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Levein’s time is up...

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Gregorski
5 minutes ago, siegementality said:

Where is his 3rd place success recorded?

1DD8F9F7-B87C-4D97-BA92-EAA7EC950329.jpeg

Beating Bayern Munich in the UEFA Cup Quarter final isn't on that list.

 

Is that irrelevant also?

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To Be Frank
Just now, Cruyff Turn said:

Has the Spurs manager won anything? 

 

Nope yet he’s wanted by the biggest clubs in Europe 🤔

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siegementality
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Bellion said:

Given that success is defined solely by winning cups, presumably the league is just totally irrelevant, so we shouldn’t mind how we played on Saturday or any league games this season. We were never going to win that one anyway. Here I was all concerned over nothing.

Success is defined as winning trophies. When a Hearts manager of a recent generation wins the league I’ll be sure to post a picture of him.

Edited by siegementality

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To Be Frank
1 minute ago, siegementality said:

So we were lucky to get to last years cup final - using your logic - a cup final that we didn’t win, and the fact we finished 6th - and the league doesn’t lie - proves what about Levein?

 

Proves we clearly underperformed. Can’t see how anyone could dispute that. 

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Gregorski
1 minute ago, siegementality said:

So we were lucky to get to last years cup final - using your logic - a cup final that we didn’t win, and the fact we finished 6th - and the league doesn’t lie - proves what about Levein?

It proves he isn't good enough this time around which I haven't denied at any point if you look through this thread?

 

 

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Cruyff Turn
Just now, To Be Frank said:

 

Nope yet he’s wanted by the biggest clubs in Europe 🤔

Spurs fans must think he’s shit. 

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siegementality
2 minutes ago, Gregorski said:

Beating Bayern Munich in the UEFA Cup Quarter final isn't on that list.

 

Is that irrelevant also?

We didn’t beat Bayern Munich in the UEFA cup final. We beat them at home and were beaten over the two legs, 

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To Be Frank
Just now, siegementality said:

Success is defined as winning trophies. When a Hearts manager wins this generation wins the league I’ll be sure to post a picture of him.

 

Sorry, you’re wrong. David Moyes is pretty much universally acclaimed as a hugely successful Everton manager. Won nothing.

 

Same for Pochettino ar Spurs, Doddie and Levein with us and you could even throw in Graham Taylor too. All didn’t win a trophy. All successful managers.

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Cruickshank for Scotland
3 minutes ago, Gregorski said:

Beating Bayern Munich in the UEFA Cup Quarter final isn't on that list.

 

Is that irrelevant also?

 

You are referring to ONE game

We were successful in that ONE game.

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Gregorski
1 minute ago, siegementality said:

Success is defined as winning trophies. 

 

So by that definition have we failed in all but 3 seasons since season 1959/60?

 

God, I thought I was feeling fed up before.

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Sir Gio

Success certainly has not been any game this season 

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To Be Frank
Just now, Sir Gio said:

Success certainly has not been any game this season 

 

No disputing that for sure! 😡

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Gregorski
Just now, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

You are referring to ONE game

We were successful in that ONE game.

Succesful! Yes.

 

Hardly irrelevant then.

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innerjambo

David Moyes had moderate success in the epl. Everton were, and still are a big club and they were always around mid table or above. But that's not real success  for their size, real success is punching above your wait and going way beyond expectations. Now had Everton been 2nd or 3rd, that would definitely be real success.

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Sir Gio
Just now, To Be Frank said:

 

No disputing that for sure! 😡

He needs to pull the finger out and rediscover his attitude 

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Gregorski
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, siegementality said:

We didn’t beat Bayern Munich in the UEFA cup final. We beat them at home and were beaten over the two legs, 

Just because it isn't listed as a major honour doesn't make it irrelevant or unworthy of praise though.

 

It mattered. That's what I'm saying. Just because something isn'tlisted as a major honour, doesn't make it a failure.

 

It is indicative of a certain level of success.

 

Especially for a team the size of ours.

Edited by Gregorski

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To Be Frank
Just now, Sir Gio said:

He needs to pull the finger out and rediscover his attitude 

 

I’m not sure that’s possible to be honest. I fear the old Levein is gone forever. Either his new approach needs to start working asap or it’s over.

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Smith's right boot
4 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

You are referring to ONE game

We were successful in that ONE game.

 

 

22 in a row was shite. 

No trophies. 

 

 

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Enzo Chiefo
20 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

You could argue 3rd then 3rd is better than 2nd then sacked? 🤷🏻‍♂️

You could argue practically anything. I certainly agree that back to back 3rd place finishes are infinitely better than the guy we're stuck with just now that has delivered back to back 6th places.

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Cruickshank for Scotland
2 minutes ago, Gregorski said:

Succesful! Yes.

 

Hardly irrelevant then.

 

Irrelevant in terms of a managers career at a Club. 

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McCrae

I think CL has played a blinder in the transfer window. The signings made have been fantastic.  He can still pick a player. Now he needs to make HIS team perform.

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Cruickshank for Scotland
1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

22 in a row was shite. 

No trophies. 

 

 

 

Was Levein in charge for all 22 games?? 🤔

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Cruickshank for Scotland
4 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

I’m not sure that’s possible to be honest. I fear the old Levein is gone forever. Either his new approach needs to start working asap or it’s over.

 

On that we agree Frank. 

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Smith's right boot
Just now, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

Was Levein in charge for all 22 games?? 🤔

 

 

Apparently success is trophies only according to some. 

 

22iar, shite. 

 

 

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siegementality
1 minute ago, Gregorski said:

It proves he isn't good enough this time around which I haven't denied at any point if you look through this thread?

 

 

FFS!! At no point have I argued about what Levein did 15 years ago (even though he won nowt). He’s not good enough now. 

 

Regardless of what he has done - and his greatest achievement at Hearts will be getting us to last years cup final - the history books - unless something changes - will show him as the manager of Hearts. A manager who won nothing, along with Tony Ford, Bobby Moncur, Willie Ormand, Tommy McLean, Graham Rix, et al. Sadly also included in that bunch is Alex McDonald.

 

I don’t support Hearts to celebrate coming third. You might, and as I said if that is how you define success you are welcome to it. 

 

 

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Enzo Chiefo
1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

22 in a row was shite. 

No trophies. 

 

 

In a period when we had gone 34 years without a trophy, it was all we had to brag about. 3 Scottish Cup wins later , 2 of which had included hammerings of Hibs at Hampden, and it falls well down the pecking order of success.

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To Be Frank
2 minutes ago, innerjambo said:

David Moyes had moderate success in the epl. Everton were, and still are a big club and they were always around mid table or above. But that's not real success  for their size, real success is punching above your wait and going way beyond expectations. Now had Everton been 2nd or 3rd, that would definitely be real success.

 

:cornette:

 

If you’re going to talk about something so confidently at least do a bit of research. Everton had finished bottom half three years in a row and were battling relegation when he took over and he transformed them into a team that finished 4th and qualified for the Champions League within two years. The last time Everton finished 4th before that was in the 1980s.

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Smith's right boot
1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

In a period when we had gone 34 years without a trophy, it was all we had to brag about. 3 Scottish Cup wins later , 2 of which had included hammerings of Hibs at Hampden, and it falls well down the pecking order of success.

 

Aye, it was shite. 

Hated it. 

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Cruickshank for Scotland
Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

In a period when we had gone 34 years without a trophy, it was all we had to brag about. 3 Scottish Cup wins later , 2 of which had included hammerings of Hibs at Hampden, and it falls well down the pecking order of success.

 

Exactly. 👍

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innerjambo
11 minutes ago, Gregorski said:

I am yes.

 

Unless everything other than a trophy is deemed a failure.

 

In that case, Alex McDonald failed. 

 

I can't and never will accept that.

 

Getting into and winning cup finals, is a success. Also getting through the European qualifiers and into the group stages would be what I call successful. 

4th place in the league is shit, I don't want 4th, I want a very minimum of 3rd, with 1st or 2nd the ultimate goal.

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Bellion
9 minutes ago, siegementality said:

Success is defined as winning trophies. When a Hearts manager of a recent generation wins the league I’ll be sure to post a picture of him.

Cool. Given that we’ve won three major trophies in about 60 years, you might have a bit of a wait. Best of luck. I’ll be enjoying the good seasons in the meantime. 

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To Be Frank
6 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

You could argue practically anything. I certainly agree that back to back 3rd place finishes are infinitely better than the guy we're stuck with just now that has delivered back to back 6th places.

 

Amen to that

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siegementality
Just now, Bellion said:

Cool. Given that we’ve won three major trophies in about 60 years, you might have a bit of a wait. Best of luck. I’ll be enjoying the good seasons in the meantime. 

I bet you remember the seasons we won the cup over all the other “good seasons” though 😉

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siegementality

There’s some desperados on here when their defence of Levein amounts to him being a better manager 15 years ago than he is now 😂😂😂😂😂😂

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Gregorski
4 minutes ago, siegementality said:

FFS!! At no point have I argued about what Levein did 15 years ago (even though he won nowt). He’s not good enough now. 

 

Regardless of what he has done - and his greatest achievement at Hearts will be getting us to last years cup final - the history books - unless something changes - will show him as the manager of Hearts. A manager who won nothing, along with Tony Ford, Bobby Moncur, Willie Ormand, Tommy McLean, Graham Rix, et al. Sadly also included in that bunch is Alex McDonald.

 

I don’t support Hearts to celebrate coming third. You might, and as I said if that is how you define success you are welcome to it. 

 

 

I know he's not good enough now.

 

Lumping Alex McDonald in with a list that includes Graham Rix and Tommy McLean? Really?

 

A guy that produced, mentored and developed players such as John Roberstson, Gary Mackay, Craig Levein, John Colquhoun, Dave McPherson?

 

C'mon now. That has to be extremely harsh. Extremely.

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Enzo Chiefo
4 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Aye, it was shite. 

Hated it. 

I went out to see the bus come back with the silverware. Great.  Loved it. Must have been 250k there. You might have been watching your 22 in a row video that day.

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Gregorski
2 minutes ago, siegementality said:

There’s some desperados on here when their defence of Levein amounts to him being a better manager 15 years ago than he is now 😂😂😂😂😂😂

 

Nobody is defending Levein at all as far as I can see.

 

Not this tenure anyway.

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To Be Frank
1 minute ago, siegementality said:

There’s some desperados on here when their defence of Levein amounts to him being a better manager 15 years ago than he is now 😂😂😂😂😂😂

 

I don’t think anybody could possibly deny he was a far better manager 15 years ago then he is now. That’s something we can all agree on so I’m not sure what your point is? 🤷🏻‍♂️

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Bellion
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, siegementality said:

I bet you remember the seasons we won the cup over all the other “good seasons” though 😉

Certainly do. The finals in 1998 and 2012 are the best games, in a league of their own.

 

Plenty more memories in the next tier down though. Including the de Vries 5-1 game, Austin McCann, Stampy at ER and Bordeaux. Would hate to forget how much I enjoyed those.

Edited by Bellion

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siegementality
Just now, Gregorski said:

 

Nobody is defending Levein at all as far as I can see.

 

Not this tenure anyway.

So what exactly have your dozens of posts on this thread been about? The definition of success? Can’t be really as I was the one that asked that question and you’d posted multiple times before that.

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To Be Frank
10 minutes ago, siegementality said:

FFS!! At no point have I argued about what Levein did 15 years ago (even though he won nowt). He’s not good enough now. 

 

Regardless of what he has done - and his greatest achievement at Hearts will be getting us to last years cup final - the history books - unless something changes - will show him as the manager of Hearts. A manager who won nothing, along with Tony Ford, Bobby Moncur, Willie Ormand, Tommy McLean, Graham Rix, et al. Sadly also included in that bunch is Alex McDonald.

 

I don’t support Hearts to celebrate coming third. You might, and as I said if that is how you define success you are welcome to it. 

 

 

 

Comparing Doddie to Graham Rix. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow. :facepalm:

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siegementality
1 minute ago, Bellion said:

Certainly do. 1998 and 2012 are the best games, in a league of their own.

 

Plenty more memories in the next tier down though. Including the de Vries 5-1 game, Austin McCann, Stampy at ER and Bordeaux. Would hate to forget how much I enjoyed those.

Well when you’re on your death bed I hope a 2-1 win against Celtic isn’t your last memory of Hearts. It’ll not be mine.

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Enzo Chiefo
39 minutes ago, siegementality said:

What success actually looks like!

3B5F9E7D-3E25-4AAB-ABCB-DB6DB9D11E74.jpeg

A2C4CAF5-1985-4C92-8566-CE0B6D4D9C19.jpeg

CD1029DC-9B13-4D26-85A1-8196AC86918A.jpeg

👍

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To Be Frank
1 minute ago, siegementality said:

So what exactly have your dozens of posts on this thread been about? The definition of success? Can’t be really as I was the one that asked that question and you’d posted multiple times before that.

 

You do realise it’s possible to defend unjust criticism of Levein’s first spell but also think his current spell is a bit of a cluster****? We’re multi-faceted human beings and therefore capable of more than one line of thought 👍🏻

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BarneyBattles44

Valdas is the more successful when it comes to honours even though he wasn't the main man the full 05-06 season. 2nd and won Scottish cup.

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innerjambo
1 minute ago, To Be Frank said:

 

:cornette:

 

If you’re going to talk about something so confidently at least do a bit of research. Everton had finished bottom half three years in a row and were battling relegation when he took over and he transformed them into a team that finished 4th and qualified for the Champions League within two years. The last time Everton finished 4th before that was in the 1980s.

 

Great improvement I my opinion, I agree, and probably where they should be sitting around due to the size and history of the club, 4th, 5th 6th 7th. Surely it only makes them successful because of how shit they were previously. I'm not mocking him btw, he did a fantastic job. So where are Hearts limits then? because it does my head in the way the ugly sisters have just waltzed back in here with their 2 man show. It's like taking a Ferrari, and only allowing it to perform like a Fiat, by teaching and filling it's head with crap, so it can't go out there and do it's job.

 

 

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Bellion
Just now, siegementality said:

Well when you’re on your death bed I hope a 2-1 win against Celtic isn’t your last memory of Hearts. It’ll not be mine.

Me neither and I didn’t say it would be. Great moment though, wasn’t it. Hope you enjoyed it.

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siegementality
2 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Comparing Doddie to Graham Rix. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow. :facepalm:

Both were Hearts managers. Neither won a trophy. That is the comparator.

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Gregorski
3 minutes ago, siegementality said:

So what exactly have your dozens of posts on this thread been about? The definition of success? Can’t be really as I was the one that asked that question and you’d posted multiple times before that.

I've been pushing back on the idea that Levein's first tenure as Manager was a failure and was mediocre. It thought it was unfair

 

Explained? 😀

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siegementality
Just now, Bellion said:

Me neither and I didn’t say it would be. Great moment though, wasn’t it. Hope you enjoyed it.

Thankfully in my lifetime I’ve had better Hearts moments to saviour. Each to their own though.

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