Burns treated women disgracefully. There is no evidence that his many romances were anything but consensual. There is no evidence that he grabbed any female genitals. Your points are straw man arguments.

 

Trump is a self-confessed serial sex abuser. What he has admitted to is a criminal offence. Numerous women have come forward and confirmed that he did what he said he did. If the FBI had any balls, they would have launched an investigation into his behaviour. But they don't have any balls, so a billionaire Presidential candidate gets to act with impunity. That doesn't change the fact that he's a disgusting human being.

 

The fact that a sexual predator has just been elected POTUS should be worrisome to everyone.

Then he will be the first to be gaoled for sexual offences. He is not immune from prosecution.

[jake]

There is no evidence that Burns treated women disgracefully. There is no evidence that his many romances were anything but consensual. There is no evidence that he grabbed any female genitals. Your points are straw man arguments.

 

Trump is a self-confessed serial sex abuser. What he has admitted to is a criminal offence. Numerous women have come forward and confirmed that he did what he said he did. If the FBI had any balls, they would have launched an investigation into his behaviour. But they don't have any balls, so a billionaire Presidential candidate gets to act with impunity. That doesn't change the fact that he's a disgusting human being.

 

The fact that a sexual predator has just been elected POTUS should be worrisome to everyone.

 

Yeah.

 

Laughing out loud .

 

Were you worried about a lot worse.

 

Nah.

 

Some people are so consumed by the fractured politic they actually comfort themselves.

 

Mind sook yer thumb

[Notts1874]

Yeah.

 

Laughing out loud .

 

Were you worried about a lot worse.

 

Nah.

 

Some people are so consumed by the fractured politic they actually comfort themselves.

 

Mind sook yer thumb

None of what you have just typed makes any sense at all.

 

I think this thread needs more Burns prose.

[Sten Guns]

I refuse to believe Jake isn't our old pal Doug, or a relation of.....

 

Absolutely loves a poem.

[Notts1874]

I refuse to believe Jake isn't our old pal Doug, or a relation of.....

 

Absolutely loves a poem.

Shit.......now you mention it

[Unknown user]

Mate that was a excellently worded response.

 

And apt.

 

Grrrrrrrr

And, in keeping with the subject, while my words were wise, I'm still a dobber

[Unknown user]

Ha! whaur ye gaun, ye crowlin ferlie?

Your impudence protects you sairly;

I canna say but ye strunt rarely,

Owre gauze and lace;

Tho', faith! I fear ye dine but sparely

On sic a place.

 

Ye ugly, creepin, blastit wonner,

Detested, shunn'd by saunt an' sinner,

How daur ye set your fit upon her-

Sae fine a lady?

Gae somewhere else and seek your dinner

On some poor body.

 

Swith! in some beggar's haffet squattle;

There ye may creep, and sprawl, and sprattle,

Wi' ither kindred, jumping cattle,

In shoals and nations;

Whaur horn nor bane ne'er daur unsettle

Your thick plantations.

 

Now haud you there, ye're out o' sight,

Below the fatt'rels, snug and tight;

Na, faith ye yet! ye'll no be right,

Till ye've got on it-

The verra tapmost, tow'rin height

O' Miss' bonnet.

 

My sooth! right bauld ye set your nose out,

As plump an' grey as ony groset:

O for some rank, mercurial rozet,

Or fell, red smeddum,

I'd gie you sic a hearty dose o't,

Wad dress your droddum.

 

I wad na been surpris'd to spy

You on an auld wife's flainen toy;

Or aiblins some bit dubbie boy,

On's wyliecoat;

But Miss' fine Lunardi! fye!

How daur ye do't?

 

O Jeany, dinna toss your head,

An' set your beauties a' abread!

Ye little ken what cursed speed

The blastie's makin:

Thae winks an' finger-ends, I dread,

Are notice takin.

 

O wad some Power the giftie gie us

To see oursels as ithers see us!

It wad frae mony a blunder free us,

An' foolish notion:

What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us,

An' ev'n devotion!

[Notts1874]

Nae bother:

 

"Ye see yon birkie ca'd a lord,

Wha struts, an' stares, an' a' that,

Tho' hundreds worship at his word,

He's but a coof for a' that."

Now were talking. Nicely put lol.

[jake]

And, in keeping with the subject, while my words were wise, I'm still a dobber

 

Smithee .

So am i .

And i love burns.

 

To see ourselves etc.

 

 

Keep on mate.

[jake]

Ha! whaur ye gaun, ye crowlin ferlie?

Your impudence protects you sairly;

I canna say but ye strunt rarely,

Owre gauze and lace;

Tho', faith! I fear ye dine but sparely

On sic a place.

 

Ye ugly, creepin, blastit wonner,

Detested, shunn'd by saunt an' sinner,

How daur ye set your fit upon her-

Sae fine a lady?

Gae somewhere else and seek your dinner

On some poor body.

 

Swith! in some beggar's haffet squattle;

There ye may creep, and sprawl, and sprattle,

Wi' ither kindred, jumping cattle,

In shoals and nations;

Whaur horn nor bane ne'er daur unsettle

Your thick plantations.

 

Now haud you there, ye're out o' sight,

Below the fatt'rels, snug and tight;

Na, faith ye yet! ye'll no be right,

Till ye've got on it-

The verra tapmost, tow'rin height

O' Miss' bonnet.

 

My sooth! right bauld ye set your nose out,

As plump an' grey as ony groset:

O for some rank, mercurial rozet,

Or fell, red smeddum,

I'd gie you sic a hearty dose o't,

Wad dress your droddum.

 

I wad na been surpris'd to spy

You on an auld wife's flainen toy;

Or aiblins some bit dubbie boy,

On's wyliecoat;

But Miss' fine Lunardi! fye!

How daur ye do't?

 

O Jeany, dinna toss your head,

An' set your beauties a' abread!

Ye little ken what cursed speed

The blastie's makin:

Thae winks an' finger-ends, I dread,

Are notice takin.

 

O wad some Power the giftie gie us

To see oursels as ithers see us!

It wad frae mony a blunder free us,

An' foolish notion:

What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us,

An' ev'n devotion!

I swear i posted last post afore i seen this.

 

Quality mate.

 

And peace to the poor .

[Unknown user]

I swear i posted last post afore i seen this.

 

Quality mate.

 

And peace to the poor .

[Space Mackerel]

[st1874]

And we'll never see a MEN'S MARCH because all those losers who marched last week would literally implode. What hypocrisy.

 

I didn't want Trump to win, but with the sight of some of the mutants smashing the place to pieces at the inauguration I'm delighted he did.

 

Get it round you, ya bigoted freakshow b******s.

[Space Mackerel]

And we'll never see a MEN'S MARCH because all those losers who marched last week would literally implode. What hypocrisy.

I didn't want Trump to win, but with the sight of some of the mutants smashing the place to pieces at the inauguration I'm delighted he did.

Get it round you, ya bigoted freakshow b******s.

You've never seen a Fathers for Justice stunt then?

[Maple Leaf]

Yeah.

 

Laughing out loud .

 

Were you worried about a lot worse.

 

Nah.

 

Some people are so consumed by the fractured politic they actually comfort themselves.

 

Mind sook yer thumb

I knew in advance that you wouldn't agree with any criticism of a white President.  If it was the black President I was criticising, you'd have jumped in with both feet.

 

But you haven't told us what you think about a sexual predator being the POTUS.

[st1874]

You've never seen a Fathers for Justice stunt then?

You cannot accept these people are hypocritical bigots who cannot accept they got shafted.

 

I think in all my years of voting I've been on the winning side about twice. Can I smash the place up or do I require some kind of minority status (which I could probably claim) to make that acceptable?

 

Hysteria cooked up by the radical left and hipster millenials who look down their nose at everyone while claiming to defend minority rights.

[Space Mackerel]

You cannot accept these people are hypocritical bigots who cannot accept they got shafted.

I think in all my years of voting I've been on the winning side about twice. Can I smash the place up or do I require some kind of minority status (which I could probably claim) to make that acceptable?

Hysteria cooked up by the radical left and hipster millenials who look down their nose at everyone while claiming to defend minority rights.

Hypocritical bigots? You want to deny democracy and freedom of people to express opinion?

Wimmen, scourge of st's life. Imagine having the audacity to march against a boorish sexual predator like old Donnie, eh?

[jake]

Hypocritical bigots? You want to deny democracy and freedom of people to express opinion?

Wimmen, scourge of st's life. Imagine having the audacity to march against a boorish sexual predator like old Donnie, eh?

 

You deny the british publics vote.

 

And by default deny scotlands.

 

 

Hypocritical spacey you define it.

[John Findlay]

You've never seen a Fathers for Justice stunt then?

What was different about their stunts compared to the sufferagettes. Both with viable cause in my view.

[Space Mackerel]

What was different about their stunts compared to the sufferagettes. Both with viable cause in my view.

He wanted an example of a male only protest so I gave him one. I'm still waiting for an answer from st1874.

[Der Kaiser]

"Alternative Facts"

 

 

I love how Trump has surrounded himself with utter fookwits.

[Unknown user]

"Alternative Facts"

 

 

I love how Trump has surrounded himself with utter fookwits.

****wits have been re-branded as alternative geniuses by the way.

[jake]

****wits have been re-branded as alternative geniuses by the way.

 

And thosr that question the last 8 years of the USA branded racist.

 

 

Or the mainstream media branded news.

 

Now thats funny.

[Francis Albert]

There is no evidence that Burns treated women disgracefully.  There is no evidence that his many romances were anything but consensual.  There is no evidence that he grabbed any female genitals.  Your points are straw man arguments.

 

Trump is a self-confessed serial sex abuser.  What he has admitted to is a criminal offence.  Numerous women have come forward and confirmed that he did what he said he did.  If the FBI had any balls, they would have launched an investigation into his behaviour.  But they don't have any balls, so a billionaire Presidential candidate gets to act with impunity. That doesn't change the fact that he's a disgusting human being.

 

The fact that a sexual predator has just been elected POTUS should be worrisome to everyone.  

Of course there is no evidence Burns' "romances" were anything other than consensual. How were servants in the 18th century ever going to accuse a rich, famous and successful citizen of sexual abuse or even of taking advantage of his position as master over servant.

 

Today Trump's accusers have access to the courts and unlimited funds from Trump's opponents to pursue legal remedies.

 

So why not at least defer judgement on Trump on this if we are exonerating Burns?

[Ulysses]

The sorest winner of all time can't stop whining.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2017/01/24/daily-202-the-sorest-winner-of-all-time-cannot-stop-whining/5886adb5e9b69b432bc7e07f/?utm_term=.2614e60833bd&wpisrc=nl_daily202&wpmm=1

 

 

What a wimp. 

[J.T.F.Robertson]

He is a self-absorbed, vindictive, man-child. HTF his "fellow" Republicans have allowed what they must plainly see, is a potential disaster in waiting, shows how devoid of principle they all are.

Desperate times call for even greater desperate measures, I suppose.

[st1874]

Hypocritical bigots? You want to deny democracy and freedom of people to express opinion?

Wimmen, scourge of st's life. Imagine having the audacity to march against a boorish sexual predator like old Donnie, eh?

Deny democracy? "Not my President"?

 

Couldn't really have put that better myself. Hypocrites.

[jake]

Congratulations President Trump.

 

Your first drone strike in Yemen.

 

Carrying on the legacy of bush and obama.

[Rocco_Jambo]

Chortle.

[Pans Jambo]

The mans an arse no doubt and I'm not really a supporter however; its a refreshing change that hes telling business leaders that he wont tolerate them closing down factories and moving them abroad so they can take advantage of cheap labour at the expense of the American work force. He said those that do will have a border tax imposed on their products when they are imported. I really like that.

One of the complaints I have had over the last 25 years is what has East Lothian Council done to attract jobs to East Lothian? Apart from Charles River Laboratories outside Tranent theres been no real employment down here since the Mitsibushi Factory in Haddington closed in the early 90's. My Daughter leaves school this year and shes not going to Uni so she will have to travel into Edinburgh to get work in one of the financial institutes more likely. Theres nothing down here unless you get a job with the council or ina shop!

We could do with a shift in attitude ala Trump when it comes to emplyment.

Of course he completely blew it when he agreed to allow the oil pipeline to run through the native Americans lands. He did say USA will manufacture the pipe and thats good but the environment will suffer under Trump I fear.

 

The UK was a power house in Manufacturing ships, steel, cars, electronics etc and should be again. I'm not into the whole 'Britain First' thing as I think its misinformed and a tad racist but I get the need for jobs at home.

[Ibrahim Tall]

The mans an arse no doubt and I'm not really a supporter however; its a refreshing change that hes telling business leaders that he wont tolerate them closing down factories and moving them abroad so they can take advantage of cheap labour at the expense of the American work force. He said those that do will have a border tax imposed on their products when they are imported. I really like that.

One of the complaints I have had over the last 25 years is what has East Lothian Council done to attract jobs to East Lothian? Apart from Charles River Laboratories outside Tranent theres been no real employment down here since the Mitsibushi Factory in Haddington closed in the early 90's. My Daughter leaves school this year and shes not going to Uni so she will have to travel into Edinburgh to get work in one of the financial institutes more likely. Theres nothing down here unless you get a job with the council or ina shop!

We could do with a shift in attitude ala Trump when it comes to emplyment.

Of course he completely blew it when he agreed to allow the oil pipeline to run through the native Americans lands. He did say USA will manufacture the pipe and thats good but the environment will suffer under Trump I fear.

 

The UK was a power house in Manufacturing ships, steel, cars, electronics etc and should be again. I'm not into the whole 'Britain First' thing as I think its misinformed and a tad racist but I get the need for jobs at home.

I don't disagree the government needs to do more to create jobs and support manufacturing in this country but the situation isn't the same as in the US and the timeframe goes a lot further back than the 25 years you mentioned.

The Mitsubishis, NEC's Levis, Motorolas etc which set up here in the 80's of course aren't British companies and in effect all we did in the country is the same thing we're now blaming Eastern Europe and South Asia(Or Mexico in Trumps case) for doing now ie take jobs from their home country.

 

Actual 'British' manafacturing virtually died decades ago and would be very hard to revive as barely even the produce raw materials(Coal/Metals etc) any more let alone refine them.

Eg. Without Coal etc British Steel is effectively dead, with British Steel the shipbuilding sector is effectively dead as we're reliant on abroad and so on.