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Levein’s time is up...

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BarneyBattles44
1 minute ago, Gregorski said:

I've been pushing back on the idea that Levein's first tenure as Manager was a failure and was mediocre. It thought it was unfair

 

Explained? 😀

 

No . a lot of time wasted. Not much to state where Trophies are concerned.

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Gregorski
6 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Comparing Doddie to Graham Rix. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow. :facepalm:

Got to be the Jambo equivalent of sacrilege surely.

 

The man grabbed the club by the scruff of the neck and with the support of a few others pulled them back to the top regions of Scottish football.

 

 

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siegementality
Just now, Gregorski said:

I've been pushing back on the idea that Levein's first tenure as Manager was a failure and was mediocre. It thought it was unfair

 

Explained? 😀

Yeah. Back to back third places, I got it.

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Bellion
Just now, siegementality said:

Thankfully in my lifetime I’ve had better Hearts moments to saviour. Each to their own though.

That’s a shame. Where I was sitting, everyone was really enjoying it and going pretty mad. I don’t recall seeing anyone sitting ruminating on a mental list of where it ranked in the list of all time greats, but then I was busy celebrating. As you say, each to their own.

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To Be Frank
1 minute ago, innerjambo said:

 

Great improvement I my opinion, I agree, and probably where they should be sitting around due to the size and history of the club, 4th, 5th 6th 7th. Surely it only makes them successful because of how shit they were previously. I'm not mocking him btw, he did a fantastic job. So where are Hearts limits then? because it does my head in the way the ugly sisters have just waltzed back in here with their 2 man show. It's like taking a Ferrari, and only allowing it to perform like a Fiat, by teaching and filling it's head with crap, so it can't go out there and do it's job.

 

 

 

Fair play to you for realising your “moderate success” comment was  wrong and acknowledging Moyes did a fantastic job. 👍🏻

 

Our current limit is third unfortunately and an outside shot at a cup. The status quo has returned unfortunately and no way we can compete with those two squads over 38 games. Our only hope is that our academy and youth system becomes hugely successful and lucrative over the next few years.

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Dusk_Till_Dawn

Cruyff Turn comparing Pochettino and Levein.

 

Jesus Christ.

 

I don’t think it can get any more desperate than that.

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To Be Frank
6 minutes ago, siegementality said:

Both were Hearts managers. Neither won a trophy. That is the comparator.

 

They aren’t even in the same ball park as Hearts managers and shouldn’t be mentioned in the same sentence.

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Gregorski
1 minute ago, siegementality said:

Yeah. Back to back third places, I got it.

Sweet!

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siegementality
2 minutes ago, Gregorski said:

Got to be the Jambo equivalent of sacrilege surely.

 

The man grabbed the club by the scruff of the neck and with the support of a few others pulled them back to the top regions of Scottish football.

 

 

Thank feck you are around to give me a history lesson. Otherwise I would have forgotten that I was a season ticket holder throughout his whole managerial period. 

 

Still, semi sensible people can see the comparator I was using. Both managers of Hearts, along with numerous other, none of which won a trophy. 

 

My fault for crediting you as being semi sensible. Lesson learned.

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Dusk_Till_Dawn

Trophies are a total irrelevance. Whether he won anything or not, Levein was good for us first time around.

 

This time around, we are going nowhere. We’re not a good team, we don’t look like being a good team and we haven’t look like being a good team for yonks. Even if we’d won the Scottish Cup in May it would have hidden a multitude of sins. 

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To Be Frank
1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Trophies are a total irrelevance. Whether he won anything or not, Levein was good for us first time around.

 

This time around, we are going nowhere. We’re not a good team, we don’t look like being a good team and we haven’t look like being a good team for yonks. Even if we’d won the Scottish Cup in May it would have hidden a multitude of sins. 

 

Like it did in 2012. 

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
Just now, To Be Frank said:

 

Like it did in 2012. 

 

Absolutely. I’ve never backed Sergio returning.

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To Be Frank
Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

Absolutely. I’ve never backed Sergio returning.

 

Me neither 👍🏻

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siegementality
2 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Like it did in 2012. 

Are you insinuating that Hearts are being financially mismanaged by the current owner?

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To Be Frank
2 minutes ago, siegementality said:

Are you insinuating that Hearts are being financially mismanaged by the current owner?

 

Erm...no. Are you? 🤷🏻‍♂️

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Smith's right boot
29 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I went out to see the bus come back with the silverware. Great.  Loved it. Must have been 250k there. You might have been watching your 22 in a row video that day.

 

 

I celebrated both. 

 

It's not an either /or situation. 

 

Success can Come in all different forms, especially for a club like Hearts. 

 

Players and managers can also be successful and good without wining things. 

 

Various examples have been used. 

 

If you think success is only measured in trophies, then crack on. 

 

Your argueing for the sake of it in order to try and make Levein look shite or shiter- if you want . You need to ask why you try so hard to make one of our own look so bad and are here argueing about it. 

 

Our form is poor, CL's position is in jeopardy, but the lengths you go to ram home any point you have is quite remarkable. 

 

Belittling 22 iar is a new one, your chat about cups to belittle it is hibs chat. Again, why would you? 

What's your point? 

 

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siegementality
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Trophies are a total irrelevance. Whether he won anything or not, Levein was good for us first time around.

 

This time around, we are going nowhere. We’re not a good team, we don’t look like being a good team and we haven’t look like being a good team for yonks. Even if we’d won the Scottish Cup in May it would have hidden a multitude of sins

 

19 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Like it did in 2012. 

 

14 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Erm...no. Are you? 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

My mistake. It’s just that in 2012  the players weren’t being paid, the playing squad wasn’t the greatest quality, we had a mad owner, the club was in financial turmoil, the negative press was incredible, but the manager still managed to bring a group of players together to beat Celtic in the semi final, then dry hump our city rivals in the final.

 

You intimated that if we’d won the Scottish Cup in May it would have hidden a multitude of sins like 2012. Then I remembered that none of those factors exist. The players are being paid, the quality of squad is better, our owner is sane - albeit she has her faults - and we are probably as financially as sound as we have ever been. 

 

It was at that point that I realised you were talking shit.

Edited by siegementality

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
3 minutes ago, siegementality said:

 

 

 

My mistake. It’s just that in 2012  the players weren’t being paid, the playing squad wasn’t the greatest quality, we had a mad owner, the club was in financial turmoil, the negative press was incredible, but the manager still managed to bring a group of players together to beat Celtic in the semi final, then dry hump our city rivals in the final.

 

You intimated that if we’d won the Scottish Cup in May it would have hidden a multitude of sins like 2012. Then I remembered that none of those factors exist. The players are being paid, the quality of squad is better, our owner is sane - albeit she has her faults - and we are probably as financially as sound as we have ever been. 

 

It was at that point that I realised you were talking shit.

 

The comparison is moot. All that matters is what Levein is achieving now, which is sod all.

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Cruyff Turn
29 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Cruyff Turn comparing Pochettino and Levein.

 

Jesus Christ.

 

I don’t think it can get any more desperate than that.

Did I do that? 🤔

 

Nope. 

 

Apology accepted.

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
3 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Did I do that? 🤔

 

Nope. 

 

Apology accepted.

 

Oh, you know what you were doing :rofl: 

 

desperate

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siegementality
4 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

The comparison is moot. All that matters is what Levein is achieving now, which is sod all.

The comparison isn’t moot if it is used to undermine the achievements of a manager who actually won a trophy.

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Cruyff Turn
2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

Oh, you know what you were doing :rofl: 

 

desperate

I asked Frank if the Spurs manager had won anything. 🤷‍♂️ That is all. 😁

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gnasher75

This transfer window - Halkett, Naismith, Washington, Damour - and the loans coming from the Manchester clubs shows that Craig Levein is worth his weight in gold... as a Director of Football.  Now we just need a decent Head Coach aka Manager to turn this squad into a football team.

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tntjambo

its over mate 

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To Be Frank
4 hours ago, siegementality said:

 

 

 

My mistake. It’s just that in 2012  the players weren’t being paid, the playing squad wasn’t the greatest quality, we had a mad owner, the club was in financial turmoil, the negative press was incredible, but the manager still managed to bring a group of players together to beat Celtic in the semi final, then dry hump our city rivals in the final.

 

You intimated that if we’d won the Scottish Cup in May it would have hidden a multitude of sins like 2012. Then I remembered that none of those factors exist. The players are being paid, the quality of squad is better, our owner is sane - albeit she has her faults - and we are probably as financially as sound as we have ever been. 

 

It was at that point that I realised you were talking shit.

 

In 2012 the cup win covered up some dreadful league performances and a 6th place league finish. A cup win last year would have done exactly the same.

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Enzo Chiefo
6 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

I celebrated both. 

 

It's not an either /or situation. 

 

Success can Come in all different forms, especially for a club like Hearts. 

 

Players and managers can also be successful and good without wining things. 

 

Various examples have been used. 

 

If you think success is only measured in trophies, then crack on. 

 

Your argueing for the sake of it in order to try and make Levein look shite or shiter- if you want . You need to ask why you try so hard to make one of our own look so bad and are here argueing about it. 

 

Our form is poor, CL's position is in jeopardy, but the lengths you go to ram home any point you have is quite remarkable. 

 

Belittling 22 iar is a new one, your chat about cups to belittle it is hibs chat. Again, why would you? 

What's your point? 

 

Why are you on here defending Levein by mentioning 22 in a row? What did that have to do with Levein the manager?  The lengths some go to defend him are unbelievable.  Just because he happened to be a great player 30 years ago.

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Hearts1975
1 hour ago, To Be Frank said:

 

In 2012 the cup win covered up some dreadful league performances and a 6th place league finish. A cup win last year would have done exactly the same.

It would have been exactly the same right enough. Craig has overseen signing in the region of 60-70 players 

 

You compare 2 x situations which are not even remotely linked in terms of circumstances  

 

"Until the end of Season 2012-13 Heart of Midlothian will only be able to register players on the following basis:

  • One-out, one-in (i.e. the club will only be able to replace such number of players as have their registrations with the club terminated - whether by sale, mutual agreement or otherwise)
  • Only under-21 players (as defined in the SPL Rules) will be able to be registered
  • Any new under-21 player registered must have an annualised employment cost lower than that of the player leaving the club."

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Finlay James
6 hours ago, gnasher75 said:

This transfer window - Halkett, Naismith, Washington, Damour - and the loans coming from the Manchester clubs shows that Craig Levein is worth his weight in gold... as a Director of Football.  Now we just need a decent Head Coach aka Manager to turn this squad into a football team.

 

And this sums it up

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Enzo Chiefo
1 hour ago, Hearts1975 said:

It would have been exactly the same right enough. Craig has overseen signing in the region of 60-70 players 

 

You compare 2 x situations which are not even remotely linked in terms of circumstances  

 

"Until the end of Season 2012-13 Heart of Midlothian will only be able to register players on the following basis:

  • One-out, one-in (i.e. the club will only be able to replace such number of players as have their registrations with the club terminated - whether by sale, mutual agreement or otherwise)
  • Only under-21 players (as defined in the SPL Rules) will be able to be registered
  • Any new under-21 player registered must have an annualised employment cost lower than that of the player leaving the club."

Exactly. Levein's answer to everything right now is "sign someone". To have signed the number of players he has, in less than 2 years it numbers at least 30, and to still be churning out the same toothless performances and excuses, really does take aome doing. Surely,  while over in Greece, AB will be having another Eureka moment, similar to the one that told her "the best man for the job" is already here..

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To Be Frank
1 hour ago, Hearts1975 said:

It would have been exactly the same right enough. Craig has overseen signing in the region of 60-70 players 

 

You compare 2 x situations which are not even remotely linked in terms of circumstances  

 

"Until the end of Season 2012-13 Heart of Midlothian will only be able to register players on the following basis:

  • One-out, one-in (i.e. the club will only be able to replace such number of players as have their registrations with the club terminated - whether by sale, mutual agreement or otherwise)
  • Only under-21 players (as defined in the SPL Rules) will be able to be registered
  • Any new under-21 player registered must have an annualised employment cost lower than that of the player leaving the club."

 

We didn’t sign 60-70 players last season. 😳

 

We were pretty dreadful in the league in 11/12 and finished 6th. We were pretty dreadful in the league last season and finished 6th. The cup win in 2012 made a bad season look good. A cup win in May would have done the same for last season. I think most people (except you) would agree that.

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Hearts1975
13 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

We didn’t sign 60-70 players last season. 😳

 

We were pretty dreadful in the league in 11/12 and finished 6th. We were pretty dreadful in the league last season and finished 6th. The cup win in 2012 made a bad season look good. A cup win in May would have done the same for last season. I think most people (except you) would agree that.

At what point in my post did I say it wouldn’t have made the season better ? 

 

I said, that to compare the 2 seasons (in my view) with one manager who couldn’t even change the squad or recruit individuals, to make it better, to another manager who has made multiple signings trying to improve things, but then jumping and making a comparible outcome on Both seasons is grossly unfair 

 

I said levein oversaw 60-70 signings which also allowed for his time as DOF 

 

 

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Hearts1975
1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Exactly. Levein's answer to everything right now is "sign someone". To have signed the number of players he has, in less than 2 years it numbers at least 30, and to still be churning out the same toothless performances and excuses, really does take aome doing. Surely,  while over in Greece, AB will be having another Eureka moment, similar to the one that told her "the best man for the job" is already here..

And that was exactly my point I was making to TBF Enzo 

 

We should be dealing with the here and now and not harking back to Sergio’s time in charge where players weren’t even getting paid and where the guy was working with his hands tied behind his back comparing what happened back then to if we won the cup last year 

 

it was a bloody miracle given the circumstances what Sergio pulled out the bag in 2012, and gave all of us one of the best days of our lives as a direct result 

 

 

 

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dougal

I don't know about everyone else but someone's past performances be it a manager or a player do not allow them more time especially if they're not doing as well as we expect them to. If we got JJ or Sergio back and had performed how we've performed the last couple of years their cup wins wouldn't stop me from wanting them replaced and it's the same with Levein. I don't care how good a player he was or how good he was in his first spell in charge.  He's not doing it now. It's that simple. He is starting to really alienate a large portion of the support. He needs to go pronto. Either resign or get his P45 from Budge.

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To Be Frank
44 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

At what point in my post did I say it wouldn’t have made the season better ? 

 

I said, that to compare the 2 seasons (in my view) with one manager who couldn’t even change the squad or recruit individuals, to make it better, to another manager who has made multiple signings trying to improve things, but then jumping and making a comparible outcome on Both seasons is grossly unfair 

 

I said levein oversaw 60-70 signings which also allowed for his time as DOF 

 

 

 

source.gif

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Hearts1975
9 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

source.gif

That what you say in every single post you make 

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Smith's right boot
4 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Why are you on here defending Levein by mentioning 22 in a row? What did that have to do with Levein the manager?  The lengths some go to defend him are unbelievable.  Just because he happened to be a great player 30 years ago.

 

No, I'm saying success isn't only trophies. 

 

You knew that, tho. 

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Agentjambo

Mr Moyes anyone 😳

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merseyjambo
20 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

No, I'm saying success isn't only trophies. 

 

You knew that, tho. 

 

Wow, just wow

 

22 in a row was a great achievement but if we rip the piss out of Hibs going on about 7-0 or 6-2 only being worth 2 points, then we need to accept that going unbeaten in 22 games against them gave us bragging rights but it won us what, exactly what their 7-0 and 6-2 won them. Points.

 

If bragging rights is a measure of success then we truly have morphed into Hibs and accepting mediocrity.

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Smith's right boot
Just now, merseyjambo said:

 

Wow, just wow

 

22 in a row was a great achievement but if we rip the piss out of Hibs going on about 7-0 or 6-2 only being worth 2 points, then we need to accept that going unbeaten in 22 games against them gave us bragging rights but it won us what, exactly what their 7-0 and 6-2 won them. Points.

 

If bragging rights is a measure of success then we truly have morphed into Hibs and accepting mediocrity.

 

 

Point still missed. 

 

You can be successful or a good team without winning trophies. 

Various examples have been used, above. 

 

To say CL us shite because he has no trophies is hibs. 

 

If trophies are the ONLY measure of success you have then I feel you will be very disappointed most seasons. 

 

3 cups in 50 plus years shows us this. 

 

 

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Smithee
51 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Point still missed. 

 

You can be successful or a good team without winning trophies. 

Various examples have been used, above. 

 

To say CL us shite because he has no trophies is hibs. 

 

If trophies are the ONLY measure of success you have then I feel you will be very disappointed most seasons. 

 

3 cups in 50 plus years shows us this. 

 

 

 

The greatest Hearts team I've seen won nothing but the Tennants Sixes and Doddie would now be counted as a managerial failure. 

**** that for a view on the world. 

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Smith's right boot
19 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

The greatest Hearts team I've seen won nothing but the Tennants Sixes and Doddie would now be counted as a managerial failure. 

**** that for a view on the world. 

 

 

It's a strange mentality for any fan of Hearts. 

We ofc want to win more trophies but it's not the only measure of success we have as a club or ever will have due to celtic and rangers. 

 

To dismiss Doddie, CL and these teams etc as failures because they won nothing is beyond me. 

Makes me think they must be young, maybe if only 20 or something it may make a little sense. Still, even 3 cups in 20 years is hardly dripping in trophies enough to justify that attitude. 

 

 

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Boab
1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

It's a strange mentality for any fan of Hearts. 

We ofc want to win more trophies but it's not the only measure of success we have as a club or ever will have due to celtic and rangers. 

 

To dismiss Doddie, CL and these teams etc as failures because they won nothing is beyond me. 

Makes me think they must be young, maybe if only 20 or something it may make a little sense. Still, even 3 cups in 20 years is hardly dripping in trophies enough to justify that attitude. 

 

 

 

At the end of the day, we just want a team that wins football matches, playing half decent football. Where that takes us in any given season is reward for that.

We’re not getting that, and haven’t for a while, bar last season’s Cup runs. 

I agree comparing trophy wins is not the way to look at things solely.

 

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Smith's right boot
Just now, Boab said:

 

At the end of the day, we just want a team that wins football matches, playing half decent football. Where that takes us in any given season is reward for that.

We’re not getting that, and haven’t for a while, bar last season’s Cup runs. 

I agree comparing trophy wins is not the way to look at things solely.

 

 

 

Correct, we need to improve on 6th place finishes. 

 

I think we will. 

So e think we won't unless a ne manager Comes in. 

 

That is a fair debate point. 

 

The personal Insults, the effort to try and make CL look shite by saying he's unsuccessful is just nonesense and takes away from the fact as you say we need to get better on the park. 

 

The pitch, the Naysmith job are all just side shows as well which no one really actually cares about. 

 

 

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To Be Frank
3 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

That what you say in every single post you make 

 

source.gif

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Boab
2 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Correct, we need to improve on 6th place finishes. 

 

I think we will. 

So e think we won't unless a ne manager Comes in. 

 

That is a fair debate point. 

 

The personal Insults, the effort to try and make CL look shite by saying he's unsuccessful is just nonesense and takes away from the fact as you say we need to get better on the park. 

 

The pitch, the Naysmith job are all just side shows as well which no one really actually cares about. 

 

 

 For the record, i’m in the ‘ He should have went after the SCF ‘ camp. I can understand why he stayed. One year to go on contract, leaving with a better league position etc.

All that may still happen but the early signs are not good. In saying that, i’m rolling up at Fir Park expecting a win, and, despite the uninspiring start, I think we’ll get it.

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Smith's right boot
16 minutes ago, Boab said:

 For the record, i’m in the ‘ He should have went after the SCF ‘ camp. I can understand why he stayed. One year to go on contract, leaving with a better league position etc.

All that may still happen but the early signs are not good. In saying that, i’m rolling up at Fir Park expecting a win, and, despite the uninspiring start, I think we’ll get it.

 

 

A sc final departure would have made sense. 

Departing right now wouldn't imo, but we do need results for so many reasons. 

 

Friday would be a great time to start getting them. 

👍

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Smith's right boot
16 minutes ago, Boab said:

 For the record, i’m in the ‘ He should have went after the SCF ‘ camp. I can understand why he stayed. One year to go on contract, leaving with a better league position etc.

All that may still happen but the early signs are not good. In saying that, i’m rolling up at Fir Park expecting a win, and, despite the uninspiring start, I think we’ll get it.

 

 

A sc final departure would have made sense. 

Departing right now wouldn't imo, but we do need results for so many reasons. 

 

Friday would be a great time to start getting them. 

👍

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Gregorski
13 hours ago, siegementality said:

Thank feck you are around to give me a history lesson. Otherwise I would have forgotten that I was a season ticket holder throughout his whole managerial period. 

 

Still, semi sensible people can see the comparator I was using. Both managers of Hearts, along with numerous other, none of which won a trophy. 

 

My fault for crediting you as being semi sensible. Lesson learned.

Wasn't giving you a history lesson mate, I was replying to somebody else.

 

I had to give up on you after you lumped Alex McDonald in to a category that included Graham Rix and Tommy McLean. 😂

 

Lumping managers into one of two categories, 'succesfull' and 'unsuccessfull' based on whether they won a trophy or not is incredibly simplistic and ignores so many other barometers that you could use to judge a manager on. 

 

And when the end result is that you end up lumping a Hearts legend  like Alex McDonald in with the likes of Rix who was at the club for a few months it's just farcical.

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OmiyaHearts

I'm trying to get excited about the two potential signings of Whelan and Meshino. I can't shake the feeling we don't have the right people to get the best out of them though. 

 

I look forward to being proven wrong...

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Forever Hearts

This is the best squad of players we've had in a while. Absolutely no excuses from now on. 

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