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Levein’s time is up...

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Inch Hearts
Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

It would be interesting if the season had happened in reverse with very poor results the first five months but excellent results in the last four. Timing is everything when it comes to perception. 

 

We where brilliant from Aug 27th to 1st November.  Just over 2 months, the rest, shite.  Following on from a season and a half of shite that was blamed on numerous other factors. 

Edited by Inch Hearts

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Absolute Scenes
6 minutes ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

We where brilliant from Aug 27th to 1st November.  Just over 2 months, the rest, shite.  Following on from a season and a half of shite that was blamed on numerous other factors. 

however...if we started off bad and the last 2 months were brilliant would you feel the same?

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sadj
31 minutes ago, RudiHMFC said:

 

Is he unfit though? There seems to be many inconsistencies in that theory. Why did he play the cup game against Livi if he was unfit? Why did he then start against Dundee and get hauled off only to appear in the starting line up again at Hamilton but then get hooked at half time then not seen again in the squad after that. It all doesn't quite add up.

Physically unfit or mentally unfit 🤷🏻‍♂️🤔🤨

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Inch Hearts
7 minutes ago, Absolute Scenes said:

however...if we started off bad and the last 2 months were brilliant would you feel the same?

 

If we finished like a train to scrape into the top sixth and finish there I would be a slightly more bit optimistic but still would feel the season was below par -again. 

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Absolute Scenes
6 minutes ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

If we finished like a train to scrape into the top sixth and finish there I would be a slightly more bit optimistic but still would feel the season was below par -again. 

 

BUt Craig Levein would have turned around a season that was destined for us to be bottom six - only to have a 2-3 month spell where we were almost unbeaten

 

that would surely show we were headed in the right direction and people would be feeling optimistic about the next season?

 

What happened at the start wasn't by chance, we genuinely looked a team

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The Mercer Takeover
12 minutes ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

We where brilliant from Aug 27th to 1st November.  Just over 2 months, the rest, shite.  Following on from a season and a half of shite that was blamed on numerous other factors. 

 

When teams have significant changes in personnel at the start of the season or are just recently promoted, you often see them doing well for a quarter of the season, as the other teams in the league work out what is required to beat them. We also had the likes of Uche for other clubs to come to terms with. Levein himself even highlighted this himself earlier in the season.

 

Injuries didn't help but almost right on cue after the first quarter of games, our form collapsed and has been nothing short of woeful ever since.

 

We have been astonishingly lucky with the SC and hopefully this continues for one more game but action is required.

 

Can you replace a manager if he wins a cup, a few have said. You are damn right you can, he is well passed his sell by date and we need a new direction!

 

I would actually replace him before the final, to give us that extra edge that teams get with a new manager bounce.    

 

  

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Absolute Scenes
2 minutes ago, The Mercer Takeover said:

 

When teams have significant changes in personnel at the start of the season or are just recently promoted, you often see them doing well for a quarter of the season, as the other teams in the league work out what is required to beat them. We also had the likes of Uche for other clubs to come to terms with. Levein himself even highlighted this himself earlier in the season.

 

Injuries didn't help but almost right on cue after the first quarter of games, our form collapsed and has been nothing short of woeful ever since.

 

We have been astonishingly lucky with the SC and hopefully this continues for one more game but action is required.

 

Can you replace a manager if he wins a cup, a few have said. You are damn right you can, he is well passed his sell by date and we need a new direction!

 

I would actually replace him before the final, to give us that extra edge that teams get with a new manager bounce.    

 

  

 

how could that possibly help us??

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Inch Hearts
15 minutes ago, Absolute Scenes said:

 

BUt Craig Levein would have turned around a season that was destined for us to be bottom six - only to have a 2-3 month spell where we were almost unbeaten

 

that would surely show we were headed in the right direction and people would be feeling optimistic about the next season?

 

What happened at the start wasn't by chance, we genuinely looked a team

 

Yes, he would have turned relegation form into 6th in the league that still wouldn’t be good enough.  The start of the season we did look like a good team definitely, since January we have been clueless, devoid of any ideas and play as individuals. 

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Haken
1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I wouldn't. It would be a game changer for this team to beat Septic.

Hmm, interesting point.  Finally beating Celtic in Glasgow in a game of the utmost importance would certainly put a few ghosts to rest.  Would he be able to use such a result as a means of spurring the team on for next season?

 

 

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Absolute Scenes
10 minutes ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

Yes, he would have turned relegation form into 6th in the league that still wouldn’t be good enough.  The start of the season we did look like a good team definitely, since January we have been clueless, devoid of any ideas and play as individuals. 

 

Agreed!

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Forever Hearts
1 hour ago, Absolute Scenes said:

 

idiotic to call for a manager who beats the champions in a cup final to be sacked

 

Truly idiotic

Nonsense. Yes, it would be amazing to win the cup but it would only be papering over the cracks of a truly abysmal season. Let's not kid ourselves. 

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Absolute Scenes
1 minute ago, Forever Hearts said:

Nonsense. Yes, it would be amazing to win the cup but it would only be papering over the cracks of a truly abysmal season. Let's not kid ourselves. 

 

Despite how you feel about Levein, us winning the cup would mark this season to be an overall successful one - winning silverware over league position any day of the week

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Des Lynam
37 minutes ago, The Mercer Takeover said:

 

 

I would actually replace him before the final, to give us that extra edge that teams get with a new manager bounce.    

 

  

 

For a one off cup game? 

 

:cornette:

 

If the players can’t get up for a cup final then it doesn’t matter who the manager is. 

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jock _turd
1 hour ago, davemclaren said:

It would be interesting if the season had happened in reverse with very poor results the first five months but excellent results in the last four. Timing is everything when it comes to perception. 

 

Well Dave there is a certain amount of truth in what you are suggesting but there is a huge caveat too. If we had started the season in the way we had finished then I am absolutely certain CL would not be at the club now. Then there is another way of looking at it if we had finished as we started but started as we finished we would probably have been fighting relegation and had to make that finish to stay in the SPL. Of course the ideal is playing the entire season as we started it 😄

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Inch Hearts
13 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

Nonsense. Yes, it would be amazing to win the cup but it would only be papering over the cracks of a truly abysmal season. Let's not kid ourselves. 

 

If we win the cup Levein deserve next season for his victory retirement tour without a doubt. 

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redjambo
18 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

Nonsense. Yes, it would be amazing to win the cup but it would only be papering over the cracks of a truly abysmal season. Let's not kid ourselves. 

 

It has not been a great season, but "truly abysmal"? :) You either have a very short memory or have a penchant for the dramatic.

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Agentjambo
16 minutes ago, Absolute Scenes said:

 

Despite how you feel about Levein, us winning the cup would mark this season to be an overall successful one - winning silverware over league position any day of the week

The league should be our bread and butter,a cup win a bonus.Regular qualification for Europe should be our target.

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davemclaren
6 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

The league should be our bread and butter,a cup win a bonus.Regular qualification for Europe should be our target.

If we win the cup we do qualify for Europe. 

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Agentjambo
2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

If we win the cup we do qualify for Europe. 

Of course but cant see us winning the Scottish every year...that's what I meant.

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davemclaren
3 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

Of course but cant see us winning the Scottish every year...that's what I meant.

If would be great but I agree. 😄

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Hercules
2 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

"Get a grip of yourself". :D

 

A fanboy? No, I think he isn't up to the job, I think we need a change. However, he isn't a "clown", let alone an egotistical one, and anyone calling him that or likewise is not a long-term Hearts supporter. You are either a young lad in his teens, reasonably new to Hearts, or you are a Hobo. You stick out like a sore thumb. I can't honestly understand how people get their jollies from going on other team's forums and posting like you do, but there you go, it takes all sorts. Perhaps you might consider doing something more constructive with your life?

😂😂. Don’t fit the JKB criteria so must be a spoonburner. Brilliant. I’m an old man who has become extremely twisted and bitter about what’s going on at my club. As you and your cohorts might have noticed, I’m only venting about Levein. It’s the rest of you that are having a pop. Maybe have a wee look at yourselves maybe ? You upset one in a response and the “squad” comes out fighting 😂

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ToqueJambo
2 hours ago, The Mercer Takeover said:

 

When teams have significant changes in personnel at the start of the season or are just recently promoted, you often see them doing well for a quarter of the season, as the other teams in the league work out what is required to beat them. We also had the likes of Uche for other clubs to come to terms with. Levein himself even highlighted this himself earlier in the season.

 

Injuries didn't help but almost right on cue after the first quarter of games, our form collapsed and has been nothing short of woeful ever since.

 

We have been astonishingly lucky with the SC and hopefully this continues for one more game but action is required.

 

Can you replace a manager if he wins a cup, a few have said. You are damn right you can, he is well passed his sell by date and we need a new direction!

 

I would actually replace him before the final, to give us that extra edge that teams get with a new manager bounce.    

 

  

 

What manager would take a job with a club that sack their manager a week before a cup final?

 

Only the mad, desperate or Billy Davis.

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Cruickshank for Scotland
4 hours ago, Absolute Scenes said:

 

Are you judging a player after 5 appearances?

 

3 of which have been sub appearances?

 

No I am judging him on the fact he has been totally excluded from the team despite our desperation for striker options!!!

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Taffin

Form in parts of the season is irrelevant. The league season is 38 games. And it is over 38 games the success of a season should be judged.

 

Wins then losses, losses then wins, a mix throughout...it makes no difference. Where you finish is what defines success.

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SuperstarSteve
3 hours ago, Forever Hearts said:

The cheek of us wanting to finish above Aberdeen, Hibs and Killie while watching some entertaining football. Not to mention how nice it would be if our manager stopped spending serious amounts of money on absolute dross. 

Nothing wrong way wanting to finish above that mob and Aberdeen. 

we built a core at the start of season, we will add to it this window while

getting rid of the rubbish. 

 

We will be in a much better position to finish above said clubs next season. 

We wont compete with rangers or Celtic for 1st or 2nd in my opinion though. It'll be a 2 team league for a long time now. 

 

 

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Pasquale for King
3 minutes ago, SuperstarSteve said:

Nothing wrong way wanting to finish above that mob and Aberdeen. 

we built a core at the start of season, we will add to it this window while

getting rid of the rubbish. 

 

We will be in a much better position to finish above said clubs next season. 

We wont compete with rangers or Celtic for 1st or 2nd in my opinion though. It'll be a 2 team league for a long time now. 

 

 

What rubbish will get rid of and who signed them?

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SuperstarSteve
2 hours ago, Boab said:

 

My personal opinion is it would be amazing if we won the Cup. If CL, then, decided to hand over the reins, I think it would be perfect for all. He leaves on a high and a new coach is appointed to take the team in a new direction. It’s not a call for him to go as such, more a sensible decision to rally the troops.

That’s more of a wish than an opinion though, as, talking reality, I don’t think the structure of how we are managed will change next season...regardless of how we fare a week on Saturday.

If that is the case, this will rumble on and that is a real worry because any slip up will be pounced on. 

Well said and if a sensible appointment is waiting in the wings I have no problem whatsoever with levein handing over the reigns. 

I,  much like yourself don't see that being the case. 

 

I think it'll be a worry either way, if levein stays then it'll be very much the same as the last few season and if new man comes in, he will want his players which means an overhaul and if unsuccessful (fails to reach semi/final/Europe) fans will again call for his head. 

That cycle just cannot continue. We will never be a success if that's the case.  

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Pasquale for King
2 hours ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

Yes, he would have turned relegation form into 6th in the league that still wouldn’t be good enough.  The start of the season we did look like a good team definitely, since January we have been clueless, devoid of any ideas and play as individuals. 

Since Naismith was injured at Dundee, when he was left on at 3 nil up and then allowed to play on after getting injured

(after playing 180 minutes for Scotland 90 of which was a friendly whilst OF players were rested).

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SuperstarSteve
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

What rubbish will get rid of and who signed them?

For me the rubbish would be 

vanaceck (free) 

Doyle 

hughes

edwards 

martin - if possible 

djoum? Although a rate him it's a waiting game. 

Possible a few younger ones who we don't think will make the grade. 

 

Levein signed them which isn"t a sacking offence for me. Purely because it happens at every club everywhere. Some players signed are no up to it. 

 

 The core of this team is capable of much more (in the league) next season guys like naisy, haring, uche, smith, Berra, souttar, Clare and djoum if he stays (who understandably some don't rate) 

Can give a solid push for 3rd especially if we add the extra quality needed and injury free.

Wether walker (if signed) and halkett can do a job is yet to be seen.

 

 

Edited by SuperstarSteve

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Maple Leaf
4 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I wouldn't. It would be a game changer for this team to beat Septic.

 

I agree.

 

Trophies are few and far between at Hearts. If we beat the heavy favourites to win the cup, it would be a remarkable achievement.

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redjambo
30 minutes ago, Hercules said:

😂😂. Don’t fit the JKB criteria so must be a spoonburner. Brilliant. I’m an old man who has become extremely twisted and bitter about what’s going on at my club. As you and your cohorts might have noticed, I’m only venting about Levein. It’s the rest of you that are having a pop. Maybe have a wee look at yourselves maybe ? You upset one in a response and the “squad” comes out fighting 😂

 

"squad". So a paranoid old man too. 😉

 

Any comments I write are mine alone. The "squad" is just evidence that multiple people have different viewpoints to your own - yes, that can happen. Or is only one person allowed to argue for or against a particular topic?

 

Levein will probably be gone soon enough anyway. If you're an old man, and have supported Hearts for a long time, your "extremely twisted and bitter" nature is quite surprising. We've been through much poorer patches than this, or have you forgotten that?

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Pasquale for King
Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, SuperstarSteve said:

For me the rubbish would be 

vanaceck (free) 

Doyle 

hughes

edwards 

martin - if possible 

djoum? Although a rate him it's a waiting game. 

Possible a few younger ones who we don't think will make the grade. 

 

Levein signed them which isn"t a sacking offence for me. Purely because it happens at every club everywhere. Some players signed are no up to it. 

 

 The core of this team is capable of much more (in the league) next season guys like naisy, haring, uche, smith, Berra, souttar, Clare and djoum if he stays (who understandably some don't rate) 

Can give a solid push for 3rd especially if we add the extra quality needed and injury free.

Wether walker (if signed) and halkett can do a job is yet to be seen.

 

 

Souttar might leave this summer too, Djoum I would think will have better offers and won’t be easily replaced imo. The problem I have is trusting CL to not only get the right guys in and then utilise them properly. A lot of that core have been fit since January and we are in relegation form. Also if he is still in charge season ticket sales will inevitably fall, a miraculous cup win would help obviously.

Sammon will also be off the wage bill which will help. I don’t think Vanacek is rubbish, hard to tell in 5 games, he’s just more suited to balls into his feet not head height and fighting with CHs (you have to ask why he was signed). If a new man comes in he has the core of a decent squad and will need to adapt to it as many others do, not every clubs at our level signs 113 players in 5 years.

Edited by Pasquale for King

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Pasquale for King
25 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

"squad". So a paranoid old man too. 😉

 

Any comments I write are mine alone. The "squad" is just evidence that multiple people have different viewpoints to your own - yes, that can happen. Or is only one person allowed to argue for or against a particular topic?

 

Levein will probably be gone soon enough anyway. If you're an old man, and have supported Hearts for a long time, your "extremely twisted and bitter" nature is quite surprising. We've been through much poorer patches than this, or have you forgotten that?

I think watching Hearts for any length of time is likely to turn anyone into a bitter and twisted old man, or is just me 🤷🏾‍♂️?

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Cruyff Turn
53 minutes ago, Taffin said:

Form in parts of the season is irrelevant. The league season is 38 games. And it is over 38 games the success of a season should be judged.

 

Wins then losses, losses then wins, a mix throughout...it makes no difference. Where you finish is what defines success.

Not just over 1 season either. I think supporters have given it plenty of time. Over 80 games and probably 90% of those games we’ve been horseshite. 

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Forever Hearts
2 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

It has not been a great season, but "truly abysmal"? :) You either have a very short memory or have a penchant for the dramatic.

Yip. Bar the opening 10 games and a very fortunate cup draw the season has been abysmal. The amount of fans that stayed for the lap of 'honour' a few weeks ago said it all. 

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redjambo
1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think watching Hearts for any length of time is likely to turn anyone into a bitter and twisted old man, or is just me 🤷🏾‍♂️?

 

Au contraire. Watching Hearts for a long time makes you realise that we have ups and downs, and it is supporting Hearts itself, and being part of the Hearts family, that is the key and far more important than any bad run we are going through. It gives you perspective, and helps you not to be bitter and twisted.

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redjambo
4 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

Yip. Bar the opening 10 games and a very fortunate cup draw the season has been abysmal. The amount of fans that stayed for the lap of 'honour' a few weeks ago said it all. 

 

We have different interpretations of the term "abysmal" then. I personally would say "disappointing". And, as people have probably pointed out, you can only beat whomever is placed before you on the field, so you can't beat the club with the "fortunate cup draw" stick. You'll have to find another stick to beat us with, but I'm sure that won't be a problem for you.

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Taffin
1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

We have different interpretations of the term "abysmal" then. I personally would say "disappointing". And, as people have probably pointed out, you can only beat whomever is placed before you on the field, so you can't beat the club with the "fortunate cup draw" stick. You'll have to find another stick to beat us with, but I'm sure that won't be a problem for you.

 

They mean quite different things. I'd say this season has been disappointing too, but it's been disappointing because it's been absymal

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Vlad Magic
6 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

Yip. Bar the opening 10 games and a very fortunate cup draw the season has been abysmal. The amount of fans that stayed for the lap of 'honour' a few weeks ago said it all. 

 

It did. Disappointed fans is not a phenomenon reserved only for Hearts fans. It’s not been abysmal though as we are in the SC final. Abysmal would be not in the final and relegated.

 

learn the difference 👍

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Forever Hearts
Just now, redjambo said:

 

We have different interpretations of the term "abysmal" then. I personally would say "disappointing". And, as people have probably pointed out, you can only beat whomever is placed before you on the field, so you can't beat the club with the "fortunate cup draw" stick. You'll have to find another stick to beat us with, but I'm sure that won't be a problem for you.

Pity we couldn't beat the bottom six clubs when they were placed in front of us nine times. I don't need to look far for a stick and I take no pleasure from it, believe me. But the football has been horrific. 

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Forever Hearts
3 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

 

It did. Disappointed fans is not a phenomenon reserved only for Hearts fans. It’s not been abysmal though as we are in the SC final. Abysmal would be not in the final and relegated.

 

learn the difference 👍

Nah, I do know the difference and it's been abysmal. 👍

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redjambo
2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

They mean quite different things. I'd say this season has been disappointing too, but it's been disappointing because it's been absymal

 

:D

 

All depends on meaning. By "disappointing", I mean that we certainly haven't played as well as we should have done but, more than that, haven't appeared to have been moving forward. In other words, I can't even see any light at the end of the tunnel at the moment. Abysmal though? Except for some specific games, no, just "not good enough".

 

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jambobob61
1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

:D

 

All depends on meaning. By "disappointing", I mean that we certainly haven't played as well as we should have done but, more than that, haven't appeared to have been moving forward. In other words, I can't even see any light at the end of the tunnel at the moment. Abysmal though? Except for some specific games, no, just "not good enough".

 

 

No tunnel mate, a brick wall!

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Vlad Magic
1 minute ago, Forever Hearts said:

Nah, I do know the difference and it's been abysmal. 👍

 

Our injury list this year has been abysmal.

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redjambo
3 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

Pity we couldn't beat the bottom six clubs when they were placed in front of us nine times. I don't need to look far for a stick and I take no pleasure from it, believe me. But the football has been horrific. 

 

Well here's hoping we can sort things out, we can agree about that.

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redjambo
1 minute ago, jambobob61 said:

 

No tunnel mate, a brick wall!

 

:D So that's why I can't see the light.

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Hercules
53 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

"squad". So a paranoid old man too. 😉

 

Any comments I write are mine alone. The "squad" is just evidence that multiple people have different viewpoints to your own - yes, that can happen. Or is only one person allowed to argue for or against a particular topic?

 

Levein will probably be gone soon enough anyway. If you're an old man, and have supported Hearts for a long time, your "extremely twisted and bitter" nature is quite surprising. We've been through much poorer patches than this, or have you forgotten that?

Not at the age that I’ve forgotten stuff but I’ve found the current situation brutal. I’m completely consumed with bitterness about Levein. Not a good thing I know. Travel home and away every week and it’s as bad as it’s been. He should’ve done the honorable thing by now. 

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Forever Hearts
18 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

 

Our injury list this year has been abysmal.

HOUSE! You're todays winner of 'Excuse Bingo'. Pick a prize!

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Forever Hearts
18 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Well here's hoping we can sort things out, we can agree about that.

Absolutely. I just hope the job of sorting things out isn't entrusted to Craig Levein. 

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redjambo
2 minutes ago, Hercules said:

Not at the age that I’ve forgotten stuff but I’ve found the current situation brutal. I’m completely consumed with bitterness about Levein. Not a good thing I know. Travel home and away every week and it’s as bad as it’s been. He should’ve done the honorable thing by now. 

 

I don't know how Craig's mind works at all, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he doesn't want to relinquish the manager's spot because he feels that he would be letting the side down if he did, that the honourable choice is in fact to stay and sort it out. Also, he probably feels that with a fresh season, non-blighted by injuries, he might be able to turn our fortunes around. He's just human. After the cup final is out of the way (with a sneaky win for us, hopefully ;)), I hope he stands back and considers what is best for the club. If he realistically can't bring anything fresh to the table, that will produce a marked improvement in our play, then he needs to stand down and we need to get someone in who will give us a chance of doing so. Remember though that a change in management will not necessarily produce the improvement we want to see - unless we get in an internationally-acclaimed coach, which we can't afford to do, it will always be a gamble.

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