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Levein’s time is up...


Heartsofgold

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1 hour ago, Vlad Magic said:

 

Evidence of this please?

 

It's here, there and everywhere, Vlad. Particularly on this thread. 

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2 hours ago, To Be Frank said:

 

That’s just not true. Can’t speak for others but I reached a point towards end of last season where I was edging towards wanting Levein gone. I also said just the other day that with his record Levein could easily have and possibly should have gone. I’ve read plenty of others who would be classed as “Levein devotees” being critical as well. 

 

The flip side is there are some people who refuse to give him a single iota of credit due to their hatred. They’ve been screaming for a change of style and approach and on Friday they got it. Two wingers, two strikers and an attacking midfielder who pressed the opposition and showed some good interplay. Still they came on here and refused to acknowledge that. One even tried to say Mulraney was anonymous! 🙈 They are quite rightly the laughing stock of the board.

 

 

Understand what you’re saying now 👍🏻

 

I wish posters would stop using this terminology. As I have posted many times on here before I am no lover of CL and his tactics but I do see a number of things that he has done with the club where he desreves credit.

 

I don't  like a lot of his signings and the way he wants to play the game tactically however I don't hate him. As a Heart fan first and doremost I want what is best for Hearts and to see us progressing as far as we possibly can if Craig Levein turns us into that then I will be delighted it doesn't mean I will be fawning all over him and equally if he fails I won't hate him.

 

On the credit side to CL I do think that Jake Mulraney is proving to be a good player for us and he was obviously one of his gambles and it looks as if it is paying off.

 

The guy is improving all the time and he must be gaining in confidence with every game so well done to both of them and long may his improvemnt continue.

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2 hours ago, To Be Frank said:

 

That’s just not true. Can’t speak for others but I reached a point towards end of last season where I was edging towards wanting Levein gone. I also said just the other day that with his record Levein could easily have and possibly should have gone. I’ve read plenty of others who would be classed as “Levein devotees” being critical as well. 

 

The flip side is there are some people who refuse to give him a single iota of credit due to their hatred. They’ve been screaming for a change of style and approach and on Friday they got it. Two wingers, two strikers and an attacking midfielder who pressed the opposition and showed some good interplay. Still they came on here and refused to acknowledge that. One even tried to say Mulraney was anonymous! 🙈 They are quite rightly the laughing stock of the board. 

 

 

Understand what you’re saying now 👍🏻

 

If indeed they did get it, it was just one game and we still didn't actually win. Not disputing that we attacked with intent, particularly in the first half, but that alone doesn't make posters wrong about their lack of belief in Levein and it certainly doesn't make them a laughing stock. 

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1 hour ago, Prof said:

Couldn’t agree more. Any criticism of CL and how Hearts play seems to be taken as a personal insult by a good few. 

 

By far the best response of the four I got. 😁

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The Real Maroonblood
1 minute ago, Leveins Battalion said:

Surely time to close this thread?:berra:

:cornette_dog:

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Alex Kintner
20 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

I wish posters would stop using this terminology. As I have posted many times on here before I am no lover of CL and his tactics but I do see a number of things that he has done with the club where he desreves credit.

 

I don't  like a lot of his signings and the way he wants to play the game tactically however I don't hate him. As a Heart fan first and doremost I want what is best for Hearts and to see us progressing as far as we possibly can if Craig Levein turns us into that then I will be delighted it doesn't mean I will be fawning all over him and equally if he fails I won't hate him.

 

On the credit side to CL I do think that Jake Mulraney is proving to be a good player for us and he was obviously one of his gambles and it looks as if it is paying off.

 

The guy is improving all the time and he must be gaining in confidence with every game so well done to both of them and long may his improvemnt continue.

 

Wanting us to lose matches suggests hatred 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

15 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

If indeed they did get it, it was just one game and we still didn't actually win. Not disputing that we attacked with intent, particularly in the first half, but that alone doesn't make posters wrong about their lack of belief in Levein and it certainly doesn't make them a laughing stock. 

 

The posts from some on here after the game absolutely made them

look like a laughing stock, especially the one who suggested Mulraney was anonymous and the other who said it was a boring and predictable performance like last season.

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3 hours ago, martoon said:

 

Cuts both ways, bud. 

 

The Levein devotees are ridiculously blinkered. So much so, they can't see it. 

 

Poor performances and results are vigorously defended and explained away without even a hint of objectivity or concession that everything is not wonderful. 

 

They are also much swifter to resort to personal insults to discredit and belittle anyone who dares to disagree with them. 

 

Nah. A couple of the most positive posters on this thread, To be Frank and Icon of symmetry, for example (sure both have already posted on the thread) are far more objective than those I mentioned. In fact, with regards some, they are absolutely nowhere to be seen after a good result or positive news and only surface on a ‘bad news day’.

 

I probably shouldn’t have mentioned TBF and IOS directly tbh, was only done so to make a point. :peace:

 

Edited by Whatever
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3 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

Surely time to close this thread?:berra:

 

Change the title would be a better idea.

 

 

"Levein is not going anytime soon"

 

Something like that perhaps.

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Bridge of Djoum
13 hours ago, Whatever said:

The last 6 hours on this thread have merely shown that reasoned debate on JKB amongst certain posters is dead. 

 

Enzo, Mitch, Winston Churchill et all are so entrenched in their opinion on Levein they are unable to see any positives in the game V Utd.

 

15 shots at goal - all we did is pass sideways and back? :rofl:

 

A complete and utter waste of time being subjected to reading such nonsense, far less entering into debate with them.

 

 

You should read their contributions over on the other Hearts forum. If you think they are bad here....

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27 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Wanting us to lose matches suggests hatred 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

 

The posts from some on here after the game absolutely made them

look like a laughing stock, especially the one who suggested Mulraney was anonymous and the other who said it was a boring and predictable performance like last season.

 

26 minutes ago, Whatever said:

 

Nah. A couple of the most positive posters on this thread, To be Frank and Icon of symmetry, for example (sure both have already posted on the thread) are far more objective than those I mentioned. In fact, with regards some, they are absolutely nowhere to be seen after a good result or positive news and only surface on a ‘bad news day’.

 

I probably shouldn’t have mentioned TBF and IOS directly tbh, was only done so to make a point. :peace:

 

 

Fair enough, lads. I can't read every post, obviously. I do post criticisms of Levein but rarely without adding "I hope I'm proved wrong" or similar at the end. And I do. Genuinely hope the pro-Levein punters are right and that HMFC are on the way to cracking days.

 

Thanks to all for the courteous replies. :)

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19 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

 

Fair enough, lads. I can't read every post, obviously. I do post criticisms of Levein but rarely without adding "I hope I'm proved wrong" or similar at the end. And I do. Genuinely hope the pro-Levein punters are right and that HMFC are on the way to cracking days.

 

Thanks to all for the courteous replies. :)

 

👍🏻

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In truth there were plenty of posters (usually reasonable!) who thought we could and should have got rid of Levein at the end of the season, solely judged on the first team. However, there is an acknowledgement and real respect for the work put into football infrastructure and in the end an acceptance that it's only fair he sees his contract out as manager. 

What this means though is tangible progress in the first team, style and league position/acceptable cup progress (beating teams outside of Celtic and Rangers), with the decision to at least remove him from first team duties when his contract expires if this is not achieved. I am out of the country atm so I didn't see the game on Friday night but was okay with getting more points than United as that is all that mattered right now. 

It's about the whole season, not a run of games and certainly not excusing everything because one key player is injured. If it is failing then what I don't want is a panic replacement manager, let Levein see out the season and get the right person in and give him permission to clear the coaching decks if that is what they want. 

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2 hours ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Wanting us to lose matches suggests hatred 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

 

The posts from some on here after the game absolutely made them

look like a laughing stock, especially the one who suggested Mulraney was anonymous and the other who said it was a boring and predictable performance like last season.

 

If you are referring to me then you are absolutely wrong, I never want Hearts to lose a game and I don't hate Craig Levein.

 

People see different things in games it doesn't mean one if right or wrong. I happened to quite like Djoum as a player and yet lots of guys I know are glad he is gone.

 

It's just someone's opinion at the end of the day.

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Alex Kintner
1 minute ago, wavydavy said:

 

If you are referring to me then you are absolutely wrong, I never want Hearts to lose a game and I don't hate Craig Levein.

 

People see different things in games it doesn't mean one if right or wrong. I happened to quite like Djoum as a player and yet lots of guys I know are glad he is gone.

 

It's just someone's opinion at the end of the day.

 

Nah, not aware of you ever wanting us to lose a match or making either of those comments after Friday 👍🏻

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Just now, To Be Frank said:

 

Nah, not aware of you ever wanting us to lose a match or making either of those comments after Friday 👍🏻

 

What about before Friday?

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Alex Kintner
5 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

What about before Friday?

 

Would have been impossible for you to comment on Friday’s performance before Friday? 🤷🏻‍♂️

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3 hours ago, Leveins Battalion said:

Surely time to close this thread?:berra:

Lets see some evidence over the coming months before diving in there with drastic action. 

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Levein’s time was up a good few years ago. It seems only his loyalty to Hearts that is keeping him in a job. It’s certainly not by his management skills. A 1-1 draw at home against a Championship team seems to be regarded as progress by some. For me it’s another indication that we will have a new season like last season.  

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colinmaroon
35 minutes ago, Prof said:

Levein’s time was up a good few years ago. It seems only his loyalty to Hearts that is keeping him in a job. It’s certainly not by his management skills. A 1-1 draw at home against a Championship team seems to be regarded as progress by some. For me it’s another indication that we will have a new season like last season.  

 

 

Thank goodness your moniker is just a joke!

 

Try changing it to prophet - but beware false prophets get wellied!

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48 minutes ago, Prof said:

Levein’s time was up a good few years ago. It seems only his loyalty to Hearts that is keeping him in a job. It’s certainly not by his management skills. A 1-1 draw at home against a Championship team seems to be regarded as progress by some. For me it’s another indication that we will have a new season like last season.  

You have posted about 6000 times since Friday and every post is the exact same. So how about telling us all what you saw from the game on Friday , individually as a team and also about Dundee United and the perceived quality of their squad in comparison to the bottom 6 in the Premiership and how Hibs , Killie , Aberdeen will perform this season based on their performances and results over the last 5days or so? 💁🏻‍♂️

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Bazzas right boot

Oh good, this thread is still going. 

 

I like how it gets bumped every time we concede a goal.. Or a corner. 

 

 

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Alex Kintner
1 hour ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Was plenty positives in games against inverness and dundee United 

 

Absolutely. Some just can’t bring themselves to admit it 👍🏻

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1 hour ago, colinmaroon said:

 

 

Thank goodness your moniker is just a joke!

 

Try changing it to prophet - but beware false prophets get wellied!

No it’s real. I am one of the few who can bring an accurate assessment of how Hearts play. It makes a change from the slavering adulation of all things CL.

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3 minutes ago, Prof said:

No it’s real. I am one of the few who can bring an accurate assessment of how Hearts play. It makes a change from the slavering adulation of all things CL.

Well so far the jury is out on if you can bring an accurate assessment. Once you reply to my post we will know won’t we. Slavering adulation of all things CL just shows how much you can’t be objective at all though. Basic common sense...

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Haringshairband

There's a very high walloper ratio on this forum. Give it a rest Levein is going nowhere this season.

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The Real Maroonblood
6 minutes ago, Haringshairband said:

There's a very high walloper ratio on this forum. Give it a rest Levein is going nowhere this season.

Don’t post on this thread and the ratio will come down.

:jj:

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Just now, Cade said:

Defence minded dinosaur pish right enough

Untitled.jpg

No point , when folk just troll and claim they know the truth and are objective but can’t even give a reasoned reply to a fair question. Mitch usually (last night aside) and Enzo have their opinions but at least debate them.

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Haringshairband
26 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Don’t post on this thread and the ratio will come down.

:jj:

:rofl:

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Alex Kintner
56 minutes ago, Prof said:

No it’s real. I am one of the few who can bring an accurate assessment of how Hearts play. It makes a change from the slavering adulation of all things CL.

 

You’re about as impartial as the jury in a mafia film. 👍🏻

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56 minutes ago, sadj said:

Well so far the jury is out on if you can bring an accurate assessment. Once you reply to my post we will know won’t we. Slavering adulation of all things CL just shows how much you can’t be objective at all though. Basic common sense...

Not aimed at you particularly Sadj but KB really is a shite hole these days... bitching at each other when we disagree with each other..

 

objective
/əbˈdʒɛktɪv/
adjective
 
(of a person or their judgement) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.
 
subjective
/səbˈdʒɛktɪv/
adjective
 
based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
 
forum
/ˈfɔːrəm/
noun
 
a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged
 
....is it not supposed to be all about opinions and debate on here ? Ffs
 
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2 minutes ago, Guffers said:

Not aimed at you particularly Sadj but KB really is a shite hole these days... bitching at each other when we disagree with each other..

 

objective
/əbˈdʒɛktɪv/
adjective
 
(of a person or their judgement) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.
 
subjective
/səbˈdʒɛktɪv/
adjective
 
based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
 
forum
/ˈfɔːrəm/
noun
 
a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged
 
....is it not supposed to be all about opinions and debate on here ? Ffs
 

Thats my point also though , you can’t claim to be objective if you have such strong feelings and make a comment as the poster did at the end of their post. 

 

Some people can debate some just shout louder when asked some scuttle off and avoid it then return with the same crap. 

 

I have given my reasons many times on subjects as to why I think there are positives or what i thought were the negatives and there is a good number of posters I don’t get on with opinion wise but we respect each others opinions. When you have someone who shouts and shouts but refuses to back it up it gets tedious. 

 

If the poster could actually give me a reasoned reply then you can bat it back and forth and reach that mutually respected position. Unfortunately it is severely lacking from some but I guess that is also indicative of society. As a poster pointed out yesterday if they were to just shout louder than anyone else in a pub then they would get a dig. Hence the use of a forum or social media to shout loudly instead 

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Pasquale for King
36 minutes ago, Cade said:

Defence minded dinosaur pish right enough

Untitled.jpg

6 shots on target against a championship side who sat back most of the game doesn’t make us Barca. We played some great stuff but we drew, we need to do some serious work on our play in the final third.

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Guest ToqueJambo
3 hours ago, Prof said:

Levein’s time was up a good few years ago. It seems only his loyalty to Hearts that is keeping him in a job. It’s certainly not by his management skills. A 1-1 draw at home against a Championship team seems to be regarded as progress by some. For me it’s another indication that we will have a new season like last season.  

 

The best unbeaten run outwith the OF,  leading the league for 13 weeks or so, a cup semi final and a cup final again? Sounds good to me! And as we're unlikely have so many injuries we could even do better!

 

In all seriousness I find myself posting in defence of Levein all the time, even though I'd have preferred Neilson to stay over him and appoint Freedman over him, plus he's not even in my top 5 favourite Hearts managers ever.

 

However, when the managers put forward by the Levein outers are of the level of Tommy Wright, Paul Heckingbottom, Alan Archibald, the new Killie guy, etc, I'm happy to stick with Levein and take this year to conduct a throrough search for the next manager (and/or assess the readiness of McPhee, Daly, Kirk and co) rather than ripping everything up after a draw with D Utd in July.

 

Also think Levein did enough with the team at the start of last season and in reaching cup final, and performing well in it, to deserve another crack this season - likely to be his last ever as a football manager.

Edited by ToqueJambo
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20 minutes ago, sadj said:

Thats my point also though , you can’t claim to be objective if you have such strong feelings and make a comment as the poster did at the end of their post. 

 

Some people can debate some just shout louder when asked some scuttle off and avoid it then return with the same crap. 

 

I have given my reasons many times on subjects as to why I think there are positives or what i thought were the negatives and there is a good number of posters I don’t get on with opinion wise but we respect each others opinions. When you have someone who shouts and shouts but refuses to back it up it gets tedious. 

 

If the poster could actually give me a reasoned reply then you can bat it back and forth and reach that mutually respected position. Unfortunately it is severely lacking from some but I guess that is also indicative of society. As a poster pointed out yesterday if they were to just shout louder than anyone else in a pub then they would get a dig. Hence the use of a forum or social media to shout loudly instead 

 

Agreed mate! (Realised after I posted that I was actually agreeing with you!)

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We passed the ball more on Friday which is a start however I think this just shows how bad we were for 5-6 months last season that this is seen as an improvement considering we didn’t win. First half I thought we were decent but tailed off as the 2nd half went on. We’re never going to be the SPFLs version of Pep’s Barca but if this passing style is to stay then I think we need to be ever braver on the ball in the final third.

 

I don’t really think it’s that ridiculous an idea for people to think Levein won’t take us any further. 

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Guest ToqueJambo
2 minutes ago, Ari Gold said:

We passed the ball more on Friday which is a start however I think this just shows how bad we were for 5-6 months last season that this is seen as an improvement considering we didn’t win. First half I thought we were decent but tailed off as the 2nd half went on. We’re never going to be the SPFLs version of Pep’s Barca but if this passing style is to stay then I think we need to be ever braver on the ball in the final third.

 

I don’t really think it’s that ridiculous an idea for people to think Levein won’t take us any further. 

 

It's also not ridiculous to think he could take us to a European spot this season minimum.

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3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It's also not ridiculous to think he could take us to a European spot this season minimum.

 

I wouldn’t say ridiculous but based on the previous 2 seasons I would say I’m not convinced. 

 

There are positives - Hickey, Irving, Smith, maybe McDonald and Cochrane, the improvement of Souttar over the last few years, Halkett should be a good signing, Smiths consistent form.

We had injuries last season to important players however we crumbled and finished 6th again. Levein said last season that he didn’t know how to set the team up without Uche, that’s unacceptable. We have a big squad at the moment so he has loads of options. I hope there’s an improvement.

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Guest ToqueJambo
6 minutes ago, Ari Gold said:

 

I wouldn’t say ridiculous but based on the previous 2 seasons I would say I’m not convinced. 

 

There are positives - Hickey, Irving, Smith, maybe McDonald and Cochrane, the improvement of Souttar over the last few years, Halkett should be a good signing, Smiths consistent form.

We had injuries last season to important players however we crumbled and finished 6th again. Levein said last season that he didn’t know how to set the team up without Uche, that’s unacceptable. We have a big squad at the moment so he has loads of options. I hope there’s an improvement.

 

We just need to win 3 or 4 more games to be competing for Europe, which we would have done last season without the injuries IMO. I'm very confident we'll be 4th minimum this season.

 

Killie are not going to be the force they were the last two years. Hibs are regressing season on season IMO, I see nothing in Heckingbottom to suggest he can succeed up here and nether do my Hibee mates. A team like Motherwell might be a surprise package as often happens. Aberdeen, annoyingly, look like they are going to continue spending money, so until our budget reaches their level 4th minimum is where we should be with a good expectation of challenging for 3rd. 

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6 hours ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Would have been impossible for you to comment on Friday’s performance before Friday? 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

I could have used predictive text.

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11 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

We just need to win 3 or 4 more games to be competing for Europe, which we would have done last season without the injuries IMO. I'm very confident we'll be 4th minimum this season.

 

Killie are not going to be the force they were the last two years. Hibs are regressing season on season IMO, I see nothing in Heckingbottom to suggest he can succeed up here and nether do my Hibee mates. A team like Motherwell might be a surprise package as often happens. Aberdeen, annoyingly, look like they are going to continue spending money, so until our budget reaches their level 4th minimum is where we should be with a good expectation of challenging for 3rd. 

 

Almost every team in the league could say if we win 4 more games we'd be X or Y. 

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OmiyaHearts

It's pretty clear from the noises early on in the stadium (particularly after the Utd goal) and on here, Levein will be getting very little leeway from a percentage of the support. Maybe rightfully so, based on last seasons run of league form. For me, the counter doesn't reset just because its a new season. You can't ignore the extremely poor form and concerning performances from last season, just because we've had a six week break of games.

 

I can't see him lasting the season, unless he really gets the team playing well and winning consistently. I don't think the team has the character to do enough to fend off the negativity from last season and I'm really concerned about the strength in centre midfield. A team is usually a reflection of the managers personality and I don't think they will be positive enough or win enough matches to keep Craig in a job. Any home defeat will be jumped on and the element who want him out, will make enough noise and get others on board to put pressure on the board to make a decision.

 

As I've said before, I think Hearts and Celtic will be looking for new managers over Xmas & New Year.

 

Of course, I hope I'm wrong about this and we have an exciting season ahead with at least a top 4 finish. 

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Guest ToqueJambo
9 hours ago, bistokid said:

 

Almost every team in the league could say if we win 4 more games we'd be X or Y. 

 

Not every team lost so many points through injuries last season though.

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davemclaren
8 hours ago, OmiyaHearts said:

It's pretty clear from the noises early on in the stadium (particularly after the Utd goal) and on here, Levein will be getting very little leeway from a percentage of the support. Maybe rightfully so, based on last seasons run of league form. For me, the counter doesn't reset just because its a new season. You can't ignore the extremely poor form and concerning performances from last season, just because we've had a six week break of games.

 

I can't see him lasting the season, unless he really gets the team playing well and winning consistently. I don't think the team has the character to do enough to fend off the negativity from last season and I'm really concerned about the strength in centre midfield. A team is usually a reflection of the managers personality and I don't think they will be positive enough or win enough matches to keep Craig in a job. Any home defeat will be jumped on and the element who want him out, will make enough noise and get others on board to put pressure on the board to make a decision.

 

As I've said before, I think Hearts and Celtic will be looking for new managers over Xmas & New Year.

 

Of course, I hope I'm wrong about this and we have an exciting season ahead with at least a top 4 finish. 

Unless we look like being bottom six Craig will be here for the season imo. 

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This must be the dullest thread on the internet!

 

win = Levein is great

 

lose = leveins time is up

 

Draw = a slagging match

 

I’d prefer the first option being a Hearts fan likesy!

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26 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Not every team lost so many points through injuries last season though.

That’s really not the whole story though is it ? 

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